Rebuilding Notre Dame

[hockeychief24]

Do you guys think that we will ever get back to national championships i just dont know if there is enough talent in the state of indiana and it is getting harder and harder to recruit out of state especially in florida and texas where the huge programs are

 

[IrishBoy]

Do you guys think that we will ever get back to national championships i just dont know if there is enough talent in the state of indiana and it is getting harder and harder to recruit out of state especially in florida and texas where the huge programs are

I personally think we will get back to national championship but the question is when. We recruited very well in the last several years, but we failed to get more defensive players than we would like to have. If Notre Dame wins games against BCS teams (USC, Michigan, Stanford and the likes) then they should be able to recruit out of state in Florida and Texas easily. Win games matter to recruits. Right now, we don't look impressive to high school recruits and we lost so far three best recruits. It takes time given this is Kelly's first year.

 

[IrishinSyria]

We'll be good, but we'll never be dominant for long periods of time. We could win a national championship, but there's no guarantee anymore. When ND was setting its records, it was like Montreal in the original 6. There were only a few programs in the country that could compete. Now, we're more like Montreal in the current NHL. No reason that we can't win a championship, but no reason we should win one any given year either. We'll need to get the perfect mix of a low injury season, good coaching, good players with intangibles etc...

Back in the day ND could put the top 120 players in the Midwest on scholarship. Obviously, this is no longer possible nor even all that desirable.

 

[enrico514]

We'll be good, but we'll never be dominant for long periods of time. We could win a national championship, but there's no guarantee anymore. When ND was setting its records, it was like Montreal in the original 6. There were only a few programs in the country that could compete. Now, we're more like Montreal in the current NHL. No reason that we can't win a championship, but no reason we should win one any given year either. We'll need to get the perfect mix of a low injury season, good coaching, good players with intangibles etc...

Back in the day ND could put the top 120 players in the Midwest on scholarship. Obviously, this is no longer possible nor even all that desirable.

Please do not compare ND football to the Habs... as a Montreal native I can guarantee (99.9% certain) you that Montreal will not win the cup anytime soon. The Canadiens are one team now destined to mediocrity.

On a side note there are only 2 teams I never bet on... Habs and ND!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Rebuilding Notre Dame

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Do you guys think that we will ever get back to national championships i just dont know if there is enough talent in the state of indiana and it is getting harder and harder to recruit out of state especially in florida and texas where the huge programs are

That is okay, it will give us more time to sit around in our crying circles, and wipe our eyes with our hankies lest we find ourselves crying too profusely.

And who gives a **** about IN? OH, IL, PA, NJ, etc, etc, are doing just fine!

 

[phork]

At this point in time my answer is no.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

Are you ****ing serious?

Winning in college football comes down to two things: program wherewithal and coaching. Notre Dame has always had the wherewithal, and finally got around to getting a homerun coach. RELAX. Rome wasn't built in a day, and it sure as hell wasn't rebuilt in a day either!

And when did Indiana EVER have a myriad of great football players? Notre Dame's midwestern base had been Cincinnati and Chicago for a while, no? Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania New Jersey, California. Texas and Florida have fallen off, but that will take care of itself with some W's. Can Notre Dame win again? Anyone can win, there is no curse, go take a Valium or something please.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Please do not compare ND football to the Habs... as a Montreal native I can guarantee (99.9% certain) you that Montreal will not win the cup anytime soon. The Canadiens are one team now destined to mediocrity.

On a side note there are only 2 teams I never bet on... Habs and ND!

My point wasn't that ND= the Habs, rather it was that both teams grew their legends in a very different time against, frankly, less competition. Now days ND and the Habs are both competing on a much more even level against a bigger field. They still have the advantage of a loyal, if hyper critical, fanbase, but they just don't have the comparative advantages they used to.

This, by the way, is why I was always supportive of CW. If you told me the ND was going to have 2 BCS years, 1 bad year and 2 6-6 years from now on, I would take that deal in a second.

 

[Rocket89]

Please do not compare ND football to the Habs... as a Montreal native I can guarantee (99.9% certain) you that Montreal will not win the cup anytime soon. The Canadiens are one team now destined to mediocrity.

On a side note there are only 2 teams I never bet on... Habs and ND!

The comparisons between the Habs and ND football are very on point.

Both franchises are experiencing a lot of the same problems right now, almost the same championship droughts, etc.

The major difference being the Belle Centre rocks the house, while ND Stadium is a giant snooze fest.

 

[kmoose]

it is getting harder and harder to recruit out of state especially in florida and texas where the huge programs are

Armando Allen
Zeke Motta
Louis Nix
Dan Wenger
Ian Williams
Lo Wood

I think we are doing OK, in recruiting Florida.

Get back to winning 8-9-10 games a year, and the quality and quantity will only increase.

 

[jmurphy75]

Everyone wants the instant gratification of National Prominence, that doesn't just happen. ND will be relevant and win a NC again but there are certain things that come first like a winning record, recruiting a shut down defense, these will come....my parents always told me that nothing worth having is easy. Just because we're ND doesn't entitle us to anything the coaches and players are going to have to work their asses off for every little bit of it

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

We will be back soon. How long will it take? Who knows..., but I really think we are headed in the right direction. This is going to take some time to fix this mess we have found ourselves in. We now have a coach is known for winning and putting a good football team on the field with his players. BK and his staff need a couple of years to put all the pieces together. I think this season has been difficult to watch because we are learning new systems, new coaching staff, and my goodness we have been plagued by so many injuries. There is just so much going on right now and things have been hard, but I think you see ND back in a BCS game within 2-3 years for sure.

 

[zemaniak]

Please do not compare ND football to the Habs... as a Montreal native I can guarantee (99.9% certain) you that Montreal will not win the cup anytime soon. The Canadiens are one team now destined to mediocrity.

On a side note there are only 2 teams I never bet on... Habs and ND!

At least ND is still king when it comes to recruiting on its home turf, and its brethen still want to play for ND

the habs, well it's sad how few Quebecers we have and how many of our boys would prefer NOT to play for la "Sainte-Flanelle"

Habs situation = ND x 100 !

 

[Jerry]

Kelly is really going to have to bring in top lineman recruits if he want's to consistently compete for the BCS. I can't stress this enough, especially defensive line recruits. Look back at the top Weis classes from a few years ago. Some really nice skill position players and some top O-line. But ND has consistently whiffed on D-lineman. Especially tackle. They have gotten lucky that guys like Pat Kuntz and Ian Williams (as 3 star recruits) have panned out to be very serviceable players. But when I look at the top recruiting classes of SC, Texas, Florida, OSU, ect. the biggest glaring difference between them and ND is defensive line recruiting.

 

[enrico514]

My point wasn't that ND= the Habs, rather it was that both teams grew their legends in a very different time against, frankly, less competition. Now days ND and the Habs are both competing on a much more even level against a bigger field. They still have the advantage of a loyal, if hyper critical, fanbase, but they just don't have the comparative advantages they used to.

This, by the way, is why I was always supportive of CW. If you told me the ND was going to have 2 BCS years, 1 bad year and 2 6-6 years from now on, I would take that deal in a second.

The fan base is THE main reason I don't see Montreal winning the cup any time soon. Habs fans are unrealistic and extremely impatient. Team gets a couple of win and the majority believe the cup will be won... Only to be disappointed when reality sets in when they loose a couple of games... Then it's the end of the world and we must fire yet another coach because on an unrealistic fan base. Fans have also made it real hard to bring talent in... Very few want to play under the crazy scrutiny they would get as a Habs player. You are right... Lots of similarities!

 

[IrishinSyria]

They have gotten lucky that guys like Pat Kuntz and Ian Williams (as 3 star recruits) have panned out to be very serviceable players. But when I look at the top recruiting classes of SC, Texas, Florida, OSU, ect. the biggest glaring difference between them and ND is defensive line recruiting.

I think you're close to the mark here, but the problem isn't so much quality as it is quantity on both lines.

Don't get me wrong, a Suh in the middle or a Justin Tuck type on the outside would be phenomenal, but our biggest problem in the trenches is that guys have had to play way too early. Wisconsin's D-line is always fierce because they get a bunch of big athletic dudes and give them a few years in the weightroom and on the practice field battling Wisconsin's big, extra O-linemen. What's the result? One of the best D-lines in the country, featuring a kid who was a 0 star TE coming out of highschool.

 

[Jerry]

I think you're close to the mark here, but the problem isn't so much quality as it is quantity on both lines.

Don't get me wrong, a Suh in the middle or a Justin Tuck type on the outside would be phenomenal, but our biggest problem in the trenches is that guys have had to play way too early. Wisconsin's D-line is always fierce because they get a bunch of big athletic dudes and give them a few years in the weightroom and on the practice field battling Wisconsin's big, extra O-linemen. What's the result? One of the best D-lines in the country, featuring a kid who was a 0 star TE coming out of highschool.

Right, there has been a lack of d-line recruits just in general over the last 7 or 8 years. Like I said if you look at Weis' top classes there just aren't many d-line recruits there. This may have to do with switching schemes a bunch of times over the last decade. D-lineman don't like a program that can't decide whether they want to be a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense. If Kelly can establish the 3-4 he should be able to sell the program better to recruits.

 

[lookingdeadred]

Obviously ND never gets back to the top recruiting out of Indiana

Obviously ND never gets back to the top recruiting out of Indiana

not sure if they ever did. ND has always had a national recruiting base, but unlike in the not so distant past, ND has to fight to get the top players. ND's reputation used to allow them to get most of the kids they wanted, that is not usually the case any more. Also, ND now has a lot more competition for the top academic recruits as schools like Stanford and BC have become more competitive than in years past.

Do you guys think that we will ever get back to national championships i just dont know if there is enough talent in the state of indiana and it is getting harder and harder to recruit out of state especially in florida and texas where the huge programs are

 

[Old Man Mike]

There was an old football book which featured a picture of Justin Tuck to illustrate Notre Dame for that year. It said under the picture: "Notre Dame's defense is like a straight-ahead diesel locomotive." Stephon Tuitt reminds me a lot of that locomotive.

 

[hockeychief24]

Armando Allen
Zeke Motta
Louis Nix
Dan Wenger
Ian Williams
Lo Wood

I think we are doing OK, in recruiting Florida.

Get back to winning 8-9-10 games a year, and the quality and quantity will only increase.

We have lost aaron lynch and jordan prestwood in the matter of weeks. I'm just saying with florida and fsu in florida it is hard enough to recruit out of state and we have academic resrictions that they dont.

 

[hockeychief24]

That is okay, it will give us more time to sit around in our crying circles, and wipe our eyes with our hankies lest we find ourselves crying too profusely.

And who gives a **** about IN? OH, IL, PA, NJ, etc, etc, are doing just fine!

i was just thinking about the future of the program and shut the hell up by the way

 

[goldnblew]

Sad Sad Sad

Sad Sad Sad

There are indices for just about anything. GNP, consumer price index, and the NRI (Notre Dame relevancy indicator). In past years, it was clear that Notre Dame was relevant, at minimum topical. On one side, you had the disciples of Lou Holtz who would predict every August that ND ha an inside track to double digit wins, a BCS bowl, and with any lucky of the Irish, a chance at the NC. On the other side was an equally enthusiastic throng known as haters.

The NRI was measured, in part, by the raw number and the ferocity of the haters. Sadly, the current state of the NRI is pretty dismal as the number of haters have fallen to record lows.

Two other factors have further contributed to the low NRI.

first, many haters have become sympathizers - and as we know, there is nothing that lowers relevancy more than sympathy.

Secondly, the ND blogs, devoid of haters have turned into forums where the Holtz disciples argue amongst themselves about - you guessed it, "when will be relevant?, will we ever be relevant?"

Sad really.

 

[lookingdeadred]

Good point regarding the DL

Good point regarding the DL

ND has struggled to recruit quality DLs for a while now, especially DTs. Until this changes, ND will not be elite on the defensive side of the ball.

Kelly is really going to have to bring in top lineman recruits if he want's to consistently compete for the BCS. I can't stress this enough, especially defensive line recruits. Look back at the top Weis classes from a few years ago. Some really nice skill position players and some top O-line. But ND has consistently whiffed on D-lineman. Especially tackle. They have gotten lucky that guys like Pat Kuntz and Ian Williams (as 3 star recruits) have panned out to be very serviceable players. But when I look at the top recruiting classes of SC, Texas, Florida, OSU, ect. the biggest glaring difference between them and ND is defensive line recruiting.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogtrotter07
That is okay, it will give us more time to sit around in our crying circles, and wipe our eyes with our hankies lest we find ourselves crying too profusely.

And who gives a **** about IN? OH, IL, PA, NJ, etc, etc, are doing just fine!

i was just thinking about the future of the program and shut the hell up by the way

A) No one can predict the future of this program with any certainty. Don't you think lamenting a future that hasn't happened (gloom and doom) is deserving of a response like mine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishinSyria
My point wasn't that ND= the Habs, rather it was that both teams grew their legends in a very different time against, frankly, less competition. Now days ND and the Habs are both competing on a much more even level against a bigger field. They still have the advantage of a loyal, if hyper critical, fanbase, but they just don't have the comparative advantages they used to.

This, by the way, is why I was always supportive of CW. If you told me the ND was going to have 2 BCS years, 1 bad year and 2 6-6 years from now on, I would take that deal in a second.

I agree. I personally think Charlie Weis should have stayed for one or two more years. Thinking about this. if Weis started out 3-9, 7-6, 6-6, 10-3, and 9-3 , would we fire him? No.

Also, it makes me wondering about this. If it is true Kelly is found to be neglect on Declan's death then why should he keep the job even though it will cost Notre Dame over 20 million dollars due to Kelly's poor judgment? What about George O'Leary who was asked to resign over his resume he lied about? If Kelly was able to keep the job regardless, why shouldn't O'Leary keep the job after he lied his resume?

Let me know if you want me to point out the errors in logic contained within your post. There are at least four major ones.

But where are you getting this $20 million settlement stuff. Nobody who had any knowledge of the business, let alone anyone involved in this situation would open their mouths at this point. Do you think any of the talking heads that have thrown out this silly cac have any idea how these cases are valued?

 

[IrishinSyria]

A) No one can predict the future of this program with any certainty. Don't you think lamenting a future that hasn't happened (gloom and doom) is deserving of a response like mine?



Let me know if you want me to point out the errors in logic contained within your post. There are at least four major ones.

But where are you getting this $20 million settlement stuff. Nobody who had any knowledge of the business, let alone anyone involved in this situation would open their mouths at this point. Do you think any of the talking heads that have thrown out this silly cac have any idea how these cases are valued?

Umm the way that gets quoted looks like I said something about $20million dollars and Declan and stuff... and I definitely didn't and don't see any post here so... I guess I'm confused?

 

[IrishBoy]

Umm the way that gets quoted looks like I said something about $20million dollars and Declan and stuff... and I definitely didn't and don't see any post here so... I guess I'm confused?

IrishinSyria -- Actually, I posted that one then I deleted it. It was me who said it could be over 20 million dollars. Several newspapers suggested Notre Dame may pay that much money, not my own opinion. This is why I think it's the best to hold my opinion until the investigation completes.

 

[irishtrain]

I have not been saying much lately because I'm pretty negative on my beloved Irish. I will say this that they have given alot this year except for the Navy game. But they are out of players and out of gas for the remainder of this campaign. My feeling is that this program needs a total overhaul but not with the coach. I still think he can coach as well as anybody in the country, but he is outgunned on the field in speed,toughness, and football savy thru his players-especially now that the injuries have piled up on what was a thin to begin with football team. The answer to Notre Dame pulling itself out of this mess is with the administration. They dont have the players needed its as simple as that. I dont think they will ever change. The new Notre Dame Experience is something I must get used to and understand that a winning football program is no longer a priority. They will continue to try to compete ala college vs semi pros and the fan base will continue to hope. I dont see much changing but I guarentee you its not Brian Kelly that needs changing. I think they've already made their decision so I'll just live with Notre Dame as the team it is today. They let a national icon of sports in America slip thru their hands. America doesnt care about Notre Dame's ideals anymore they just want Notre Dame to be Notre Dame again.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I refuse to come to any conclusion about this until I give Kelly at least three years to show which way we're going [and how "high" ], and two more to then establish it soundly.