Why is nobody talking about...Paul Johnson

[LOVEMYIRISH]

They were also the #3 rushing team. They may play a fairly easy schedule, but they run the ball well against EVERYONE.

Ohio State is #5 against the run, this year. In games not against a team called Navy, the Buckeyes defense has given up an average of 75 yards rushing per game. That's not a bad defense, not by any stretch of the imagination. Yet, against the Buckeyes, Navy ran for 186 yards. The Buckeyes gave up 10.8 points a game to teams not named Navy, yet Navy scored 27 points, on 4 TDs, against the Buckeyes.

Look, man, I'm not saying that it's easy, or even feasible, to win NCs with an option offense. But somewhere along the line someone stated that even a decent defense would rather easily shut down an option offense. That just ain't true. At least, it ain't true if your team can really execute the option well.

Who cares if they were #3 in Rushing? They were second to last in passing yards (Army was lower).

We were #5 in Passing Yards...but #83 in Rushing yards. Being that unbalanced will get you rolled. A key reason Weis failed this year was his inability to get TDs in the Redzone and his inability to make the rushing game a threat.

Having a one dimensional offense will PREVENT you from ever competing for the National Title. It's that simple. To win it all you must be balanced. The Triple Option is not balanced, it's simply not an offense that an elite team will run and win out all the way.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Look, man, I'm not saying that it's easy, or even feasible, to win NCs with an option offense. But somewhere along the line someone stated that even a decent defense would rather easily shut down an option offense. That just ain't true. At least, it ain't true if your team can really execute the option well.

A Top20 defense will shut down any Option team. ANY. The game has changed. Defenses have changed. Offenses changed to get ahead of that.

The option died because it was not something that will win titles...or be suitable to use against top teams.

Not to mention the fact that you are inevitably gonna get your QB killed.

 

[WaveDomer]

A Top20 defense will shut down any Option team. ANY. The game has changed. Defenses have changed. Offenses changed to get ahead of that.

The option died because it was not something that will win titles...or be suitable to use against top teams.

Not to mention the fact that you are inevitably gonna get your QB killed.

Clemson is ranked 22 in defense, so that falls outside your range. But GT beat them twice. North Carolina is ranked 6 in defense. They lost to GT by a lot. VTech is ranked 14 in d and they got beat by GT.

Air Force is ranked 10 in defense and lost to Navy.

Here is the link to defense stats: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

The option works.

 

[BearGB]

I think that a lot of unfounded opinions have been thrown around, but I don't believe it is true that any top 20 defense can stop the option attack. Defensing the option takes a very assignment sure defense who reads their "keys." No doubt about it, and most top 20 defenses have these credentials. However, it takes more than just that. Keys to stopping the option include: very strong play by DEs and OLBs - who generally become matched up one and one with the QB and need to either tackle him or force the pitch; sure-tackling CBs and safeties to take care of the "pitch" man. Bottom line is your DE and OLB need to try to contain everything and not let it get outside. And your safeties, cornerbacks, and MLBs need to force extremely hard when their assignment dictates it.

Much of this is scheme, but some of it is also simply players' confidence in their own ability and their assignments.

On another note, though, Paul Johnson is a mastermind as far as knowing the intricacies of this offense. He may not be amazing as a defensive coach, but he certainly knows what he is talking about and shouldn't be thought of as dumb or incompetent. (Also, the man is one of the funniest, sarcastic guys around. Listen to his press conferences if you get a chance, the guy eats reporters for breakfast.)

Personally, I do not think I want him as our next coach because I do not love watching the option and I don't want to see the transfers. However, I don't think we should dismiss the option in our discussion as an offense that no longer works and that he is somehow an incompetent coach

 

[kmoose]

A Top20 defense will shut down any Option team. ANY. The game has changed. Defenses have changed. Offenses changed to get ahead of that.

The option died because it was not something that will win titles...or be suitable to use against top teams.

Not to mention the fact that you are inevitably gonna get your QB killed.

Are you reading any of the stuff that I am posting here? Ohio State is not only a Top 20 D, but a Top 5 D, and came nowhere near to shutting down Navy. That's not my opinion, I provided the numbers to show it was true.

 

[NDOM]

Actually Clemsons defense ranked #22 and look what Georgia Tech did. I know you said top 20 but #22 is pretty damn good.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

You can't win with the triple option against elite defenses unless you have better offensive talent.

Nebraska's decline was solely due to them being unable to field top talent at their offensive skill positions. Jammal Lord? Dahhran Diedrick?

If we were to switch to the triple option we'd have to continously field the top athletes for our offense, superior offensive talent and speed to what we'd be facing on defense.

 

[kmoose]

You can't win with the triple option against elite defenses unless you have better offensive talent.

I don't disagree with this. However, it has been claimed that any decent defense will shut down the option with relative ease. And that just ain't so. I've used Navy v. Ohio State as an example, but that appears to be being ignored, as it goes against the claim that someone made.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

I don't disagree with this. However, it has been claimed that any decent defense will shut down the option with relative ease. And that just ain't so. I've used Navy v. Ohio State as an example, but that appears to be being ignored, as it goes against the claim that someone made.

It was a season opener.

Ohio State's defense has been weak against the spread and it wasn't hard to believe they would struggle against the triple option.

 

[kmoose]

It was a season opener.

Ohio State's defense has been weak against the spread and it wasn't hard to believe they would struggle against the triple option.

Dude, they are the #5 defense in Yardage, #5 against the run, #5 in points allowed. They haven't had many weak games at all. And Navy scored more than twice the average points that they allowed.

 

[CAIrishFan]

Paul Johnson would be a great coach at ND. But I agree with others, the personnel is not in place to switch to a polar opposite offense.

I remember the Powlus days and how ineffective ND could be with an immobile QB running the option.

 

[kmoose]

Paul Johnson would be a great coach at ND. But I agree with others, the personnel is not in place to switch to a polar opposite offense.

I remember the Powlus days and how ineffective ND could be with an immobile QB running the option.

If the general consensus is correct, and Clausen is headed for the NFL, that leaves Crist as the starter. I'm under the impression that Crist is very mobile, indeed. I'm not sure that that means option mobile, but he is supposed to have some good wheels.

Regardless, I don't think we have the talent at TB, to run the option.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

If the general consensus is correct, and Clausen is headed for the NFL, that leaves Crist as the starter. I'm under the impression that Crist is very mobile, indeed. I'm not sure that that means option mobile, but he is supposed to have some good wheels.

Regardless, I don't think we have the talent at TB, to run the option.

This would be correct. Crist has very good wheels. Now, how that would translate to the option....open for debate.

 

[CAIrishFan]

Especially coming off a torn ACL.

Still, OL isn't geared towards running the option. It's a "pass blocking" setup. The receivers are geared for a pro-style attack. And as someone else mentioned, the TB's aren't triple option material.

Given a few years, I could see Johnson getting the personnel in place. But I don't think ND wants to rebuild for 2-3 years.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

This would be correct. Crist has very good wheels. Now, how that would translate to the option....open for debate.

Crist had very good wheels. He tore his freaking ACL a month ago.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Dude, they are the #5 defense in Yardage, #5 against the run, #5 in points allowed. They haven't had many weak games at all. And Navy scored more than twice the average points that they allowed.

Nevermind.

You're clueless.

Your following post after this one confirmed my suspiscion.

Ohio State has a weak defense against the spread and struggled against the option.

I did not say they have a weak defense in general.

 

[WaveDomer]

Nevermind.

You're clueless.

Your following post after this one confirmed my suspiscion.

Ohio State has a weak defense against the spread and struggled against the option.

I did not say they have a weak defense in general.

Ohio State isn't the only example. Just pull up Georgia Tech's schedule and Navy's schedule and look at some of the defenses they ran over. The option works. You may not like to watch it, but it works. Isn't Georgia Tech in a BCS bowl? So why are we talking about how something successful enough to make a BCS bowl doesn't work? Is this message board existing on an alternate reality or something?

 

[Guest]

A Top20 defense will shut down any Option team. ANY. The game has changed. Defenses have changed. Offenses changed to get ahead of that.

The option died because it was not something that will win titles...or be suitable to use against top teams.

Not to mention the fact that you are inevitably gonna get your QB killed.

You got owned pretty hard in this thread. You may or not be right about the option winning a NC, but otherwise you just got owned.

Thought I would point that out to you

 

[kmoose]

Nevermind.

You're clueless.

Your following post after this one confirmed my suspiscion.

Ohio State has a weak defense against the spread and struggled against the option.

I did not say they have a weak defense in general.

It appears to be YOU, who is clueless. That's been my whole point, all along: Good defenses can have a very difficult time with a well run option offense. And it only became an issue, because LMI tried to say that ANY decent defense would SHUT DOWN any option offense.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Clemson is ranked 22 in defense, so that falls outside your range. But GT beat them twice. North Carolina is ranked 6 in defense. They lost to GT by a lot. VTech is ranked 14 in d and they got beat by GT.

Air Force is ranked 10 in defense and lost to Navy.

Here is the link to defense stats: http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_teamtotdef&site=org&div=IA&dest=O

The option works.

Call me when we are talking about real Top20 defenses...NC pads it's stats with Citadel, Duke, etc.

Clemson's D? Seriously, you think they are good.

Look beyond padded stats.

There is a reason coaches moved away from the option...this is not rocket science. Coaches play the style they believe will most likely win them all the marbles...and there is only one coach in the FBS who seriously thinks he can. Paul Johnson. That's it.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

You got owned pretty hard in this thread. You may or not be right about the option winning a NC, but otherwise you just got owned.

Thought I would point that out to you

Not one bit.

Your inability to see what 115+ Div-I coaches know is an impressive level of denial.

 

[WaveDomer]

Call me when we are talking about real Top20 defenses...NC pads it's stats with Citadel, Duke, etc.

Clemson's D? Seriously, you think they are good.

Look beyond padded stats.

There is a reason coaches moved away from the option...this is not rocket science. Coaches play the style they believe will most likely win them all the marbles...and there is only one coach in the FBS who seriously thinks he can. Paul Johnson. That's it.

Okay, you say "top 20" defense. I name a number of top 20 defenses and your reply is, well they aren't really top 20 defenses. That, my friend, is weak ass sauce.

 

[kmoose]

Call me when we are talking about real Top20 defenses...NC pads it's stats with Citadel, Duke, etc.

Clemson's D? Seriously, you think they are good.

Look beyond padded stats.

There is a reason coaches moved away from the option...this is not rocket science. Coaches play the style they believe will most likely win them all the marbles...and there is only one coach in the FBS who seriously thinks he can. Paul Johnson. That's it.

We've already discussed Ohio State's defense. So, are you saying that Ohio State's D isn't a "real Top 20 defense"?

 

[dskoo65]

We've already discussed Ohio State's defense. So, are you saying that Ohio State's D isn't a "real Top 20 defense"?

maybe top 20. hard to say, but i'd vote no. the big 10 does not have one single team in the top 25 in total offense.

 

[kmoose]

maybe top 20. hard to say, but i'd vote no. the big 10 does not have one single team in the top 25 in total offense.

If you don't think Ohio State has a legitimate Top 20 defense, then you haven't been watching much college football, for the past 10 years or so.

 

[dskoo65]

If you don't think Ohio State has a legitimate Top 20 defense, then you haven't been watching much college football, for the past 10 years or so.

unfortunately, ive been watching college football much longer than that. the big 10 teams are just so anemic on offense, it is hard to say how good OSU's defense really is. very few teams in the conference are proficient at either passing or running, let alone both.

they will play the best offense they have seen in their bowl game. we shall see how their D performs then.

 

[kmoose]

unfortunately, ive been watching college football much longer than that. the big 10 teams are just so anemic on offense, it is hard to say how good OSU's defense really is. very few teams in the conference are proficient at either passing or running, let alone both.

they will play the best offense they have seen in their bowl game. we shall see how their D performs then.

Dude, go look at the numbers on Ohio State's defense, for the last 10 years. In the last 10 years, the Buckeyes D has finished in the Top 20 in scoring defense, every year, including 6 times in the Top 10. They have finished outside of the Top 25 in total defense only twice, in 2001 and 2004. They finished in the Top 15 six times.

But you question whether they are actually good, or just living off of weak offenses? Please.

But this is kind of off on a tangent, there can be NO argument, against Ohio State being a decent defense. And they struggled to stop Navy. THAT was the original debate here.

 

[BGIF]

Crist, Clausen, OSU, Big 10 ...

Why is nobody talking about...Paul Johnson

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Crist, Clausen, OSU, Big 10 ...

Why is nobody talking about...Paul Johnson

What's a "Paul Johnson?" Let's get back to the conversation, OK?

 

[frankton]

No one takes them seriously or preps for them.

No one takes Navy seriously or preps for them? That has to be the funniest post on this thread.

Corwin Brown, is that you?