Jay Paterno on paying players

[GO IRISH!!!]

I think some of you are trying to make this what it isn't...it's not a "job" is an audition for a job.

GO IRISH!!!- the argument of not paying players based on the benefits they receive through education and being a football player are very good reasons not to pay them. Let's not forget...its not the NCAA,Schools, Coaches fault if this kid decides he doesn't care about the education part. He doesn't take advantage of it?? Oh well. Don't come crying to me about not being compensated if you're flushing a 100k education down the toliet.

I am not arguing for or against paying the players. I just wanted to point out some of the inconsistencies in using that argument. The dollar amount of the education is thrown out there as a four year package, but it is often missed how many hours these athletes actually put in. Fans tend to see the athletes in practice videos, interviews, and in the games, but there is much, much more that goes in to it and the hours are incredible. There were times during my playing days in college where my mind and body were both about ready to shut down and I couldn't imagine how I could keep going.

I don't know what the answer is, but I am sure it exists at a much earlier point than whether or not they get paid in college. It probably needs to be addressed as early as 8th grade when these top tier blue chip prospects need to be ingrained with the thoughts that education is more important than the athletics. While I am at it, I will work on world peace.

 

[military_irish]

The way I see it, is if they are that eager to make money right out of highschool. Then go work for a place right out of highschool, anything. Especially if they come from a bad background, get any job, McDonalds, Burger King, a job in the mall whatever. If the players family needs that money that bad. Football is not something that is forced down anyones throat, it is a choice. Others may say, that is the key for them to get out of a bad situation, well then you know what you are getting into before you step foot on a college campus.

If they are a stud and from a bad background, then all they have to do is wait 3 years and they can jump to the NFL. When it comes to basketball they can go overseas or the D-League right out of highschool.

I wish I could get paid to go to school.....wait I do, nevermind...

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

I never said the solution was to throw money around, but they need to look at all of this again. The NFL and NCAA, this is about GREED, from all sides. Please get me some kind of playoff system.

 

[Rocket89]

Anyone think there needs to be some research done with how hockey leagues like the OHL work? Maybe some comparisons to that and how the NCAA could work a similar structured system of paying players?

For the record I'm against paying players, but it always seemed like the OHL is a good example to look at it. In most instances, the players are in school (high school) or get their college tuition paid for, receive cars, and are paid a little bit of money.

 

[Rocket89]

I never said the solution was to throw money around, but they need to look at all of this again. The NFL and NCAA, this is about GREED, from all sides. Please get me some kind of playoff system.

A playoff would bring in 3 or4 times as much money to the "greedy" system than right now. That's not going to help this argument out, from your stand point, right?

Playoff, or no playoff, shouldn't really be part of it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Anyone think there needs to be some research done with how hockey leagues like the OHL work? Maybe some comparisons to that and how the NCAA could work a similar structured system of paying players?

Yes!

For the record I'm against paying players, but it always seemed like the OHL is a good example to look at it. In most instances, the players are in school (high school) or get their college tuition paid for, receive cars, and are paid a little bit of money.

You played hockey, no? I smell a good OFD article (or is it a good SBNation article now?)

 

[irishpat183]

The way I see it, is if they are that eager to make money right out of highschool. Then go work for a place right out of highschool, anything. Especially if they come from a bad background, get any job, McDonalds, Burger King, a job in the mall whatever. If the players family needs that money that bad. Football is not something that is forced down anyones throat, it is a choice. Others may say, that is the key for them to get out of a bad situation, well then you know what you are getting into before you step foot on a college campus.
If they are a stud and from a bad background, then all they have to do is wait 3 years and they can jump to the NFL. When it comes to basketball they can go overseas or the D-League right out of highschool.

I wish I could get paid to go to school.....wait I do, nevermind...

Fantastic. You know what you sign up for. And if you don't, you shouldn't be going to college.

If they were soooooo worried about their family RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT...they'd get a job right at that moment.

 

[Rocket89]

Yes!



You played hockey, no? I smell a good OFD article (or is it a good SBNation article now?)

Yup, but I never played at the major junior level. Had some friends who did, so I know a little bit about the system. Just seems like such a good model to compare.

Yes, the cat is out of the bag now. SBN ya'll.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

A playoff would bring in 3 or4 times as much money to the "greedy" system than right now. That's not going to help this argument out, from your stand point, right?

Playoff, or no playoff, shouldn't really be part of it.

No i just threw that in, all i'm saying is some things need to be looked at. hardship cases are everywhere. just don't go to college, that's not the answer.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

Fantastic. You know what you sign up for. And if you don't, you shouldn't be going to college.

If they were soooooo worried about their family RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT...they'd get a job right at that moment.

i wish everything was so easy, you should be in government.

 

[pkt77242]

I will say that I don't agree with paying players but I think something needs to be done about games using their likeness (ea sports) and jersey sales. Maybe EA sports should have to set up a trust fund to be given to players at the time that their eligibility expires or maybe schools have to set up trust funds for players who jersey's they sell (say 10% of the price) that the athlete would recieve upon the expiration of their elgibility

 

[pkt77242]

Though maybe the EA sports thing wouldn't work. 120 teams with 70 players each and $1000 per player that would be 8.4 milliion. I am not sure they make that much of off the game.

 

[irishpat183]

i wish everything was so easy, you should be in government.

HAHHAHA!! I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[irishpat183]

I will say that I don't agree with paying players but I think something needs to be done about games using their likeness (ea sports) and jersey sales. Maybe EA sports should have to set up a trust fund to be given to players at the time that their eligibility expires or maybe schools have to set up trust funds for players who jersey's they sell (say 10% of the price) that the athlete would recieve upon the expiration of their elgibility

I like where you were going with this...but it could never work. Did the players help develop the games?? Because the players don't own the jerseys they wear, the school does. As far as using the likeness...that is an easy fix for EA.

 

[kmoose]

just don't go to college, that's not the answer.

The answer is really pretty easy:

Take the scholarship, go to college, and......................

play by the rules!!

BUT.....

IF that's what you decide to do, don't start whining about how you have been "enslaved", or how a bunch of old white men are getting rich off of you.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

The answer is really pretty easy:

Take the scholarship, go to college, and......................

play by the rules!!

BUT.....

IF that's what you decide to do, don't start whining about how you have been "enslaved", or how a bunch of old white men are getting rich off of you.

YES, play by the rules, no question, i get it. Things happen to these kids everyday of the week. once again, most of the kids do play by the rules, but don't tell me things don't need to looked at.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

YES, play by the rules, no question, i get it. Things happen to these kids everyday of the week. once again, most of the kids do play by the rules, but don't tell me things don't need to looked at.

Who are you arguing with? No one in this thread has defended the complexity of the NCAA rules.

Most of us seem to agree that student athletes are not being exploited, and that paying them would be a very bad idea.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

Who are you arguing with? No one in this thread has defended the complexity of the NCAA rules.

Most of us seem to agree that student athletes are not being exploited, and that paying them would be a very bad idea.

I know kmoose had a post for me.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Just trying to figure out if there's any actual disagreement here.

The last line of kmoose's post is:

IF that's what you decide to do, don't start whining about how you have been "enslaved", or how a bunch of old white men are getting rich off of you.

He's addressing the exploitation angle too. I don't think anyone disagrees with you that the rules are needlessly complex.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

I was just addressing the whole play by the rules comment. The thing about being enslaved, that's just taking it a couple steps to far.

 

[kmoose]

I know kmoose had a post for me.

Actually, my first thought, upon reading your last reply, was:

"I can absolutely agree that the current system is archaic, at best. However, what I cannot agree with, is the notion that "we"(the consumers of college football) should be moved to provide these kids with an easier lifestyle. If the system is changed to the point that the players are paid cash, isn't that just giving in to the idea that they are being exploited, and setting them even further down the path of "entitlement" that most people complain permeates the attitudes of many of today's college athletes?"

I'm only against blowing the current system up. I do think that someone much smarter than I needs to come up with a reasonably equitable idea for tweaking the current system. But I just can't endorse completely gutting the status quo. I'm not saying you are advocating that, just explaining why I'm against sweeping changes.

 

[IrishLax]

I just had about a 2 hour marathon debate on this over dinner. Interesting point for discussion:

Current NCAA system = extremely effective socialism.
Free market system = well... free market capitalism.

In our "socialist" scheme lacrosse players, softball players, golfers, etc. all get treated the same as basketball or football players even though they have inferior skills. To put it another way, woman's softball player has less desirable skills than a 5* football QB, but they both get the exact same benefits. This works best for "everyone" because something like 97% of athletes do not go pro... and only probably something near .01% of athletes (aka the Rivals 250 + about 150 basketball recruits out of ~400,000 student athletes) would get paid. So is it worth sacrificing the .01%'s chance to earn their market value to support the other 99.99%??? Most people would say yes. Hell, in today's society if you tried to say "in order for the top .01% to earn all that they deserve with their superior skills and talents, we're increasing the 'Bush tax cuts' by XX% so that everyone is taxed even" you would have anarchy. The system, where the super-talented have to proportionally give a little more to the system for the benefit of many, is quite "American" in this day and age.

So ask yourselves: is it worth completely screwing over a large portion of 400,000 people who would likely not have scholarships in a free market system in order for the .01% to "cash in" to their maximum amount? If not, is there a hybrid solution that will work?

PS. If you don't think athletic departments depend heavily on their revenue sports for sustainment... you should note that only something like 85% of Division 1A schools operate in the red under our current set of rules.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

Actually, my first thought, upon reading your last reply, was:

"I can absolutely agree that the current system is archaic, at best. However, what I cannot agree with, is the notion that "we"(the consumers of college football) should be moved to provide these kids with an easier lifestyle. If the system is changed to the point that the players are paid cash, isn't that just giving in to the idea that they are being exploited, and setting them even further down the path of "entitlement" that most people complain permeates the attitudes of many of today's college athletes?"

I'm only against blowing the current system up. I do think that someone much smarter than I needs to come up with a reasonably equitable idea for tweaking the current system. But I just can't endorse completely gutting the status quo. I'm not saying you are advocating that, just explaining why I'm against sweeping changes.

absolutely, tweaks NOT sweeping changes.

 

[IrishLax]

absolutely, tweaks NOT sweeping changes.

What tweaks? For the life of me my brain cannot come up with any tweaks where there are not huge loopholes.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Would rep, but your impressive posts have been coming too frequently these days. Well done.

It's ironic that American football employs one of the most socialist models in sports with the draft system, salary caps, revenue sharing, etc. whereas European "football" has produced what is arguably the most mercilessly capitalistic sports models in the world.

The result? The NFL is extremely competitive, with 7 different teams winning the Super Bowl in the last 10 years, while soccer is dominated by the same handful of clubs year after year.

 

[kmoose]

What tweaks? For the life of me my brain cannot come up with any tweaks where there are not huge loopholes.

The only way to enhance the college experience for athletes is allow them some type of benefits. The problem with that is.... if one school can offer better benefits, then it will theoretically snatch up all of the best recruits. No one else will be able to compete.

One tweak might be for Congress to pass legislation giving the NCAA limited "law enforcement" powers, i.e.: the right to subpoena financial records, and/or the right to question people under oath. The investigators could be highly regulated, to reasonably ensure that the NCAA is hiring qualified people. It would give the NCAA some real teeth to go after the cheaters with, and it makes a lot more sense than Congress dictating the terms of the BCS.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

The only way to enhance the college experience for athletes is allow them some type of benefits. The problem with that is.... if one school can offer better benefits, then it will theoretically snatch up all of the best recruits. No one else will be able to compete.

One tweak might be for Congress to pass legislation giving the NCAA limited "law enforcement" powers, i.e.: the right to subpoena financial records, and/or the right to question people under oath. The investigators could be highly regulated, to reasonably ensure that the NCAA is hiring qualified people. It would give the NCAA some real teeth to go after the cheaters with, and it makes a lot more sense than Congress dictating the terms of the BCS.

AGREED!

 

[irishpat183]

Would rep, but your impressive posts have been coming too frequently these days. Well done.

It's ironic that American football employs one of the most socialist models in sports with the draft system, salary caps, revenue sharing, etc. whereas European "football" has produced what is arguably the most mercilessly capitalistic sports models in the world.

The result? The NFL is extremely competitive, with 7 different teams winning the Super Bowl in the last 10 years, while soccer is dominated by the same handful of clubs year after year.

Yeah, it works in sports....not in real life. And now the NFL is in lockout because of that system. As will the NBA.

 

[irishpat183]

The only way to enhance the college experience for athletes is allow them some type of benefits. The problem with that is.... if one school can offer better benefits, then it will theoretically snatch up all of the best recruits. No one else will be able to compete.

One tweak might be for Congress to pass legislation giving the NCAA limited "law enforcement" powers, i.e.: the right to subpoena financial records, and/or the right to question people under oath. The investigators could be highly regulated, to reasonably ensure that the NCAA is hiring qualified people. It would give the NCAA some real teeth to go after the cheaters with, and it makes a lot more sense than Congress dictating the terms of the BCS.

Just what we need...government to get involved even more. Talk about a quick way to ruin college football.

And we're all forgetting that while we have these problems, College football is fantastic. And the cheaters do eventually get caught.

 

[kmoose]

Just what we need...government to get involved even more. Talk about a quick way to ruin college football.

And we're all forgetting that while we have these problems, College football is fantastic. And the cheaters do eventually get caught.

I don't really like the idea of government involvement, either. But, if you think about it......... we are on the cusp of that, anyway, with the BCS officials being summoned to explain their model to Congress. Rather than have Congress legislate how the BCS functions, I would rather see the government regulate NCAA investigators, much like they regulate regular law enforcement personnel: setting minimum requirements for employment, dictating continuing education, monitoring that employers have quality control programs in place, etc. I'm not advocating that Congress have any input into how the investigation is run, only that they establish a minimum set of professional standards for NCAA investigators. This would, hopefully, provide the NCAA with professional, knowledgeable, capable investigators. If Reggie Bush were facing jail time for perjury, right now, it would change the game for any kid who is currently taking improper benefits because all he has to do is keep from getting caught while he is in school.