Kelly should have been upfront with Cincy Team

[NDinL.A.]

and YES...there were better, and more qualified, candidates out there to be had...

OK, name them. I'll wait.

But just like Master Guns, you can't and won't name them, because they weren't out there.

We get it, you hate Brian Kelly, which you've made abundantly clear. That's fine, no problem with that. Many of us disagree. But you guys keep going back to the tired 'there's better candidates that could be had' argument, but then you shut up when pressed on it. Name these better candidates, please...

 

[BGIF]

If Cincinatti players feel they were lied to then perhaps they should spend another 4 years in school and try to become smarter. ...

I wonder how many of those Cincinnati players left friends or girl friends back home when they left to pursue their dreams. And how many have made friends and relationships at UC that they will leave behind when whether they end up in the NFL or in whatever career. It's part of life's passages.

I have changed employers in the same industry myself. I would not indicate interest or have it common knowledge that I was going on an interview with a competitor. One may find themselves unemployed. If I did go on an interview and determined that switching to my supposed "dream job" then, first and foremost, I would make that decision based on what I think is the best decision for myself and my family. Whether, it is the best decision for Coach Kelly or not remains in question. Truthfully though, he was a lot more open than I would have been.

Reps to you!

Reading some of the posts in this thread I wonder if the writers have ever had a job or have been faced with career choices, or if they're still pissed at dad for moving 10 years ago and leaving childhood friends behind, or if they're just masking their sour grapes as in their judgement Swarbrick didn't hit a home run by picking their choice.

My first choice didn't sign but Swarbrick's man looks like a bases clearing double to me.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

Don't rule out Cincy just yet, there are no sure things for college football even for heavily favored teams:

The Orange Bowl 1978
The Rose Bowl 1971
and lest we forget:
Boise State over Oklahoma

Florida's defense is not all that this year. All that was talked about in the SEC this year was The fact that Alabama had a great defense but could a sputtering offense score enough points to win. Yet they hung 32 on Florida.

 

[dskoo65]

OK, name them. I'll wait.

But just like Master Guns, you can't and won't name them, because they weren't out there.

We get it, you hate Brian Kelly, which you've made abundantly clear. That's fine, no problem with that. Many of us disagree. But you guys keep going back to the tired 'there's better candidates that could be had' argument, but then you shut up when pressed on it. Name these better candidates, please...

speaking for myself, i have only said Kelly was the 3rd choice, at best, on the list of guys ND wanted.

whether or not the other guys "could have been had", we dont know what conversations JS had with stoops or meyer. we dont know what was dicusssed as far as contract terms or salary. there is no way to say for sure whether they could have been lured with enough incentives or not without having all the details.

 

[dmort]

UC lured Kelly away from Central Michigan and Kelly had to coach UC in the bowl game against Western Michigan.In fact that year Kelly beat WMU twice [once with CMU and in post season with UC].

 

[fiveone_4]

Turn on ESPNews....They've been running the same interview with the Cincy players...It's been reported for the past week about what he told his players...He gave them MULTIPLE denials of leaving...The players went public with his denial of leaving becuz BK gave him them his word he wasn't going anywhere...Thus...since he told them he was not leaving, and then went ahead and did leave, he would then be what most would call a "liar" and/or "hypocrite"....I know BK went the whole hiring process without issuing a public denial; but I guess that's pretty easy to do when you give it privately and let your players do it for you...just sayin'...I have a problem with that...AND...don't forget...he pulled the same stunt up at CMU...Don't think that it couldn't happen to us...for as much as we all want to believe ND is the best place to be (I can't fathom a better place), you never know with BK and that is just as much a part of his history as his win-loss record is...

Great coach, no question about it...Great man tho? I'm not so sure...He's done players dirty at each of his last two stops...at the very least, I can say Weis never...NEVER...would've put himself ahead of his players or the team...BK has shown he has no problem doing that...Is that the type of coach you want? Cuz I sure don't want that "quality" in my coach...Doesn't BK come from a political background? So should we start expecting the talk from both sides of his mouth like most politicians give us?

As for better candidates...that list would be very subjective...So when I say he wasn't the best man for the job, you can easily say yes he was, but we'll never really know...I tended to be of the group that said you don't take a "No" from Bob Stoops (My arguement there is Saban and Alabama; they didn't take "No" for an answer)...Hell, I believe Skip Holtz was still in play (and there is a very compelling arguement for him to have been "the man" and a better overall hire for the program)...So many more I could go thru, but the fact remains that we'll never know who was, or wasn't, even contacted...and we'll never know for sure whether someone else could've done a better job...It's BK's team now...We'll see how he does...I'll support him, but I'll do so with a very watchful eye becuz I disagreed with his hiring from the moment his name was rumored to be in the mix...I said he was a "flavor of the month" coach just like Levitt and Schiano were in years prior when their teams had success in a very topsy-turvy and weak Big East conference...Who's to say he won't win the NC in 3-4 yrs? But then again, who's to say he will? Could Holtz have? Could Gruden have? Stoops? We'll never know...I'm just saying that there were better, more qualified, candidates available that would've have better suited our needs and program...but it's all subjective...just like saying that "BK is the best man for the job" is also subjective...

If BK flops, I won't be shocked...If BK bolts ND to go somewhere else, I won't be shocked...and when I'm not going to be shocked by either of those 2 things, then to me, it indicates a bad hire.

Well there are rumors that he was already talking with ND or it's reps BEFORE the Pitt game. What is he to do ? Tell his players, "yeah ND is interested and I think I might take that job if it's offered ?".....you can't put that info out there, not even to your players because I can guarantee you it will leak from somwhere. At which point you will have an even bigger media circus following you around and asking you if it's true and they will be all over your team's players, your current coaching staff, your schools officials and ND officials as well. Both BK and ND wanted to keep this as hush as possible until the offer to BK was made, accepted and a contract was worked out in principle. Anyone in this same situation doesn't want to admit it publicly or privately until both sides are set on it and are ready to announce it to the rest of the nation.

As far as better and more qualified candidates out there....that's not exactly true. Stoops and Meyer both said they would not be the next HC at ND. Dunno which Holtz you are referring to there...Skip has won yes, but as far as winning goes Kelly has been a bit more impressive in that department. Kelly also has more experience as a HC. Lou Holtz has not coached in 5 years so there is no supporting argument that he could do as good or a better job at this point in his career than Kelly can, both on the field and on the recruiting trail. Outside of that the Gruden's and Dungy's of the world have never been a HC on the collegiate level nor had to recruit like they would be required to here. While I think both could be very convincing and players would want to play for them, what I think or anyone else for that matter does not equal success. Skip, Lou, TD & Gruden all can flop just as easily as Kelly can.

I doubt he leaves for another collegiate job in the near future as none would give his resume more prestige than what ND can offer there. The only job that might be attractive enough for him to bolt outta South Bend would be a call from an NFL club.

At this point we will have to wait and see how Coach Whopper handles things going forward before we have room to bitch and moan....which as fans I'd hope we are all on board with the sentiment that that time will not come. So for now let's rally behind our coach and not root against him or his chance for success.

Here is to hoping BK wakes up the echoes!

 

[Ben E.]

what is the bigger injustice to his players(who are adults by the way)?

not disclosing the full truth in regards to the nd job to his players so they would stay focused and possibly get a nc bid or at least a bcs bid

or

telling them he is leaving, having them no show against pitt, and losing out on playing in bcs game! if he had chose that route they would be playing in the who cares bowl instead of sugar bowl?

come on people get real!

 

[IrishBlood81]

I mean guys come on. are you really that naive? He had to not just for his sake. If he told them before the Pitt game that he was leaving (Which is what Herm Edwards said this morning) they more than likely would've lost that game. yeah he lied but if he didn't they wouldve lost and not had the Sugar Bowl so...is it not for the better?

81

 

[Ben E.]

I mean guys come on. are you really that naive? He had to not just for his sake. If he told them before the Pitt game that he was leaving (Which is what Herm Edwards said this morning) they more than likely would've lost that game. yeah he lied but if he didn't they wouldve lost and not had the Sugar Bowl so...is it not for the better?

81

yep just posted same thing!

 

[IrishBlood81]

yep just posted same thing!

yeah just saw that. well i guess smart people post together or something lol


81

 

[O'Aviles]

I once was dating a girl who broke up with me for another fella. When she left, I felt like she did me so wrong and I felt like she lied.

But, that's because my feelings were hurt. Turns out she never lied. She just did what she had to do to make herself happy.

When I got over the hurt, her and I became great friends again.

Funny how life works

 

[nd1988]

You've made it clear that you are not on board with this hire and that's fine. But you couldn't be more wrong here. Did you really say he should have waited until after the BCS game? Seriously? Why, so he could start his ND career a month behind? Do you realize what a critical time it is this month with recruiting? Guys are committing every day, and you want him to wait a month to say that he's coming to ND?

And do you really think you would have been happy twiddling your thumbs waiting for ND to announce their head coach? You wouldn't have been bitching about Swarbrick sitting on his thumbs? Yeah right. You would have killed Swarbrick and the entire process just like you've been doing this whole time. That's ridiculous to say he should've waited a month. He has a new job, and he needs to start on that one. Coaches leave jobs for better ones all the time. Coaches also get fired for not getting enough wins all the time. Players leave for the pros early all the time. It's big boy business; Kelly did nothing wrong. The only reason you're bringing this up is because he's not the guy you wanted.

Now, how did ND 'settle'? Who do you think they should have gotten that was a better hire? There's not one candidate out there that would have accepted the ND job that is more qualified. I've asked you this in other threads, and you never answer me. Interested to see who you say is a better candidate...

Good stuff.......

 

[Ben E.]

yeah just saw that. well i guess smart people post together or something lol


81

that is correct!

 

[DKSchrute]

Kelly did his job. The biggest game of the year for Cinci was the Pitt game.

He did and said what he had to in order to get that win.

Making the BCS game is what mattered. Nobody will remember this Sugar Bowl 2 years from now. Its a exhibition game. The money is in the coffers regardless.

If they make the National Title game, which was 1 second from happening, he stays and coaches that game without a doubt.

The Sugar Bowl is the reward for the season, not the ultimate destination of the season.

We always talk about Weis "got us to 2 BCS games" - it was about the season culmination not the bowl game itself.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Guys, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS. NO COACH, NOT ONE, WILL ADMIT TO EITHER HIS PLAYERS OR THE MEDIA HE IS TALKING TO SOMEONE ELSE. IT DOESNT HAPPEN.

My God, why is that so hard to understand?

 

[WaveDomer]

I'm not a huge fan of him not coaching the bowl game because I feel it's a definite let-down for kids and other coaches who worked really hard. That being said, there is really nothing he could do about it because that's how NCAA football is set up. It's just a crap sandwich either way.

Regarding his "lying" to the players. I don't know what else this guy could do. The media is all over the place reporting this that and the other, that they really force the issue. We live in this stupid ass 24 hour a day news cycle, where these clowns just report anything because they are lazy and have to fill space. They don't report any actual news, but they just throw everything around and we end up hearing who's going down on Tiger's junk every single hour. I would find it interesting to compile all of the ND coaching headlines for the past month and just look at them. I bet it would be laugh out loud funny. But in the process, the media forces these guys to maneuver like Sean Connery in the Hunt for Red October through that undersea trench.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

I never thought Stoops would be the next coach. While ND has probably the most storied program in college football there are other places that also have an excellent college football tradition.

Oklahoma: 42 Conf Titles, 7 NC, 5 Heisman winners
Alabama: 22 Conf Titles, 12 NC. (11 really) 0 Heisman winners
USC: 37 Conf Titles, 11 NC , 7 Heisman Winners
Ohio State: 35 Conf Titles, 7 NC, 7 Heisman Winners
Texas: 28 Conf Titles, 4 NC, 2 Heisman Winners, 2nd all time in wins passed ND last year
Nebraska: 46 Conf Titles, 5 NC, 3 Heisman Winners
Michigan: 41 Conf Titles, 11, NC, 3 Heisman Winners

It is highly unusual for coach to leave a storied tradition rich program for another storied tradition rich program. These are the elite coaching positions in college football. These coaches have already hit the big time. Saban was lured to Alabama, but from a pro team.
and Bear Bryant did leave a good Texas A&M for Alabama, but that was his Alma Mater. Yes, Roy Williams left Kansas in Basketball but again to his Alma Mater. This is why I thought there was really no way to get Stoops, unless they offered more money that Bill Gates has.

 

[GoldenBoy3]

I think its stupid to say it was about the money. I'm sure the money was a nice add on, but why wouldn't you want to be the head coach for Notre Dame over Cincinnati. If Kelly turns around this program he'll be looked at as one of the greatest coaches in the NCAA history. I feel for the players because I'm sure it sucked, but if you look at every program he left they continued to succeed because of the foundation he built. Look at Central Michigan, they are a pretty solid program. Plus they Cincinnati will grab Central Michigan's coach Butch Jones, who worked under Kelly.

 

[Irish52]

Kelly will do for ND what Meyer and Saban did for Florida and Alabama...win national championships. More importantly, it will excite and mobilize the millions that root for ND.

 

[JefMaj]

Was it in the best interest of those kids to tell them, last week, that he may take another job? Of course not... he got them into the Sugar Bowl.. in a year crowded with undefeateds. Losing to Pitt would have put Pitt in a BCS... maybe with Forida, TCU & Boise in the Fiesta... OSU & Oregon in the Rose, and Georgia Tech with either Iowa or Cincy in the Orange... in the same f'n boat they are in now... without Kelly.
They played Saturday and it could be argued that all of the ND static caused them to drop a load in the 1st half. As early as Tuesday he told his team he was going to talk to ND. His AD said it was a hacked twitter, however, he quickly said it wasn't and it was his statement.

Does the guy say he's leaving before a K is signed????? Not smart... I'm leaving... er... well... uhm... now I'm staying!!!!

The announcement yesterday didn't come from Kelly... it was leaked from the ND side.

Do you tell your kids before the banquet? I'm leaving for a better job at a better school... now let's all eat cake.

And in the Elkhart Truth it was reported that the Cincy A.D. who 1st broke (officially - just before 9:00 pm... when ND advised it's students) nationally that he was leaving... said that he decided that Kelly wouldn't be coaching the bowl game.

So.. this is the big leagues of college football. Grow up.

Joke 'em if they can't take a f**k!!!!!!!

 

[HoosierMP]

OK, name them. I'll wait.

But just like Master Guns, you can't and won't name them, because they weren't out there.

We get it, you hate Brian Kelly, which you've made abundantly clear. That's fine, no problem with that. Many of us disagree. But you guys keep going back to the tired 'there's better candidates that could be had' argument, but then you shut up when pressed on it. Name these better candidates, please...

Again...this is a very subjective list and THAT is why I won't name them; not because they aren't out there....Just because YOU say BK is the best choice doesn't necessarily make it so...We know that the schedule has been watered down and that BK does win...I look at next years schedule and see 11-1 (that "1" depending on the USC game)...I look at that schedule I think ANY coach should be able to get ND to at least 10-2, if not 11-1 every single year....But again, I think there were better fits for the team and the program overall, to be had...I have never said that I hated BK, so i'm confused how I've made that "abudantly clear"...Just because I disagree with his hiring and think he is a shady character does not mean I hate the guy...How many times in previous posts have I said I will support him?? Countless times...I just see who he is, what he's done, and I won't be shocked when he does it to our team...I see what he's done and how he's done it, and I don't think that's the right image for an ND Head Football Coach...I can seperate the coach from the man...I don't know if you can do that, NDinLA...and I say that because it's become "abundantly clear" you can't.

For all of you who dismiss how he left Cincy...He told his players straight-up he wasn't leaving...The arguement of how he left is now changing...It went from the original "He didn't lie" to "Well, so what if he lied? He had to"...I won't defend a person who knowingly lies...PERIOD...BK knows he lied...His Cincy players are well aware that he lied...He used them to get his denial public (which is probably one of the most morally pathetic things I've ever seen)...He told his players on MULTIPLE OCCASSIONS...IN PRIVATE MEETINGS...That he wasn't going anywhere...Now a real man, honors his word...Did he tell them he was going to talk to ND? Yes...But he followed it up with a quick, "but I'm staying here with you guys" line...and quit trying to use the "He was protecting the team" line...He should have been upfront with them...Someone mentioned being in a relationship where his girl cheated on him...I don't know about all of you, but I would've rather had the girl (or in this case, BK) be straight up and say that you're going to entertain offers but leave things open...AND...Cincy would've been playing in the BCS regardless of the outcome of the Pitt game...

I keep reading how these kids are "adults" and should "understand the business side of it"...First, think back to when you were 18, 19, 20 yrs old...You may have been a "adult" legally, but how about in maturity? Those Cincy players, just like ND players are still a coach's "kids"...Next, the only "business" here was "funny business" on BK's end...ND had a job to do...Swarbrick handled it very well and I give him an "A" for how he did his job...But what those "kids" in Cincy learned this past week, is that MONEY talks...Whether it be the BCS game they were robbed out of, to their coach who bolted out the door after telling them he wouldn't...I think situation spotlights the bigger problem in college sports...This "business" is bad business...I read where one person wanted to compare it to their industry job and how they changed jobs...Horrible comparison...Coaching, and unless you've either coached at a high amateur level or played at a high amateur level, is unique and unlike any other profession...You are the heart and soul of a team...You wear 101 different hats...This isn't pro football here; this is amateur football and the only "business" that's ever conducted is by the coach's and the university...The kids around you are not fellow co-workers or employees and you don't treat them as such...There aren't the kind of emotional ties to the ppl you work with as there is with the kids you coach...There is supposed to be a sanctity between a coach and his players...Maybe in all his winning years, BK has forgotten that...or maybe he hasn't yet embraced or even learned that yet...Holtz never would've sold his players out...Neither would Weis, Davie, or Ty...That much I can say about those coaches.

BK did do those kids dirty...That's the bottomline...He did them dirty just like he did the CMU kids dirty...I hope it was worth it for BK...He has already stamped his legacy a guy who, when presented with an opportunity for himself, will take it...He put himself ahead of the team, plain and simple...Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and just say what he did was wrong?? Why try to defend it?? It was a classless move...admit it...accept it...move on...for some that appears to be a real challenge...and also, I'll say this again...when he pulls the same stunt at ND, I hope those of you who have defended him will continue to support his actions and won't hold a grudge...I see it coming, just like I see him winning...Like I said in a previous post, he will win and he will lie to his players...him doing that is just as much a part of him as his win-loss record is....I don't know if hiring a guy with such a track record was the best thing overall for the betterment of the program overall...and that is just one of the many reasons I believe there were better candidates to be had.

So, do I hate BK? No, I don't "hate" him, NDinLA...but I am very aware of who he is by going off his track record...I believe ANY coach can win here...ND is college football and everyone knows it...It's why ESPN always hates on us...I, personally, couldn't be more thrilled to see what BK will bring to the table and just to see how he manages things...I just think he could've handled things WAYYYYYYYY better then he did...and for those reasons, you won't catch me saying that he is "great human being" or "the best coach ever" or anything ridiculous like that...in those areas, BK has alot of work to do and alot of wrongs to right and that can only be done in time...We'll see....But, for now, he has my support.

 

[Irish#1]

IMO he went out of his way to not confirm it. As for lieing to them, what do you tell your team when they are exicted about a possible NC bid," Yea i know your exicited but im outta here its been fun"? And my guess is that if Cincy was going to the NC game then we would all still be wondering who the next coach is, even though the deal would already be done behind closed doors. From what i saw tonight he wanted to make sure the teams night stayed about them and not about him. Just my 2 cents

You're right. Unfortunately today's college football landscape doesn't allow coaches to be as honest as they would like to be.

 

[Ben E.]

Again...this is a very subjective list and THAT is why I won't name them; not because they aren't out there....Just because YOU say BK is the best choice doesn't necessarily make it so...We know that the schedule has been watered down and that BK does win...I look at next years schedule and see 11-1 (that "1" depending on the USC game)...I look at that schedule I think ANY coach should be able to get ND to at least 10-2, if not 11-1 every single year....But again, I think there were better fits for the team and the program overall, to be had...I have never said that I hated BK, so i'm confused how I've made that "abudantly clear"...Just because I disagree with his hiring and think he is a shady character does not mean I hate the guy...How many times in previous posts have I said I will support him?? Countless times...I just see who he is, what he's done, and I won't be shocked when he does it to our team...I see what he's done and how he's done it, and I don't think that's the right image for an ND Head Football Coach...I can seperate the coach from the man...I don't know if you can do that, NDinLA...and I say that because it's become "abundantly clear" you can't.

For all of you who dismiss how he left Cincy...He told his players straight-up he wasn't leaving...The arguement of how he left is now changing...It went from the original "He didn't lie" to "Well, so what if he lied? He had to"...I won't defend a person who knowingly lies...PERIOD...BK knows he lied...His Cincy players are well aware that he lied...He used them to get his denial public (which is probably one of the most morally pathetic things I've ever seen)...He told his players on MULTIPLE OCCASSIONS...IN PRIVATE MEETINGS...That he wasn't going anywhere...Now a real man, honors his word...Did he tell them he was going to talk to ND? Yes...But he followed it up with a quick, "but I'm staying here with you guys" line...and quit trying to use the "He was protecting the team" line...He should have been upfront with them...Someone mentioned being in a relationship where his girl cheated on him...I don't know about all of you, but I would've rather had the girl (or in this case, BK) be straight up and say that you're going to entertain offers but leave things open...AND...Cincy would've been playing in the BCS regardless of the outcome of the Pitt game...

I keep reading how these kids are "adults" and should "understand the business side of it"...First, think back to when you were 18, 19, 20 yrs old...You may have been a "adult" legally, but how about in maturity? Those Cincy players, just like ND players are still a coach's "kids"...Next, the only "business" here was "funny business" on BK's end...ND had a job to do...Swarbrick handled it very well and I give him an "A" for how he did his job...But what those "kids" in Cincy learned this past week, is that MONEY talks...Whether it be the BCS game they were robbed out of, to their coach who bolted out the door after telling them he wouldn't...I think situation spotlights the bigger problem in college sports...This "business" is bad business...I read where one person wanted to compare it to their industry job and how they changed jobs...Horrible comparison...Coaching, and unless you've either coached at a high amateur level or played at a high amateur level, is unique and unlike any other profession...You are the heart and soul of a team...You wear 101 different hats...This isn't pro football here; this is amateur football and the only "business" that's ever conducted is by the coach's and the university...The kids around you are not fellow co-workers or employees and you don't treat them as such...There aren't the kind of emotional ties to the ppl you work with as there is with the kids you coach...There is supposed to be a sanctity between a coach and his players...Maybe in all his winning years, BK has forgotten that...or maybe he hasn't yet embraced or even learned that yet...Holtz never would've sold his players out...Neither would Weis, Davie, or Ty...That much I can say about those coaches.

BK did do those kids dirty...That's the bottomline...He did them dirty just like he did the CMU kids dirty...I hope it was worth it for BK...He has already stamped his legacy a guy who, when presented with an opportunity for himself, will take it...He put himself ahead of the team, plain and simple...Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and just say what he did was wrong?? Why try to defend it?? It was a classless move...admit it...accept it...move on...for some that appears to be a real challenge...and also, I'll say this again...when he pulls the same stunt at ND, I hope those of you who have defended him will continue to support his actions and won't hold a grudge...I see it coming, just like I see him winning...Like I said in a previous post, he will win and he will lie to his players...him doing that is just as much a part of him as his win-loss record is....I don't know if hiring a guy with such a track record was the best thing overall for the betterment of the program overall...and that is just one of the many reasons I believe there were better candidates to be had.

So, do I hate BK? No, I don't "hate" him, NDinLA...but I am very aware of who he is by going off his track record...I believe ANY coach can win here...ND is college football and everyone knows it...It's why ESPN always hates on us...I, personally, couldn't be more thrilled to see what BK will bring to the table and just to see how he manages things...I just think he could've handled things WAYYYYYYYY better then he did...and for those reasons, you won't catch me saying that he is "great human being" or "the best coach ever" or anything ridiculous like that...in those areas, BK has alot of work to do and alot of wrongs to right and that can only be done in time...We'll see....But, for now, he has my support.

thanks for your OPPINION!

 

[HoosierMP]

thanks for your OPPINION!

*Right back at ya with the same sarcasm* You're Welcome...Always happy to give it...whether ppl like it or not...God Bless the US Constitution!

 

[GDomer09]

He did everything right; He allowed them to focus on Pitt., he never said it wouldn't happen he just said it hasn't happened and he told his team when he got the interview instead of going behind there back. I've never seen so much whinning about a coach moving up to a better job, being able to support his family even more, and following his dreams.

 

[GDomer09]

I expected this from ND haters, but not ND fans.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I have little problem with anything Kelly did in the process of him getting hired. The reality is the system is screwed up. You finish the regular season, and if you have as good a season as UC did this year, you wait a friggin month to coach the bowl game. If you change jobs like Kelly did, you almost have to leave before the bowl game because of recruiting concerns, not to mention the process of putting your staff together. The hiring school certainly is not going to wait until after your bowl game to sign you and announce the hiring, and the situations where a coach can take another job but still coach their current team in their bowl are few and far between. Yes, Urban did it in Utah. But would that really have worked here? I don't think so. Unlike with Utah, I think UC really thought there was a chance he'd stay (and maybe there really was), so for him to stick around Cinci for a month after the Pitt game after breaking their hearts and telling them he's leaving, I just don't see how that could possibly have worked. Ntm, I think ND was pressuring him to come to the University right away and not wait. So what was he to do? Pass on his dream job to coach UC in a BCS bowl? If Texas had lost and UC was in the title game, maybe ND could've waited, but that wasn't the case here. The university still has the memory of Charlie Weis waiting to take the job while he coached New England to a Superbowl, and right or wrong, they didn't want this hire to mirror that one in any way, starting right off the bat.

I personally agree that this was probably the best hire Swarbrick could've made. I don't believe any amount of money the University can afford would've brought Stoops, Meyer, Dungy, or Gruden here. So with those names out, we're left with BK and his peers (Edsall, Harbaugh, etc). Maybe in 5 years we'll be saying Edsall or one of the others would've been a better hire, I'm not saying its not a possibility, I just don't think its the most likely scenario.

And as far as Kelly doing it to ND one day, hey, its a possibility. But the thing is, the only place I could imagine a coach bolting ND for (at least, a coach we'd be sad to see go) is the NFL. I know he left GVSU for CMU, and then CMU for UC, and now UC for ND. But, to me, there is no step up within the college ranks from ND. There are lateral moves, but not step ups. And I don't think he'd build a successful program, and then make a lateral move. For the same reasons Meyer didn't. And if a few years from now he builds the program up so high that NFL teams want him, well, to be honest, I'll deal. If he built up this program to that point, and then left, do you really think it would be as hard to find his replacement as it has been the last 2 times? Look at LSU. I know a lot of Tiger fans aren't in love with Nick Saban anymore, but lets face facts, would LSU be what it is today under Miles if Nick Saban hadn't put down the groundwork first? So if you're telling me what I should be scared of with Kelly's track record is that 5 years from now Notre Dame may resemble LSU under a Les Miles of their own, then all I can say in response after the past 13 years is, where do I sign?

 

[jmurphy75]

Someone should just take this thread down! We just got a great coach and people still want to complain about how hw left...GET OVER IT. Coaches leave it happens unfortunately someone gets their feelings hut. I am really suprised by the negativity still rambling on about this.

 

[HoosierMP]

He did everything right; He allowed them to focus on Pitt., he never said it wouldn't happen he just said it hasn't happened and he told his team when he got the interview instead of going behind there back. I've never seen so much whinning about a coach moving up to a better job, being able to support his family even more, and following his dreams.

He did everything right? No, he didn't...He never said it wouldn't happen? Have you even LISTENED to what Cincy players were saying for the past week?? THEY did the public denials because BK gave it to them, privately...He told his players, "Hey guys, you're going to hear alot of stuff about me leaving, but I'm NOT going anywhere. I'm going to be here with you all. This is where I want to be"....You have to be blind and deaf to think BK did everything right and never said it wasn't going to happen....

It is posters like you, that made me write that long-ass diatribe about this situation...Quit playing blind, deaf, and dumb...BK lied to the Cincy kids...just like he lied to the CMU kids...I don't ever see when when lying is ok for a coach...Quit trying to be oblivious to it...Quit trying to defend it...Just admit it...accept it...and move on...

 

[JefMaj]

Again...this is a very subjective list and THAT is why I won't name them; not because they aren't out there....Just because YOU say BK is the best choice doesn't necessarily make it so...We know that the schedule has been watered down and that BK does win...I look at next years schedule and see 11-1 (that "1" depending on the USC game)...I look at that schedule I think ANY coach should be able to get ND to at least 10-2, if not 11-1 every single year....But again, I think there were better fits for the team and the program overall, to be had...I have never said that I hated BK, so i'm confused how I've made that "abudantly clear"...Just because I disagree with his hiring and think he is a shady character does not mean I hate the guy...How many times in previous posts have I said I will support him?? Countless times...I just see who he is, what he's done, and I won't be shocked when he does it to our team...I see what he's done and how he's done it, and I don't think that's the right image for an ND Head Football Coach...I can seperate the coach from the man...I don't know if you can do that, NDinLA...and I say that because it's become "abundantly clear" you can't.

For all of you who dismiss how he left Cincy...He told his players straight-up he wasn't leaving...The arguement of how he left is now changing...It went from the original "He didn't lie" to "Well, so what if he lied? He had to"...I won't defend a person who knowingly lies...PERIOD...BK knows he lied...His Cincy players are well aware that he lied...He used them to get his denial public (which is probably one of the most morally pathetic things I've ever seen)...He told his players on MULTIPLE OCCASSIONS...IN PRIVATE MEETINGS...That he wasn't going anywhere...Now a real man, honors his word...Did he tell them he was going to talk to ND? Yes...But he followed it up with a quick, "but I'm staying here with you guys" line...and quit trying to use the "He was protecting the team" line...He should have been upfront with them...Someone mentioned being in a relationship where his girl cheated on him...I don't know about all of you, but I would've rather had the girl (or in this case, BK) be straight up and say that you're going to entertain offers but leave things open...AND...Cincy would've been playing in the BCS regardless of the outcome of the Pitt game...

I keep reading how these kids are "adults" and should "understand the business side of it"...First, think back to when you were 18, 19, 20 yrs old...You may have been a "adult" legally, but how about in maturity? Those Cincy players, just like ND players are still a coach's "kids"...Next, the only "business" here was "funny business" on BK's end...ND had a job to do...Swarbrick handled it very well and I give him an "A" for how he did his job...But what those "kids" in Cincy learned this past week, is that MONEY talks...Whether it be the BCS game they were robbed out of, to their coach who bolted out the door after telling them he wouldn't...I think situation spotlights the bigger problem in college sports...This "business" is bad business...I read where one person wanted to compare it to their industry job and how they changed jobs...Horrible comparison...Coaching, and unless you've either coached at a high amateur level or played at a high amateur level, is unique and unlike any other profession...You are the heart and soul of a team...You wear 101 different hats...This isn't pro football here; this is amateur football and the only "business" that's ever conducted is by the coach's and the university...The kids around you are not fellow co-workers or employees and you don't treat them as such...There aren't the kind of emotional ties to the ppl you work with as there is with the kids you coach...There is supposed to be a sanctity between a coach and his players...Maybe in all his winning years, BK has forgotten that...or maybe he hasn't yet embraced or even learned that yet...Holtz never would've sold his players out...Neither would Weis, Davie, or Ty...That much I can say about those coaches.

BK did do those kids dirty...That's the bottomline...He did them dirty just like he did the CMU kids dirty...I hope it was worth it for BK...He has already stamped his legacy a guy who, when presented with an opportunity for himself, will take it...He put himself ahead of the team, plain and simple...Why can't we all be honest with ourselves and just say what he did was wrong?? Why try to defend it?? It was a classless move...admit it...accept it...move on...for some that appears to be a real challenge...and also, I'll say this again...when he pulls the same stunt at ND, I hope those of you who have defended him will continue to support his actions and won't hold a grudge...I see it coming, just like I see him winning...Like I said in a previous post, he will win and he will lie to his players...him doing that is just as much a part of him as his win-loss record is....I don't know if hiring a guy with such a track record was the best thing overall for the betterment of the program overall...and that is just one of the many reasons I believe there were better candidates to be had.

So, do I hate BK? No, I don't "hate" him, NDinLA...but I am very aware of who he is by going off his track record...I believe ANY coach can win here...ND is college football and everyone knows it...It's why ESPN always hates on us...I, personally, couldn't be more thrilled to see what BK will bring to the table and just to see how he manages things...I just think he could've handled things WAYYYYYYYY better then he did...and for those reasons, you won't catch me saying that he is "great human being" or "the best coach ever" or anything ridiculous like that...in those areas, BK has alot of work to do and alot of wrongs to right and that can only be done in time...We'll see....But, for now, he has my support.

A lie is a lie - no matter what? MMmmm..... I guess we needed to hire a coordinator then... because if you recruit as a head coach, the kid thinks you are there as long as the contract, and we could only hire Tuberville.. he wasn't restricted under a contract. Sign a contract is a lie, so to speak... as we know: a lie is a lie - no matter what.