Perspective (and why I don't get college football)

IrishLax

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I was on the phone today with my grandmother who just so happens to be a season ticket holder for Missouri. She was as elated at their win over Oklahoma as I was seriously dumbfounded, shocked and depressed over the Navy game. Halfway through my rant about Notre Dame, she cuts me off and says this:

"You do realize we got killed last year by Navy last year in our bowl game right? And now we're #6 in the BCS."

So to everyone freaking out... stop.

I was all kinds of emotional after the game this Saturday but now I realize it is what it is and the only thing that can really do us in would be if we lost our sick recruiting class. As long as everyone calms down, realizes this is a rebuilding year and we keep all of the impact players on board... we will be just fine.

Don't believe me? See: Missouri Tigers.
 

no.1IrishFan

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How dare you be rational, don't you know that this loss to Navy is the single reason ND will never be good again and that BK is a failure?

Get your head out of the clouds and stop thinking logically ;)

All joking aside lets just be honest with ourselves. The loss to Navy hurt our egos more than anything.
College football has changed, ND isn't always great, and guess what Navy isn't always bad.

We got so used to beating Navy that we never imagined they could actually field a good team.
Well guess what, they did and it's not the end of the world people.
 
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Jerry

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Trust me I've been bringing up the close OSU loss and the Missouri win by Navy to people for the last 10 months. Pretty much whenever anybody tries to dog ND's schedule for playing the service academies. But I still would have liked for us to play a little better on defense last Saturday.
 

Riddickulous

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We'll get this thing turned around.

But only when we get speed defensively. And discipline.
 

IrishinSyria

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On the other hand, Navy also beat the crap out of Louisiana Tech last year and they still suck.

Bottom line, we're not Missouri and we're not Louisiana Tech. While it's nice to know that teams can recover from this sort of thing, there are a lot of good reasons to be concerned from Saturday's game. The apparent lack of passion and preparation being the main ones. However, I don't see how people can give up on Kelly and this team based on Saturday. Throughout the year, we've all seen the players show, at various times: speed, skill, passion and promise. They just have to put the whole package together. As fans, it is literally impossible for us to say when or if that will happen. Just that it can happen.
 

Mihalko35

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Well, how cool is it that you have a grandmother to talk college football with!
 

zemaniak

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On the other hand, Navy also beat the crap out of Louisiana Tech last year and they still suck.

Bottom line, we're not Missouri and we're not Louisiana Tech. While it's nice to know that teams can recover from this sort of thing, there are a lot of good reasons to be concerned from Saturday's game. The apparent lack of passion and preparation being the main ones. However, I don't see how people can give up on Kelly and this team based on Saturday. Throughout the year, we've all seen the players show, at various times: speed, skill, passion and promise. They just have to put the whole package together. As fans, it is literally impossible for us to say when or if that will happen. Just that it can happen.

OH, I can see myself giving up on Diaco plenty. Watch me.
 

Irish Houstonian

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I was thinking of posting this very same point, yet I still can't figure out how to start threads. Kudos.

The game reminded me of GT's stomping of Miami a few years back, a game that Miami now wins every year. Bottom line, once the UM coaches got the hang of it it really wasn't much of an issue.
 

Riddickulous

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OH, I can see myself giving up on Diaco plenty. Watch me.

I'm with you there.

I don't think Diaco is much of a coordinator. We were so utterly unprepared for the triple option on Saturday that is was appalling.

Diaco will get at least one more year to strut his stuff. If he can't get it done, we'll probably see Chuck Martin with a promotion.
 

MeanGreen

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People need to realize the players at Navy are not the rejects from the Waterboy. These men are smart, determined, and athletic. The Navy is not giving commissions to couch potatoes and mental midgets. My feeling is they have had a run. A great bunch of seniors who came on the scene at the right time. Practice their system, had faith in their ability and their coaches and played their hearts out and their asses off.

Still do not like losing to them 3 out of 4 years, but two of those years were the perfect storm if you will. Clausen freshmen years was bad for us. Way to many new starters and not enough confidence or ability. Coaching wasn't so great either. This year a new staff, system and starters. Again a perfect storm. A big disadvantage for us was our coaches had never seen the offense or played against it before so they did not have a clue. It showed.

As I have said in other posts, I have no idea how Kelly tenure will turn out. It could be 3 years it could be 11. I know this I am not judging him after 8 games. I won't even judge him after this year. Somewhere around the middle of next year we should know. Lou second team turned in a performance after the Pitt lose up to the Penn State game that was impressive. The three game losing streak to end the season was to three Top 10 teams, PSU, Miami and Texas A&M.

Patience is a virtue, hopefully!
 

zemaniak

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watch the Navy game
notice us getting spanked on D
then notice it happening time and again in the 1st half, same 2-4 plays repeated over and over again
then notice at the half BK using the "Veer" explanation for our shortcomings, then claiming to have made adjustments (in essence covering for Diaco)
then see the same spanking continue on D in the second half

My question is this: How can you claim to be a top program college DC and
1) not be able to prepare for a system in existence since the 70s ! (all the while stating it had been practiced all summer long!)

2) not do a SINGLE thing to counter it once confronted with it?

I'm not protecting the players here, they played poorly as a whole, but I've never seen them so out of it since the Michigan game, and although I can't stand any ND player having a defeatist attitude, I believe that this being a pivotal year, it's on the coaches to be prepared and show the required leadership in order to quench the stench that we have let permeate

A shameful display through and through
 
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NeuteredDoomer

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I was thinking of posting this very same point, yet I still can't figure out how to start threads. Kudos...

On the home page, go to the blue bar near the top and click on Forums. Then click on the general topic area you want to post about (ND Football, Recruiting, Leprechaun lounge. Near the top of the screen on the left, you will see a light blue bubble that says New Thread, or something like that. Click on there and post away.
 

Rocket89

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Damn you preempted the topic for my next article.

I've been talking to some Mizzou fans...and the problems in both of our losses are very, very similar.
 

mrmiller8

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watch the Navy game
notice us getting spanked on D
then notice it happening time and again in the 1st half, same 2-4 plays repeated over and over again
then notice at the half BK using the "Veer" explanation for our shortcomings, then claiming to have made adjustments (in essence covering for Diaco)
then see the same spanking continue on D in the second half

My question is this: How can you claim to be a top program college DC and
1) not be able to prepare for a system in existence since the 70s ! (all the while stating it had been practiced all summer long!)

2) not do a SINGLE thing to counter it once confronted with it?

I'm not protecting the players here, they played poorly as a whole, but I've never seen them so out of it since the Michigan game, and although I can't stand any ND player having a defeatist attitude, I believe that this being a pivotal year, it's on the coaches to be prepared and show the required leadership in order to quench the stench that we have let permeate

A shameful display through and through

Ok your two reasons that you stated are ridiculous. The triple option and the veer are probably the two hardest plays in college football to stop, especially when you have experienced QB, FB and Wings.....You can simulate things in practice all you want. Thats like saying "I don't understand how you can't stop Peyton Manning, we prepared for him all year long!" Yeah the option has been around for a lot longer than the 70s too. Playing the option is all about playing assignment football and every man has one responsibility and when that responsibility gets blown it generally goes for 10 to 15 yard gain or a TD. the option isolates players and creates matchups that the Defensive player has to win, we didn't win very many of them.....obviously. We didn't play it very well and Navy is very, very good at running that system and they are gonna beat a lot of people running it. **** happens life goes on and Kelly needs to find a way to stop it next year or else he will struggle against navy his entire tenure at ND.

As far as being "uninspired." How exactly would you like them to act... Would like them all to yell and scream at each other? I have seen teams yell and scream at each other, then they point fingers and thats always what it takes to get a defense motivated. The midshipmen hit the irish with "seven different kinds of smoke" they were confused and illprepared, they didn't know how to stop it. I suggest next time you are leading your staff at Mcdonalds and you guys didn't have a good day in preparing cheesburgers. Let everyone yell at each other and point fingers and see what happens, that should be the ticket. The irsh defense was confused and couldn't look to anyone for any advice, our best players are sophomores and yes they are great talents but not yet leaders. 0ur coaches didn't have an answer so what were they supposed to do.......enlighten me please...
 

zemaniak

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Ok your two reasons that you stated are ridiculous. The triple option and the veer are probably the two hardest plays in college football to stop, especially when you have experienced QB, FB and Wings.....You can simulate things in practice all you want. Thats like saying "I don't understand how you can't stop Peyton Manning, we prepared for him all year long!" Yeah the option has been around for a lot longer than the 70s too. Playing the option is all about playing assignment football and every man has one responsibility and when that responsibility gets blown it generally goes for 10 to 15 yard gain or a TD. the option isolates players and creates matchups that the Defensive player has to win, we didn't win very many of them.....obviously. We didn't play it very well and Navy is very, very good at running that system and they are gonna beat a lot of people running it. **** happens life goes on and Kelly needs to find a way to stop it next year or else he will struggle against navy his entire tenure at ND.

As far as being "uninspired." How exactly would you like them to act... Would like them all to yell and scream at each other? I have seen teams yell and scream at each other, then they point fingers and thats always what it takes to get a defense motivated. The midshipmen hit the irish with "seven different kinds of smoke" they were confused and illprepared, they didn't know how to stop it. I suggest next time you are leading your staff at Mcdonalds and you guys didn't have a good day in preparing cheesburgers. Let everyone yell at each other and point fingers and see what happens, that should be the ticket. The irsh defense was confused and couldn't look to anyone for any advice, our best players are sophomores and yes they are great talents but not yet leaders. 0ur coaches didn't have an answer so what were they supposed to do.......enlighten me please...

Are you a member of the coaching staff? What a pile of BS

Ok, that off my chest, I'll remain polite for the rest of my post and "address" your comments...

So the triple option is difficult to stop, granted, as can state Navy's rushing stats. But can it be slowed down? heck yeah ! how come EVERY other opponent Navy faced this year fared BETTER than us in that regard, including teams most would qualify as "inferior" to ND?
So what's the answer then? PREPARATION. Look no further than the posts above about the Missouri game.
And thanks for helping me prove my point even further: since the option had been around even longer than what I stated, that means College coaches have been subjected to it that much longer, and therefore it should be NATURAL to be able to prepare for it, ESPECIALLY when you state having preparing your team for it for the last few months.
I won;t even address the Peyton comment, comparing Navy's offense to a world class NFL QB is retarded.
So yes, based on this, I'm calling out the DC for not preparing or more likely, BADLY preparing his players. Preparation and practice helped other teams beat or at least compete against Navy, the fact ND was not even in the game remains inexcusable. SO is the fact he was unable to adjust during the game. Simply stopping the FB dive would have taken 100yards off their game, which is at least a score. Have the DE, anyone, crash the FB on every play, period!

As for the second argument about the players, you again assume that being pumped up means having a negative blaming attitude upon one another. Well thanks for assuming I work as a burger flipper, but I'd love to see your team-building techniques!
These are kids, some of them have been in the CW years, and I'm sad to say some seem comfortable being "average". I could go on and on and forward examples of individuals players seemingly giving up on a play, or not being physical on or off a block, but if you can't see those things happening then I can't help you take off your rose-tinted glasses.
They are confused? oh please, like EVEN KELLY said, scheme is only part of the equation, players have to MAKE PLAYS ! they have to win those one-on-one match-ups ! HELL, most of these guys have played Navy before, they weren't dealing with withcraft for crissakes!

The fact that they all seemingly stand there on the sidelines with either a dejected "here we go again" stare, resolved in accepting this sorry state of affairs instead of seeing a few leaders trying to pump their buddies up and spread a never give up attitude is the worst part of it all. Again, if you didn't notice the difference in intensity between both sides then I can't help you.

You said it yourself: our best players are sophomores. whether you were referring to their talent level, will to win or potential leadership is irrelevant, I'll assume it's all three. But by that same token you are conceding that our seniors and juniors are lacking in those areas, which again proves my point.

Do this program a favor, as should we all as fans: stop excusing them. I for one won't miss them when they are gone.

I wish only two things: that the new blood isn't getting infected by this attitude, and the coaching staff doesn't make the same mistakes twice. I'm not convinced yet on either points unfortunately.
 
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neags23

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On the other hand, Navy also beat the crap out of Louisiana Tech last year and they still suck.

Bottom line, we're not Missouri and we're not Louisiana Tech. While it's nice to know that teams can recover from this sort of thing, there are a lot of good reasons to be concerned from Saturday's game. The apparent lack of passion and preparation being the main ones. However, I don't see how people can give up on Kelly and this team based on Saturday. Throughout the year, we've all seen the players show, at various times: speed, skill, passion and promise. They just have to put the whole package together. As fans, it is literally impossible for us to say when or if that will happen. Just that it can happen.

Since you decided to call out my alma mater, LaTech, I'll just have to point out what's happened the last three years:

2007: ND: no bowl (3-9), LaTech: no bowl (5-7)
2008: ND: Hawaii Bowl (6-6), LaTech: Independece Bowl (7-5)
2009: ND: no bowl (6-6), LaTech: no bowl (4-8)

So... same number of bowls, bowl wins, and Tech went 16-20, while ND went 15-21....

Yes, the schedules are vastly different, but so are the recruiting classes.
 
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IrishinSyria

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Since you decided to call out my alma mater, LaTech, I'll just have to point out what's happened the last three years:

2007: ND: no bowl (3-9), LaTech: no bowl (5-7)
2008: ND: Hawaii Bowl (6-6), LaTech: Independece Bowl (7-5)
2009: ND: no bowl (6-6), LaTech: no bowl (4-8)

So... same number of bowls, bowl wins, and Tech went 16-20, while ND went 15-21....

Yes, the schedules are vastly different, but so are the recruiting classes.

Haha, didn't mean to single out any one university, just chose a school who lost big to Navy last year and isn't all of a sudden a national title contender. I guess I'm just tired of reading all these comparisons to Lou's first year, Mizzou last year, Urbans time in jail or whatever... each team faces a completely different set of circumstances. So, while it looks like our performance has been very similar to Louisiana Tech in the past 3 years, that's no guarantee that the two schools will continue to mirror each other down the road. Obviously, anything's possible, but to say Lou went 5-6 in his first year or Mizzou lost to Navy last year so going 6-6 and losing to Navy would be good things this year...it's a little absurd.

(I haven't read your article yet Rocket, so don't take this as criticism of it. In fact, just based on the title, I like the idea. Learning from history is something I strongly support. Using it as proof of the future is something else.)
 
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Bogtrotter07

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One Foot Down | How Missouri Can Teach Notre Dame about Losing to Navy

Thoughts?

It is really a good, insightful article. Some of your work is borderline brilliant.

But one thing:

Bumbling MAC teams? You may be going a little light on one of your own points. Remember, the University of Toledo beat Purdue worse than ND did this year, and it was at Ross-Ade Stadium! They also beat the Bronco’s bad this year, but who’s counting.

Hey, you may not know this but that Missouri team you are writing about has a head coach named Gary Pinknel. Guess where he coached before Mizou? Yup! University of Toledo, he was UT’s third best coach behind the guy who established the second longest winning streak in modern college football (Frank Lauterbur), and another guy you may have heard of, oh, yeah, Nick Saban.

As Brian Kelly said, “ . . . and now there are 85 scholarships, I don’t see a separation between BCS and non-BCS anymore.”

“Your own points: stop making excuses, start playing, the days are gone where there are games that are freebies . . . “
 
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Rocket89

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It is really a good, insightful article. Some of your work is borderline brilliant.

But one thing:

Bumbling MAC teams? You may be going a little light on one of your own points. Remember, the University of Toledo beat Purdue worse than ND did this year, and it was at Ross-Ade Stadium! They also beat the Bronco’s bad this year, but who’s counting.

Hey, you may not know this but that Missouri team you are writing about has a head coach named Gary Pinknel. Guess where he coached before Mizou? Yup! University of Toledo, he was UT’s third best coach behind the guy who established the second longest winning streak in modern college football (Frank Lauterbur), and another guy you may have heard of, oh, yeah, Nick Saban.

As Brian Kelly said, “ . . . and now there are 85 scholarships, I don’t see a separation between BCS and non-BCS anymore.”

“Your own points: stop making excuses, start playing, the days are gone where there are games that are freebies . . . “

Point taken, but there are different levels of MAC teams and obviously Toledo is one of the better ones this year.

When I said "bumbling" I meant, say Eastern Michigan or Akron. Those are the truly bad football teams, whereas Toledo this year can play with some teams.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Hey, you know what would be cool? Taking BK's hypothesis, that the distance between the haves and the have not’s has all but disappeared. To actually looking at it: why does Boise State blow out "more talented" teams with less talent; follow some more talented players at smaller schools (eg., Eric Page at Toledo); and analyze and see if the won/loss ratio has shifted for the little guy since the drop from 105 to 85 scholarships, or if something else has occurred. There are a million possibilities.

PS I got it. You meant the cellar dwellers of the MAC, not that all MAC teams were bumbling.
 
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