What to do next

[tommyIRISH23]

There is a ton of contradicting information floating around about ND's admission standard for football players, some say it's way to rigid, and some say it's not as strict as most believe/ or as strict as it was under Malloy.

Honestly, I have got no idea what is true, or isn't? Does anyone have any insight on the subject that is fact, not first or second hand "he said, she said".

Once we have established where the University stands on football admissions, what does the institution do next? If too tight...do they loosen up? If admission is not the problem, then what is, and how is it fixed?

Here is my take;

There is a problem at ND. At some point, from top to bottom, there was something seriously wrong with the football program. Has it been fixed, and this is what we have been left with after the storm passed? Or is the problem still a problem and just getting worse and worse.

Like it or not, college football is a business. College football is a cash cow for Notre Dame. From a business perspective, ND football being successful is a must for ND to continue functioning the way it has. The fanbase, tv contract, ND apparel, endorsements..etc are all worth billions of dollars to Notre Dame. ND is not, and will not be okay with joining the MAC, or Ivy League. I do not see that as an option. ND, in the end, will bend to ensure that she is on top again. There is just way to much money at stake. (Let's not argue the ethics of that). Nomatter how much better we think ND is because of her standards, if she does not win, those standards will go out the window. Another poster here, I do not remember who it was, made a comment about how ND has not always been the gold standard of recruiting players. Back in the 80's early 90's Holtz brought in some guys that would not be admitted today. But the new admin got tough on standards, and that led to Holtz skippin town.

Now, if the problem is players, I think ND will bend to get what is needed to bring wins back to Notre Dame. I think a lot of us see recruiting black and white, as in if they cannot get into Notre Dame, then they are thugs and unworthy. I am by no means endorsing bringing noel devine, or a vick to ND. But there are a lot of players whom are of average intelligence that are really good at football, and are good kids. Judging a book by it's cover is a slippery slope. For instance, say there is a kid from Miami inner city public school system whom is a 5* LB that has a C- GPA. I think, the school should take a look at the kid, and evaluate everything. What if he works a job to support 5 brothers and sisters, his mother is single, and he's dyslexic, but the school he went to does not have the resources to diagnose or give assistance for the condition? He is not a ND guy because he has a C-?

If the problem is not players, then what is it? I'll use Chemo Therapy as a comparison. During Chemo Therapy a person looks horrible. A lot of the time, they look worse during the radiation then they do prior to being sick. But the Chemo is getting rid of the disease, and while you look like you are dying, you are in the process of getting better. Is this present ND team going through Chemo therapy? Does the surface look this ugly, but in reality, Kelly is getting rid of the virus that has infected ND for years, and this is the beginning of getting better?

Or

Is there a problem that is still ongoing, and full blown in the ND program? Is it mental? Physical? I see a lot of these players being conditioned losers, they just do not know how to win. These younger guy's are the foundation of ND, and honestly, the fate of ND may rest on the shoulders of this years soph's, freshmen, and incoming recruits. They have to hit the ground running.

ND needs to change something, maybe it is changing, and we are witnessing the process of change. But something needs to be done, and soon.

 

[DCirishfan]

Chemo Therapy was a bad choice for an analogy.

The problem is we need to get better players and have someone that can get the most out of them... simple problem apparently a not so simple a solution.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Chemo Therapy was a bad choice for an analogy.

The problem is we need to get better players and have someone that can get the most out of them... simple problem apparently a not so simple a solution.

Yeah that is a very simple solution, but can we get better players?

 

[DCirishfan]

Not to be overly critical but at some positions we could not get much worse. If I was a player I would not come to ND till I felt there was an entrenched coach that was going to have a long run. Right now if im a recruit I go elsewhere as Kelly has not received a passing grade this year.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Not to be overly critical but at some positions we could not get much worse. If I was a player I would not come to ND till I felt there was an entrenched coach that was going to have a long run. Right now if im a recruit I go elsewhere as Kelly has not received a passing grade this year.

Good point. But haha if you're a 5* there is no doubt you are going to play early.

 

[DCirishfan]

Good point. But haha if you're a 5* there is no doubt you are going to play early.

Yeah, well don't get your hopes up of having too many 5 star recruits this year. They would have to be an ND fan or something to come to SB under the current cloud of mierda.

 

[irishtrain]

There is a ton of contradicting information floating around about ND's admission standard for football players, some say it's way to rigid, and some say it's not as strict as most believe/ or as strict as it was under Malloy.

Honestly, I have got no idea what is true, or isn't? Does anyone have any insight on the subject that is fact, not first or second hand "he said, she said".

Once we have established where the University stands on football admissions, what does the institution do next? If too tight...do they loosen up? If admission is not the problem, then what is, and how is it fixed?

Here is my take;

There is a problem at ND. At some point, from top to bottom, there was something seriously wrong with the football program. Has it been fixed, and this is what we have been left with after the storm passed? Or is the problem still a problem and just getting worse and worse.

Like it or not, college football is a business. College football is a cash cow for Notre Dame. From a business perspective, ND football being successful is a must for ND to continue functioning the way it has. The fanbase, tv contract, ND apparel, endorsements..etc are all worth billions of dollars to Notre Dame. ND is not, and will not be okay with joining the MAC, or Ivy League. I do not see that as an option. ND, in the end, will bend to ensure that she is on top again. There is just way to much money at stake. (Let's not argue the ethics of that). Nomatter how much better we think ND is because of her standards, if she does not win, those standards will go out the window. Another poster here, I do not remember who it was, made a comment about how ND has not always been the gold standard of recruiting players. Back in the 80's early 90's Holtz brought in some guys that would not be admitted today. But the new admin got tough on standards, and that led to Holtz skippin town.

Now, if the problem is players, I think ND will bend to get what is needed to bring wins back to Notre Dame. I think a lot of us see recruiting black and white, as in if they cannot get into Notre Dame, then they are thugs and unworthy. I am by no means endorsing bringing noel devine, or a vick to ND. But there are a lot of players whom are of average intelligence that are really good at football, and are good kids. Judging a book by it's cover is a slippery slope. For instance, say there is a kid from Miami inner city public school system whom is a 5* LB that has a C- GPA. I think, the school should take a look at the kid, and evaluate everything. What if he works a job to support 5 brothers and sisters, his mother is single, and he's dyslexic, but the school he went to does not have the resources to diagnose or give assistance for the condition? He is not a ND guy because he has a C-?

If the problem is not players, then what is it? I'll use Chemo Therapy as a comparison. During Chemo Therapy a person looks horrible. A lot of the time, they look worse during the radiation then they do prior to being sick. But the Chemo is getting rid of the disease, and while you look like you are dying, you are in the process of getting better. Is this present ND team going through Chemo therapy? Does the surface look this ugly, but in reality, Kelly is getting rid of the virus that has infected ND for years, and this is the beginning of getting better?

Or

Is there a problem that is still ongoing, and full blown in the ND program? Is it mental? Physical? I see a lot of these players being conditioned losers, they just do not know how to win. These younger guy's are the foundation of ND, and honestly, the fate of ND may rest on the shoulders of this years soph's, freshmen, and incoming recruits. They have to hit the ground running.

ND needs to change something, maybe it is changing, and we are witnessing the process of change. But something needs to be done, and soon.

Tommy-this is what I am talking about as you put it so well. Its not letting in thugs but it is letting in the average student/football player to compete. The admn needs to make a decision here and answer the question do you want to win. With that you bring the toughness that Notre Dame needs and deserves to win on the football field. Every Notre Dame man under winning years was not a future 'Athletic Director' or head of the Mayo Clinic'. Some players were brought in to fill a roster to win football games. The idea is admirable but Brian Kelly or Vince Lombardi/Knute Rockne will not win under the current plan. Its a simple question do you want to win football games. Its a simple answer-go to the coach and tell him to bring in the studs needed to get it done. Notre Dame and its culture should be able to take care of the social/education of these young men. If they mess up let them go home but dont play this charrade anymore. The fine young men you are putting on the field are getting their @##$% whipped and you are losing your fan base and respect around the country.

 

[BestBIrish47]

My opinion is WE are the problem. The expectations, the pressure, the over exposure etc. We are all disgruntled about this season, (or the last 22) but have you read the game routine for our Coaches and Players? The fact that at Notre Dame it has to be a 5 minute plan, not a 5 year. I think we have lost some key coaching canidates in years past due to the intense pressure the Alumni puts on the program.

I have been on teams in my past that had histories of great success but fell on hard times. In order to regain, or rebuild that culture of success, sometimes you have to rebuild that foundation(Rock Bottom). This is normally pretty ugly and doesn't return many quick profits. After the Foundation is fixed, you proceed fixing other bad behaviors, and one by one the Culture is reborn. At this point is when you start to see the benefits, but it takes time. I only pray we have hit our bottom so the building can begin.

 

[DCirishfan]

My opinion is WE are the problem. The expectations, the pressure, the over exposure etc. We are all disgruntled about this season, (or the last 22) but have you read the game routine for our Coaches and Players? The fact that at Notre Dame it has to be a 5 minute plan, not a 5 year. I think we have lost some key coaching canidates in years past due to the intense pressure the Alumni puts on the program.

I have been on teams in my past that had histories of great success but fell on hard times. In order to regain, or rebuild that culture of success, sometimes you have to rebuild that foundation(Rock Bottom). This is normally pretty ugly and doesn't return many quick profits. After the Foundation is fixed, you proceed fixing other bad behaviors, and one by one the Culture is reborn. At this point is when you start to see the benefits, but it takes time. I only pray we have hit our bottom so the building can begin.

I disagree 100 percent ,with respect. We have won one bowl game in what the last 10 years plus and it was the aloha bowl, we just lost to Navy for a third time and lost to Tulsa at home. These are the things that we SHOULD expect to not happen and frankly I don't think respectability is a bar that is too high for ND football.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Absolutely do not, in any way, shape or form lower GPA requirements or SAT/ACT requirements. Do not lower curriculum standards or anything of the sort. Period.

Navy has much tougher restriction on their admission and look at the team they put on the field. Stanford is another that has strict admissions requirements and they are putting out a pretty good squad. Tough admissions requirements is a cop out answer to why ND is struggling.

 

[BestBIrish47]

I disagree 100 percent ,with respect. We have won one bowl game in what the last 10 years plus and it was the aloha bowl, we just lost to Navy for a third time and lost to Tulsa at home. These are the things that we SHOULD expect to not happen and frankly I don't think respectability is a bar that is too high for ND football.

I respect that point of view and agree with the results being the opposite of desirable. My point is I think we have placed a certain amount of "Fix it now or else" on our program. This enviroment breeds quick fixes, patchwork solutions so to speak. These practices almost never return consistent positive results. I agree 110% that Notre Dame should never lose these kind of games. I agree 110% there needs to be reasonable accountablity towards the lack of performance at all levels. I think in order to get us back to where we all feel we belong, we have to take our lumps, and stick with a system.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

Just my two cents here...., I think we have hit rock bottom fellas, and lord only knows it is ugly at the moment. We have been mediocre at best now for several years and this year has been an absolute disaster in so many different regards. I think BK is the right guy for the job, but it is just taking alot longer than we all expected and wanted and the results this year on the field have been poor (to put it politely). I think this year had some potential but we have had some tough breaks on top of alot of other things this year like new systems, coaches etc. Our injury list keeps growing by the week and we just can't seem to be healthy and it is hard to win games, when kids are still learning a new system, themes etc and we are dropping players like flies to injury. I am concerned about losing some of our recruits over the last month, and we really need to fix that problem because our future depends on it. We need to secure our current recruits and really try to get some big names out of this class that still have ND in the running for their services. We are in the middle of a nasty storm..., the question is this...., how long will the storm last?

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I respect that point of view and agree with the results being the opposite of desirable. My point is I think we have placed a certain amount of "Fix it now or else" on our program. This enviroment breeds quick fixes, patchwork solutions so to speak. These practices almost never return consistent positive results. I agree 110% that Notre Dame should never lose these kind of games. I agree 110% there needs to be reasonable accountablity towards the lack of performance at all levels. I think in order to get us back to where we all feel we belong, we have to take our lumps, and stick with a system.

I agree. There is no reason that Brian Kelly cannot get us to a 9/10 win threshold on a constant basis, but I think that it requires some consistency, and just sticking through the ugly. We are not a simple case of rebuilding where we have the right players, and need the right coach. Or need a few more players to get back to the top. It's going to take a year or 2 to see positive change. I think next year we should see DRASTIC changes, and should achieve at least 8 wins. That should bet he benchmark. Kelly's system does not necessarily involve a overhaul of personnel (i.e. Rich Rod) but does need time to get comfortable.

How does our Oline look?

 

[tommyIRISH23]

The good part about being ND is that when we are down we get beat up by eveyrone, but after a season or 2 of winning 9 games, this will all be forgotten.

 

[aaronb]

I disagree 100 percent ,with respect. We have won one bowl game in what the last 10 years plus and it was the aloha bowl, we just lost to Navy for a third time and lost to Tulsa at home. These are the things that we SHOULD expect to not happen and frankly I don't think respectability is a bar that is too high for ND football.

Here in lies the rub though. You are going to have to give ANYONE who comes in and coaches this team some time. Especially a guy like Kelly who is bringing in new offensive AND defensive schemes. It's similar to the dilemma that Michigan faced going from Carr to RichRod.

Charlie Weis went to 2 BCS games in his first 2 years. Doing it with Schollie numbers in the 70's no less. Yet as soon as 2007 happened. You had the vultures out looking for blood. It really kind of poisoned the atmosphere and hampered some recruiting efforts.

It will be interesting to see if that same thing happens to Kelly now? Does the vocal minority have the patience and awareness to realize it isn't 1950 anymore?

 

[BestBIrish47]

Here is what most Notre Dame fans are saying... don't be Bill Paxson in Aliens ok, I am tired of it. LOL

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[Sureal]

I know I've been away for a while (seminary) but I keep reading the rock bottom term posted liberally. Silly me. I thought 3-9 was rock bottom. Whatever that 'it' is that's missing has now been missing for umpteen yrs now...every year especially recently has been the same thing over and over again. I just need some hope. That's all. Just a little...