Does this feel like a Gerry Faust coached Team?

[BeatSC]

Gerry had some good players but seemd lost during the games on making adjustments and seemd to never win the close games very often. I will give him credit for going undefeated against USC though. Like Faust's teams we have some good players. Certainly better talent than most of the teams we are facing.

CW needs to make it 10-2 this season. He got screwed at Michigan but it never should have have go tot that point.

 

[tankjeep]

nah, i don't think so. once weis gets in a groove and continues to learn more about the college game, he'll be a force to reckon with.

the thing i worry about is the fact that if we lose a couple more games just becuz of bad luck or whatever, he'll be gone.

hopefully, this game is the kind like weis said "that gets you over the hump". if so, then i see this team really making some noise. you can sense a feeling of team comradarie on the sidelines and having team chemistry really helps a team get thru the difficult times.

my only worry it the defense. we came into the season expecting our 2ndary to be strong only to see them allow msu throw at will on them. our dline need to get more pressure on the qb. i realize they are young and hopefully time will give the experience they need to step it up.

 

[Seanthornton]

I cant believe you would make that comparison. Gerry couldn't be a pimple on charlie Weis's rear end !! Those were years....of suffering.....Why dont you just throw Bob Davey into the mix.....His last year I couldn't watch a game it was too painful.

Our secondary needs some work......S.O.S. our pass defence is giving up the farm !!They killed us on third down conversions. They defended the run better I thought this week.

Offensive line gave Clausen plenty of time to be effective.
Cautiously optomistic.

Keep The Faith !!

 

[Junkhead]

I keep wanting and hoping for Weis to surprise me. Recruiting has, not much else. At times it seems like we are doing less than most teams with way less talent. Do we need 6-star recruits? Anyway, player development seems to be a non-issue anymore, many have taken a large jump up. At times, I wonder if we will ever get it together, but at the same time it's nice to see the offensive talent gel, especially the Oline (thanks Verducci). A defense must be found.

 

[NDMontana]

I keep wanting and hoping for Weis to surprise me. Recruiting has, not much else. At times it seems like we are doing less than most teams with way less talent. Do we need 6-star recruits? Anyway, player development seems to be a non-issue anymore, many have taken a large jump up. At times, I wonder if we will ever get it together, but at the same time it's nice to see the offensive talent gel, especially the Oline (thanks Verducci). A defense must be found.

I appreciate the sentiment of your post. Look, CW has recruited like a champion and he's also done a masterful job of selling himself to the fans. He's inculcated more than a few people in the belief that he's a master strategist and I say "he's inculcated" because the results on the field, the media and other teams around the country point to CW's lack of ability when it comes to game management which is what the head coach's ultimate job is....believe it or not his main job is not to be the offensive coordinator (though that role seems suited to his abilities). He's got more to do than call the plays but five years in to the job and, IMO, he hasn't shown growth in the game management area. I think he's convinced more people of abilities via big talk as opposed to on the field successes.

To whoever said that he needs time to learn and he'll figure it out, give me a break. He's had nothing but time and patience from the administration and alumni.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

He had to start his team from (-) negative scratch.

One more year.

Next year I will expect more wins than losses. Team looks good, fights, is in shape. Goodness. My lil dogs gonna be big dogs.

Luvs me some ND.

 

[Master Guns]

Do not even see the comparisions between CW and GF. I still think CW is on the way to right the ship, 2-1 at this point is really on the mark although it should be 3-0, I always thought the UM game may have been a loss. I really think the time, barring a major, major meltdown, to evaluate CW is after Jimmy's senior year. I hate to think of going into another coaching search at this point. I think we will be in contention next year for a NC.

 

[BGIF]

Gerry had some good players but seemd lost during the games on making adjustments and seemd to never win the close games very often. I will give him credit for going undefeated against USC though. Like Faust's teams we have some good players. Certainly better talent than most of the teams we are facing.

CW needs to make it 10-2 this season. He got screwed at Michigan but it never should have have go tot that point.

"Gerry Faust had some good players ... " you have a gift for understatement. About 40 players that played for him were drafted by the NFL, 5 were 1st Rounders.

People though Faust was THE Selector for Parade's HS All-American Team as he got so many Parade AA's. One year I believe he had 7. He had 3-5 College All-Americans in each of his 5 seasons.

He wasn't just lost making adjustments, he was equally overwhelmed in all facets of the game.

As I recall Gerry's Standard Gameplan was "Pinkett, Pinkett, Pinkett, Punt!"

Understandable you giving him "credit for going undefeated against USC" even though it did NOT happen.

Faust was 2-3 against USC losing to them in '81 and '82 when they were ranked #5 and #4. He beat them in '83 (unranked), '84 (ranked 14), and '85 (unranked). It bears mentioning that in the 2 years Faust lost, John Robinson was coaching USC. In the 3 years Faust won, Ted Tollner was USC's coach. Tollner is considered to be one of USC's worst coaches in the past 70 years. Tollner NEVER beat ND in his career.

Fausst finished his career 4 games over .500 and 3 of those 4 wins were contributed by Tollner.

Faust inherited a pretty good team from Devine and promptly ran it to 5-6, followed by 6-4-1, 7-5, 7-5, and 5-6. Faust had 2 losing seasons and never had a season more than 2 games over .500 nor more than 7 wins. Weis has had one losing seasons primarily due to the horrendous lack of recruiting by Willingham.

Faust's most productive season he averaged 25 points per game. His '82 team averaged 18 ppg - that's OFFENSE. The last 3 games of his era ND was outscored 104-20 or by an average score of 35 - 7.

Faust teams were ranked in the Preseason AP Top 20 all of his 5 season. They never finished ranked in the Final Poll in any of those 5 years.

 

[Brown]

Some good points made here. I wanted to try to add a few:

1. Michigan looks like a good team this year -- much better than anybody thought they would be coming into the year. Any loss is bad, but Michigan looks like a legitimate top 20 program this year (so do we imo).

2. Almost everybody important is likely coming back next season: If we finish the year 9-3, or 10-2, that would be 3 straight seasons of improvement, with the 4th year being a possible National Championship contending team.

I wouldn't want Weis fired unless there's a complete meltdown this season. A 9-3, 8-4 season is fine with me. This team has nowhere to go but up the following season.

 

[JJRott]

"nah, i don't think so. once weis gets in a groove and continues to learn more about the college game, he'll be a force to reckon with."

5 years and you're still saying, "once weis gets in a groove"? Just wondering, how much time to you give Charlie to, "gets in a groove"?

 

[BeatSC]

"Gerry Faust had some good players ... " you have a gift for understatement. About 40 players that played for him were drafted by the NFL, 5 were 1st Rounders.

People though Faust was THE Selector for Parade's HS All-American Team as he got so many Parade AA's. One year I believe he had 7. He had 3-5 College All-Americans in each of his 5 seasons.

He wasn't just lost making adjustments, he was equally overwhelmed in all facets of the game.

As I recall Gerry's Standard Gameplan was "Pinkett, Pinkett, Pinkett, Punt!"

Understandable you giving him "credit for going undefeated against USC" even though it did NOT happen.

Faust was 2-3 against USC losing to them in '81 and '82 when they were ranked #5 and #4. He beat them in '83 (unranked), '84 (ranked 14), and '85 (unranked). It bears mentioning that in the 2 years Faust lost, John Robinson was coaching USC. In the 3 years Faust won, Ted Tollner was USC's coach. Tollner is considered to be one of USC's worst coaches in the past 70 years. Tollner NEVER beat ND in his career.

Fausst finished his career 4 games over .500 and 3 of those 4 wins were contributed by Tollner.

Faust inherited a pretty good team from Devine and promptly ran it to 5-6, followed by 6-4-1, 7-5, 7-5, and 5-6. Faust had 2 losing seasons and never had a season more than 2 games over .500 nor more than 7 wins. Weis has had one losing seasons primarily due to the horrendous lack of recruiting by Willingham.

Faust's most productive season he averaged 25 points per game. His '82 team averaged 18 ppg - that's OFFENSE. The last 3 games of his era ND was outscored 104-20 or by an average score of 35 - 7.

Faust teams were ranked in the Preseason AP Top 20 all of his 5 season. They never finished ranked in the Final Poll in any of those 5 years.

Wow, good data, but GF was let go after his 5th year and appeared to have a tougher schedule to boot. He also must have been a good recruiter like CW. We keep seeing good signs on the offense but CW is the Head coach not just the offensive coordinator. Are our guys underacheiving on D or is it the coaching? I do think that teams do show up for us every week but some of this D issue looks like coaching and schemes.

I want Charlie to do well but I think most of us were expecting 3-0 by now. Our team is better than UM and between CW and the refs we lost. I do think CW is overall better than GF but I was noting a feeling and yes I think this year and next will be the fair measuring stick due to Ty's leaving the cupboard bare. I think the UW win over USC has vindicated ND in their firing of Ty.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

This year we have average 34 points per game, in the early 90's we did so as well under Holtz. It does not look like a Faust coched team to me, but it does look like a Bob Davie coached defense. That bend but don't break defense has been broken a lot the last two games. I can only assume that is what Tenuta is trying to run. What ever happened to the Barry Alvarez days of shut down defense? I mean c'mon when Davie replaced Holtz, I never understood because the defense was the weakest part of the team in Davie's era as Defensive Coordinator

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

What ever happened to the Barry Alvarez days of shut down defense? I mean c'mon when Davie replaced Holtz, I never understood because the defense was the weakest part of the team in Davie's era as Defensive Coordinator

Nice. When he was hired I thunk "What the..." I remember thinking (just an ignorant and non valid thought) that he sabotaged Holtz to get the job.

I did think that the Davie era was filled with ridiculous expectations and he had an impossible job. Play the best in the country every week without a week off, on national tv, and then win an NC.

"Um, ok boss, I can get it done. No problem."

 

[phork]

Gerry had some good players but seemd lost during the games on making adjustments and seemd to never win the close games very often. I will give him credit for going undefeated against USC though. Like Faust's teams we have some good players. Certainly better talent than most of the teams we are facing.

CW needs to make it 10-2 this season. He got screwed at Michigan but it never should have have go tot that point.

I see no Faustian comparisons. But I will say that 10-2 is not going to happen. Floyd is done for the year and Clausen is hurting.

I can see ND losing to Washington, USC, Pitt and possibly Stanford. 8-4 is best case, scenario. I will attach a * to it however. And that is if someone can step in, in Floyd's absence, and actually be a productive player in this offense.

 

[BeatSC]

I see no Faustian comparisons. But I will say that 10-2 is not going to happen. Floyd is done for the year and Clausen is hurting.

I can see ND losing to Washington, USC, Pitt and possibly Stanford. 8-4 is best case, scenario. I will attach a * to it however. And that is if someone can step in, in Floyd's absence, and actually be a productive player in this offense.

We will beat UW, not sure about Pitt and Stanford. If our improves we win.

 

[Timugen]

I see no Faustian comparisons. But I will say that 10-2 is not going to happen. Floyd is done for the year and Clausen is hurting.

I can see ND losing to Washington, USC, Pitt and possibly Stanford. 8-4 is best case, scenario. I will attach a * to it however. And that is if someone can step in, in Floyd's absence, and actually be a productive player in this offense.

With the talent and depth that we have, we SHOULD be able to put the UW, Pitt, and Stanford games in the bank........BUT....we can't. We have to worry every week about whether or not we'll manage to beat a team full of players that we didn't even bother scouting, much less recruiting.

How some of you on here STILL, in the FIFTH year of this debacle, fail to see the egregious shortcomings of the [NAME REDACTED] regime is an absolute mindfcuk.

We just struggled to beat a team that lost to Central Michigan a week ago. Now stop. Stop right there and think long and hard about that statement in conjunction with how excited we as Irish fans have been in the offseasons about all the elite talent we've been loading up with year after year after year. Now go back and re-read the statement in bold (seriously, you need to.) It really is that simple when trying to decide whether or not things are on the right track. How many top 5 recruiting classes does it take to screw in a lightbulb against a team that just lost to Central Michigan?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I don't know what a mindfcuk is, but I am going to guess it only takes one mindfcuk to screw a lightbulb.

I bet Kmoose is next to respond.

 

[kmoose]

With the talent and depth that we have, we SHOULD be able to put the UW, Pitt, and Stanford games in the bank........BUT....we can't. We have to worry every week about whether or not we'll manage to beat a team full of players that we didn't even bother scouting, much less recruiting.

How some of you on here STILL, in the FIFTH year of this debacle, fail to see the egregious shortcomings of the Weis regime is an absolute mindfcuk.

We just struggled to beat a team that lost to Central Michigan a week ago. How many top 5 recruiting classes does it take to screw in a lightbulb against a team that just lost to Central Michigan?

Don't confuse not wanting Weis to get fired after the 3rd game of the season, with not being able to see the shortcomings. We all know that only a 10 win season will guarantee Charlie that he will be back, next year. At 9 wins, his position is still incredibly tenuous. I don't mind that people are unhappy with Weis. I'm not very happy with him, either. But I will not jump on the "Fire Charlie" bandwagon, until after the season is over. It's not like he has done nothing for the program. Recruiting is at an all time high. And that sure as hell ain't because of the success on the field, or the easy cirriculum. It's directly attributable to Weis and his coaching staff. This offense, when at full speed (meaning with a healthy Michael Floyd) is incredible. He's starting to bring in some talent on defense, as well. Teo, this year, and he has a 5 star DE lined up for next year. I'm not saying that any of this saves his job, in a 9-3 season. I'm just saying that it's crazy to talk about firing him during the season.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

 

[Timugen]

Don't confuse not wanting Weis to get fired after the 3rd game of the season, with not being able to see the shortcomings. We all know that only a 10 win season will guarantee Charlie that he will be back, next year. At 9 wins, his position is still incredibly tenuous. I don't mind that people are unhappy with Weis. I'm not very happy with him, either. But I will not jump on the "Fire Charlie" bandwagon, until after the season is over. It's not like he has done nothing for the program. Recruiting is at an all time high. And that sure as hell ain't because of the success on the field, or the easy cirriculum. It's directly attributable to Weis and his coaching staff. This offense, when at full speed (meaning with a healthy Michael Floyd) is incredible. He's starting to bring in some talent on defense, as well. Teo, this year, and he has a 5 star DE lined up for next year. I'm not saying that any of this saves his job, in a 9-3 season. I'm just saying that it's crazy to talk about firing him during the season.

I'll get excited about his recruiting when he actually turns it into results. He's recruited the best players in the country for 4 years straight now and I'm still not seeing that on the field. He didn't just walk in this past winter and take over. The "empty cupboard" excuse is gone. It really is pretty simple to me, and I only bring this point up because you mentioned recruiting......

1. Look at MSU's recruiting classes for the past 4 years.

2. Look at our recruiting classes for the past 4 years.

3. We struggled to beat them by 3 points and their QB making a stupid throw at the end of the game was a big help.


I wouldn't count [NAME REDACTED]'s recruiting as a positive until he can actually translate it to results on the field.

 

[kmoose]

I wouldn't count [NAME REDACTED]'s recruiting as a positive until he can actually translate it to results on the field.

If he goes 8-4, gets fired, and the new coach starts winning right away, you will. Like I said........it's not enough to save his job if he goes 8-4, and maybe even not enough, if he goes 9-3. But he's not running the program into the ground or anything.

 

[irishtrain]

faust

faust

Every bad thing has happened so far in a perfect storm. This coach has improved the team and has them on the verge of excellance. Emotion, refs, al the crap ND has to deal with about his job, schedule, all of it. One thing matters- get thru the next two weeks, ugly , lucky, or whatever. Just get SC in here with both of us needing the game for a BCS berth. These guys are going to play out of their mind against SC.

 

[irishtrain]

faust

faust

I'm on record with guys like Brown on Charlie. He has learned on the job but who else do you want bringing in the talent. Meyer, Gruden, Lou or Ara could not have won any more with what he had on the field until this year. My only thing that you guys disagree with me on is he should be in the booth.

 

[Timugen]

If he goes 8-4, gets fired, and the new coach starts winning right away, you will. Like I said........it's not enough to save his job if he goes 8-4, and maybe even not enough, if he goes 9-3. But he's not running the program into the ground or anything.

You're making a lot of assumptions about players staying around after [NAME REDACTED] gets fired this year. The strong likelihood of a rookie cap/payscale in '11 gives all of the talented juniors on this team motivation to get out and get payed, especially if the season goes south (sorry, Sam Bradford.)

[NAME REDACTED] has recruited the top talent in the country year after year, and call me crazy but I don't consider it a saving grace for him that after he gets shitcanned another coach will be able to come in and do much better with that talent than he ever did.

And not to open a can of worms here, but.....what has [NAME REDACTED] ever accomplished since BQ graduated? Beat some guys in straw skirts to win a dot-com bowl?

 

[jason_h537]

And not to open a can of worms here, but.....what has [NAME REDACTED] ever accomplished since BQ graduated? Beat some guys in straw skirts to win a dot-com bowl?

Well on top of being one of the bestrecruiters in The country. As well as one of the best playcallers. Charlie Weis has ended our bowl losing streak as welll as the MSU home losing streak.

I am sure that may not mean much to you and your standards, but considering how bad the program was io look at both of those as positive signs.

 

[irishfan]

With the talent and depth that we have, we SHOULD be able to put the UW, Pitt, and Stanford games in the bank........BUT....we can't. We have to worry every week about whether or not we'll manage to beat a team full of players that we didn't even bother scouting, much less recruiting.

How some of you on here STILL, in the FIFTH year of this debacle, fail to see the egregious shortcomings of the [NAME REDACTED] regime is an absolute mindfcuk.

We just struggled to beat a team that lost to Central Michigan a week ago. Now stop. Stop right there and think long and hard about that statement in conjunction with how excited we as Irish fans have been in the offseasons about all the elite talent we've been loading up with year after year after year. Now go back and re-read the statement in bold (seriously, you need to.) It really is that simple when trying to decide whether or not things are on the right track. How many top 5 recruiting classes does it take to screw in a lightbulb against a team that just lost to Central Michigan?

Two years ago, ND lost to USC 38-0 but beat Stanford (a team who beat USC). Using the analogy of us beating/losing to a team who beat/lost to someone else really doesnt prove much.

Oh and Miami barely beat FSU who barely beat Jax State so does that mean that the #9 team in the country is barely better than Jax State? Pitt beat Navy more easily than Ohio State did. Does that mean Pitt is better than OSU?

 

[Timugen]

Well on top of being one of the bestrecruiters in The country.

I'm still looking for the results on the field. He's paid to be a Head COACH, not just a recruiter. You can get all the raw talent in the world, but if you can't develop it then it doesn't mean a whole lot. Take a look at our games for the past couple years.

As well as one of the best playcallers.

Are you high? Get over the Belicheat coaching-tree hype and watch the games. Did you watch the Michigan game? Did he look like "one of the best playcallers" there? My 6-year-old son is a better playcaller on 360.

Charlie Weis has ended our bowl losing streak as welll as the MSU home losing streak.

Congrats [NAME REDACTED]....you fielded a team that played a mediocre enough season to get you into a bowl game against the powerhouse that is Hawaii. Mele kalikimaka.

As for MSU...we squeaked out with a win by 3 points.....to a team that lost to Central Michigan the week before. Great win, especially considering that not a single player on that team ever even got a sniff from us because we're too busy recruiting the best in the country.

 

[irishfan]

Are you high? Get over the Belicheat coaching-tree hype and watch the games. Did you watch the Michigan game? Did he look like "one of the best playcallers" there? My 6-year-old son is a better playcaller on 360.

What do you want? I mean what would be different if Weis was replaced? He already does nothing with the defense and just focuses on play calling and offense. If you don't think his work with the offense has been more than satisfactory this year then what do you expect? He has gone out and hired one of the best coaching staffs in football. I mean I can understand why people want Weis gone, we were 3-9 in 2007 and 7-6 in 2008...but what more do you want him to do right now? We're putting up 34 a game, could've scored 60 against Nevada if we wanted to, and our one loss was in the big house against a ranked team, and quite frankly if Weis' offense was on the field last (with more than just 9 seconds) we would have won the game. As it was Michigan got the last possession, our defense (something that Weis has literally no role in) couldnt stop Michigan, and we lost the game. What was wrong with his play calling against Michigan? If you want to argue about throwing the ball late in the game, find the thread about it cause I don't think anyone wants to argue about that one anymore. It's called playing to win, and its why recruits want to play for him so badly.

 

[jason_h537]

I'm still looking for the results on the field. He's paid to be a Head COACH, not just a recruiter. You can get all the raw talent in the world, but if you can't develop it then it doesn't mean a whole lot. Take a look at our games for the past couple years.

If you want results you can see four years of his recruiting on the field everytime the offense takes a snap. is Jimmy Clausen still potential? How about the recieving core? The o-line and Runningbacks have not shown production this season?

Are you high? Get over the Belicheat coaching-tree hype and watch the games. Did you watch the Michigan game? Did he look like "one of the best playcallers" there? My 6-year-old son is a better playcaller on 360.

Yes. he has called 3 great games and you see the offense clicking now that they have all his players and a grasp of the offense.

Congrats [NAME REDACTED]....you fielded a team that played a mediocre enough season to get you into a bowl game against the powerhouse that is Hawaii. Mele kalikimaka.

What do you expect from a team that plays mostly freshman and sophmores for 2 years? We returned 10 starters on offense and 8 starters on defense. What does that say about the state of a program that is forced to play so many young players at a time for 2 straight years. This team is still one of the youngest in the country.

 

[Timugen]

Two years ago, ND lost to USC 38-0 but beat Stanford (a team who beat USC). Using the analogy of us beating/losing to a team who beat/lost to someone else really doesnt prove much.

Oh and Miami barely beat FSU who barely beat Jax State so does that mean that the #9 team in the country is barely better than Jax State? Pitt beat Navy more easily than Ohio State did. Does that mean Pitt is better than OSU?

I wasn't trying to play the transitive football victory gibberish, and I apologize if it came off that way.

Quite simply put, MSU sucks. The fact that they lost to CMU was just brought up as nothing more than evidence of the fact that MSU is a weak football team. Our talent level is leaps and bounds above MSU's, yet we struggled to beat them, and this has been a recurring theme throughout the [NAME REDACTED] regime.

I've been listening for the last 2 years to the same shit...."it's a young team," "they need more game experience," "let CW get his guys in," blah blah blah....

Guess what. This team is still the most physically talented team in the country that is craptastically mediocre......just like it was 2 years ago.