Is our coaching staff too stubborn?

[IrishinSyria]

I would put this in one of the panic threads, but it relates to the entire season so I decided I'd make a new one.

Basically, my concern is that our coaching staff has frequently failed to take advantage of other teams' weaknesses.

Today provides me with good examples of this point on both offense and defense. On offense, it seems like a power running game in general, and Robert Hughes in particular, would have been a nightmare for Navy to defend against. They are a quick team, but seriously undersized. A few of their linebackers weighed in under 210. Instead, when we did run it we had Cierre Wood trying to stretch the d. This basically neutralized our tremendous advantage in size on the offensive line and allowed their LBs to make plays with their speed as opposed to their power. The same criticism could be applied to the Western Michigan game: they had a 205 pound defensive end and instead of running straight at him we allowed him to be productive on the pass rush all game long.

On the defensive side of the ball, today we lined up exactly the same way we line up for every game. We kept our safeties way back, our OLBs pinned to the line of scrimmage, and tried to make our defense as predictable as possible. Navy threw the ball three times all game, yet we refused to put 8 or 9 in the box. Do we have that little faith in our corners? I know Gray got burned today (did it look like he quit on that play to anybody else) but still...they should be good enough to trust with man coverage vs Navy.

There have been other games where we chose to have LBs covering WRs instead of going to a nickel or a dime package. I appreciate it that the coaches have a plan for this team and don't want to deviate from that plan, but at some point a team has to be flexible. Today was not the first time we played to another team's strengths.

So, the question is: are the coaches right in sticking to their guns? Or do we need to start making bigger adjustments? Kelly might need a few years before he has an ideal toolset, but he's got plenty of excellent weapons to use in the meantime. Does anybody else think his vision is preventing him from making the most of what he has?

 

[IrishLax]

The easy answer is yes. They really screwed the pooch with their offensive game plan today. Defensively I don't know if it's more the players or the coaches... it was just so terrible in every aspect.

 

[Riddickulous]

Yes and no.

They're way too confident in themselves. Every week we get stuffed on two or three runs and then we abandon the run game completely. Every week we come out with a horrible defensive plan and get torched.

"No" because we at least make adjustments at the half. Before this week.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

The easy answer is yes. They really screwed the pooch with their offensive game plan today. Defensively I don't know if it's more the players or the coaches... it was just so terrible in every aspect.

For the first time, I "blame" the loss on the defensive staff. I still have trouble blaming anything on the athletes all year. Still think they are busting their asses, but today, the d-scheme left the D line as sitting ducks. Shut up NDOM. D did look very lackluster too though. Overworked at practice? Who the hell knows.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I guess I felt like the offensive scheme was fine. We just repeatedly did not execute well. The 2 picks and not scoring on the opening drive were all killer.

If (and I understand this is a big if...because, well, these things happened) Dayne and TJ are on the same page and there's no pickoff at the end of the half, Navy only has 28. If we punch the ball in on 4th and 1, we have 24.

At 28-24 the game looks very different.

But, like I said, these things did happen. We didn't execute.

Defensive scheme = bad

 

[TinyT]

I'm beginning to think it is stubbornness and pride. Kelly made a name for himself, with HIS offense, but that wasn't against any schedule like he will play for his tenure at ND. He needs to realize soon, where Weis made some mistakes and fix them.

Fancy pancy run game works well against the smaller schools, but when you step up to big boy football, everyone is fast and disciplined and physical. He needs to develop some power into his offense to make it. Alabama has power, SC had power, Florida had power even Vince Young's Texas had power. It is my firm belief that misdirection and draws will only get you so far.

I am not saying that there is no place for them, but if it is all that you run then it isn't that hard to predict. The D-line and backers stay at home and its a run for -2 yards.

At some point he will need to adapt his offense to the rigors of physical big time football. I know he went 34-6 at Cinci, but they played warm-ups before the rigors of the Big East season, which isn't as tough as what ND plays. With Swarbrick beefing up the schhedule the sledding will only get tougher.

It is time to bring some physicality back to the gridiron.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I guess I felt like the offensive scheme was fine. We just repeatedly did not execute well. The 2 picks and not scoring on the opening drive were all killer.


Defensive scheme = bad

I agree the execution wasn't perfect on O. I can also think of at least 5 throws Crist should have checked down on. Still, I feel like our offensive scheme failed to exploit Navy's most obvious weakness. I wasn't trying to claim the game plan was bad, just that our coaching staff seems really unwilling to depart from their ideal scheme, regardless of opponent.

I'm beginning to think it is stubbornness and pride. Kelly made a name for himself, with HIS offense, but that wasn't against any schedule like he will play for his tenure at ND.

This is what I'm worried about.

 

[irishff1014]

The thing with the defense today was crazy. You have 3 d-lineman not much sense you are giving them to running lanes for the fullback right off the start. You need at least 4 men down. For one is makes one more lineman block and he doesn't get to the second level on the lineback. and no more then they were passing i would have played a 4-4-3

 

[kmoose]

Every week we get stuffed on two or three runs and then we abandon the run game completely. .

I'm by no means defending the coaching staff, but..... it's kind of hard to establish the run, when you running EVERY play out of the shotgun. I cannot remember one single play, this year, where the QB lined up and took the snap under center. I'm willing to give Kelly an honest chance, but I really would like to see him mix it up a bit. You don't need a bunch of misdirection and chicanery, against Navy. Line up, plow the road, and let your tailbacks pound it.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

But our O Line stands too tall and gets no leverage. Witness the first goal line play of the game. I was so pissed all day that I hitched a ride and purchased a 39 cent taco.

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

I'm by no means defending the coaching staff, but..... it's kind of hard to establish the run, when you running EVERY play out of the shotgun. I cannot remember one single play, this year, where the QB lined up and took the snap under center. I'm willing to give Kelly an honest chance, but I really would like to see him mix it up a bit. You don't need a bunch of misdirection and chicanery, against Navy. Line up, plow the road, and let your tailbacks pound it.

It looked like the pistol a few times (not sure if that is considered shotgun or not). As I recall, this formation did nothing positive. We should have been able to pound the middle. Cierre just doesn't have that mentality yet. AA was getting it, but his injury probably limited his carries.

 

[IrishinSyria]

But our O Line stands too tall and gets no leverage. Witness the first goal line play of the game. I was so pissed all day that I hitched a ride and purchased a 39 cent taco.

That play set the tone for the rest of the game. Navy said "I don't care how much you weigh and how much you bench, I'm going to win every battle." ND said, "OK."

 

[alleycat9]

i agree wholeheartedly. i had hoped that there would be some change in the "kelly offense" when he came and that he would have enough of a grasp on football to know he has to run the ball and run it with power and strength at this level.

it appears i was completely wrong and that i will probably be quite annoyed for the next 5 to 10 years. i just do not enjoy watching pansy run and gun misdirection football. i really am sick today, not because of what happened earlier but because i have been facing the fact for the past 6 weeks. this is what it is and what it will be for some time to come.

I'm beginning to think it is stubbornness and pride. Kelly made a name for himself, with HIS offense, but that wasn't against any schedule like he will play for his tenure at ND. He needs to realize soon, where Weis made some mistakes and fix them.

Fancy pancy run game works well against the smaller schools, but when you step up to big boy football, everyone is fast and disciplined and physical. He needs to develop some power into his offense to make it. Alabama has power, SC had power, Florida had power even Vince Young's Texas had power. It is my firm belief that misdirection and draws will only get you so far.

I am not saying that there is no place for them, but if it is all that you run then it isn't that hard to predict. The D-line and backers stay at home and its a run for -2 yards.

At some point he will need to adapt his offense to the rigors of physical big time football. I know he went 34-6 at Cinci, but they played warm-ups before the rigors of the Big East season, which isn't as tough as what ND plays. With Swarbrick beefing up the schhedule the sledding will only get tougher.

It is time to bring some physicality back to the gridiron.

 

[zemaniak]

this is from a few weeks back

is it just me or does BK seem a little... bullheaded?

not many adjustments during a game, nor from week to week, little to no personnel changes, sames excuses/reasons for losses/failures week after week

and yes, that quote is scary...(''we are what we are") and if you think WE find a quote like that scary, imagine what the PLAYERS are thinking if he is sending the same message to them.

I hate to be so negative, especially after only 4 games, but my love is lukewarm for BK right now.

Oh, and I hate the "spread offense" and "bend don't break" defense. Seeing Harbaugh's team last saturday gave me "Stanford envy" !
GIVE ME MORE TEO HITS !!GIVE ME SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL !!
GIVE ME ND FOOTBALL DAMNIT !!!

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

I'm beginning to think it is stubbornness and pride. Kelly made a name for himself, with HIS offense, but that wasn't against any schedule like he will play for his tenure at ND. He needs to realize soon, where Weis made some mistakes and fix them.

Fancy pancy run game works well against the smaller schools, but when you step up to big boy football, everyone is fast and disciplined and physical. He needs to develop some power into his offense to make it. Alabama has power, SC had power, Florida had power even Vince Young's Texas had power. It is my firm belief that misdirection and draws will only get you so far.

I am not saying that there is no place for them, but if it is all that you run then it isn't that hard to predict. The D-line and backers stay at home and its a run for -2 yards.

At some point he will need to adapt his offense to the rigors of physical big time football. I know he went 34-6 at Cinci, but they played warm-ups before the rigors of the Big East season, which isn't as tough as what ND plays. With Swarbrick beefing up the schhedule the sledding will only get tougher.
It is time to bring some physicality back to the gridiron.

I have seen statements like this alot in the past two days. Kelly may seem stubborn, but that is because he has won at every level with this system. The debate over toughness of schedule is funny. The " rigors of the Big East " have kicked our *** over the past few years under Charlie. Uconn, Syracuse, Pitt all beat us. I am feeling as crappy as the rest of us, but is is really that last 4 coaches fault that these 4 star athletes are not performing. LSU has one of the worse coaches in football and they still win. I think it is time to put alittle more blame on the players and their execution.

 

[TinyT]

I have seen statements like this alot in the past two days. Kelly may seem stubborn, but that is because he has won at every level with this system. The debate over toughness of schedule is funny. The " rigors of the Big East " have kicked our *** over the past few years under Charlie. Uconn, Syracuse, Pitt all beat us.

We have all seen and heard the "stay the course", "he's done it before", "let him get his players in the system" comments before with past regimes. Florida, once the darling of college football, two NC's in the past few years, is struggling not for lack of talent, not because Urban forgot how to coach...they are struggling because they lost their fullback/quarterback combo. They lost their physicality, and now they are trying to rely to much on speed, and have failed. Texas has no running game, not working out too well.

I am not saying his plan won't work, I'm just saying some adaptation is going to be needed. This team will need some vertical power running to keep defenses honest in addition to some delays, draws and misdirections.

The Big East teams didn't kick our butts these past few years...they beat us, they won the game. Yesterday, we got our butts kicked in all facets of the game...we received a true beatdown, at the hands of Navy.

We didn't score in the beginning, for lack of power...Our early runs went for small or no gains because Navy was ready for our side to side running attack. It wasn't until they started dropping seven and eight defenders until our running attack gained ground. Misdirection is potent, when properly executed and combined with straightforward power runs and a complementary passing game. It isn't the players...they are all good, it is scheme. I have no problem with the majority of the scheme, I just think a little adaptation is needed...and I have thought this since the hire.

There needs to be some power running ability!!