Did Our Defense Get Lucky?

[chyrspchuck]

Does anyone think our defense got a little lucky. I mean we stuffed them on the 4th and 1. I'm not sure though if our defense was more them making mistakes, or us being really good?

 

[NDinL.A.]

Yes and no. Our defense did get lucky do get the shutout in the sense that they missed a make-able FG and they lost a fumble on the 6 when it looked like the kid might have walked into the endzone. It wasn't like we forced the fumble. So they could have gotten 10 points.

But the defense wasn't lucky to play so damn well. They were disciplined, made enough tackles (still missed too many tackles), and made a damn good offensive team look very ordinary. That's not luck at all. That's talent joining with preparation and focus for 48 minutes. Loved it.

And as for the 4th and one, no luck involved. Tenuta dialed up the perfect scheme, and T. Pain laid the wood to the RB (and that's what they get for running the pistol out of the shotgun when they only needed a yard. Spread teams pay the price in those types of situations)...

 

[Echo Insanity]

the defensive line is too young. we will be paying the price for not filling our needs on the recruiting front. its quite frustrating actually, had we landed a stud d-lineman in '06 or '07, we would be talking about the national title rather than just making the bcs.

 

[phork]

Err I'd be happy with the BCS and a good game, win or lose, against a proven top ranked team. It will be interesting next year with the Oline graduating.

The defense is better than it has been in years, I have a great feeling about this group and Tenuta this year. The blitzing was actually effective, blitzers were actually getting through. Lots of room for optimism here, and they will only get better.

 

[GoIrish41]

I think it is problematic moving forward that the two safties are 1 and 2 in tackles. The LBs and DLs have to step it up against Michigan, MSU and especially USC. Toryan was the leading LB in tackles with only 5. B Smith had only 3 tackles on the day. That's only 1 more than Manti who got very limited action.

 

[irishfan]

gotta love the super-agressive blitzing bend-but-dont-break defense

 

[BGIF]

I think it is problematic moving forward that the two safties are 1 and 2 in tackles. The LBs and DLs have to step it up against Michigan, MSU and especially USC. Toryan was the leading LB in tackles with only 5. B Smith had only 3 tackles on the day. That's only 1 more than Manti who got very limited action.

If ND had played a Woody Hayes 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense it would be a concern. Back in the days when team ran 70 or 80% of the time. But ND didn't play a "pound it" offense. They played a team with a pair of 1,000 yd "Big Play" rushers. Oh, and one of them passed for almost 3000 yds last season.

ND played with an extra DB and one less player in the Front 7 you're worried about. Yes McCarthy lead the team in Tackles with 9 and Harrison Smith had 6 while Toryan had 5. Not an order of magnitude to be concerned with ordinarily but even less considering that Brian Smith was assigned to "Shadow" the QB, Kaepernick. Brian only had 3 tackles, OH Disaster! Except that he had 2 TFLs and a Sack and held his 1000 yard rusher to 39 yards rushing and disrupted their passing game. As did his fellow LBs who were frequently blitzing to disrupt NV's game.

McCarthy had 9 tackles and if you check the play by play you'll find he only had 3 stops on runs. The majority of his tackles, 6, were on passes. Why is that unusual for a Safety?

Nevade ran 29 times and passed 27, almost a 50/50 mix. ND played a total of 6 DLs, 6 LBs, 3 Safeties, and 4 CBs (Sergio started as a Nickel Back and is listed as a CB in the Official stats. Here's the Tackle Breakouts:

6 DLs 11 Tackles
6 LBs 17 Tackles
3 Ss 16 Tackles
3 CBs 9 Tackles

Front 7 28 Tackles
Secondary 25 Tackles


ND assigned Brian Smith to shadow Kaepernick, the DEs were supposed contain, to turn plays in, and and use the field to ND's advantage. It worked.

NV had 10 drives:

#Plays-Yds-Result
8-52 Missed FG
3-6 Punt
3-5 Punt
7-37 Downs
8-42 INT
5-33 Punt
4-20 INT
7-54 Fumble
7-33 Punt
5-6 Punt



Let's give some credit to the opponent's rushers. They must have some talent to both be 1000 rushers. They made a couple of nice runs - none of which hurt ND. ND made them "play between the 20's". They only reached the Red Zone twice and came up empty both times.

Navy's option frustrated the OSU defense and burned them. Navy's QB had the 6th most efficient passing day in FBS. Navy's players don't have the talent of either Kaepernick or Taua.

 

[irishandy]

I don't think that our defense got lucky, we are a lot more talented and quicker this year. I think all the offense got the attention when the defense should've gotten more.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Right on. You create your own luck. Not having gone back and watched the full game again, I thought in real time that the defense pressured Kaepernick into rushing that pitch to the back, resulting in it ending up a little behind him, and ultimately on the turf.

After the missed FG in particular the D really settled in. What if that performance was our D's opening game jitters? I like how that performance bodes for the rest of the season.

 

[IrishAddiction]

No luck of the irish this time. 5th ranked offense in the nation last year, held to zero points. a 2000yd passer, and two 1000yd rushers held in check.... minus the RB Taui (sp?), our defense did a hell of a job IMO. Not lucky, just capitalizing on opportunitys, which all good defenses do.

 

[GoIrish41]

If ND had played a Woody Hayes 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense it would be a concern. Back in the days when team ran 70 or 80% of the time. But ND didn't play a "pound it" offense. They played a team with a pair of 1,000 yd "Big Play" rushers. Oh, and one of them passed for almost 3000 yds last season.

ND played with an extra DB and one less player in the Front 7 you're worried about. Yes McCarthy lead the team in Tackles with 9 and Harrison Smith had 6 while Toryan had 5. Not an order of magnitude to be concerned with ordinarily but even less considering that Brian Smith was assigned to "Shadow" the QB, Kaepernick. Brian only had 3 tackles, OH Disaster! Except that he had 2 TFLs and a Sack and held his 1000 yard rusher to 39 yards rushing and disrupted their passing game. As did his fellow LBs who were frequently blitzing to disrupt NV's game.

McCarthy had 9 tackles and if you check the play by play you'll find he only had 3 stops on runs. The majority of his tackles, 6, were on passes. Why is that unusual for a Safety?

Nevade ran 29 times and passed 27, almost a 50/50 mix. ND played a total of 6 DLs, 6 LBs, 3 Safeties, and 4 CBs (Sergio started as a Nickel Back and is listed as a CB in the Official stats. Here's the Tackle Breakouts:

6 DLs 11 Tackles
6 LBs 17 Tackles
3 Ss 16 Tackles
3 CBs 9 Tackles

Front 7 28 Tackles
Secondary 25 Tackles


ND assigned Brian Smith to shadow Kaepernick, the DEs were supposed contain, to turn plays in, and and use the field to ND's advantage. It worked.

NV had 10 drives:

#Plays-Yds-Result
8-52 Missed FG
3-6 Punt
3-5 Punt
7-37 Downs
8-42 INT
5-33 Punt
4-20 INT
7-54 Fumble
7-33 Punt
5-6 Punt



Let's give some credit to the opponent's rushers. They must have some talent to both be 1000 rushers. They made a couple of nice runs - none of which hurt ND. ND made them "play between the 20's". They only reached the Red Zone twice and came up empty both times.

Navy's option frustrated the OSU defense and burned them. Navy's QB had the 6th most efficient passing day in FBS. Navy's players don't have the talent of either Kaepernick or Taua.

Great breakdown, but I know of no defense in which, by design, saftiies make the most tackles. They are the last line of any defense. Our linebackers should have at least half of the tackles every game. When that doesn't happen, it is a deficiency. Many of the passes Nevada threw were screens (like the one Manti blew up) or short passes which are often than not opportunities for linebackers to make plays. Not a whole lot of balls were thrown down field by Nevada because there wasn't time.

Front 7 28 Tackles - Secondary 25 Tackles == this is not a good stat. Didn't hurt us against Nevada, but if this was against USC, it would not bode well.

 

[jason_h537]

Great breakdown, but I know of no defense in which, by design, saftiies make the most tackles. They are the last line of any defense. Our linebackers should have at least half of the tackles every game. When that doesn't happen, it is a deficiency. Many of the passes Nevada threw were screens (like the one Manti blew up) or short passes which are often than not opportunities for linebackers to make plays. Not a whole lot of balls were thrown down field by Nevada because there wasn't time.

Front 7 28 Tackles - Secondary 25 Tackles == this is not a good stat. Didn't hurt us against Nevada, but if this was against USC, it would not bode well.

Notre Dame wouldn't be playing the same defense against USC. What Big IF was saying is the defense was playing with a Nickel Back most of the game which is what the team uses against the spread. Against USC your are more likely to say a basic 4-3. In obvious rushing situations the team also moves Ethan outside to end and bring in another big body at tackle. Wehave not seen this defense yet and probably wont until MSU. are there flaws? yes, but we havent seen all that the d can do just yet

 

[Riddickulous]

We were getting constant pressure on Kaepernick. If we had made all the tackles, he might have been sacked five or six times instead of three.

Keep in mind that Tate Forcier is six inches shorter and about forty pounds lighter than Kaepernick. I don't think we're going to see those missed tackles next Saturday.

 

[BGIF]

Great breakdown, but I know of no defense in which, by design, saftiies make the most tackles. They are the last line of any defense. Our linebackers should have at least half of the tackles every game. When that doesn't happen, it is a deficiency. Many of the passes Nevada threw were screens (like the one Manti blew up) or short passes which are often than not opportunities for linebackers to make plays. Not a whole lot of balls were thrown down field by Nevada because there wasn't time.

Front 7 28 Tackles - Secondary 25 Tackles == this is not a good stat. Didn't hurt us against Nevada, but if this was against USC, it would not bode well.

... if this was against USC ....

It wasn't. The Game Plan Saturday was tailored to a specific opponent both on offense and on defense and it worked well.

Remind me again how many times did they reach the Red Zone?

How many points did they score?

 

[irishfan]

Great breakdown, but I know of no defense in which, by design, saftiies make the most tackles. They are the last line of any defense. Our linebackers should have at least half of the tackles every game. When that doesn't happen, it is a deficiency. Many of the passes Nevada threw were screens (like the one Manti blew up) or short passes which are often than not opportunities for linebackers to make plays. Not a whole lot of balls were thrown down field by Nevada because there wasn't time.

Front 7 28 Tackles - Secondary 25 Tackles == this is not a good stat. Didn't hurt us against Nevada, but if this was against USC, it would not bode well.

against the option, safeties have been designed to make the most tackles. considering nevada runs a similar offense, maybe our defense was designed similarly.

 

[chyrspchuck]

I appreciate the insight, and pose this question to hopefully bring discussion between friends.

I just think the field goal.....they missed on their own. The 4th and 1, they missed assignments. The fumble..... their error not a force by us. The interception at the end of the half, was just a hail mary pass gone wrong.

I feel like we missed a lot of tackles and against a formidable opponent these arm tackle misses could cost us, but against a wac team that didn't play error free football and didn't look great it didn't kill us......

Don't get me wrong, I think we played well. We had very few mistakes, but I could see the defense getting gashed like it did last year and next week scares me.

 

[phork]

There is reason to be excited for sure, but all those points are valid. Those are mostly mistakes that Nevada made and were unforced.

 

[JeremyND07]

great points! The DL was the least impressive group of the day and we all knew that coming in but I will save my opinion until after we play a more conventional offense.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Hail Mary's rarely go right on the football field.

 

[TDHeysus]

the defense played well on saturday, no doubt about it. But I saw things that conern me:

The dline looked small to me
Nevada was able to run the ball (just couldnt capitlize)
Nevada also seem to have that 12-15yd-out pass route all day.

The defense looked very good against a lesser team, which shows they have talent. just how much talent remains to be seen.

 

[onenybrother]

Luck is part of the game. Ask Leinart and Bush. Cant get that damn play out of my mind.

 

[chyrspchuck]

I don't know if NDinLA will recall this or not, I know he is a southern california resident......I remember 2 years ago on the busses the advertisement for USC football had Leinhart getting pushed by Reggie into the end zone and it said, "You would have if you could have" or something like that. I wanted to crash into the bus when I saw it. Sorry, off topic.

I think they are all valid points we are making, I'm nervous for next week for sure.

 

[BillyIrish]

i think we were fortunate to post the shutout. however, the D did play very well. The top priority on saturday was to contain Kaepernick. mission accomplished. he had guys in his face all day long. The biggest concern has to be tackling. everyone has said it. i hope everyone continues to say it because it truly was a glaring weakness.


This weeks gameplan should be more of the same. GET AFTER FORCIER!!! rattle the freshman early and often. force him into making decisions.

 

[Riddickulous]

i think we were fortunate to post the shutout. however, the D did play very well. The top priority on saturday was to contain Kaepernick. mission accomplished. he had guys in his face all day long. The biggest concern has to be tackling. everyone has said it. i hope everyone continues to say it because it truly was a glaring weakness.


This weeks gameplan should be more of the same. GET AFTER FORCIER!!! rattle the freshman early and often. force him into making decisions.

That will probably be the exact gameplan.

 

[phork]

Let me just interject that there will be no 8 fumbles this game. I hope Jimmy and the gang can create their own points this time.

 

[NDFan537]

I appreciate the insight, and pose this question to hopefully bring discussion between friends.

I just think the field goal.....they missed on their own. The 4th and 1, they missed assignments. The fumble..... their error not a force by us. The interception at the end of the half, was just a hail mary pass gone wrong.

I feel like we missed a lot of tackles and against a formidable opponent these arm tackle misses could cost us, but against a wac team that didn't play error free football and didn't look great it didn't kill us......

Don't get me wrong, I think we played well. We had very few mistakes, but I could see the defense getting gashed like it did last year and next week scares me.

I agree and don't want anyone to get me wrong here. All of the items listed could be attributed to ND's defense. The field goal was wide, but it was 5-8 yards longer because of a B-Real sack. The 4th and 1, both teams lined up, called plays and our defensive play was more effective. The fumble.............no defense. God loves ND what can I say. I was there in the stadium turned to my friend and said,"If we hold them here, I think we will complete the shut out." He responded,"yeah, well their gonna score". Next thing you know the ball is on the ground and we recover, threat over. It was very odd to me, but I will take strange acts of mercy on ND anytime they are handed out. The INT before the half, not sure why it is on here. They threw it up and Blanton got higher than their guys, he is more talented and that is why he made the play. Maybe ChyspyChuck was in the Bathroom for that one????????????????

I think that the D missed way too may tackles, B-real had two would be sacks and just missed him. That was the best running QB we will face hands down. Guy is a giant and runs like a DB. That was a pretty good team, I really believe that and Sat. we will find out if I am right.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Yea I dont get how we stuff them on 4th and 1 and it is their fault because they missed an assignment, not anything good done by us. And we got lucky because their hail mary was not successful? And we got lucky because they missed a field goal? Does anyone remember last year. at least through the first half of the season? Did other teams get lucky? Or was our kicker just not very good. I really dont call that luck. The fumble was fortunate, I will give you that. But that's football, sometimes you get bounces, sometimes you dont.

I dont know why when we shutout a team someone has to always find the negative. Good God enjoy it for crying out loud!!!!

 

[BGIF]

Yea I dont get how we stuff them on 4th and 1 and it is their fault because they missed an assignment, not anything good done by us. And we got lucky because their hail mary was not successful? And we got lucky because they missed a field goal? Does anyone remember last year. at least through the first half of the season? Did other teams get lucky? Or was our kicker just not very good. I really dont call that luck. The fumble was fortunate, I will give you that. But that's football, sometimes you get bounces, sometimes you dont.

I dont know why when we shutout a team someone has to always find the negative. Good God enjoy it for crying out loud!!!!

Hear, Hear!


I remember the first half of last season. Between MSU and UNC, Jimmy Clausen threw 132 times without an interception ... I'm still in hypnosis therapy trying to forget the whole month of November.