Why don't we have our own officiating crew?

[G_Rob_B]

Not to say that we lose solely because of officiating, but the integrity of the rules should be upheld. When an entire crew misses a blatant defensive offsides by Stanford, I lose all confidence in the belief that the officiating is unbiased. Same with the third down spot that Stanford got, which was challenged.

It is supposed to be home field advantage right? Don't we have officials for the blue and gold game? Is it really cost? If we can't have our own crew, why not use a conference's that we do not play?

 

[jason_h537]

because we are independant, Officials work for conferences, we have no conference for them to work for

 

[G_Rob_B]

Does the NCAA prevent us from hiring our own crew? That still does not explain why we use the visiting team's officiating crew. Why not use a MAC, WAC, Sun Belt, Mountain West, heck Big Ten (when we aren't playing a Big 10 team)?

 

[jason_h537]

i think its negotiated upon when u schedule a team.

 

[zemaniak]

ok, then, how about using a few non-playing scholarship players to knock the refs teeth in after the game when they screw us

 

[McInator]

This is a ridiculous thread. Especially after a game in which we were never in.

 

[G_Rob_B]

As I wrote earlier, this is not about why we lost. The issue is about upholding the rules. At a minimum, officials should uphold the rules. Officials should not be dictating the outcome of a drive, let along a game. But nevertheless, whether it is incompetence or partiality on the official's part, the issue of officiating at home games has come up in previous seasons. Why not eliminate the possibility of partiality if possible?

 

[Junkhead]

This is a ridiculous thread. Especially after a game in which we were never in.

I don't think it's a ridiculous thread at all. What are the NCAA rules regarding officials? We are always facing officiating crews from hostile conferences. Whether we want to admit it or not, most of the college football world hates ND, and would love to see us suck it up. Too many bad calls over the years makes this question legit.

 

[zemaniak]

it would be great to have our own refs.

we could dress them up as leprechauns, would show that they would be as unbiased as the refs from our opponents

 

[McInator]

I don't think it's a ridiculous thread at all. What are the NCAA rules regarding officials? We are always facing officiating crews from hostile conferences. Whether we want to admit it or not, most of the college football world hates ND, and would love to see us suck it up. Too many bad calls over the years makes this question legit.

Yeah dude. Everyone hates us. That is why we have our own tv contract. Give me a break. Talking about the officials after game like this is akin to the Germans complaining about their boot shine boy the day after the Normandy invasion.

 

[jason_h537]

we could dress them up as leprechauns,

only if in between plays they broke into dance

 

[Junkhead]

Yeah dude. Everyone hates us. That is why we have our own tv contract. Give me a break.

Most fans of other teams hate us purely for the fact of our TV coverage and exposure. ND is a story win or lose, but fact is that most people are happy when we lose. Dispute that?

 

[McInator]

Most fans of other teams hate us purely for the fact of our TV coverage and exposure. ND is a story win or lose, but fact is that most people are happy when we lose. Dispute that?

I dispute that it has anything to do with officials. If the officiating was screwing us (it isn't) then we should join a conference. Thinking we could bring our own officials to our own games is beyond a ridiculous suggestion or even a bit#h point.

 

[Junkhead]

I dispute that it has anything to do with officials. If the officiating was screwing us (it isn't) then we should join a conference. Thinking we could bring our own officials to our own games is beyond a ridiculous suggestion or even a bit#h point.

It may not be likely, but if we are worthy of our own TV contract, it's worth discussing. Why do we always have to face officials from hostile conferences? It's a discussion, so join in, or step off.....

 

[G_Rob_B]

McInator, clearly you have reading comprehension issues so I will make myself clear. Notre Dame did not lose against Stanford because of bad officiating. The purpose of this thread is not about why Notre Dame lost to Stanford. This is not an excuse to explain why Notre Dame lost to Stanford.

I would like to believe that everybody would agree that officials should enforce the rules. Officials that do not can be incompetent (similar to McInator's understanding), or partial. If we can eliminate the possibility of partiality, specifically partiality against Notre Dame, it would be a good thing. Understandably there may be issues relating to the appearance of impropriety by paying officials directly to officiate our home games; however since conferences get money by the efforts of their member schools and the officials get paid by their conferences, there isn't much difference aside from the buffer of a conference. If we can't get our own officiating crew, why not get one that has no ties to either school?

 

[Rocket89]

I'm all for having our own refs. I think it's a great idea.

Or we should push to explode this whole "conference" officiating crew deal.

It's like the Yankees travelling to Anaheim with an AL East umpire crew.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

It may not be likely, but if we are worthy of our own TV contract, it's worth discussing. Why do we always have to face officials from hostile conferences? It's a discussion, so join in, or step off.....

I was going to start that argument tonight but figured that it'd be best to wait another day.....

But now that you've brought it up....

Does frontloading a schedule with 6 potential killers look smart to anyone? Hell, I'd be in favor of joining a conference just so we could "relax" the schedule a bit. Who the hell does what we do.....and what do we have to show for it???? It's beyond stupidity if you ask me...We can't last as a team/university the way the current schedules are set up.

 

[IrishGiant]

This is a ridiculous thread. Especially after a game in which we were never in.

He makes a valid point, and one in which I would be interested in learning more about the actual rules regarding this.

 

[IrishGiant]

I'm all for having our own refs. I think it's a great idea.

Or we should push to explode this whole "conference" officiating crew deal.

It's like the Yankees travelling to Anaheim with an AL East umpire crew.

seriously, why not have NCAA Refs who work any NCAA games. Like when MLB did away with NL, and AL Umpires, and now have MLB Umps who can work either league?

 

[dshans]

seriously, why not have NCAA Refs who work any NCAA games. Like when MLB did away with NL, and AL Umpires, and now have MLB Umps who can work either league?

Interesting point ... and a good idea. Have every NCAA member school pay (proportional to division level, etc.) into a fund and then have officials trained, certified AND paid through an impartial body whose purpose is the overall health and fairness of the sport. Remove the pressure of the "culture" and bias of specific conferences who sign the paychecks, and you might gain some consistency.

I'm not disparaging any individual official or any group of officials. Calling balls and strikes is based on a specific set of parameters, training and perception. The same is true of calling infractions and other things in football.

Just take the territorial differences and imperatives out of the equation.

 

[lookingdeadred]

The refs were a non-issue in this game

The refs were a non-issue in this game

so why try to make scapegoats of them. As for that blatant offsides, if you watch the replay, the blitzer was not offside, he timed it perfectly. Brilliant play.

Not to say that we lose solely because of officiating, but the integrity of the rules should be upheld. When an entire crew misses a blatant defensive offsides by Stanford, I lose all confidence in the belief that the officiating is unbiased. Same with the third down spot that Stanford got, which was challenged.

It is supposed to be home field advantage right? Don't we have officials for the blue and gold game? Is it really cost? If we can't have our own crew, why not use a conference's that we do not play?

 

[phork]

The simple fact is there needs to be a national ref pool. If they are serious about fair play then this needs to be the first step. I have seen it, as I am sure most of you, where some team gets screwed because of the other teams home officials.

 

[Irish Rogue]

Yeah dude. Everyone hates us. That is why we have our own tv contract. Give me a break. Talking about the officials after game like this is akin to the Germans complaining about their boot shine boy the day after the Normandy invasion.

"Dude" the officials can completely change the game in football, this was evident in last years michigan loss. ND lost yesterday to a good team but the BS review of the stanford no catch in the endzone shows the BS in PAC 10 officials, they did the same stuff 3 years ago against stanford. This is a legitimate concern each week.

 

[lookingdeadred]

Maybe because most of these refs have other jobs

Maybe because most of these refs have other jobs

so cross country travel most weeks might be a problem for them. I suspect most live in the same geographic region as the conference they work for.

Finally, even if a system like you endorse is adopted, fans will still bellyache about the refs.

Interesting point ... and a good idea. Have every NCAA member school pay (proportional to division level, etc.) into a fund and then have officials trained, certified AND paid through an impartial body whose purpose is the overall health and fairness of the sport. Remove the pressure of the "culture" and bias of specific conferences who sign the paychecks, and you might gain some consistency.

I'm not disparaging any individual official or any group of officials. Calling balls and strikes is based on a specific set of parameters, training and perception. The same is true of calling infractions and other things in football.

Just take the territorial differences and imperatives out of the equation.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

We didn't lose because of the refs. That's true. There were some questionable things, that's also true. It's still an interesting theoretical discussion.

That said, it looks like the offsides was not actually an offsides. The replay shows that he was not across the line. Our O-line just didn't get off the ball until he was a yard behind them.

YouTube - (HD) Stanford player times the snap perfectly vs. Notre Dame

 

[chadder20]

so cross country travel most weeks might be a problem for them. I suspect most live in the same geographic region as the conference they work for.

Finally, even if a system like you endorse is adopted, fans will still bellyache about the refs.

Most NFL Refs also have other jobs during the week and off season. Its not about bellyaching about the refs, its about a system that has the same rules across all of D-1 football. ND always have to play with different conference rules and different interpretation of the rules dictated by other conferences. ND always gets crap when it comes to calls. No matter what the crew comes from, there will always be good and bad calls, but an NCAA crew would at least give ND a chance to fight the calls after the fact. They have no outlet for that now...

 

[Irish Rogue]

They should go with a Big East Officiating crew if that is allowable, they seemed to use them for road games last year.

 

[dshans]

Finally, even if a system like you endorse is adopted, fans will still bellyache about the refs.

No doubt about that. It's ingrained in fans' DNA. It's a tradition, a pastime. A raison d'être for some.

I have no idea what the refs get paid or what travel and expense account arrangements there are. Many a working stiff (full time, part time or contract) spends time on the road. A Big Ten/Eleven/Twelve official living in Ann Arbor would spend as much time away from home working a game in Minneapolis as one in Seattle, College Station or State College. It's a limited season and not nearly the "grind" of basketball with weekday games.

The point (I'm not claiming that it's all that valid or even important) is that it might mitigate any possible Michigan v Ohio State, Anyone v Notre Dame bias. Hell, as a resident of Minneapolis I might savor a late November weekend jaunt to LA, Miami or El Paso.

Were I a certified NCAA football referee.

 

[NDMontana]

McInator, clearly you have reading comprehension issues so I will make myself clear. Notre Dame did not lose against Stanford because of bad officiating. The purpose of this thread is not about why Notre Dame lost to Stanford. This is not an excuse to explain why Notre Dame lost to Stanford.

I would like to believe that everybody would agree that officials should enforce the rules. Officials that do not can be incompetent (similar to McInator's understanding), or partial. If we can eliminate the possibility of partiality, specifically partiality against Notre Dame, it would be a good thing. Understandably there may be issues relating to the appearance of impropriety by paying officials directly to officiate our home games; however since conferences get money by the efforts of their member schools and the officials get paid by their conferences, there isn't much difference aside from the buffer of a conference. If we can't get our own officiating crew, why not get one that has no ties to either school?

At the very least we need to stop using Big East replay crews. ND has been screwed frequently by Big East replay crews. That Stanford deuche with the mullet who plays both ways clearly never got the ball within a yard-and-a-half of where they spotted it on that third down. I don't know what wasn't conclusive there. As an official I'm prone to always give the benefit of the doubt to officials but going back to the Michigan game last year I feel like a lot of bad calls have gone against ND.

The replays are unforgivable. When they have the technology to see every play from eight angles at 60 frames per second there should never be an incorrect call...but there have been (at least against ND). I'm sick of hearing announcers say "I'm not sure there's enough there to over turn the call". Every play is very clear at 60 frames per second. Of course that spot was terrible to begin with. The line and/or side judge follows the ball from the snap and as the ball carrier is held up at the line you start running in towards the play so you have the spot. It's tough to get a great spot anytime a play gets to the second level because the players are faster than the officials. But on plays that don't progress beyond three yards it's a very easy spot because you move very slowly and keep your eye on the ball. So that one play was awful on-field officiating and even worse "replay officiating".

Still, ND has lost a ton of games in the closing minutes the last three years and most of those drives have been with no impact from officials.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

... with the mullet who plays both ways clearly never got the ball within a yard-and-a-half of where they spotted it on that third down. I don't know what wasn't conclusive there.

I think the terrible call was the spot. After a bad spot, I couldn't see conclusive evidence to move it back. I think we pretty much knew (so did the officials), but without a view looking straight down the line (that was the major failure), I would probably have called it inconclusive.