Is the Big East Overrated?

[NeuteredDoomer]

No, not in "the East Coast media" usage in this thread. Media is the plural of medium. It can be used as a collective noun when describing a group of reporting agencies but not when only one entity, ESPN, is involved.

Go Rams!

ESPN is a group of reporting agencies. So is each announcer. They all have a team.

Language is not static. Medium is the single, but... who uses the word?

At this moment, alumnus, alumni, alumna and alumnae seem to be set.

Myself ain't gonna be seen type on this thread no more.

Just messin around...

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

ESPN isn't just one medium. It covers television, radio, internet, etc. ESPN is a media corporation.

Neutered-Now you know how I feel while I always post.....Wait that came out wrong....

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Yeah I know yada yada. I actually got slammed for knowing a word like "medium." Dude actually yelled at me when he walked in the room and screamed "So you think language is STATIC!?" I said "Calm down, I'll get off of your sister. I am using protection."

Please remove that pic.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Yeah I know yada yada. I actually got slammed for knowing a word like "medium." Dude actually yelled at me when he walked in the room and screamed "So you think language is STATIC!?" I said "Calm down, I'll get off of your sister. I am using protection."

Okay I got way too many lulz from this hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

What is "lulz?" Is that a new term? Shouldn't you just use the established English word?

 

[phork]

OV-ER RA-TED.

I cry now.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Top 8 Big East teams are out. Big East is way, way, way overrated. No way they should ever get more than 8 teams in again.

 

[dshans]

Look, a deer is in the field. He's peeing on dshans beard.

I can understand this. My lawn (what little is visible – after some encouraging snow melt in the last week) looks a lot like my beard.

I see the "their" vs "there" error so often I chalk it up to misspelling or alcohol haze.

The same goes for "there/their" vs "they're." An Old Fart Hippie can only take so much, though, so I occasionally chime in.

 

[military_irish]

Top 8 Big East teams are out. Big East is way, way, way overrated. No way they should ever get more than 8 teams in again.

thats a lie, upsets happen EVERY year, Purdue got beat this year, the best team in the nation last year, Kansas, got beat in the round of 32. UNC and Duke both barely escaped from bottom feeders. The tourney is only a small part of how a conference is "rated", in the tourney it all comes down to matchups. Upsets happen every year during the regular season but no one cares but if it happens during the tourney the conference is "overrated"?

People put way too much stock in the tourney, it is one and done so of course upsets will happen. But I will definitely give FSU praise, they had a great D. They deserved to win.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class="oddrow team-23-194"><TD>1</TD><TD>Ohio State (51) </TD><TD align=middle>32-2</TD><TD align=middle>1,611</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-2305"><TD>2</TD><TD>Kansas (14) </TD><TD align=middle>32-2</TD><TD align=middle>1,574</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-150"><TD>3</TD><TD>Duke</TD><TD align=middle>30-4</TD><TD align=middle>1,472</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-221"><TD>4</TD><TD>Pittsburgh</TD><TD align=middle>27-5</TD><TD align=middle>1,406</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-87"><TD>5</TD><TD>Notre Dame</TD><TD align=middle>26-6</TD><TD align=middle>1,332</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-21"><TD>6</TD><TD>San Diego State</TD><TD align=middle>32-2</TD><TD align=middle>1,322</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-153"><TD>7</TD><TD>North Carolina</TD><TD align=middle>26-7</TD><TD align=middle>1,189</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-251"><TD>8</TD><TD>Texas</TD><TD align=middle>27-7</TD><TD align=middle>1,069</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-41"><TD>9</TD><TD>Connecticut</TD><TD align=middle>26-9</TD><TD align=middle>1,019</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-252"><TD>10</TD><TD>Brigham Young</TD><TD align=middle>30-4</TD><TD align=middle>977</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-96"><TD>11</TD><TD>Kentucky</TD><TD align=middle>25-8</TD><TD align=middle>928</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-183"><TD>12</TD><TD>Syracuse</TD><TD align=middle>26-7</TD><TD align=middle>922</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-2509"><TD>13</TD><TD>Purdue</TD><TD align=middle>25-7</TD><TD align=middle>903</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-97"><TD>14</TD><TD>Louisville</TD><TD align=middle>25-9</TD><TD align=middle>874</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-57"><TD>15</TD><TD>Florida</TD><TD align=middle>26-7</TD><TD align=middle>840</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-275"><TD>16</TD><TD>Wisconsin</TD><TD align=middle>23-8</TD><TD align=middle>619</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-12"><TD>17</TD><TD>Arizona</TD><TD align=middle>27-7</TD><TD align=middle>516</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-2599"><TD>18</TD><TD>St. John's</TD><TD align=middle>21-11</TD><TD align=middle>433</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-328"><TD>19</TD><TD>Utah State</TD><TD align=middle>30-3</TD><TD align=middle>333</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-2752"><TD>20</TD><TD>Xavier</TD><TD align=middle>24-7</TD><TD align=middle>270</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-2306"><TD>21</TD><TD>Kansas State</TD><TD align=middle>22-10</TD><TD align=middle>240</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-277"><TD>22</TD><TD>West Virginia</TD><TD align=middle>20-11</TD><TD align=middle>178</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-264"><TD>23</TD><TD>Washington</TD><TD align=middle>23-10</TD><TD align=middle>176</TD></TR><TR class="evenrow team-23-245"><TD>24</TD><TD>Texas A&M</TD><TD align=middle>24-8</TD><TD align=middle>152</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow team-23-238"><TD>25</TD><TD>Vanderbilt</TD><TD align=middle>23-10</TD><TD align=middle>130</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

• Others receiving votes: Georgetown 129, Temple 124, Cincinnati 115, Old Dominion 65, Richmond 47, UNLV 38, Gonzaga 30, Butler 18, Villanova 17, Missouri 13, Belmont 13, George Mason 10, Memphis 7, Clemson 4, Colorado 3, Marquette 3, UCLA 3, Long Island 1

• Dropped from rankings: Georgetown 22, Temple 24, Cincinnati 25

These are the AP rankings prior to the start of the conference tournament. Every team on that list got into the tournament with the exception of Colorado. Marquette was the last Big East team in and now they are in the Sweet 16. People aregued they shouldnt have been in. All 11 BE tourney teams are listed above in the final standings and those receiving votes. The committe doesnt over-rate teams, they base it on regular season performance. These 11 teams are 121-17 in non-conference games.

Which Big East Teams are we removing out of the field? I mean top to bottom-- if you cant clearly see that they are the most loaded conference in the nation then you are just kidding yourself.

Teams get beat. Im not saying BE has the best teams or top 2 teams, but you stick Duke, Ohio State, NC, Kansas, Texas, Florida, BYU or another top tier team in the BE and I guarantee that their physical health, mental health, and win-loss record would suffer.

Pitt blows my mind that they played great in-conference and **** the bed once again. Everyone said that if ND had an off shooting night then they would be toast. L-ville just a victim of the standard "Are you kidding me?" upset. Cincy and Cuse were beaten by their own conference. WVU beaten by a team with better personnel and that was not an upset. St. Johns was victim of the hype and a key injury. G-town and Nova were fading due to injuries and had the season been another 2 weeks they prob wouldnt have gotten in but they picked up key wins early in the season.

So its UCONN and Marquette. Not who any of us expected being the only 2 teams still alive.

*Edit--It may make more sense to look at the the previous weeks rankings as these above rankings seem to follow the seedings. Not sure if that is coincidence or on purpose.

 

[NDOM]

YES..............the big east is overrated. Plain and simple.

 

[NCDomer]

Barkley made an astute point during the ND game. It's not that BE teams are bad, but rather they have limited talent. What makes BE teams so good is their coaching. Almost all BE teams play hard fundamental bball, but lack the high end talent that the tournament requires.

Teams need high end talent for those portions of the game when it starts to grind. At those times, teams that beat good teams tend to have a player or two who can make baskets. These tend to be future NBA lotto picks. How many are there in the BE? Kemba Walker is the main one with Marshon Brooks being the next one. Kris Joseph is another. This lack of high end talent on otherwise very solid teams leaves many BE teams packing early come March.

This is the general rule for Final Four teams. It's not always the case, but it can largely explain why BE teams tend to underperform in the tourney.

A perfect example etched in my memory of this concept is the George Mason vs. UF game a few years ago. GM was a scrappy, hard-playing, well coached team that seemed to will it to victory. However, when the game began to grind, UF dumped the ball down to Hortford who scored repeatedly. Each time UF did this you could see the clock inch closer to midnight and a pumpkin over the horizon. The GM players started to accept their fate as UF imposed their will, mainly by their best NBA talent--Hortford scoring at will.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Barkley made an astute point during the ND game. It's not that BE teams are bad, but rather they have limited talent. What makes BE teams so good is their coaching. Almost all BE teams play hard fundamental bball, but lack the high end talent that the tournament requires.

Teams need high end talent for those portions of the game when it starts to grind. At those times, teams that beat good teams tend to have a player or two who can make baskets. These tend to be future NBA lotto picks. How many are there in the BE? Kemba Walker is the main one with Marshon Brooks being the next one. Kris Joseph is another. This lack of high end talent on otherwise very solid teams leaves many BE teams packing early come March.

This is the general rule for Final Four teams. It's not always the case, but it can largely explain why BE teams tend to underperform in the tourney.

A perfect example etched in my memory of this concept is the George Mason vs. UF game a few years ago. GM was a scrappy, hard-playing, well coached team that seemed to will it to victory. However, when the game began to grind, UF dumped the ball down to Hortford who scored repeatedly. Each time UF did this you could see the clock inch closer to midnight and a pumpkin over the horizon. The GM players started to accept their fate as UF imposed their will, mainly by their best NBA talent--Hortford scoring at will.

You are exactly correct and so was Barkley. The big Est is full of great coaches and tough players, but not elite NBA type talent. This is why UCONN is still around and has a great shot to reach the final four. UCONN has Kemba Walker and Jeremy Lamb who is a future first round pick. Go UCONN!

 

[SLCIRISH]

The Big East has 2 great coaches and the rest are average.
Boheim/Calhoun= great
No other coaches really stands out, and to say the big east doesnt get the best talent is ridiculous. I would wager that out of the top 100 players the big east gets the most.

 

[SLCIRISH]

the problem with the big east is:
1) too many teams and too much competition, big east schools are wore out by this time.
2) the big east style of bball, doesnt fit tourney style, too many fouls, and not enough open court scoring.
3)teams are made of up of alot of under classmen, no senior leadership.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

The Big East has 2 great coaches and the rest are average.
Boheim/Calhoun= great
No other coaches really stands out, and to say the big east doesnt get the best talent is ridiculous. I would wager that out of the top 100 players the big east gets the most.

What? Really?

Last time I checked Rick Patino is a damn good coach. If he never left for the NBA and stayed at Kentucky he would be an all time great coach. Really Mr. Huggins isn't a good coach either? Come on man.

There is no way you could tell me any team in the Big East, except for UCONN, has the talent of a UNC, Kansas, Ohio State, Duke, Kentucky, Florida, or even Arizona with that Williams kid.

 

[SLCIRISH]

Rick Pitino= over rated
How many championships? Kentucky doesnt count, I could recruit kids there.
Huggins= over rated/ cheater.
Never won a big game.

It isnt that other conf get better players, the style of ball they play is different. And they are not wore down by constantly having to play a difficult, different opponent.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Rick Pitino= over rated
How many championships? Kentucky doesnt count, I could recruit kids there.
Huggins= over rated/ cheater.
Never won a big game.

It isnt that other conf get better players, the style of ball they play is different. And they are not wore down by constantly having to play a difficult, different opponent.

Ok name a player in the Big East, other than Kemba Walker and Lamb, who has NBA talent like the teams I mentioned ablove...

Secondly, Calapari hasn't won a championship at Kentucky, neither did the guy before him and Tubby Smith won the year after Patino left. Patino has won every where he has gone in college.

 

[SLCIRISH]

Look at the Ute teams from the late 90's, no way they should of beaten some of the teams they did in the tourney, but with their scheduling, and ability to work on their deficiencies, instead of having to prepare for top teams game after game, they were able to advance and mostly be fresh throughout their tourney runs.
It is "cool" to play the best teams, but in reality, it hurts teams, with a few exceptions.
The Big East is not over rated, the size and level of competition, in it, make it weak at the end of the season.
But that is just my opinion.

 

[SLCIRISH]

NBA talent doesnt = college/high school talent. The big east has alot of great NCAA basketball players.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

NBA talent doesnt = college/high school talent. The big east has alot of great NCAA basketball players.

This is true the Big East does have a lot of solid tough NCAA Basketball players, but in a one and done situation talent and athleticism tends to win out.

Example last nighs ND vs. FSU game. ND is probably the better basketball team, has more solid NCAA players and more experieince. FSU is bigger, longer and more athletic, with more NBA prospects. What happened last night? What happened to WVU against Kentucky...

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Look at the Ute teams from the late 90's, no way they should of beaten some of the teams they did in the tourney, but with their scheduling, and ability to work on their deficiencies, instead of having to prepare for top teams game after game, they were able to advance and mostly be fresh throughout their tourney runs.
It is "cool" to play the best teams, but in reality, it hurts teams, with a few exceptions.
The Big East is not over rated, the size and level of competition, in it, make it weak at the end of the season.
But that is just my opinion.

Note that you are leaving out the fact the Utes had NBA players on those teams. You are telling me having Andrea Miller isn't a factor? Andrea Miller was great at Utah and has had a good NBA career with All start game appearances. What about Keith Van Horn? He was a star. Not to mention Rick Majores is a great coach.

 

[SLCIRISH]

This is true the Big East does have a lot of solid tough NCAA Basketball players, but in a one and done situation talent and athleticism tends to win out.

Example last nighs ND vs. FSU game. ND is probably the better basketball team, has more solid NCAA players and more experieince. FSU is bigger, longer and more athletic, with more NBA prospects. What happened last night? What happened to WVU against Kentucky...

At the start of the season, ND blows FLOR ST. out, **** 2 weeks ago they would of, but look at ND,s schedule down the stretch, brutal, every game was either emotionally or physically draning.

 

[SLCIRISH]

Note that you are leaving out the fact the Utes had NBA players on those teams. You are telling me having Andrea Miller isn't a factor? Andrea Miller was great at Utah and has had a good NBA career with All start game appearances. What about Keith Van Horn? He was a star. Not to mention Rick Majores is a great coach.

Van Horn
A. Miller
M. Doleac
J. Johnson
A.Jensen
B. Johnson
H. Mottola
T.Caton
Damn that is a "gang" of NBA players.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Van Horn
A. Miller
M. Doleac
J. Johnson
A.Jensen
B. Johnson
H. Mottola
T.Caton
Damn that is a "gang" of NBA players.

haha...Andrea Miller Doleac are two more NBA than this ND team will have. You have to put stock in someone like Miller who is a big time talent.

Look there is no doubt that the Big East is the best conference by far, but it's still overrated.

BTW great debate with you...kudos.

 

[SLCIRISH]

haha...Andrea Miller Doleac are two more NBA than this ND team will have. You have to put stock in someone like Miller who is a big time talent.

Look there is no doubt that the Big East is the best conference by far, but it's still overrated.

BTW great debate with you...kudos.

You too, maybe Marq and Conn have a run left in them?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

You too, maybe Marq and Conn have a run left in them?

Well I'm a UCONN grad...they have the best shot of the two, but they also have the toughest draw playing San Diego St and Duke or Arizona in the elite 8.

 

[GDomer09]

the problem with the big east is:
1) too many teams and too much competition, big east schools are wore out by this time.
2) the big east style of bball, doesnt fit tourney style, too many fouls, and not enough open court scoring.
3)teams are made of up of alot of under classmen, no senior leadership.

Couldn't have said it any better!

The BE & the officiating allow a much more physical play than what I've been seeing in the tourney. Most games I've watched (alot of BE games) teams have been in the penalty with 15 + min left!

 

[NCDomer]

Look at the Ute teams from the late 90's, no way they should of beaten some of the teams they did in the tourney, but with their scheduling, and ability to work on their deficiencies, instead of having to prepare for top teams game after game, they were able to advance and mostly be fresh throughout their tourney runs.
It is "cool" to play the best teams, but in reality, it hurts teams, with a few exceptions.
The Big East is not over rated, the size and level of competition, in it, make it weak at the end of the season.
But that is just my opinion.

Yet Duke and UNC advanced pretty far all those years the ACC was the best bball conference. The best explanation why is that they had good (in UNC's case a few of those years) or great coaches and a ton of talent.

Additionally, consider your argument when applied to football. The SEC has arguably the toughest conference with the most NFL talent. Arkansas had the least NFL talent last year and lost its BCS game to OSU (a team that SEC teams almost always beat). The lack of NFL talent is why the BCS refuses to let the BSUs and TCUs of the world to play in the Championship game because they claim had they played against teams with NFL talent they wouldn't win every week. Getting up for a game here and there is one thing. Being able to elevate your game each week is far more difficult and explains why talent tends to rise to the top.

 

[SLCIRISH]

Yet Duke and UNC advanced pretty far all those years the ACC was the best bball conference. The best explanation why is that they had good (in UNC's case a few of those years) or great coaches and a ton of talent.

Additionally, consider your argument when applied to football. The SEC has arguably the toughest conference with the most NFL talent. Arkansas had the least NFL talent last year and lost its BCS game to OSU (a team that SEC teams almost always beat). The lack of NFL talent is why the BCS refuses to let the BSUs and TCUs of the world to play in the Championship game because they claim had they played against teams with NFL talent they wouldn't win every week. Getting up for a game here and there is one thing. Being able to elevate your game each week is far more difficult and explains why talent tends to rise to the top.

The ACC has never been 11 deep. And has always been top heavy. How would Duke/Kansas/Ohio St./NC be doing right now if they had to battle their way through the big east regular season/CT, I bet they would be spent, just like Pitt and ND.

Basketball is different than BCS college football. In bball you have a tournament where there arent restrictions for non bcs schools, anyone can win a championship. In football, the SEC dominates not because they have the best talent, but because the system is designed for SEC schools, which in turn leads to them getting the best talent.