Dayne Crist

[jason_h537]

Its alot easier to adjust a gameplan when something is NOT working. As for the 3rd quarter of Purdue the wildcat was rolling until Kamara kept getting flagged and we still held the ball for 12 minutes.

I too wish that Dayne could have thrown more but its over now.

Dayne will be a solid QB for us but he is not Jimmy. He has more speed and probably a stronger arm but he looks like a gunslinger.

 

[kmoose]

Charlie is afriad right now for his job which i understand but playing conservatively isn't going to continue to get the job done. Dayne knows enough of the offense now to win games.

I get what you are saying, but the question I have is not "does he know enough of the offense?" My question is "Can he execute enough of the offense?" I don't know the answer to that, and I doubt that anyone else on here actually knows the answer, either. At some point, you have to trust that the coaching staff knows more about these kids' abilities than we do. I can only conclude that the coaches did not trust Crist enough, to open up the offense.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Lol - NDs schedule is ranked 34th blah blah.

Seriously? I always see people resort to these schedule rankings as a crutch, lets face the actual reality of it. Notre Dame basically plays USC and I think Stanford has a solid team this year. Michigan is a little surprising but after all is said and done I think they lose to the decent teams from the big 10 upcoming.

Crist threw 10 passes in the game, about 3 of them were past the line of scrimmage. Lets not play the "he threw 40% blah blah" we all saw the game, he played almost 3/4ths of the game and threw 16 less passes than Clausen did. If you want to fool your own eyes then go for it, he basically wasnt allowed to throw the ball. Thats all I was asking - why?

Then you go into into the Demetrius Jones vs Crist thing pull out numbers etc etc etc. All im saying is that Crist ran a "spread" or "wildcat" which was what Jones did in that 30 minutes of a ND career. Simple analogy, dont read too much into it.

Lastly, if you think the way ND has played thus far meets or exceeds expectations had for this year - all the power to you. Thats fine. All I know is that im seeing the same team from last year. They were 7-6. I dont see us beating USC, dont see winning at Pitt, dont see winning at Stanford. I think Jake Locker poses a massive problem for ND Saturday and he is basically a "big boy" Tate Forcier.

You can shred me and gang up on me for not drinking it all down but I see what I see.

See your problem is you're wrong so much, then you either ignore the fact about how wrong you were or you brush it off as blah blah blah.

Let's talk about strength of schedule. YOU brought it up, and then you got burned by it. You think I'd rather listen to you over a guy like Phil Steele who is consistently the top guy to look at when it comes to these things? But I bring it up, from someone who is impartial, and it's blah blah blah. Sorry, YOU brought it up, and YOU were way off on our schedule.

You also claimed that Crist had only one drive that was effective...AND THAT WAS WHAT THIS THREAD WAS ALL ABOUT, LOL. Then when it's pointed out to you how horribly wrong you were (dude, did you even watch the game? Again, is a TD not effective to you? What about keeping the ball for 12 minutes out of 15? I'm thoroughly confused by your definition of the word 'effective'), you ignore it and go off on CW. Nice strategy. When you're pathetically wrong....change the subject!

As for you asking about Crist throwing the ball down the field...I already answered that, but you ignored it. You bring up USC. Well, they had a redshirt sophomore who's been in the same offense for 3 years vs. Washington, and they were losing and still wouldn't throw the ball down field. They had Barkley vs. OSU, and they didn't let him throw the ball until the last drive WHEN IT WAS NEEDED. Like I said, it's called having a clue. You keep ignoring this. QB is perhaps the toughest position in all of sports. You don't throw a kid out there in his first meaningful minutes, on the road, when the run is working so beautifully and you have a lead, and ask him to go win the game with his arm. You simply don't do it. If you're down, then yes. But when you're winning on the road, and your defense hasn't given up a point since the 1st drive, you stay within your game plan. How can you not see that? It's coaching 101. Just because a QB is good in h.s. doesn't mean he's going to smoke everyone in college. And we play in a pro style offense, not the easy read spread defense.

It's fine to have a dissenting opinion, and I'm not going to gang up on you. Lots of people here want Weis gone. All I'm saying is that you're wrong with the effectiveness of the offense under Crist. Way wrong. And as for opening up the offense for a redshirt freshman playing his first meaningful minutes on the road, sorry, we just disagree on that one, completely...

 

[NDinL.A.]

Hate to say it but weis bank is pretty close to 100% accurate.

We held the ball because we were scared, simply. And yes 5 star recruits come out of high school and play and do well in some cases if the o-line is solid which ours is. Hinze Matt Barkley who went into the horseshoe and won the game in the last drive. Our coach did not let him throw some passes, even safe to build his confidence. It is not that hard to throw a drag route or slant to our receivers against a horrible purdue defense. Come on guys. And with the expectations talk, losers adjust their expectations to avoid failure not winners. Notre dame has gotten the same quality of players as some of the top programs in recent years but just haven't produced wins. we held the ball for 12 min. to avoid any mistakes. Don't know about you but I don't play anything not to lose, i play to win. Now i know some are going to say do you coach, have you threw a college pass, have you blah blah? Notre dame did not have 80% of it's offense on the bench. 3 players were missing. The qb is the most important of course but the oline should be able to open holes for any running back on our roster and block for any qb to throw a good pass, especially against horrible purdue.

Charlie is afriad right now for his job which i understand but playing conservatively isn't going to continue to get the job done. Dayne knows enough of the offense now to win games.

Not lookin to make enemies, just stating opinion. The good thing is that were all nd fans and can talk wisely. And sometimes people can agree to disagree.

Actually, he's not close to 100% right. Not even close. Read my post above.

As for Barkley, you must have not seen that game. I saw the entire OSU game. He was bottled up the entire game by Poodle and co. He never threw the ball downfield, and he was under 50% all game, and he threw an awful pick. They ran and ran and ran the ball, as they've done all season long. Even against San Jose St, all Barkley threw were hitches and roll-out dump offs, and then his receivers did the rest.

The only time Barkley was asked to throw the ball, was on the last drive, and only once did he throw the ball downfield (a beautiful throw to his TE). The reason? THEY WERE LOSING AND IT WAS EITHER THROW OR LOSE. Well, Crist never had to throw out of necessity. He came in, and we ran the ball down the throats for 2 straight drives. Then in the 3rd, with the lead, we kept running, but we mixed in some throws. It chewed major time off the clock, but we couldn't score. But we were still winning.

You don't ask a redshirt freshman to win a game for you on the road, not when you're winning and the defense it stifling the other team. When we started losing, Clausen came on and saved the day. As I stated above, you have no idea how difficult the QB position is if you're asking a redshirt freshman to win a tight ballgame in a hostile environment (yes, Purdue is hostile), when it is not needed. You don't put him in a position to fail by asking him to do things he might not yet be comfortable with.

There's a reason freshmen QB's usually don't play...

 

[NDinL.A.]

And one more thing while I'm on the subject LOL. Crist did get to throw the ball when we were winning, and he missed a throw that would have put the game away most likely:

It's the 4th quarter, we're up 17-14, and he lets Crist play for the last time I think. He calls a great play action and Golden Tate is wide open for a td, but what happens? Crist overthrows Tate by a country mile, and it's 2nd and long. So Weis goes to something that had worked very well and that is Tate in the wildcat, Purdue shuts it down and we are in 3rd and long, leading to another Crist incompletion.

But like I said earlier, the guys who look to kill Weis for everything tend to overlook these types of things because it ruins their argument. Weis isn't God's gift to playcalling, but it's the one thing I don't worry about with him...

 

[weisbank4]

Originally Posted by weisbank4
Oh really? So ND fans who expected NC's every year back in the 90's were stuck in the 60's?

its 2009, get with the times and open your eyes. Ronald Reagan isnt the president anymore....are you still expecting reagonomics to bail you out too??? The president has changed, the economy has changed, and Notre Dame has changed; but you havent. are you still wearing OP shorts, Vans slip-ons, playing hacky sack and listening to Lynard Skynard???


Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbank4
...But I could see "adjusting" expectations. After all they only have their own football network....

are you hating on ND for pimping NBC? Does playing on NBC somehow translate to wins on the field?? please explain....by the way, expectations werent adjusted because of ND's contract with NBC, it changed from all the boneheaded coaching hiring/firings that left this program in shambles. But I dont have to tell you that...


Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbank4
...a national following...

its a love/hate relationship, much like the Yankees, it us against the world. not that nationally we are the most popular I would make the argument that there is more ND hate to deal with nationally, then any other program.


Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbank4
.....national recruiting base.....

from 1996 to till 2005 where was this recruiting base??? this is just coming back, it left when Holtz left. Weis is the only coach since Holtz to rebuild our recruiting base, but you knew that already.


Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbank4
....more myth and legend.....

this is exactly what weis is getting rid of, no more chasing ND myths and legends(leave that shit to the Davie's and Willingham's of the world). Weis is cutting out his own legacy, and it has nothing to do with the past. Have you even paid attention in the last 5 years?


Quote:
Originally Posted by weisbank4
Yes, forgive me for not "adjusting"

No reason to ask for forgiveness, if you want to live in the 80's by all means, knock yourself out. But dont bitch, moan, and complain that Holtz isnt the coach, Rice isnt the QB, and Chris Zorich is not the NG.

its the 21st century, get with it or get left behind.





Reaganomics? Anyway, Reagan wasnt in office in the 90's but the 90's are too close to the 2000s and that wouldnt help your argument. If youve adjusted your expectations to provide yourself an excuse then thats your perogative. The funny thing is that I bet Weis himself would disagree with your adjustment being he said "were done losing to the Purdues and Michigan States" when he came in. Doesnt sound like he would even agree with this and he stands to gain the most from adjusting expectations down.

If USC followed this example I doubt they would be the powerhouse they have been for the last 8 or 9 years would they? They had very pedestrian teams during the bulk of the 90's only to come back and dominate the 2000's.

Lastly, why are people asking for me to be banned? I love ND and I dont accept the mediocrity. Is this a problem? Right now Weis' recruiting classes at the top warrant a top 10 team and we are outside the top 30. Its not right. If you cant see it then youre just lying to yourself.

 

[adsnorri]

Like you said about barkley, throw swing passes, slants, roll outs in order to keep the defense guessing. Dayne is a year ahead of barkley and usc doesn't run a spread-read em' offense either. We almost lost that game because Dayne didn't throw the ball. I know we won, but not because we controlled the ball in the third quarter but because Jimmy saved our ass. If we open up the playbook a little, jimmy doesn't need to come in and save our ass. I'm not saying that dayne knows 100% of the offense but he has learned enough through a year and a half to throw some balls. I understand we need to run the clock when were in the lead but we also need to score at the end of the drive. We can't continuously run the ball down their throats because they will load the box and eventually stuff the run and put us in 3rd and longs and 4th and longs like they did. Once your in a situation like 3rd and long, throwing the ball is hard to do. And may i ask why we went for it on 4th and ten and ran the ball? kick field goal or punt or pass. If weis calls a play action, roll out dump off to tate or rudolph instead of a low percentage bomb to tate, the game would not have been that close. do you agree or disagree?

 

[a.van2eman]

he didnt let him throw the ball because charlie was playing not to make mistakes, they were trying to control the clock and plus dayne is inexperienced and u could see he was nervous

 

[NDinL.A.]

Like you said about barkley, throw swing passes, slants, roll outs in order to keep the defense guessing. Dayne is a year ahead of barkley and usc doesn't run a spread-read em' offense either. We almost lost that game because Dayne didn't throw the ball. I know we won, but not because we controlled the ball in the third quarter but because Jimmy saved our ass. If we open up the playbook a little, jimmy doesn't need to come in and save our ass. I'm not saying that dayne knows 100% of the offense but he has learned enough through a year and a half to throw some balls. I understand we need to run the clock when were in the lead but we also need to score at the end of the drive. We can't continuously run the ball down their throats because they will load the box and eventually stuff the run and put us in 3rd and longs and 4th and longs like they did. Once your in a situation like 3rd and long, throwing the ball is hard to do. And may i ask why we went for it on 4th and ten and ran the ball? kick field goal or punt or pass. If weis calls a play action, roll out dump off to tate or rudolph instead of a low percentage bomb to tate, the game would not have been that close. do you agree or disagree?

I disagree, respectfully so.

Those roll-outs and swing passes by Barkley and Crist weren't thrown to keep the defense guessing, they were thrown because they didn't want to risk the QB's turning it over. Corp has a year on Crist, and they did the same thing with him that they did with Barkley. And again, Barkley sucked UNTIL THEY OPENED THE OFFENSE for one single drive. And they still haven't opened up the offense against a good team all year.

There was no reason for Weis to risk opening up the offense to a freshman QB who has never played real minutes, on the road with a ten point lead. Then, he does open up the offense after Purdue cuts the lead to 3, and he misses a wide-open Golden Tate. Where's the love for CW for drawing up a fantastic play? A wide-open fly route shouldn't be low risk for a '5 star QB', but of course, things change when you are young and on the road. And there was another incompletion on 3rd down as well. But people put that on Charlie, because, well, they simply don't like him.

As for 4th and 10, tough call. I didn't like the run either. You can't ask your freshman kicker to kick a 51 yarder on the road, sorry, that's a bad call that he would have villified for. And to punt, with our punter being soooooooo bad, I don't blame him for not ounting either, although that probably would've been the best call and I won't argue with those who think he should've punted. I did disagree with the run call. In your case, a roll-out to Tate and Rudolph would not have worked in my opinion because they were bracketing those guys all night, and cutting off half of the field would have made it even tougher to complete. However, it would have been better than the run, I agree with you there...

 

[weisbank4]

You punt on 4th and 10. The defense was playing good, make Purdue drive on you. 4th and 10 with Crist on a run play has about a 5% chance of working. This is what I dont get about Weis, you weigh the 2 options and it isnt a hard choice. At the worst the punt is a touchback and you bought back 15 yards of field position, at best maybe its downed at the 2. Likely it is fair caught at the 10. Its some of these odd calls that baffle me.

 

[kmoose]

You punt on 4th and 10. The defense was playing good, make Purdue drive on you. 4th and 10 with Crist on a run play has about a 5% chance of working. This is what I dont get about Weis, you weigh the 2 options and it isnt a hard choice. At the worst the punt is a touchback and you bought back 15 yards of field position, at best maybe its downed at the 2. Likely it is fair caught at the 10. Its some of these odd calls that baffle me.

The defense playing well is just another reason TO go for it on 4th down. At the worst, the punt is blocked and Purdue gains even MORE field position than the sack got them. It was not a running play, it was a pass. Crist was flushed out of the pocket, if that is what you meant. But I don't know where you are getting that Weis called a QB run on 4th and 10? I, just like you, have no way of knowing what the logic was, in going for it on 4th and 10, but I have a guess... I think Charlie knew that he was bringing Clausen back in to start the 4th quarter, and decided to give Crist one last chance to make a big play. Maybe the long snapper was puking on the sidelines, and the coaches didn't want to try to punt. Maybe Maust had some tightness in his hamstring (that would explain his crappy night, maybe?), and the coaches didn't want to try to punt. Maybe Joe Tiller snuck down from the TV booth and had a knife at Maura Weis' throat, blackmailing Charlie into going for it. My point is..............one of the things that I have learned, in my 30-ish years of following football: there are a lot of times when coaches make decisions that seem to fly in the face of logic. But often, if you are lucky enough to hear their rationale for the decision, knowing what they knew, you can see where the decision made sense.

 

[NDinL.A.]

You punt on 4th and 10. The defense was playing good, make Purdue drive on you. 4th and 10 with Crist on a run play has about a 5% chance of working. This is what I dont get about Weis, you weigh the 2 options and it isnt a hard choice. At the worst the punt is a touchback and you bought back 15 yards of field position, at best maybe its downed at the 2. Likely it is fair caught at the 10. Its some of these odd calls that baffle me.

You weren't watching the same game i was watching. Likely the ball was caught at the 10? No way is that the highest percentage! Maust kept kicking the ball so short the gunners and everybody else were outrunning the ball, and the kick returner would catch the ball on the dead run with half the team behind him. That happened twice. That should never happen. It's embarrassing how bad the punting was. Who knows what happens there, but the 10 yard line was not the most likely outcome. The most likely outcome was that the kick would have been low and short, and he would have had to time to return it.

As for people calling for your banning, that's not me. I just responded to your thread that was completely wrong, and you have yet to admit how wrong you were, only changing the subject multiple times to mask that. Opinions are one thing (your opinion to punt is fine) and they make for great discussion, but flat-out saying things that aren't true will definitely be met with criticism, as it should be...

 

[TDHeysus]

Reaganomics? Anyway, Reagan wasnt in office in the 90's but the 90's are too close to the 2000s and that wouldnt help your argument.

Huh??? ..../sigh

My point was your living in the past....as in the team that whoever used to see (your father, uncle, whoever) is long gone. it doesnt exist anymore, and you cant let it go. Your hanging on the past...set it down, let it go. It's long gone. Holtz, Rice, Zorich, Lyght...they're all gone now.

If USC followed this example I doubt they would be the powerhouse they have been for the last 8 or 9 years would they? They had very pedestrian teams during the bulk of the 90's only to come back and dominate the 2000's.

Yes, after the 90's they adopted a win at all cost attitude and started going after the old miami hurricane type players. Now since PTC took over, you can find USC players on teh police blotter nightly. Drug arrests, violence against women, sexual charges against women (hello mark sanchez) dont make me bust out the 42 point bulletin of players that have been arrested/charged for major offenses since 2003 at USC. You want ND to sell the souls like USC did to win? I mean, you bring up USC as an example, implying that ND should follow the same path. no thanks. There is right way to do things and a wrong way, its up to you, make your choice.

OJ Mayo
Reggie Bu$h
Robert Guillory

are you saying that we need more Robert Guillory's around? ...if you dont know, look it up

PS - the quote feature, learn to use it - its your friend.

 

[weisbank4]

TDHeysus, no offense but your attitude is piss poor. I dont really know why you waste your time posting or following if you've accepted mediocrity and just caqll everyone else who contends cheaters.

How am I living in the past because I expect Notre Dame to contend for national championships? You dont go to ND to hope for a outside shot at a BCS game or go to the effin Hawaii Bowl do you? Is that what these recruits are signing up for?

Its such a cliche to start up with the "police blotter" stuff. Gimme a break.

I know you poo poo'd my list of advantages Notre Dame holds and chopped them all into separate bits so they wouldnt seem coherent but the fact remains that ND has its own network, national recruiting base, mystique and prestigous standing as a football powerhouse. This is NOW, not in the "past" so stop making excuses for the mediocrity. Im sure on national signing day you've seen Notre Dames classes with a real high number assigned to them in recent years. This is the here and now, not the past.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

Weisbank4, I hate to say it, but you make way less sense than I do, and that's extremely difficult (ask anyone else in the IE community)

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

TDHeysus, no offense but your attitude is piss poor. I dont really know why you waste your time posting or following if you've accepted mediocrity and just caqll everyone else who contends cheaters.

How am I living in the past because I expect Notre Dame to contend for national championships? You dont go to ND to hope for a outside shot at a BCS game or go to the effin Hawaii Bowl do you? Is that what these recruits are signing up for?

Its such a cliche to start up with the "police blotter" stuff. Gimme a break.

I know you poo poo'd my list of advantages Notre Dame holds and chopped them all into separate bits so they wouldnt seem coherent but the fact remains that ND has its own network, national recruiting base, mystique and prestigous standing as a football powerhouse. This is NOW, not in the "past" so stop making excuses for the mediocrity. Im sure on national signing day you've seen Notre Dames classes with a real high number assigned to them in recent years. This is the here and now, not the past.

I don't think he is making excuses and I know, for certain, his attitude is not piss poor. You have to consider that it takes time to get back to the summit. I don't recall the exact statistics, but if our coifers had been stripped because of NCAA sanctions and not Ty Golfinghams recruiting ineptitude (meaning if the former caused our lack of players instead of the latter) it would have constituted something like the 3rd or 4th worst penalty the NCAA has ever imposed (or something along those lines - I don't have the exact number, but you get the idea). That is a serious hit. Worse than SC's rise from being a "pedestrian" team to now. Worse than Alabama's rise from NCAA oblivion. And ND had to do it without resorting to the use of JUCO transfers and while still being restricted by some of the toughest academic and admission standards in the nation.

You can't just say that we have had a bunch of highly rated recruiting classes ergo we should be contending for the National Championship right now. Just like you can't say we aren't dominating with those classes yet, so Coach Weis is a terrible coach and must be fired. Although the reasons have been hashed and re-hashed countless times here and on other sites, you still can't deny the fact that ND has significant restrictions that other schools do not have to worry about.

You mention the "police blotter", but do you think recruits don't see what happens at ND with situations with Will Yeatman and Joseph Fauria et al? You don't think that plays in to some of their decisions on where to attend? I can go to SC, live near the beach, and actually have fun and maybe be a college student in my spare time or I can go to freeze-your-balls-off-Windi-ana, actually have to go to class (real classes) and do well and then possibly get benched if I am caught having a beer. Hmmmm.

It matters. You can't tell me it doesn't.

 

[weisbank4]

Dont sell yourself short weisweisbaby - just look at the ESPN ND board, a place where either of us would be king for the simple fact we own a computer!

 

[weisbank4]

You can't just say that we have had a bunch of highly rated recruiting classes ergo we should be contending for the National Championship right now. Just like you can't say we aren't dominating with those classes yet, so Coach Weis is a terrible coach and must be fired. Although the reasons have been hashed and re-hashed countless times here and on other sites, you still can't deny the fact that ND has significant restrictions that other schools do not have to worry about.

You mention the "police blotter", but do you think recruits don't see what happens at ND with situations with Will Yeatman and Joseph Fauria et al? You don't think that plays in to some of their decisions on where to attend? I can go to SC, live near the beach, and actually have fun and maybe be a college student in my spare time or I can go to freeze-your-balls-off-Windi-ana, actually have to go to class (real classes) and do well and then possibly get benched if I am caught having a beer. Hmmmm.

It matters. You can't tell me it doesn't.


I never said fire Weis. Hes had 5 years so these are all his kids....what are you suggesting is a fair amount of time to get back to the summit? You just ripped Golfingham yet it was Golfinghams recruits that made 2 BCS games at last check. Please dont say Im a Ty supporter either because I ripped that guy up and down and dealt with all these BS over at ESPN.com for it and all the racist BS and everything else for 3 solid years at least.

I dont think the Yeatman and Fauria stuff plays into the decision at all. I do think weather might have some effect but we have a Hawaiian, Floridians, Texans, and Californians on the team - all key players. So how much does the weather matter?

The academic standards, tell me a recruit on the board that didnt make it due to the standards? All I can think of was Noel Devine from years back. Further back yet, Randy Moss who slid off everybodies board bc of behavior.

 

[NDinL.A.]

You can't just say that we have had a bunch of highly rated recruiting classes ergo we should be contending for the National Championship right now. Just like you can't say we aren't dominating with those classes yet, so Coach Weis is a terrible coach and must be fired. Although the reasons have been hashed and re-hashed countless times here and on other sites, you still can't deny the fact that ND has significant restrictions that other schools do not have to worry about.

You mention the "police blotter", but do you think recruits don't see what happens at ND with situations with Will Yeatman and Joseph Fauria et al? You don't think that plays in to some of their decisions on where to attend? I can go to SC, live near the beach, and actually have fun and maybe be a college student in my spare time or I can go to freeze-your-balls-off-Windi-ana, actually have to go to class (real classes) and do well and then possibly get benched if I am caught having a beer. Hmmmm.

It matters. You can't tell me it doesn't.


I never said fire Weis. Hes had 5 years so these are all his kids....what are you suggesting is a fair amount of time to get back to the summit? You just ripped Golfingham yet it was Golfinghams recruits that made 2 BCS games at last check. Please dont say Im a Ty supporter either because I ripped that guy up and down and dealt with all these BS over at ESPN.com for it and all the racist BS and everything else for 3 solid years at least.

I dont think the Yeatman and Fauria stuff plays into the decision at all. I do think weather might have some effect but we have a Hawaiian, Floridians, Texans, and Californians on the team - all key players. So how much does the weather matter?

The academic standards, tell me a recruit on the board that didnt make it due to the standards? All I can think of was Noel Devine from years back. Further back yet, Randy Moss who slid off everybodies board bc of behavior.

Guys don't even make the board because of academics. Happens ALL THE TIME. You think Rey Rey from USC was on our board once we saw his transcripts? There's guys THIS YEAR that can't pass admissions, so they weren't offered schollies (Dominique Easley, for one; Anthony Jefferson from L.A. wasn't offered at first b/c of his S.A.T. score. It goes on and on.) To say it doesn't make a huge difference is naive at best. There are so many guys that Alabama gets that ND can't even recruit, especially along the defensive line.

As for the weather, it definitely makes a difference. You think Urban Meyer wouldn't harp on it all the time while he negatively recruits against us if he didn't think it made a difference? He talks about all the things that you think aren't important in recruiting, and he's not the only coach who does that. Yeah, not all kids listen to it, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think those things come into play. Shoot, Prater came down here to SoCal in August for the first time, and a week later he was a Trojan.

ND definitely has its selling points, but all in all CW is fighting an uphill battle, no doubt, but he and the coaches have done a tremendous job getting in quality recruits. Now it's time for the recruits to start paying dividends...

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I never said fire Weis. Hes had 5 years so these are all his kids....what are you suggesting is a fair amount of time to get back to the summit? You just ripped Golfingham yet it was Golfinghams recruits that made 2 BCS games at last check. Please dont say Im a Ty supporter either because I ripped that guy up and down and dealt with all these BS over at ESPN.com for it and all the racist BS and everything else for 3 solid years at least.

I dont think the Yeatman and Fauria stuff plays into the decision at all. I do think weather might have some effect but we have a Hawaiian, Floridians, Texans, and Californians on the team - all key players. So how much does the weather matter?

The academic standards, tell me a recruit on the board that didnt make it due to the standards? All I can think of was Noel Devine from years back. Further back yet, Randy Moss who slid off everybodies board bc of behavior.

First of all, yeah...you reeeealllly gotta work on the use of the quote feature.

The Yeatman and Fauria stuff do matter. Compare the stories of "bad" (ie normal college) behavior at other schools and then compare the stories of "bad" behavior at ND. Players get suspended at ND for stuff that is so minor at other schools and prospective players see that. Maybe they choose not to be under the ResLife microscope for their whole four years. Plus, ND students actually have to GO to class and do well. Other schools have much easier curriculums for athletes and much lower admissions standards in the first place.

And as far as recruits that didn't make it because academic standards, the recruits that don't qualify, don't even make it on to ND's board. Why do you think there are many top flight players that ND doesn't even offer? There are lots and LOTS of players that ND won't even start recruiting because they don't have the grades or test scores. It isn't necessarily a matter of players we recruit that don't make the cut because the staff does a great deal of due diligence beforehand even making an offer.

If you truly think that ND is on a level playing field in terms of academics and behavioral standards then you are completely out of touch. Did you know in the dorms at ND (at least in years past, not sure if it is exactly the same now), you can't have a member of the opposite sex in your room after, I think, midnight? The restrictions on drinking and other behavior are also very strict. Yes, Virginia, behavioral standards do matter to college students. Especially to prospective athletes who don't prize academics or a better life after football over social life and fun.

ND tries to attact a better caliber of STUDENT-athlete (emphasis on student). Unfortunately, extremely high athletic prowess and equally high moral and academic standards don't always go hand in hand. It is a tough combination to find.

We are getting there, but it is a slower process than some would like. It is a combination of a lot of factors including no JUCO transfers, no automatic redshirts, highers admissions standards, and all the other points that have been shown. I don't know what a fair amount of time is to get back to the summit. I don't make those decisions, but I do think we are on the right course.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Sorry NDinL.A. - You type faster than I do...

 

[TDHeysus]

TDHeysus, no offense but your attitude is piss poor. I dont really know why you waste your time posting or following if you've accepted mediocrity and just caqll everyone else who contends cheaters.

I may have a poor attitude, but that doesnt mean I have accepted mediocrity. I have accepted the truth, and I am firmly planted in reality. I dont call everyone else cheaters, I just point out that ND should not go down the same path Miami U, USC did...and I outlined what path I am talking about.

How am I living in the past because I expect Notre Dame to contend for national championships? You dont go to ND to hope for a outside shot at a BCS game or go to the effin Hawaii Bowl do you? Is that what these recruits are signing up for?

Your living in the past because your comparing this team to past success, and holding it up to it. You are bound to fail everytime you do that. You will be chasing notre dame ghosts forever in that scenario. (something Weis refuses to do, he has his own gig)

Its such a cliche to start up with the "police blotter" stuff. Gimme a break.

dont dismiss the facts....

I know you poo poo'd my list of advantages Notre Dame holds and chopped them all into separate bits so they wouldnt seem coherent but the fact remains that ND has its own network, national recruiting base, mystique and prestigous standing as a football powerhouse. This is NOW, not in the "past" so stop making excuses for the mediocrity. Im sure on national signing day you've seen Notre Dames classes with a real high number assigned to them in recent years. This is the here and now, not the past.

This is complex detailed issue, you used very general terms; without writing a book to respond to you, I boiled down all the fluff from your comments and hammered the core points. To just say that ND has this 'national recruiting base' is not a fair statement; there is more to it than that. you make it sound any trained monkey can grab the helm and steer this ship. Alot has contributed to the demise of recruiting, and to suggest that it can be fixed over night is irrational, or just plain ignorant. So rather than fully detailing every part of your comments, I stripped down and took my shots. Are you saying that I misquoted you? Do you feel misrepresented?

I read your comments and I feel they are based in the past, predicated on what someone else told you about Notre Dame along time ago and you just assume that it needs to be that way. Shit dont just happen by themselves, you have to make it happen. If you formulated your own opinions about Notre Dame you would see they have clawed their way from the f'in bottom to where there are now. nothing has been easy, and they have done it the right way. That is respectable. It hasnt been the quick and easy path. Given where ND was when Weis got here, and where they are now, he has made a difference. Irrational Notre Dame fans dont see that, they just say win now, because thats the way its always been(living in the past). Or, irrational Notre Dame fans just hate Weis so much, that nothing he ever does will be good enough.

I think of myself as a realist, and I would like to think I am rational. I see an offense averaging 400+ yards a game. That offense is good enough to win a NC, we are a few defensive players away from where we want to be. Irrational fans dont see any of that.

I know you poo poo'd my list of advantages Notre Dame holds and chopped them all into separate bits so they wouldnt seem coherent....

dont hate me because I know how to use the quote feature....

 

[jason_h537]

(gives TDHeysus a hug) its ok buddy... relax.

Like i said in another thread. People talk about ND playing for NC's and that should be the goal, but i was born in 88. I never seen ND win a NC and am too young to remember 93. They have been an average to good team my entire life. So i see all these people bag on Weis but under Weis i have seen Notre Dame look its best. Maybe 02 or i think 99 when they played Oregon St in a BCS bowl. Other than that most of the guys who complain about Weis making Notre Dame average, i just do not see. 2 BCS bowls with above average talent followed by 2 bad years with young talent.

Unlike others who think we are no good and should just throw in the towel against UW, USC, Pitt, and Stanford. The games are played on the field and we are 3-1. Lets just wait and see

 

[adsnorri]

The facts of my opinion ( if that makes any sense).

1. Weis is a great coach, definitely not callin for his head.
2. He is smart and understands how to create ''packages'' for younger inexperience quarterbacks.
3. Running the ball for 12 min. is not a quarterback package, it is very conservative and is playing scared. I understand managing the game with a ten point lead but that is a bit over kill.
4. This board has always said that weis needs to learn how to put away opponents and he has yet to do that. He has a hell of a gameplan until he gets the lead. The defense also contributes to the opponent coming back.
5. The Notre Dame fanbase, alumni, students, faculty, and players in general expect national championship contention every year, if you don't sorry but we do. These recruits choose notre dame over others for a variety of reasons; education and to contend for high level bcs bowls and nfl. ( amongst others)
6. People that win continuously don't cheat on the norm, excluding usc. They have learned success and know how to keep the momentum.
7. Dayne Crist does not need to know the whole offense in order to throw passes. By the way he has great footwork, i like. Ask michigan, usc, as well as many others if a freshman quarterback can run an offense, let alone a red-shirt.
8. we are all friends and I love smart discussion, even if we disagree. Actually the fact that we disagree makes the discussion more intriguing.
9. we will have a tough time with locker if we don't run the score up early and hurt their confidence.

 

[kmoose]

5. The Notre Dame fanbase, alumni, students, faculty, and players in general expect national championship contention every year, if you don't sorry but we do. These recruits choose notre dame over others for a variety of reasons; education and to contend for high level bcs bowls and nfl. ( amongst others)

I think the debate on here, over this subject, is based mostly upon a lack of understanding. I am one of the ones that has maintained that I don't expect to compete for a NC every year. When I say that, it doesn't mean that I am resigned to mediocrity, in the other seasons. It just means that, when I look at the team, going into the season, and analyze the schedule, the changes on ND's team, the changes on our opponents' teams, etc., I try to draw a realistic expectation for the season. In other words, what do I expect the team to do. For anyone to expect ND to win 10 or 11 games this year (which seems to be what it takes, to compete for a NC these days), is unreasonable. Hope for it? Absolutely!! But no one should have expected it. Not if they were being honest, and taking ALL of the factors into account. If they just looked at the recent recruiting class rankings, then I guess I could see where they might have deluded themselves into thinking that 10 or 11 wins was probable. But there is more to it than recruiting class rankings. Anyone who has followed football for more than a year or two knows that you win and/or lose games, in the trenches. And ND has two new line coaches. It is not reasonable, to expect both of those coaches to have their units playing at a NC caliber level, in their first years. My expectations for the year are separate from my hopes, my wishes, and certainly from my passions. In today's game, it is almost impossible to be perennial NC contender, for more than 4 or 5 years in a row. Ask Ohio State (won it in 2002, finished #20 in 2004), ask Oklahoma (won it in 2001, finished #22 in 2005), ask Florida State, ask Miami, ask Notre Dame. It's just an evolution of the game.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Awesome post kmoose! Very well written. 'Nuff said!

 

[weisbank4]

LOL, im only 34 not 70!

I guess maybe there is a generational gap. Others around my age or older will certainly remember that ND competed for NCs and nothing else. There wasnt a BCS to worry about either.

There was never even a debate about "9-3" or "10-2" - those were failed seasons. Faust came in and had those down years and that guy was a nervous wreck by the end of his tenure. I was really young for Faust but I remember the guy aged 20 years in 5 because of the pressures from being NDs coach.

IMO Weis has had his ass kissed for the most part. He is on the "hot seat" so to speak but most people are still invested in him. Im still invested in him but not like I was.

But I will stick to my opinion that Weis himself would tell you it isnt good enough what weve seen because Weis himslef was one of the guys who remembers how expectations used to be and still should be.

 

[sonomairishfan]

.............is no Jimmy Clausen.....even a 1 legged Jimmy Clausen. In all seriousness, why dis Weis not let him throw the ball? Why did he use him like he was Demetrius Jones? The first series was effective but after that it was stuffed.

I didnt understand any of it. This ND team is awful in the 3rd quarter of games. I think it is a major coaching issue when the 2nd half starts out so poorly in 3 straight games now.

This is the 3rd straight team ND was poised to knock out with 1 more TD and it didnt happen, momentum swung, and the game became a nail biter. Im not comfortable at all with this.

i think you make valid points. i didn't quite understand why crist wasn't given a bit more freedom to throw the ball a bit.

halftime adjustments don't seem to happen with this coaching staff. that is something that has really frustrated me, especially against teams ND should absolutely donkey punch in the second half. (purdue, even with 3 starters out)

 

[kmoose]

LOL, im only 34 not 70!

I guess maybe there is a generational gap. Others around my age or older will certainly remember that ND competed for NCs and nothing else. There wasnt a BCS to worry about either.

There was never even a debate about "9-3" or "10-2" - those were failed seasons.

Again, you are failing to take into account the changes in College football, that have obsoleted these expectations.

1. TV contracts. In the days that you are talking about, there wasn't nearly the proliferation of TV contracts that there are now. You had basically three networks to televise games on. ABC, NBC, and CBS. Even if every one of those networks showed a game on Saturday afternoon, you would still only see 6 teams play. The Alabamas, Notre Dames, and Ohio States of the college football world had a distinct advantage. If high school kids wanted to make a name for themselves, they HAD to go to one of the "big time" football schools. ND was one of those schools, so it was very easy to have a team loaded with the best players in the country. Nowadays, you have the Mountain West conference on TV every week. There are so many games on, and there is an hourlong show, named College Football Final, that shows highlights every weekend. A kid can go to Texas Christian University, and become a star.

2. Scholarship limits. Before scholarship limits, "rich" schools like Notre Dame, Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc, could hand out as many scholarships as they could afford. This allowed the "haves" to offer scholarships to guys who were All-County or All-State in High School, but who had no realistic chance of ever seeing the field for their college team. Can you imagine having Jimmy Clausen, Tony Pike, Jake Locker, and Tim Tebow, all on the same team? How about a backfield of Herschel Walker, Emmit Smith, Bo Jackson, Eric Dickerson, and Marcus Allen? Michael Floyd and Armando Allen go down? Oh, no worries..........we have these two sophomores, Aurellius Benn and Emmit Smith, to plug in. THAT'S why 10-2 0r 9-3 was not good enough, in those days.

3. ND plays for National Championships. Because you were so young when this sentiment was popular, you probably just did not understand the true meaning of it. This was a testament to ND's indepence. The sentiment behind it was, while other teams may be able to win a Conference Championship and consider it a good year, the only Championship that ND could point to was a NATIONAL Championsip. It didn't mean that they were a serious contender, EVERY YEAR.

The game has changed. You can either change with it, or find yourself left behind and frustrated. As previously mentioned, a change in expectations does not mean that you have accepted mediocrity.

 

[tankjeep]

LOL, im only 34 not 70!

I guess maybe there is a generational gap. Others around my age or older will certainly remember that ND competed for NCs and nothing else. There wasnt a BCS to worry about either.

i'm 39 and i get what everybody else is saying....why can't you??? times have changed, get over yourself. don't think what i've said is a sign of me accepting mediocrity.....i'm waiting for the cream to rise to the top and it doesn't do that right away. it takes time and patience (something you don't have).

and please learn to use the quote button, it's a great tool and saves you the time of copy/pasting. even my old arse new that.....sheesh.