Is Dayne Crist the Problem?

[KPENN]

Are you suggesting this thread was started by Justin Bieber?

Sadly I think he would have made more sense and would have come across as less of a moron

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I watched the play again just so I could make that comment. Also the Eifert TD.

Floyd didn't have the guy completely beat when Crist threw the ball. It's not unreasonable to think that it was a deliberate come back.

As for the Eifert TD, Crist rolled right into the blitz and did a great job making the rusher miss. After that, he kept running. Watching it on video, it seems like he could have thrown it about half a second earlier. However, Crist had a very different view of the play. There would have been no way for him to know that the blitzer had been picked up* after he juked him. He kept rolling out to create a little separation in-case the guy was going to be able to swat the ball away. It was only a free TD after Crist identified the blitz and made the guy miss. (It starts at about 9:20.)

Wow dude. How did you find that so fast? I'll add my one cent: Disagree with your analysis of the Floyd TD. Floyd clearly had the defender burned on the post pattern. Crist underthrough, but admittedly, that is one hell of a tough throw at such a distance to hit a guy in stride. Still, THEY SCORED!

Your analysis of the Eifert TD seems spot on.


military, it's just you. You are the only hot one on here.

 

[military_irish]

Wow dude. How did you find that so fast? I'll add my one cent: Disagree with your analysis of the Floyd TD. Floyd clearly had the defender burned on the post pattern. Crist underthrough, but admittedly, that is one hell of a tough throw at such a distance to hit a guy in stride. Still, THEY SCORED!

Your analysis of the Eifert TD seems spot on.


military, it's just you. You are the only hot one on here.

Yeah i think they need to install a fan in here with all the vbuck taxation going on around here

 

[NDinL.A.]

Just got home. I thought Crist's play was maddening today. He is still extremely inconsistent and misses wide open guys way too much. And then he throws gorgeous frozen ropes and you remember what a talent he is.

The problem I have with the OP is the finality of his tone. As if a guy who has SEVEN CAREER STARTS is branded as never having the chance to be good for ND. That's simply ridiculous, and quite frankly, stupid. Let him friggin develop. Give him a damn chance. He's much better than anything else we have, and I believe he'll eventually be a stud for us. Hell, even in his first year in this offense, coming off an ACL injury, he's still putting up some very good numbers all things considered. And he'll win more games this year than JC ever won in a year at ND, and he was a beast.

Lots of people asking for this thread to be closed, but it's brought up some good discussion. If it keeps getting personal, we'll close it...

 

[mgriff]

Just got home. I thought Crist's play was maddening today. He is still extremely inconsistent and misses wide open guys way too much. And then he throws gorgeous frozen ropes and you remember what a talent he is.

The problem I have with the OP is the finality of his tone. As if a guy who has SEVEN CAREER STARTS is branded as never having the chance to be good for ND. That's simply ridiculous, and quite frankly, stupid. Let him friggin develop. Give him a damn chance. He's much better than anything else we have, and I believe he'll eventually be a stud for us. Hell, even in his first year in this offense, coming off an ACL injury, he's still putting up some very good numbers all things considered. And he'll win more games this year than JC ever won in a year at ND, and he was a beast.

Lots of people asking for this thread to be closed, but it's brought up some good discussion. If it keeps getting personal, we'll close it...

I have to agree with this. Maddening is the perfect word to describe Dayne's play. He obviously has all the tools, and while I'm not ready to pass judgment, I expected him to improve a bit more by now. I may simply have been spoiled by JC. This is the game where I really thought he would have his coming out party and make all the throws. He didn't, but he is by far the best we have. He didn't look bad, but he didn't look great. I would really like to see him put it all together in one of the next two games. I do realize, however, that my expectations or thoughts on Dayne Crist will not define him as a player. He has all the tools and is performing well enough, but time will tell if he can take the next step and be great.

 

[TerryTate]

7 career starts. Compare this to Clausen's first 7 games...

 

[JJRott]

Looking back on the losses...They have up around 1000 combined yards to MSU and Michigan.

and 0 wins....

 

[Dizzyphil]

Dayne Crist, QB ND 261 155 59.4 1855 7.1 95 14 5 15 133.0

Crist has a rating of 133.0, 59.4% pass completion and 14 TDs with 5 picks.

On the other side, Crist has been sacked 15 times and I also remember a lot of drops throughout the season.

Crist is fine as a first year starter and learning a new system.

"Focker out"

Diz

 

[lookingdeadred]

Not a Crist fan I see

Not a Crist fan I see

Seriously, he is not as good as he needs to be, but he is nowhere near as bad as you make him out to be.

As for that "brutally underthrown ball" to Floyd, I don't claim to know if he meant to underthrow it or not, but underthrowing in that situation is not a bad play. The receiver usually sees the underthrow first and reacts to it, getting the catch and or a pass interefernce penalty, especially if the receiver is significantly bigger than the DB, like Floyd is. As for some of his other passes, yes, Crist did miss some open guys, he was not particularly sharp yesterday, but to declare him a bust as you certainly are implying, is way premature.

After the Purdue game I said Dayne's accuracy was a serious problem and people criticized me for a variety of things and I simply let it go. Now, six weeks later, it's time to face facts. Dayne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. His TD throw to Floyd was brutally under thrown, he missed numerous wide open receivers, and even the announcers were commenting on this. The problem with this team isn't the receivers, the line or even the defence - it's the quarterback. We haven't had a quarterback play this poorly since Quinn's first season, and maybe earlier.

Pinning the losses to UM and MSU on Crist's is ridiculous. The offense did enough to win both games. Look to the defense for the blame for those losses.

Look back at the losses and think what would have happened with one or two more accurate throws. We're 5-1 going into this week if Dayne is an accurate QB. How many easy throws has he missed?

You actually believe that BK is not trying to address Crist's inconsistencies? Really?

As for the QBs behind Crist, I share your concern. Montana is not a college QB. As for Hendrix and Rees, time will tell. Neither were highly sought last year, and, as you say, no QB is coming in next year. But BK's track record finding and developing QBs is very good.

Oh, and by the way, Crist will probably be the QB in 2012, not Hendrix, unless Crist has a monster season in 2011 and decides it is time to go pro. If that turns out to be the case, I don't think ND fans would be that upset.

People need to stop making silly jokes with his name and realize his accuracy is a serious problem and it's holding this team back in a big way. The big concern is that we haven't addressed this issue at all. We have no QBs coming in this year and the recruits from last year are largely caretakers.

So come 2012, we have Andrew Hendrix leading the team against a crucible of a schedule and Dayne tossing balls around with no accuracy until then. Really hard to think things are looking up right now ...

 

[military_irish]

Seriously, he is not as good as he needs to be, but he is nowhere near as bad as you make him out to be.

As for that "brutally underthrown ball" to Floyd, I don't claim to know if he meant to underthrow it or not, but underthrowing in that situation is not a bad play. The receiver usually sees the underthrow first and reacts to it, getting the catch and or a pass interefernce penalty, especially if the receiver is significantly bigger than the DB, like Floyd is. As for some of his other passes, yes, Crist did miss some open guys, he was not particularly sharp yesterday, but to declare him a bust as you certainly are implying, is way premature.

Pinning the losses to UM and MSU on Crist's is ridiculous. The offense did enough to win both games. Look to the defense for the blame for those losses.




You actually believe that BK is not trying to address Crist's inconsistencies? Really?

As for the QBs behind Crist, I share your concern. Montana is not a college QB. As for Hendrix and Rees, time will tell. Neither were highly sought last year, and, as you say, no QB is coming in next year. But BK's track record finding and developing QBs is very good.

Oh, and by the way, Crist will probably be the QB in 2012, not Hendrix, unless Crist has a monster season in 2011 and decides it is time to go pro. If that turns out to be the case, I don't think ND fans would be that upset.

Just one minor point Hendrix was highly sought by Ohio St., Florida, and Miami(FL) and a few other major programs. So he has the talent. But time will tell

 

[lookingdeadred]

weak link

weak link

Inconsistent OL play for one. Lack of a consistent pass rush is another. Both are far more troubling than your perceived issues with Crist.

This is the kind of nonsense that makes this forum scary. Unless you are a Pollyanna believe in ND no matter what you are a troll. Dayne threw for 250+ today - awesome. He also missed several throws I could have made (the roll out miss to Floyd was really bad,

If the pass interfernce does not happen on that play, Floyd makes the catch. Bottom line, the pass was fine, very catchable ball.

I am not sure what your problems are with Crist, but your criticisms are mostly irrational. So don't act so surprised when others call you out for them.

the should have been pass interference tofloyd wouldn't have mattered if the pass wasn't far too high to a wide open receiver etc). And let's not forget this was a really bad team. If Dayne isn't the weak link, what is?

 

[DCirishfan]

After the Purdue game I said Dayne's accuracy was a serious problem and people criticized me for a variety of things and I simply let it go. Now, six weeks later, it's time to face facts. Dayne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. His TD throw to Floyd was brutally under thrown, he missed numerous wide open receivers, and even the announcers were commenting on this. The problem with this team isn't the receivers, the line or even the defence - it's the quarterback. We haven't had a quarterback play this poorly since Quinn's first season, and maybe earlier.

Look back at the losses and think what would have happened with one or two more accurate throws. We're 5-1 going into this week if Dayne is an accurate QB. How many easy throws has he missed?

People need to stop making silly jokes with his name and realize his accuracy is a serious problem and it's holding this team back in a big way. The big concern is that we haven't addressed this issue at all. We have no QBs coming in this year and the recruits from last year are largely caretakers.

So come 2012, we have Andrew Hendrix leading the team against a crucible of a schedule and Dayne tossing balls around with no accuracy until then. Really hard to think things are looking up right now ...

Dayne Crist has a ways to go. I believe by the end of they year his accuracy will be better. But you are right that he is missing a ton of plays right now. I would give him a B grade on his year thus far.

 

[aubeirish]

Give the kid some time. He'll get there.

 

[NDRISE]

I will agree with you Dayne is not accurate at all. This last game showed ND's true colors and thus far it has not been a rose picture. I honestly doubt Nd will make it past Utah and USC. this team could go 6-6 this year.

 

[TerryTate]

I will agree with you Dayne is not accurate at all. This last game showed ND's true colors and thus far it has not been a rose picture. I honestly doubt Nd will make it past Utah and USC. this team could go 6-6 this year.

Who would be the 6th loss?

I think we're going to come out fresh on Utah after they get into some rough games with Air Force and TCU. USC is going down. F'ing losers.

 

[ryno 24]

No, it is time to admit that you have a serious problem forming a rational thought. 18 of 28, 255 yds and 3 td's, yea that's a problem. Also a guy that has completed nearly 60% of his passes, thrown for over 1800 yards and 14 scores, not to mention a few running td's, through the first 7 games of his college career, all while learning a system he has never played before. The real problem is this site allowing posts like that one.
Good post and i agree one hundred percent Crist is doing one hundred percent better than Jimmys first year... and Jimmy turned out to be pretty good

 

[bigedefense]

you know i agree with you most of the time, and we have no problems. But teaching someone to tell time, is not the same. In the sense that, I am sure they call plays that the offense as a whole can run. So if in practice they run it perfectly and score everytime. Then they get in the game and have a hard time to fully run the play the way it is meant to be run, I can fully understand why BK would get on their case.

And you can't coddle players if you want the most out of them, maybe it's just the military coming out in me. But if a player messes up and you speak to them softly and tell them everything will be ok next time, they won't get the idea. But if you get into them real good, next time they are presented with a similiar situation they will have that voice in the back of their head knowing what to do.

Just my two cents.

I agree with what you say as far as being able to run it in practice and not being able to run it in the game. It is very puzzling to a coach. However, a good coach has to know the mindset of each player on his team. You will have some that excell when they are "yelled at". On the other hand, you will have some that will begin to play to not mess up again. Having said that, Dayne seems to be taking it well, so maybe thats the way he needs to be coached up. I do not agree with Military Irish on yelling at players because you are at a certain level of the game. Look at the truly successful coaches and they only yelled at a few players and only rarely. Tony Dungy comes to mind in the NFL, and as bad as it pains me to say (or type) it, Pete Carrol in college. They yelled sometimes, but they pulled the player to them and had one on one disucssions more. Just my opinions.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

After the Purdue game I said Dayne's accuracy was a serious problem and people criticized me for a variety of things and I simply let it go. Now, six weeks later, it's time to face facts. Dayne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. His TD throw to Floyd was brutally under thrown, he missed numerous wide open receivers, and even the announcers were commenting on this. The problem with this team isn't the receivers, the line or even the defence - it's the quarterback. We haven't had a quarterback play this poorly since Quinn's first season, and maybe earlier.

Woo. Do you remember 2007? Saying Dayne is the worst QB since Quinns first year is ridiculous. You also don't know if that ball was supposed to be underthrown? Sure, hes missed wide open recievers, but our recievers have had the case of the droppsies.

Look back at the losses and think what would have happened with one or two more accurate throws. We're 5-1 going into this week if Dayne is an accurate QB. How many easy throws has he missed?

What if Floyd didn't fumble against MSU? Hasn't Teo Riddick missed some balls? The offense as a whole has had some growing pains.

People need to stop making silly jokes with his name and realize his accuracy is a serious problem and it's holding this team back in a big way. The big concern is that we haven't addressed this issue at all. We have no QBs coming in this year and the recruits from last year are largely caretakers.

Why not let the kid grow? If he blows it against Utah and SC, then maybe. He's in a new offense with a new coach. Give him a shot. He has absolutely done NOTHING to lose any games.

So come 2012, we have Andrew Hendrix leading the team against a crucible of a schedule and Dayne tossing balls around with no accuracy until then. Really hard to think things are looking up right now ...

Dayne Crist, by the time Utah comes to town, will be much improved, as will the team as a whole. Things aren't looking up? What did you expect coming into the season? Maybe your expectations were a little inflated. I am seeing a team that gets better each week, is aggresive, and fights. Not to mention fundamentally sound.

 

[Lou Holtz]

its is his first year in a new system what do you expect?

 

[IrishInColumbus]

Dayne Crist's RS-Sophomore season (his first year starting):

completed 59.4% of his passes
1,855 yards (on pace for 3,180)
14 touchdowns (on pace for 25)
5 interceptions (on pace for 9)
132.95 QB rating

Jimmy Clausen's Sophomore season (his second year starting):

completed 60.9% of his passes
3,172 yards
24 touchdowns
17 interceptions
132.49 QB rating

Almost identical seasons. Crist is on pace to be a great QB, relax. He is a first-year starter, of course he has stuff to work on. Outside of grasping this immensely complex system, he needs to work on his footwork when he is outside of the pocket. But it's not like any of his problems aren't manageable.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I agree with what you say as far as being able to run it in practice and not being able to run it in the game. It is very puzzling to a coach. However, a good coach has to know the mindset of each player on his team. You will have some that excell when they are "yelled at". On the other hand, you will have some that will begin to play to not mess up again. Having said that, Dayne seems to be taking it well, so maybe thats the way he needs to be coached up. I do not agree with Military Irish on yelling at players because you are at a certain level of the game. Look at the truly successful coaches and they only yelled at a few players and only rarely. Tony Dungy comes to mind in the NFL, and as bad as it pains me to say (or type) it, Pete Carrol in college. They yelled sometimes, but they pulled the player to them and had one on one disucssions more. Just my opinions.

On the yelling...I have absolutely no problem with it. This is big-boy football; if you can't handle it shouldn't be playing.

As a coach, you have to be real to yourself. If you're a fiery guy and a yeller, then yell. If you're a cerebral coach, then be cerebral. For every Tony Dungy (who couldn't win the big one for YEARS), there is a Bill Parcells. Whatever works for you, you should do. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Shoot, we had the non-yeller, stoic type, and he was a disaster (Ty Golfingham).

If Brain Kelly wins, I have no problem whatsoever with him getting after his players on or off-camera. (And you'll notice, he's quick to praise players when they do well. That's important...)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Because he can be Jekyll or Hyde at this stage of his career, people are going to split [not spit] on him. He's great/he's terrible. Actually he's neither one. He's a young talent of tremendous promise who is carrying a huge burden of learning coupled with inexperience. And he has a coach who knows it, and says EVERYTIME to the media that they're holding back a lot of the offense until Dayne gets more comfortable with it. On some things Dayne's there. On some things he is very confused. [by the way, Dayne cannot possibly be the only guy on NDs offense who is occasionally confused--we should not be so sure that every failure is his fault]. That's what we're seeing. I wonder how many other QBs in his situation would be any different. Each of us has a choice [which,by the way, will disturb the rest of the Universe's path not one Planck length---except others on the board who choose to get their testosterone up and start hurling epithets]: we can see Crist as an arrested development who will never be good enough for us, or we can see him as teaming with Kelly on an upward path of evolution to being a great ND leader. I'm trusting Crist to get there. I'm trusting Kelly even more. He's climbed that mountain successfully many times.

This was beautiful OldManMike. Everybody on both sides should reread this. Twice. You might as well blame or disparage the spread as DC. And the one thing no one has mentioned about Kelly's spread is that every player is responsible for calling, making, or performing reads based upon coming to the line of scrimmage. I would like to see some hot stuff come in cold and be able to make those split-second decisions. The only things I could see that stood out at this point were a couple of footwork problems.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Kind of like a chainsaw . . . bunch of parts moving together, all in different directions, at once, with great violence . . .

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I rewatched some of the first half of yesterday's game. Dayne actually looked pretty good. One of the passes he threw that looked kind of bad was actually tipped.

 

[kmoose]

After the Purdue game I said Dayne's accuracy was a serious problem and people criticized me for a variety of things and I simply let it go.

As well we should have criticized you. Crist was 19 of 26 passing, in the Purdue game. That's 73%. So for you to come in and say that a kid completing 73% of his passes is "a serious problem ", the criticism of your statement was warranted.

Just like for you to now say,

Now, six weeks later, it's time to face facts. Dayne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. The problem with this team isn't the receivers, the line or even the defence - it's the quarterback. We haven't had a quarterback play this poorly since Quinn's first season, and maybe earlier.

You have to be out of your mind, to think that a 60% (59.4) completion percentage equates to "couldn't hit the broad side of a barn." You have a point, that he has made some really bad throws, but he has made some really nice ones, too. Go back and look at the laser he threw to Rudolph, on Rudolph's 95 yard TD. That was a frozen rope, 25+ yards downfield. Crist certainly has some flaws, and has a long way to go, to measure up to Clausen and Quinn. But your emotional outbursts about Crist's 60% completion percentage being "the problem with this team" overshadows, and drowns out, any valid point you might be making. How long have you been watching football? Because it sure doesn't seem like you know a whole lot about it.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Your responses are hilarious. The issue isn't whether or not it's a completion, it's whether it was a good throw. Take a look at the fade TD to Floyd a couple of weeks ago. Based on the ridiculous logic you people are using, it was a good throw because it was a completion. If any of you think it was a good throw you're an absolute idiot and have no business making any commentary about football.

This is a pass happy offence, if we're going to be successful we have to to have a good quarterback making good accurate throws. Saying Dayne is playing well is a total joke.

 

[kmoose]

Your responses are hilarious. The issue isn't whether or not it's a completion, it's whether it was a good throw. Take a look at the fade TD to Floyd a couple of weeks ago. Based on the ridiculous logic you people are using, it was a good throw because it was a completion. If any of you think it was a good throw you're an absolute idiot and have no business making any commentary about football.

This is a pass happy offence, if we're going to be successful we have to to have a good quarterback making good accurate throws. Saying Dayne is playing well is a total joke.

Now I'm REALLY starting to question how long you have been watching football. It's not whether or not Dayne is a great QB. You've come on here making outrageous claims about Crist's accuracy. If his accuracy is so bad, then please explain to me how a guy "who can't hit the broad side of a barn" is completing 60% of his passes, through 7 games? If you want to say that this team would be a much better team, if Crist's accuracy was more consistent, then I am willing to listen. But what's ridiculous is to say that Crist's play is "the problem with this team".

 

[KPENN]

Your responses are hilarious. The issue isn't whether or not it's a completion, it's whether it was a good throw. Take a look at the fade TD to Floyd a couple of weeks ago. Based on the ridiculous logic you people are using, it was a good throw because it was a completion. If any of you think it was a good throw you're an absolute idiot and have no business making any commentary about football.

This is a pass happy offence, if we're going to be successful we have to to have a good quarterback making good accurate throws. Saying Dayne is playing well is a total joke.

No your the idiot

 

[Old Man Mike]

Let the season tell. Let it go. ... or, as an option, glucocorticoid therapy is often effective in excess testosterone situations.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This is a pass happy offence, if we're going to be successful we have to to have a good quarterback making good accurate throws. Saying Dayne is playing well is a total joke.

Actually, we have a greater need to develop an effective running game. Crist is following Clauson's '07 track, except he is throwing about half the interceptions. That is good enough. Especially with how much more difficult the current offense is to run for a first year starter.

About the idiot part, I can tell you that kmoose is not an idiot; he is at least an imbecile, maybe even a moron. He has too much intelligence for you to classify him as an idiot!

Seriously, kmoose may be a little passionate about his Irish football, but if you noticed, he never actually called you a name. Questioned your sanity? Sanity is not an issue, your hanging with us now bud . . .