discussion about the corners

[gkautz10]

ok i have noticed this since last year and it PISSES me off. now i admit i lack "coaching" knowledge when it comes to some aspects of football. but can someone explain to me why the corners give the receivers 10 yards of cushion when BJ Daniels 1 is a terrible down field passer and 2 had not thrown a completion more than 15 yards down the field? my thought on this is smack them in the mouth at the line and throw off their timing. most of those short passes are all based on timing and a 1-3 step drop by the qb. therefor if the route is delayed by 3 seconds that gives our d line more time to reach the qb. and when they ran the ball it was mostly off tackle which puts a lot of pressure on our olb to make open field tackles not to mention our corners trying to shed blocks to get to the back. just my thoughts and thought this might be an interesting debate and take some of the light off of BK and the pathetic loss.

 

[kmoose]

ok i have noticed this since last year and it PISSES me off. now i admit i lack "coaching" knowledge when it comes to some aspects of football. but can someone explain to me why the corners give the receivers 10 yards of cushion when BJ Daniels 1 is a terrible down field passer and 2 had not thrown a completion more than 15 yards down the field? my thought on this is smack them in the mouth at the line and throw off their timing. most of those short passes are all based on timing and a 1-3 step drop by the qb. therefor if the route is delayed by 3 seconds that gives our d line more time to reach the qb. and when they ran the ball it was mostly off tackle which puts a lot of pressure on our olb to make open field tackles not to mention our corners trying to shed blocks to get to the back. just my thoughts and thought this might be an interesting debate and take some of the light off of BK and the pathetic loss.

The two outside guys yesterday were both injured and did not play, last year. So Daniels' numbers from last year aren't really germaine to THIS year. I would assume that the two of them were fast enough that Diaco didn't want to risk one of them just running by one of our corners.

 

[gkautz10]

i am not talking about USF players. if diaco thinks that gray and blanton are not fast enough to play man on receivers, then they should not be playing!! i think they are fast enough. it shows me that diaco has 0 confidence in their abilities and thats sad.

 

[irish1958]

The two outside guys yesterday were both injured and did not play, last year. So Daniels' numbers from last year aren't really germaine to THIS year. I would assume that the two of them were fast enough that Diaco didn't want to risk one of them just running by one of our corners.

That's what safties are for.

 

[kmoose]

i am not talking about USF players. if diaco thinks that gray and blanton are not fast enough to play man on receivers, then they should not be playing!! i think they are fast enough. it shows me that diaco has 0 confidence in their abilities and thats sad.

Slow down there, turbo. You were the one who said that Daniels hadn't completed anything over 15 yards. You were talking about USF players.

There's more to playing corner than simply bump and run coverage. Despite what some people think, corners are often an important part of run defense. They have to be able to make a play on the ball in the air, as well. Simply running step for step with a receiver is not the sole criteria for who starts at corner.

 

[DillonHall]

ok i have noticed this since last year and it PISSES me off. now i admit i lack "coaching" knowledge when it comes to some aspects of football. but can someone explain to me why the corners give the receivers 10 yards of cushion when BJ Daniels 1 is a terrible down field passer and 2 had not thrown a completion more than 15 yards down the field? my thought on this is smack them in the mouth at the line and throw off their timing. most of those short passes are all based on timing and a 1-3 step drop by the qb. therefor if the route is delayed by 3 seconds that gives our d line more time to reach the qb. and when they ran the ball it was mostly off tackle which puts a lot of pressure on our olb to make open field tackles not to mention our corners trying to shed blocks to get to the back. just my thoughts and thought this might be an interesting debate and take some of the light off of BK and the pathetic loss.

Agree completely...at times, it looked like the corners didn't know where the first down marker was.

 

[kmoose]

That's what safties are for.

Only if you are playing a two deep coverage. And only if your safties are competent coverage guys.

 

[gkautz10]

Slow down there, turbo. You were the one who said that Daniels hadn't completed anything over 15 yards. You were talking about USF players.

There's more to playing corner than simply bump and run coverage. Despite what some people think, corners are often an important part of run defense. They have to be able to make a play on the ball in the air, as well. Simply running step for step with a receiver is not the sole criteria for who starts at corner.

1 my name is not turbo and 2 this is a friendly discussion so i was simply asking questions. the second poster sounded like he was confused as to what my question really was so i tried to sort it out by saying i was talking about blanton and gray not their receivers. as i mentioned earlier, i have never played corner and am not aware of all of their responsibilities. that said i see your point about being an important part of the run stop and i agree. but in response to that if you see a receiver running at you and trying to engage you isnt that a tell tale sign he isnt trying to catch a pass? and dillonhall i remember a 3rd and ten where they were playing 15 yards from the receiver? that seems so ignorant to me.

 

[NDIrishlover3]

It looked like we played cover three a lot which is the answer to your question because in cover three that's what the corners do. I know because my team plays almost solely cover 3

 

[gkautz10]

Only if you are playing a two deep coverage. And only if your safties are competent coverage guys.

and we do ala harrison and jamoris

 

[kmoose]

1 my name is not turbo and 2 this is a friendly discussion so i was simply asking questions. the second poster sounded like he was confused as to what my question really was so i tried to sort it out by saying i was talking about blanton and gray not their receivers. as i mentioned earlier, i have never played corner and am not aware of all of their responsibilities. that said i see your point about being an important part of the run stop and i agree. but in response to that if you see a receiver running at you and trying to engage you isnt that a tell tale sign he isnt trying to catch a pass? and dillonhall i remember a 3rd and ten where they were playing 15 yards from the receiver? that seems so ignorant to me.

I was that second poster, and my point was that Diaco may have felt like USF's wideouts were sufficiently fast enough that he needed to play his corners off, to keep the WRs from simply running by them. I'm not trying to be an a$$ about it, but it's pretty common for Corners to give a big cushion to really speedy receivers, unless you happen to have a Darelle Revis or Nnamdi Asomough as your corner.

 

[gkautz10]

It looked like we played cover three a lot which is the answer to your question because in cover three that's what the corners do. I know because my team plays almost solely cover 3

thank you exactly the response i was looking for. now my next question is, if the qb clearly cant throw the deep ball and they have been making a living with the short routes, why not switch. is this diacos inability to make in game adjustments cough Navy cough. and it looked like we got alot more pressure on the qb when we went to a 4-3. could we see a switch to come? i think that was also discussed in another thread.

 

[gkautz10]

I was that second poster, and my point was that Diaco may have felt like USF's wideouts were sufficiently fast enough that he needed to play his corners off, to keep the WRs from simply running by them. I'm not trying to be an a$$ about it, but it's pretty common for Corners to give a big cushion to really speedy receivers, unless you happen to have a Darelle Revis or Nnamdi Asomough as your corner.

understood, but USF receivers are not to the same par as USC and stanford and the likes so if they cant hang with them, then they wont be able to hang with anyone which is why i said they may not be the right fit for corner then.

 

[kmoose]

understood, but USF receivers are not to the same par as USC and stanford and the likes so if they cant hang with them, then they wont be able to hang with anyone which is why i said they may not be the right fit for corner then.

You do realize that USC, tOSU, Oklahoma, and Texas don't have a complete stranglehold on ALL of the talented kids, right? Remember Jerry Rice? He didn't go to USC or Oklahoma, and he was pretty good, right?

It's probably just as likely that Diaco was playing conservative last night, because he didn't yet know just how good the pass rush would be.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

I started calling for the db's to tighten and us to dial up more pressure in the 3rd quarter.

 

[gkautz10]

I started calling for the db's to tighten and us to dial up more pressure in the 3rd quarter.

i agree. once you realize there is no deep threat, you need to switch it up a bit. they do have a stranglehold on very quick and athletic kids tho. you can not tell me that this is the best receiving corp we see all year.

 

[kmoose]

i agree. once you realize there is no deep threat, you need to switch it up a bit. they do have a stranglehold on very quick and athletic kids tho. you can not tell me that this is the best receiving corp we see all year.

Of course not. But just because they aren't the best, that doesn't mean that they aren't a serious threat. Cierre Wood is far from the best tailback in the nation, but you can bet that teams will be paying a lot of attention to him this year, and doing some game planning to contain him.

 

[gkautz10]

Of course not. But just because they aren't the best, that doesn't mean that they aren't a serious threat. Cierre Wood is far from the best tailback in the nation, but you can bet that teams will be paying a lot of attention to him this year, and doing some game planning to contain him.

valid point.

 

[Buster Bluth]

hahaha turbo does need to slow down.

USF had speed, and you can't let big plays from that speed happen. Diaco has a lot of faith, and rightfully so, in his front seven.

Personally, I agree with you. But perhaps he couldn't afford to roll the dice in his opinion. Do you press on third and long, but then not have the safety help in the middle--where the easier throws are, and plus they can chase on scrambles.

Since the defense only gave up 254 yards, I think we can assume Diaco played things correctly. Michigan will have a tough job against this defense.

 

[gkautz10]

hahaha turbo does need to slow down.

USF had speed, and you can't let big plays from that speed happen. Diaco has a lot of faith, and rightfully so, in his front seven.

Personally, I agree with you. But perhaps he couldn't afford to roll the dice in his opinion. Do you press on third and long, but then not have the safety help in the middle--where the easier throws are, and plus they can chase on scrambles.

Since the defense only gave up 254 yards, I think we can assume Diaco played things correctly. Michigan will have a tough job against this defense.

since everyone insists on calling me turbo i may have to change my name. how do i do that?? and i also understand your points but i am still all for busting them in the mouth at the line. i feel that maybe diaco and i will disagree all year long. it is going to be a long process getting him to see my way.

 

[irishff1014]

Our biggest test against Michigan is going to be Denard he killed us last year. Hopefully coach D has a good game plan for him. But Flemming and Fox didn't play very well.

 

[ThePiombino]

Slow down there, turbo. You were the one who said that Daniels hadn't completed anything over 15 yards. You were talking about USF players.

There's more to playing corner than simply bump and run coverage. Despite what some people think, corners are often an important part of run defense. They have to be able to make a play on the ball in the air, as well. Simply running step for step with a receiver is not the sole criteria for who starts at corner.

This is true. You can't assist on run defense with your back to the ball.

 

[micks60]

i am not talking about USF players. if diaco thinks that gray and blanton are not fast enough to play man on receivers, then they should not be playing!! i think they are fast enough. it shows me that diaco has 0 confidence in their abilities and thats sad.

Had this discussion on another thread. It has nothing to do with them being fast enought to play man. It all has to do with what the concerns are for the down. If afraid of the run you do not come up and play man. Playing man against the run is a terrible idea.

The corners are huge run support in our d and against that type of offense. It was fun to watch the games their offense was playing depending on what coverages we were running. We did a better job disguising in the second half once we saw what they we were doing to us.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Defense is playing percentages; you don't stop every play. The idea is to stop every drive. Diaco and the team stopped every drive but one...sounds like a good day/plan to me.

If you are mainly concerned about a break-contain QB [Daniels], then you don't want your D-Backs in situations where, once he does break contain, their [now] extended coverage has put them in deep sh!t. Holtz realized that Diaco probably had to approach it this way, and went with a lot of two-man stacked quick outs. That puts a lot of burden on sure immediate tackling and occasional walloping by outside linebackers [which didn't happen much ---suggest directing any ire there]. It also puts a lot of burden on the QB to make a LOT of consecutive passes accurately --- something one would view a good defensive strategy if one watched the erratic Daniels last year.

Tough to me to jump on a Criticism Train against Diaco, when his D essentially stuffed USF thoroughly enough for us to easily win the game. USF's offense is not composed of bumbling incompetents. They are going to make some plays.

 

[irishtrinity]

i know man... michigan 2010 we used soft corners and they marched right up the field.. i hate watching that happen i did also happen in the usf game like 12 times...

 

[gkautz10]

i agree with most of your points about the run. i am not criticizing diaco i guess i have never actually seen our corners play man granted i do not look at them on every play. i guess my whole concern is on an obvious passing down ie 3rd and 10 why not play up and not give them a 15 yard cushion so when they catch it and run the get 7 yards before our corners are in any position to tackle. My roommate is a michigan fan and he said that denard hardly ran at all on saturday. with the switch to the pro style offense, hopefully we have a better time stopping denard this year.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Defense is playing percentages; you don't stop every play. The idea is to stop every drive. Diaco and the team stopped every drive but one...sounds like a good day/plan to me.

If you are mainly concerned about a break-contain QB [Daniels], then you don't want your D-Backs in situations where, once he does break contain, their [now] extended coverage has put them in deep sh!t. Holtz realized that Diaco probably had to approach it this way, and went with a lot of two-man stacked quick outs. That puts a lot of burden on sure immediate tackling and occasional walloping by outside linebackers [which didn't happen much ---suggest directing any ire there]. It also puts a lot of burden on the QB to make a LOT of consecutive passes accurately --- something one would view a good defensive strategy if one watched the erratic Daniels last year.

Tough to me to jump on a Criticism Train against Diaco, when his D essentially stuffed USF thoroughly enough for us to easily win the game. USF's offense is not composed of bumbling incompetents. They are going to make some plays.

^This.

Well put, OMM.

 

[DuffHouse12]

the speed of the USF receivers was a concern for sure, it was obvious. they dinked and dunked all the way down the field, then when they had to run to score they couldn't. 2nd half we pressed and there was no more dink and no more dunk. no points for them either. 1 TD on a pass at a LB in (near perfect) coverage. we out scored them 20-7 in the second half.

i thought corners would be an issue, but it didn't seem to be the athletes but the game plan in the first half.