I believe the fact we are INDEPENDENT has contributed to our collective delusions.

[irishfan]

In a full disclosure, I am a huge college football fan that happens to have Tennessee as my favorite team

So how did Nu’Keese Richardson and Janzen Jackson do yesterday against Ole Miss? If you think that ND doesn't get 8 games with the intensity of a conference game, then you don't know anything about ND football. Every team that plays ND circles that game at the beginning of the year.

 

[NDinL.A.]

For now, I think it can be summed up by the response from the Navy coach after winning this year. Paraphrasing when asked why Navy didn't celebrate like they did in 2007, his said, "There is nothing special about beating Notre Dame, we expected to play well."

Coaches say things that aren't true all the time. If there is nothing special about beating ND, why is it plastered all over ESPN and every other news outlet whenever we lose? It's still front page news basically everywhere, but yet we're supposed to believe it's nothing special? C'mon, be better than that.

And as for the TV contract, as NDMontana already said, you are wrong there. The NBC contract is much more lucrative than Vandy's contract. Night and day, espcially considering the exclusive exposure ND football gets from NBC.

You're right about the BCS $$$ though. Many ND fans think we get more than we do.

Also, you're downplaying all the patsies so many SEC teams play. Have you seen the strength of schedules of your top 2 teams????? ND's strength of schedule is better than both of those teams, especially Bama, and FL won't even go outside their own state to play anybody (the ultimate pussies, sorry). And being ND, we get our opponents' A effort every single damn game. There is no 'letdown' game when teams play us. They don't ever look ahead to next week's opponent, as does happen so much with other teams. Even when it seems our schedule is weak, like this year, the numbers prove it isn't...

 

[devolg]

Hello Match! (mentioning joining a conference)

Meet Gasoline! (a forum full of loyal ND football fans)

 

[kmoose]

And being ND, we get our opponents' A effort every single damn game. There is no 'letdown' game when teams play us. They don't ever look ahead to next week's opponent, as does happen so much with other teams. Even when it seems our schedule is weak, like this year, the numbers prove it isn't...

I know what you are trying to say, NDinL.A., but honestly........you don't think Florida gets everyone's A game, as well? I would be shocked, if anyone is looking past Florida, on their schedule.

 

[jason_h537]

I know what you are trying to say, NDinL.A., but honestly........you don't think Florida gets everyone's A game, as well? I would be shocked, if anyone is looking past Florida, on their schedule.

True but Florida and USC (had at least), the intimidation factor. Teams like UGA and LSU give them their best shot but Vandy is just hoping to keep up. Notre Dame is not in Purdues and Navy's head hoping they can make it a game. They actually believe they can win

 

[NDinL.A.]

I know what you are trying to say, NDinL.A., but honestly........you don't think Florida gets everyone's A game, as well? I would be shocked, if anyone is looking past Florida, on their schedule.

Oh, I agree with that, but getting Florida International and The Citadel's best game is a whole lot different than getting Purdue and Michigan State's best game. Week in and week out this year, ND has had to play a decent to good to great team, with the exception of Wazzou (and when the game was scheduled, Wazzou was a good team who has been highly ranked this decade). The same cannot be said of Florida and Bama's schedules...

 

[NDMontana]

I know what you are trying to say, NDinL.A., but honestly........you don't think Florida gets everyone's A game, as well? I would be shocked, if anyone is looking past Florida, on their schedule.

I'm sure they do but is Southwestern Central Florida Community College of Ft. Lauderdale's A game as good as Pitt, Michigan, MSU, Navy, USC....I doubt it.

 

[BGIF]

In a full disclosure, I am a huge college football fan that happens to have Tennessee as my favorite team and I lam an alumni of Georgia Tech. That out of the way, I find it amazing ...

What's amazing is you didn't think sitting two blocks from Ben Hill Griffin Stadium was relevant to "full disclosure".

Say hello to Urbie!

 

[volray]

What's amazing is you didn't think sitting two blocks from Ben Hill Griffin Stadium was relevant to "full disclosure".

Say hello to Urbie!

Actually, it is about 15 blocks, but I disclosed that I was a UT fan, not a Florida fan. So me being in Gainesville, FL, has nothing to do with it. So to respond to some of the comments above:

1. If you don't think that Vandy thinks they can beat Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, etc., you don't really know SEC football. I can guarantee you that in the recent years, even Vandy thinks they can beat the other SEC teams. Yes, they had more success last year than this year.

2. What does Nu'keese, Jackson, and Edwards have to do with this conversation about ND football? I didn't know they played for ND, even though at least two of them were recruited by ND.

3. Yes, the ESPN deal is for all sports, but if you think ESPN paid a lot of money for the rights to women's soccer, I have a bridge for sell. Everyone knows that the bulk of the money is for the football schedule with a smaller portion for men's basketball and a still smaller portion for baseball. Doesn't change the picture much. And $11 million is just what Vandy gets from the ESPN TV contract. CBS is chipping in another $55 million per year for one game a week. PLus there was almost $30 million in bowl revenue. Think about how much ND would bring to the Big 10 as a conference member. Plus, they would get to play Indiana, Northwestern, and Minnesota every year along with Navy and Air Force.

However, all of this distracts from the original discussion. ND has been almost a non-factor at the national level since 1988 (last consensus MNC) and some support in 1989 and 1993. A series of questionable decisions on coaches for the premiere program in the country (and I am not joking on that) has left things in less than top shelf. As hard as it may be for ND fans to understand, the football program gets more media coverage and credit than any other program in the country. It gets votes for things that no other program in the country gets. This is partially represented by overreaching by bowl selection committees represented by 9 straight losses before last's years matchup against Hawaii. It should be the dream job of almost every coach and player in the country. Yet it isn't! The question that the ND administration needs to ask is, "Why not?"

Not being an insider of Urbie's mind, it is my understanding that he has no interest in the ND job. They fired Willingham hoping to get Meyer, then were outmaneuvered. Name the last really top flight coach they had? Lou Holtz? But I digress again. Why did ND finally agree to be in the Big East for basketball (and all other sports?) Why wasn't being an independent good for those sports if it was good enough for football?

So, if you are in it solely for the money, go for the independent status, hope to beat USC every other year, and be in contention for a MNC every so often. Right now, an undefeated SEC champion and an undefeated Big 12 champion will be playing for the MNC over any other undefeated teams from any other conference or ND. Notre Dame in the Big 10 would put that conference in a similar status.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

Thank you BGIF, for leaving the thread open. Regardless, of how ridiculous a topic is, we should keep it open, providing it is a topic of civility. Then let the forum decide whether it is worthy of response.

Granted we have not been a powerhouse for some time. About as long as our defense has been on sabatical. But even the great teams that are competing for the National Championships in recent years had been dogged in mediocrity before returning to the top. Not one of them is an independent.

1. Alabama.
2. USC
3. Oklahoma
4. Texas
5. Ohio State.
5. Florida

And what of teams that were frequently in the chase for a National Championship that have not made a serious run in some time themselves. Again, not one of them is idependent.

1. Michigan
2. Penn State
3. Texas A&M
4. Nebraska
5. Tenneesee
6. Miami
7. Florida State
8. Auburn

Being independent has no bearing on whether we are good or bad. Other teams win with less talent than we have, right now. We have lost 4 games. We are probably more talented than three of them. Definetly two. Our defense has been a non factor since Bob Davie became the defensive coordinator. We have changed coaches & scored points on offense. but have not consistantly stopped anyone in years. That is the common denominator. In 2005, When we had Quinn, and company we lost badly to Ohio State 34-20 in a BCS Bowl. We lost to Michigan State 44-41 in OT, and USC 34-31. In 2006, again with Quinn and company we lost badly to LSU 41-14 in a BCS Bowl. We lost to Michigan 47-21, and USC 44-24. Why? In the two BCS Bowls, we played teams with good offenses but they also had excellent defenses we came only with a good offense and couldn't compete. Again, Why? Because, good defenses give their offense the ball for two or three more possesions per game. This makes the offense even more prolific.

Imagine, if in the 4 losses this year if the Irish had the ball two or three more possesions, than what they actually had and take away just 7 points per game for the other teams because the defense actually stopped them from scoring. Then add 7-10 points to ND score because of their prolific offense. I realize this is the same ole "If if's and buts were candy and nuts" But this is what good defenses do. Some of the better teams that have lost to Florida and Alabama this year have given them the ball one or two more times too much. And has nothing to do with being in a conference or not.

Championships will return to Notre Dame, when the defense returns to Notre Dame.

 

[tankjeep]

Thank you BGIF, for leaving the thread open. Regardless, of how ridiculous a topic is, we should keep it open, providing it is a topic of civility. Then let the forum decide whether it is worthy of response.

Granted we have not been a powerhouse for some time. About as long as our defense has been on sabatical. But even the great teams that are competing for the National Championships in recent years had been dogged in mediocrity before returning to the top. Not one of them is an independent.

1. Alabama.
2. USC
3. Oklahoma
4. Texas
5. Ohio State.
5. Florida

And what of teams that were frequently in the chase for a National Championship that have not made a serious run in some time themselves. Again, not one of them is idependent.

1. Michigan
2. Penn State
3. Texas A&M
4. Nebraska
5. Tenneesee
6. Miami
7. Florida State
8. Auburn

Being independent has no bearing on whether we are good or bad. Other teams win with less talent than we have, right now. We have lost 4 games. We are probably more talented than three of them. Definetly two. Our defense has been a non factor since Bob Davie became the defensive coordinator. We have changed coaches & scored points on offense. but have not consistantly stopped anyone in years. That is the common denominator. In 2005, When we had Quinn, and company we lost badly to Ohio State 34-20 in a BCS Bowl. We lost to Michigan State 44-41 in OT, and USC 34-31. In 2006, again with Quinn and company we lost badly to LSU 41-14 in a BCS Bowl. We lost to Michigan 47-21, and USC 44-24. We lost a close games to USC and Michigan State. (But we gave up too many points.) Why? We played teams with good offenses but they also had excellent defenses we came only with a good offense and couldn't compete. Again, Why? Because, good defenses give their offense the ball for two or three more possesions per game. This makes the offense even more prolific.

Imagine, if in the 4 losses this year if the Irish had the ball two or three more possesions, than what they actually had and take away just 7 points per game for the other teams because the defense actually stopped them from scoring. Then add 7-10 points to ND score because of their prolific offense. I realize this is the same ole "If if's and buts were candy and nuts" But this is what good defenses do. Some of the better teams that have lost to Florida and Alabama this year have given them the ball one or two more times too much. And has nothing to do with being in a conference or not.

Championships will return to Notre Dame, when the defense returns to Notre Dame.

exactly. being in a conference has no bearing on wins or losses.

 

[thetuna]

The Sun Times thinks we should join a conference. Apparently so does the faculty. Never heard that before.

Irish must think inside their box :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Colleges

 

[JefMaj]

If we were in a conference we could play a schedule with a SOS in the 60's or 70's (as opposed to where we will end up - top 20) and be as rellevent as OSU or Penn St. with 2 losses.

 

[dskoo65]

If we were in a conference we could play a schedule with a SOS in the 60's or 70's (as opposed to where we will end up - top 20) and be as rellevent as OSU or Penn St. with 2 losses.

..or if nd played in the SEC , they would play a schedule ranked 26 (arkansas), 22 (LSU), 17 (georgia), 15 (south carolina), or 9 (mississippi st)...even florida and alabama will be in the upper 20's after they play each other....ND's current rank is at or below most of those.

...how about the pac-10, schedule ranking of 3 (oregon), 6 (usc), 24 (oregon st), 13 (stanford), 14 (cal), 7 (arizona), 10 (ucla), 20 (az st), 2 (wash st), or 1 (washington)...nd's schedule is below all of those. heaven forbid if ND had played in the pac 10 this year.

the big 10 and big 12 arent as strong this year, but there are plenty of years where they are stronger. me thinks ND would have had an equally rough time, and probably worse, if they were playing in the pac 10, SEC, big 10, or big 12 over the past 15 years.

yes ND should stay independent, so they can have stretches on their schedule like navy-tulsa-western michigan-utah-army.

2010 schedule (and just for fun their current ranking)

Purdue (unranked)
Michigan (unranked)
Michigan st (unranked)
Stanford (unranked)
BC (unranked)
Pitt ( 9th)
Navy (unranked)
Tulsa (unranked)
Western Michigan (unranked)
Utah (unranked
Army (unranked)
USC (20th)

 

[thetuna]

..or if nd played in the SEC , they would play a schedule ranked 26 (arkansas), 22 (LSU), 17 (georgia), 15 (south carolina), or 9 (mississippi st)...even florida and alabama will be in the upper 20's after they play each other....ND's current rank is at or below most of those.

...how about the pac-10, schedule ranking of 3 (oregon), 6 (usc), 24 (oregon st), 13 (stanford), 14 (cal), 7 (arizona), 10 (ucla), 20 (az st), 2 (wash st), or 1 (washington)...nd's schedule is below all of those. heaven forbid if ND had played in the pac 10 this year.

the big 10 and big 12 arent as strong this year, but there are plenty of years where they are stronger. me thinks ND would have had an equally rough time, and probably worse, if they were playing in the pac 10, SEC, big 10, or big 12 over the past 15 years.

yes ND should stay independent, so they can have stretches on their schedule like navy-tulsa-western michigan-utah-army.

2010 schedule (and just for fun their current ranking)

Purdue (unranked)
Michigan (unranked)
Michigan st (unranked)
Stanford (unranked)
BC (unranked)
Pitt ( 9th)
Navy (unranked)
Tulsa (unranked)
Western Michigan (unranked)
Utah (unranked
Army (unranked)
USC (20th)

Good points.