How Much Longer Can ND Stand to be Independent?

[IrishGiant]

So long as ND has the TV contract with NBC and ratings are good, ND can be independent as long as they damn please.

^ This.
Regardless of what USC, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, Florida, Florida State, Michigan, and others think Notre Dame IS still the most popular college football team in the land. Notre Dame was ignored in it's early years when Knute Rockne attempted to join the Big Ten. So what did Knute do? If you can't join em, beat em. Knute was a true visionary, and by playing top teams all over the country (USC and ARMY) he was able to spread the popularity of a tiny Catholic school in the midwest, into a national college football powerhouse, that could control it's own destiny. The national TV contract is a by product of Knute's efforts of a national stage for the Irish, and as long as we still receive TV $, and Bowl $, we can remain an independant indefinately. Remember, if you are in a conference yes you are guaranteed a cut of the conference Bowl $, and a cut of the TV $, but Notre Dame would lose $ as they don't have to share any $ with anyone, and can make their own schedule, and control their own destiny. Notre Dame is proud of their independant tradition, and the Catholic Church is very resistant to change. I don't see us joining any conference any time soon IMO.

 

[IrishTimer]

^ This.
Regardless of what USC, Texas, Nebraska, Miami, Florida, Florida State, Michigan, and others think Notre Dame IS still the most popular college football team in the land. Notre Dame was ignored in it's early years when Knute Rockne attempted to join the Big Ten. So what did Knute do? If you can't join em, beat em. Knute was a true visionary, and by playing top teams all over the country (USC and ARMY) he was able to spread the popularity of a tiny Catholic school in the midwest, into a national college football powerhouse, that could control it's own destiny. The national TV contract is a by product of Knute's efforts of a national stage for the Irish, and as long as we still receive TV $, and Bowl $, we can remain an independant indefinately. Remember, if you are in a conference yes you are guaranteed a cut of the conference Bowl $, and a cut of the TV $, but Notre Dame would lose $ as they don't have to share any $ with anyone, and can make their own schedule, and control their own destiny. Notre Dame is proud of their independant tradition, and the Catholic Church is very resistant to change. I don't see us joining any conference any time soon IMO.

It wasn't actually Rockne that started that really. Notre Dame started playing more of an intersectional schedule when Rockne was still a player there. The Army game in 1913 is a good example of that. Jesse Harper was the coach then and was scheduling games all over the country. Ironically enough because after ND beat Michigan for the first time Michigan boycotted playing us again and forced harper to look for other teams.

By the time Rockne became coach ND's intersectional/national schedule was basically already underway and had been established.

 

[IrishGiant]

It wasn't actually Rockne that started that really. Notre Dame started playing more of an intersectional schedule when Rockne was still a player there. The Army game in 1913 is a good example of that. Jesse Harper was the coach then and was scheduling games all over the country. Ironically enough because after ND beat Michigan for the first time Michigan boycotted playing us again and forced harper to look for other teams.

By the time Rockne became coach ND's intersectional/national schedule was basically already underway and had been established.

Your right, however it was Knute's brainchild to play at USC, and to play Army at Yankee Stadium, thereby insuring more press, and exposure. I think the seeds were planted in his head from his playing days, after all he was the hand picked successor, despite feelings he may be too inexperienced to be the head coach. Imagine what course Notre Dame may have taken if Knute wasn't named the coach then? I shudder to think. It is ironic that Michigan as a member of the Big Ten was a driving force behind NOT allowing Notre Dame into the conference, only to fast foward to today when the Big Ten wants Notre Dame in.

 

[IrishTimer]

Your right, however it was Knute's brainchild to play at USC, and to play Army at Yankee Stadium, thereby insuring more press, and exposure. I think the seeds were planted in his head from his playing days, after all he was the hand picked successor, despite feelings he may be too inexperienced to be the head coach. Imagine what course Notre Dame may have taken if Knute wasn't named the coach then? I shudder to think. It is ironic that Michigan as a member of the Big Ten was a driving force behind NOT allowing Notre Dame into the conference, only to fast foward to today when the Big Ten wants Notre Dame in.

No doubt Rockne was a better business man. He did a great job building on some already estbalished ideas.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I think ND will remain independent as long as there is a Big East, I actually like the way ND is handling this. They've turned down the big check to remain who they are, but I don't see them sacrificing their other sports just for football, should the Big10 decide to torpedo the Big East.

I also don't see you getting left out, you're worth too much money and tv rights. Just don't think ND has the power to what they want forever, the Pac10, Big10, and SEC are the drivers, you're just a sought after passenger.

 

[johnnykillz]

I think ND will remain independent as long as there is a Big East, I actually like the way ND is handling this. They've turned down the big check to remain who they are, but I don't see them sacrificing their other sports just for football, should the Big10 decide to torpedo the Big East.

I also don't see you getting left out, you're worth too much money and tv rights. Just don't think ND has the power to what they want forever, the Pac10, Big10, and SEC are the drivers, you're just a sought after passenger.

Money is the driver. Pride is the tires. Football rankings and fan ratings are the vehicles.

Politicians are foreign car manufacturers. BCS busters, like Boise State, are the thermostats, brake pads/rotors, and oil pans of college football. At a certain point, to find those parts, you have to buy them on like models rather than through parts dealers because your driving an out of date vehicle...

Essentially, the system we have in place is poor. Others know this. Conference leaders see the end is nigh. This is not the Golden Age of conference bullshit. This is the beginning of the end, in my opinion. Should these super cell clusters continue to melt to conglomerate the largest of all schools, more Nebraska and Texas problems will come to be. They cannot be equated.

Being a Michigan fan, I know you're a conference homer. But sometimes you must step outside of train of thought and realize, the grass in this pasture really is greener... No pun intended.

 

[TerryTate]

No mas.................

Conference talk moratorium for 9 months.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I don't believe I gave my vote of what I wanted, I think I said what I thought would happen. But yes, I am a Big10 homer. I personally don't want you in the Big10, but see it as inevitable happening. The Big10 wants to grow, to become more, to be the Jones', and the only way to do that is to do what they're doing.

Would you rather the Big10 take the Pac10 approach? OMG THE BIG10 IS DOING SOMETHING, QUICK INVITE THE BIG12 SOUTH!!!!

Who knows, we could very well stop at 12, I doubt it though.

 

[IrishGiant]

I think ND will remain independent as long as there is a Big East, I actually like the way ND is handling this. They've turned down the big check to remain who they are, but I don't see them sacrificing their other sports just for football, should the Big10 decide to torpedo the Big East.

I also don't see you getting left out, you're worth too much money and tv rights. Just don't think ND has the power to what they want forever, the Pac10, Big10, and SEC are the drivers, you're just a sought after passenger.

The only problem is the Big East WILL continue to exist, not as a football conference, but as a basketball, and baseball conference, which was all it was for years, and is it's bread & butter. Notre Dame will still be able to field their basketball, and baseball teams in the Big East, so if the Big East is raided by larger money hungry conferences in football, this really won't make a difference to Notre Dame as far as it's other sports are concerned.

 

[TerryTate]

Delany: Notre Dame will stay independent - CBSSports.com

Delany finally caves.

As for ND, Delany put a rather final word on getting the Irish in expansion.

"I don't see them as a player, really," Delany said. "I see Notre Dame in the Big East for many years to come. I see them as an independent in football for many years to come."

Knowing Delany, that could be a way of smoking out ND/Big Ten supporters.

And this is stupid:

Also, don't expect a name change for the iconic conference. The 12-team league will remain the Big 10.

 

[fitz_bu47]

The name thing just dumbfounds me, why in the hell are they gonna still call it the Big 10? Really stupid i.m.o.

 

[phork]

Can't really call it the Big12 now can they?

 

[irishtrain]

Change the conference name you bunch of STOOGES. Big Ten my @$$. They are about as disorganized as their refs. Just give us a fair called game and have some common sense and change your freaking conference name.

 

[dshans]

Can't really call it the Big12 now can they?

¿Los Doces Grandes?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

The Big Ten, with two extra inches.

 

[dshans]

The Big Ten, with two extra inches.

Interesting notion: how 'bout The Foot Long Hot Dogs?

 

[IrishGiant]

Wasn't it called the Big 8 at one time? I guess they forgot how to count anything but $ in that conference.

 

[johnnykillz]

It might as well be called hopelessly not Notre Dame.

Write that down you Big 10 homers.

 

[irishtrain]

Guys- sorry for the venom that comes out when we talk about the little 12 but I have no respect anymore for them and IF Notre Dame has to join a so called super conference I hope its never that bunch of #$@^^&*%. I would rather be in the Big 12/ Big East. Let 'em go pound salt and I hope Kelly owns their butts the next 5 yrs. The hose job we got in Ann Arbor last year was the final straw for me. Delaney says he sees no change of name in the future--hey Jim you got 12 teams --so are you saying 2 of your teams are not Big. What a crock.

 

[GreatGolson]

I think if BK can win, NBC will renew its contract for even more $$$ and the Irish stay independent as only they can, the service academies will be picked up by someone eventually

 

[laservet]

FWIW, Delaney announced:

1) the B10 would likely go to 9 conference games in 2013. Doesn't leave much room for a home and home OOC series since conference teams will be alternating between 4 and 5 home conference games.

2) further expansion will be discussed in December. Fireworks to follow.

3) ND is not in the mix

 

[Jerry]

FWIW, Delaney announced:

1) the B10 would likely go to 9 conference games in 2013. Doesn't leave much room for a home and home OOC series since conference teams will be alternating between 4 and 5 home conference games.

2) further expansion will be discussed in December. Fireworks to follow.

3) ND is not in the mix

I wonder if ND will lose some of it's Big Ten games. I wouldn't mind not seeing MSU to be honest. But I always enjoy ND/UM games. And it's funny beating Purdue the majority of the time.

 

[TerryTate]

I'd love to see a ND vs. Nebraska game

 

[Irish.Ca]

I'd love to see a ND vs. Nebraska game

I'd love to see the girls of Nebraska on campus. The game would be good too!

 

[Irish_Angst]

FWIW, Delaney announced:

1) the B10 would likely go to 9 conference games in 2013. Doesn't leave much room for a home and home OOC series since conference teams will be alternating between 4 and 5 home conference games.

2) further expansion will be discussed in December. Fireworks to follow.

3) ND is not in the mix

Of course ND is not in the mix... the Big Integer doesn't want to interrupt their tradition of playing I-AA & MAC schools for fun & profit.

 

[Irish_Angst]

Guys- sorry for the venom that comes out when we talk about the little 12 but I have no respect anymore for them and IF Notre Dame has to join a so called super conference I hope its never that bunch of #$@^^&*%. I would rather be in the Big 12/ Big East. Let 'em go pound salt and I hope Kelly owns their butts the next 5 yrs. The hose job we got in Ann Arbor last year was the final straw for me. Delaney says he sees no change of name in the future--hey Jim you got 12 teams --so are you saying 2 of your teams are not Big. What a crock.

I agree 100%. The fact that Delaney thought he could force ND to join his crappy conference by raiding the Big East is enough to tell 'em where to go. Heck, if I were Swarbrick, I would have told 'em we'll join the Big East instead just to screw up their expansion plans.

Every time Kelly has an opportunity the next couple seasons, he should pour it on against the Big Integer... so we can give them incentive to drop ND. Bunch o' pansies!

I've posted this link before, but it applies here as well.

The Myth That Won't Die: Notre Dame's Weak Schedule & the Big Ten | Bleacher Report

 

[Irish_Angst]

Wasn't it called the Big 8 at one time? I guess they forgot how to count anything but $ in that conference.

Well, it used to be known as the "Western Conference", with Purdue, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Chicago, and Northwestern as members.

Notre Dame wanted to join the conference back in the 1920s, but Michigan's HC Fielding Mellish, er, Yost was motivated by anti-Catholic and anti-immigrant prejudice to keep black-balling the Irish membership. I'm thankful for his brand of dickishness in that without his efforts, ND would not have had as storied a history due to being a regionalized conference member.

 

[johnnykillz]

For those who didn't catcch the first big phase, this thread complimented this one:

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/53389-coach-lou.html

I'm too burned out to re-annihilate the Big-10 kindred. I hope this doesn't happen until early next year, when I have the energy to stave off the homers.

 

[A Pac]

Do You Want the Irish to Join a Conference

Do You Want the Irish to Join a Conference

Hi guys, I just wanted to start a thread dealing with possible conference expansion. I for one would love to see the Irish join the Big Ten. It would give them an identity as far as the "how good are they" debate and would eliminate the very annoying comment of: they never play anybody.

I know that there are a lot of reasons not to do it like: they will lose money on bowl games, they will have less home games and they will lose their national contract with NBC. However, I think that they gain a lot more. They will have a set conference schedule, they will get money from other bowl games that Big Ten teams go to and they will get money from the Big Ten Network.

For me, the biggest drawback would be losing the NBC deal. This is a huge recruiting tool that we use for kids. No other coach in the nation can tell a kid that every game he plays, he will be seen by the entire nation. Losing that would be bad, but i think we have more to gain.

Thoughts?

 

[phork]

No. But if they have to then the Big10 is the natural fit. As far as proving our worth... We played 3 top25 teams in the first 4 games of the year. Purdue is going to look worse now that Marve is out.