Les Miles & Rich Rod

[IrishinSyria]

anther tough d next week in iowa. then traveling to penn state.

I do not envy michigan fans right now. i dont like talking trash especially because the two michigan fans that post on this board are pretty respectful. but dang you guys got a tough tough road ahead.

just saw that iowa had a bye week this week giving them an extra week of michigan prep. ouchh

Completely agree. I don't like talking trash but right now, I'm much happier as an Irish fan than I would be as a Michigan fan. I think they're going to be in for a pretty bitter end to their season (though Penn State is also pretty bad this year. If they win that, 7-5 is possible).

 

[phork]

Maybe this Hart kid can play CB as well. Its funny how these 2 teams are so similar. Weis comes in and cleans up, recruits well and restocks the cabinet, at least offensively. And it ends up being the defense that gets him fired. I'm not so sure RichRod is safe, even at 8-4 with losses to OSU and MSU. 4-14 in the Big10 in 3 years is not Michigan football.

 

[IrishLax]

Maybe this Hart kid can play CB as well. Its funny how these 2 teams are so similar. Weis comes in and cleans up, recruits well and restocks the cabinet, at least offensively. And it ends up being the defense that gets him fired. I'm not so sure RichRod is safe, even at 8-4 with losses to OSU and MSU. 4-14 in the Big10 in 3 years is not Michigan football.

Exactly. He is gone if they lose to OSU by a lot + two more.

 

[Wolverine1997]

Exactly. He is gone if they lose to OSU by a lot + two more.

That State loss really pissed me off. ESPECIALLY PUNTING WITH 4 MINUTES LEFT BASICALLY SURRENDERING IN OUR HOUSE!!!!

I want a win or at least a FIGHT til the end against Iowa.

Iowa- L
At PSU- W
Illinois- W
At Purdue- W
Wisconsin- L
OSU- L

I think if he leaves, Harbaugh comes back home. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Irish Man3]

I would be careful putting that Illinois game as an automatic win. They have looked really well in the last few weeks and their offense will give Michigan fits.

I was also a little suprised to see the wolverines surrender in their own house to their "little brother." IMO, we have not seen the worst for Michigan. The best thing Michigan could do at this point would be to bring Harbaugh in and give him 5 years to get his personel installed. Inside those five years, Michigan should falter much like any school would while putting in new systems.

 

[Wolverine1997]

I would be careful putting that Illinois game as an automatic win. They have looked really well in the last few weeks and their offense will give Michigan fits.

I was also a little suprised to see the wolverines surrender in their own house to their "little brother." IMO, we have not seen the worst for Michigan. The best thing Michigan could do at this point would be to bring Harbaugh in and give him 5 years to get his personel installed. Inside those five years, Michigan should falter much like any school would while putting in new systems.

Oh I know Illinois is hot team right now, but I really can't see us losing a third straight to the zookers. Then again, I never thought I'd live to see MSU beat us three, hell, two in a row hwhateve

It is easier to transition from a spread to a pro style offense though. ESPECIALLY with that schedule we have next season.

9/3 WMU
9/10 ND (night game)
9/17 EMU
9/24 San Diego State
10/1 Minnesota
10/8 At Northwestern
10/15 At Michigan State
10/22 Bye week
10/29 Purdue
11/5 At Iowa
11/12 At Illinois
11/19 Nebraska
11/26 Ohio State

The worst we could do IMO is probably 7-5.

 

[Wolverine1997]

IMO, we have not seen the worst for Michigan.

YouTube - Michigan Football 2008: Earning Their Wings

This was the most painful season I've ever witnessed and I hope nobody ever has to see another Michigan season like that.

 

[IrishinSyria]

ahh... the game of Many Fumbles. That was my first time watching a game from the student section, I think.

 

[IrishLax]

That State loss really pissed me off. ESPECIALLY PUNTING WITH 4 MINUTES LEFT BASICALLY SURRENDERING IN OUR HOUSE!!!!

I want a win or at least a FIGHT til the end against Iowa.

Iowa- L
At PSU- W
Illinois- W
At Purdue- W
Wisconsin- L
OSU- L

I think if he leaves, Harbaugh comes back home. Just a gut feeling.

That's my gut too... and that scares the **** out of me. There are few coaches I put on par with Kelly, but Harbaugh took a school from 1-11 to a solid bowl team with major victories in 3 years... and now they are on the cusp of a BCS run. He built that team from the ground up... and they have some of the strictest academic requirements in the country.

Rich Rod? Well, he has made Michigan completely uncompetitive against elite competition. Remember when Loyd Carr took an unranked Michigan and beat #9 Florida in a bowl the year before Rich Rod took over?

Seems like ages ago... and it was only 2 years and change.

 

[Irish Man3]

Do you think Denard Robinson or Tate Forcier can run a pro style offense? Do you think their offensive line can block for a pro style offense after RR putting in his zone blocking schemes. It is very difficult to go from a RR offense to ANY offense, but especially a pro style offense.
Im not saying it just because I dont like Michigan, I just think we've seen first hand throughout the country how hard it is to change coaches and schemes and be successful within 3 years.

 

[IrishLax]

Do you think Denard Robinson or Tate Forcier can run a pro style offense? Do you think their offensive line can block for a pro style offense after RR putting in his zone blocking schemes. It is very difficult to go from a RR offense to ANY offense, but especially a pro style offense.
Im not saying it just because I dont like Michigan, I just think we've seen first hand throughout the country how hard it is to change coaches and schemes and be successful within 3 years.

Hell no, but I have faith that in 2 years Harbaugh could have a team playing well regardless of the personnel he was given. Look what he did with ZERO talent given to him at Stanford. And you're ignoring Devin Gardner... who is LIGHTYEARS better than DR as a true QB.

Harbaugh would come in and have the defense fixed in two seasons. I guarantee that. And I really don't think Michigan's offense is that good, it's simply super effective against weak/slow teams.

 

[Irish Man3]

Devin Gardner is not a pro style qb either and whats to say he stays if RR leaves. I think we have already seen the amount of transfers that can take place when a coaching change happens. Harbaugh is a damn good coach but it is a little unfair to say that Stanford had NO talent when he arrived.
All Im saying is that turning Devin, Tate, or DR into a pro style qb would be difficult. The difference between a spread offensive line and a pro style offensive line is huge.

 

[Wolverine1997]

Hell no, but I have faith that in 2 years Harbaugh could have a team playing well regardless of the personnel he was given. Look what he did with ZERO talent given to him at Stanford. And you're ignoring Devin Gardner... who is LIGHTYEARS better than DR as a true QB.

Harbaugh would come in and have the defense fixed in two seasons. I guarantee that. And I really don't think Michigan's offense is that good, it's simply super effective against weak/slow teams.

Gardner is going to be a monster out there once he matures.

[sig change in 3...2...1...]

 

[Bogtrotter07]

OOPS! Two in a row, Robinsons hurt (Great kid, everyone saw it coming), and no one else can keep them in the game with a lack of appreciable defense. Wow, you would think that someone would have seen this coming . . .

 

[IrishLax]

Let's hope UM starts winning soon so that Harbaugh goes to the 49ers instead of the University of Autoworkers.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

They won't fire RichRod yet, and Harbaugh will never go to the UofM. He wants to coach in the NFL, and he likes the west coast. What is the reason for him to leave Stanford until the NFL thing comes through?

 

[IrishLax]

They won't fire RichRod yet, and Harbaugh will never go to the UofM. He wants to coach in the NFL, and he likes the west coast. What is the reason for him to leave Stanford until the NFL thing comes through?

I feel the complete opposite but I have nothing to base that on besides gut feeling. He wants the NFL, sure, but he'll take Michigan or the 49ers job over Stanford in a heartbeat.

1. He's an alum.
2. Michigan is a better job than Stanford.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I respect your gut. And mine is a gut too; except that Jim Harbaugh has been incredibly vocally critical about the academic standards in place for the UM football players. There have been some (really extreme) hard feelings and some serious and powerful alum have been pissed-off. I believe, as with most major programs, the alumni are so arrogant that they would cut off their noses, to spite their faces. If that means blacklisting one of the great upcoming coaches of his time, so be it. Not like UM has ever blacklisted anyone that pissed them off.

The worst situation for a Harbaugh, UM hire would be if Stanford and Michigan State met in the Rose Bowl, and Stanford dismantled the Spartans. Then ther'd be some splainin' to do.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

OH. and PS. Have you ever seen Stanford's campus? Now that football is relevant, the crowds are there, too. So I am not sure I would put the UM job as more desirable from every perspective. There is plenty of money, with a lot less expectations. If I am waiting for an NFL job, what better environment is there? Sitting back and picking of SC, idyllic campus, good school, fairly low expectations. What more could a coach want?

 

[IrishLax]

OH. and PS. Have you ever seen Stanford's campus? Now that football is relevant, the crowds are there, too. So I am not sure I would put the UM job as more desirable from every perspective. There is plenty of money, with a lot less expectations. If I am waiting for an NFL job, what better environment is there? Sitting back and picking of SC, idyllic campus, good school, fairly low expectations. What more could a coach want?

Yes, I have seen Stanford's campus. I saw it this summer when I took a road trip with some friends to move them out to the west coast (one is going to Stanford for his Ph.D in Chemistry and the other is getting his masters in accounting at USC). The campus is gorgeous... almost reminds me of a red-er or kinda Spanish style Notre Dame. And the golf course was just... wow.

I'll address the rest of your points at work.

 

[IrishLax]

There are tiers of schools when it comes to college football:

Tier 1 - Traditional Powers - Notre Dame, Michigan, Alabama, Texas, Nebraska and not many more besides these. These are the best jobs in football because of the prestige, pay and exposure.

Tier 2 - Football Factories - Oklahoma, LSU, Florida, FSU, Georgia, etc. These are the kind of jobs that pay well but don't have the same prestige as Tier 1 schools. This is why Bob Stoops, Mark Richt, etc. were talked about in the ND coaching search.

Tier 3 - Reasonable Expectations - Iowa, Stanford, Oregon, etc. These are the schools that have never been perennial powers so the alumni are totally content with making bowl games and going 8-4. Definitely the cushiest jobs in college football where you can still compete for a NC... but they don't pay nearly as well as Tier 1/2 schools and don't have close to the same prestige.

Tier 4 - Also-rans - Northwestern, Arizona, Baylor, TCU, Utah, etc. These are schools that might compete under a certain coach but are doomed to mediocrity in the long run. Coaches use them as stepping stones or as a lifelong destination depending on their persona. Every single coach at also-ran dreams of coaching at a Tier 1/2 school OR retiring at their also-ran.

Tier 5 - Crappy schools - we all know who they are... and they are simply rungs on the ladder to better positions.


Hopefully you agree with me on these tiers. To argue that Stanford is not a Tier 3 school or that Michigan is not a Tier 1 school is to be ignorant of history. People like Harbaugh played/lived through when Michigan was a perennial power and Stanford was a perennial laughing stock. Heck, as soon as 4 years ago that was the case before Rich Rod drove UM into the ground and Harbaugh built up Stanford.

My contention is that any coach - unless they seriously think they have no chance to win immediately at the higher tier school and are auditioning for the pros... which I admit could be the case with Harbaugh - will upgrade tiers if given a reasonable opportunity/conditions to do so. That is why Lane Kiffin never blinked an eye going to USC nor did Rich Rod blink an eye going to UM nor did Brian Kelly blink an eye going from CM to Cinci to ND. Coaches (mostly) aim to use the lower tiers as rungs on the coaching ladder. And Stanford is nothing more than a middle rung.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Dude, I agree with everything you say. I mean look at the detail in your description of the tiers, and the logic you put into deciding what school went where. Have you ever thought that maybe you have too much time on your hands?

Seriously, I have to see Oklahoma having the longest and third (or fourth) longest winning streak in college football as first tier.

You listed Northwestern but not Ohio State? That must be ND Envy; I suffer from it too!

And of course the only other thing is with the number of schollarships dwindling, there may be some long term shifts toward rich schools (Stanford), or schools that can offer tons of academic schollarships (LSU).

 

[IrishLax]

Dude, I agree with everything you say. I mean look at the detail in your description of the tiers, and the logic you put into deciding what school went where. Have you ever thought that maybe you have too much time on your hands?

Seriously, I have to see Oklahoma having the longest and third (or fourth) longest winning streak in college football as first tier.

You listed Northwestern but not Ohio State? That must be ND Envy; I suffer from it too!

And of course the only other thing is with the number of schollarships dwindling, there may be some long term shifts toward rich schools (Stanford), or schools that can offer tons of academic schollarships (LSU).

Yes, I am putting off writing a bunch of Non-Disclosure Agreements at work lol

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I thought so; I won't say a word!