Notre Dame at Michigan, Sep. 12

[UMrealist]

sorry, mis-wrote that ... 13 of 20 for 65% ... and was very close to being higher.

He's got a very accurate throw .... you'll see.

 

[UMrealist]

as a rivalry

as a rivalry

I think the hatred is natural and it does indeed go both ways ...

the best evidence of that is that it pisses our little brothers at MSU off to NO END that we get more worked up by OSU and ND than by them.

 

[Swash]

I think ND should still be favored in this game ...

Yeah by 30. F%!^ scUM

 

[Junkhead]

I root for Big Ten teams in the bowl games and all, living in the region, but being near the Michigan state line, I get tired of the UM jockers. They are mostly redneck goat-ropers. Thanks to the UM fans here being civil though, nice to see.

 

[UMrealist]

Hmmm ... thought it might be fun to talk about the upcoming game with college football fans who know something about the game. But I find that the "droolers barking moronic insults like 8th graders" outnumber the "signs of intelligent life" type posters on this blog about 10 to 1. Even your moderators talk like idiot teenagers ...

boring, boring, boring ....

 

[NDinL.A.]

Hmmm ... thought it might be fun to talk about the upcoming game with college football fans who know something about the game. But I find that the "droolers barking moronic insults like 8th graders" outnumber the "signs of intelligent life" type posters on this blog about 10 to 1. Even your moderators talk like idiot teenagers ...

boring, boring, boring ....

Actually, before you go slinging insults, check out the other threads. There's another UM poster who we've been VERY cool with. You just caught a couple posters, and they responded to a falsehood you mistakenly wrote. Go check out your GoBlue board (I think that's the name), when your coach got exposed for cheating by his own players, banned any poster with an ND name, sight unseen! Even posters who were trying to just speak 'intelligently' about what was going on, were banned on the spot! It was unreal. So easy there tiger, this is calm compared to what many UM board are doing to ND fans...

 

[WabashFalcon]

Stares at the Michigan fans in the room. Takes out large hunting knife. Cuts arms. Licks blood.

"YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"

 

[Echo Insanity]

Stares at the Michigan fans in the room. Takes out large hunting knife. Cuts arms. Licks blood.

"YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"

Good to know we have an emo kid defending our turf

 

[WabashFalcon]

I'm emo now? I was thinking like... badass woodsman when I wrote that.

 

[UMrealist]

Actually, before you go slinging insults, check out the other threads. There's another UM poster who we've been VERY cool with. You just caught a couple posters, and they responded to a falsehood you mistakenly wrote. Go check out your GoBlue board (I think that's the name), when your coach got exposed for cheating by his own players, banned any poster with an ND name, sight unseen! Even posters who were trying to just speak 'intelligently' about what was going on, were banned on the spot! It was unreal. So easy there tiger, this is calm compared to what many UM board are doing to ND fans...

To which "other thread" do you refer?

And I didn't mind at all someone calling me on the completion % mistake .... I just typed the wrong number. (And forgot to include "3 TD's and 0 INT's as well).

No idea what UM blog you're talking about ... do you have a real name? I'll go check it out.

Lastly, you will find that the "too many hours" Detroit Free Press report on RichRod's players is absolute nonsense and a classic tempest in a teapot .... ridiculously shoddy journalism (and unfortunately entirely typical of the Free Press). The "compliance management" program at UM is extremely strong. And, I can guarantee you that the amount of work put in by UM players is about exactly the same as it is at ND, at OSU, at LSU, USC, etc., etc., etc. ..... in fact, you'll find Nevada and WMU are pretty much the same as well. That report will amount to nothing and will blow over very quickly, really ... if there was anything to it, I'd be concerned for sure ... there is not.

One final note for those who are convinced that the UM secondary will crumble under a "real" offense as compared to WMU .... there is some justification to that belief, but you're underestimating WMU's quarterback ... Tim Hiller is likely to get drafted in the NFL higher than Jimmy Clausen.

Tim Hiller | Western Michigan, QB : 2010 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

First Up: Tim Hiller Brings Big Numbers Into The Big House | Bleacher Report


Anyway, I'm off to find grown ups to talk to ....

 

[Steve]

see ya.

come back after the game.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

To which "other thread" do you refer?

And I didn't mind at all someone calling me on the completion % mistake .... I just typed the wrong number. (And forgot to include "3 TD's and 0 INT's as well).

No idea what UM blog you're talking about ... do you have a real name? I'll go check it out.

Lastly, you will find that the "too many hours" Detroit Free Press report on RichRod's players is absolute nonsense and a classic tempest in a teapot .... ridiculously shoddy journalism (and unfortunately entirely typical of the Free Press). The "compliance management" program at UM is extremely strong. And, I can guarantee you that the amount of work put in by UM players is about exactly the same as it is at ND, at OSU, at LSU, USC, etc., etc., etc. ..... in fact, you'll find Nevada and WMU are pretty much the same as well. That report will amount to nothing and will blow over very quickly, really ... if there was anything to it, I'd be concerned for sure ... there is not.

One final note for those who are convinced that the UM secondary will crumble under a "real" offense as compared to WMU .... there is some justification to that belief, but you're underestimating WMU's quarterback ... Tim Hiller is likely to get drafted in the NFL higher than Jimmy Clausen.

Tim Hiller*|*Western Michigan,*QB*:*2010 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

First Up: Tim Hiller Brings Big Numbers Into The Big House | Bleacher Report


Anyway, I'm off to find grown ups to talk to ....

Just about the last paragraph. Right now Tim Hiller has the tools, size, and mechanics of an NFL player. Most of the hype came from last year when he had Jamarko Simmons to pass to. Kid was a beast. I recently graduated from WMU and remember going to games and watching Simmons and the TE Ledbetter make some unbelievable catches. If this were Jimmy's last year, He wouldn't look as good because he made some bad decisions last year. I believe there is no way you can compare the two. One is a senior coming off of a good year with good recievers to throw to and the experience of being in a program for 3 years prior to this. This is Jimmy's third year in the system. Apples to oranges.

With the thoughts on Rich Rod. There is no proof about over working the players, just he said, he said stuff. It might come out to be nothing, but it might start to divide the locker room. By the looks of the way UM played Saturday, it has done nothing with the team and coach, they looked far better than I expected them to play. I thought WMU would win, but I am biased. I am curious, however, to see how this partnership with a banned booster plays out. Personally I think something will happen to Rich Rod one way or another, I don't like him very much. Not because he is the head coach at UM, (I respected Carr, that's more than I have for Rod) but because of the way he left West Virginia, he had recently signed a contract and then up and left for another school. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, I don't mind intelligent football talk with fans from other schools, we have a person on here who is an OSU fan who brings nothing but good conversation to the table.

Should be an interesting game come saturday, I still think ND wins by at least 21. The depth ND has and the lack of depth UM has will show.

 

[onenybrother]

Fawk the skunkbears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How's that for intelligent conversation on the game.

Let's Go Dame !!!

 

[PADOMERNUT]

I root for Big Ten teams in the bowl games and all, living in the region, but being near the Michigan state line, I get tired of the UM jockers. They are mostly redneck goat-ropers. Thanks to the UM fans here being civil though, nice to see.

I laughed my ass off at that one. Reps to you

 

[NDinL.A.]

Here's your response:

To which "other thread" do you refer?

**** Since you said you're not coming back, I won't have to refer you to it.

And I didn't mind at all someone calling me on the completion % mistake .... I just typed the wrong number. (And forgot to include "3 TD's and 0 INT's as well).

**** Fair enough.

Lastly, you will find that the "too many hours" Detroit Free Press report on RichRod's players is absolute nonsense and a classic tempest in a teapot .... ridiculously shoddy journalism (and unfortunately entirely typical of the Free Press). The "compliance management" program at UM is extremely strong. And, I can guarantee you that the amount of work put in by UM players is about exactly the same as it is at ND, at OSU, at LSU, USC, etc., etc., etc. ..... in fact, you'll find Nevada and WMU are pretty much the same as well. That report will amount to nothing and will blow over very quickly, really ... if there was anything to it, I'd be concerned for sure ... there is not.

**** Look, it wasn't just one player, it was 6. 2 of them are current players. Yes, I'm sure almost every other program does it, obviously. But don't try to lump ND into that class. ND players are in class (ever heard of that) until 2:30, and then they practice. And I can guarantee you they are not doing 10-12 hours of football on Sundays. And hell, you guys did that and STILL lost 9 games last year? Hmmmmm....

Also, the fact that 2 players still playing mentioned it tells us (well, rational fans, not delusional ones like yourself) that it did and does happen. The fact that other programs do it doesn't mean you don't, and the excess that you guys do it to is pretty amazing. But to be honest, i could care less. I'm sure ND goes over as well (but not to your extreme). It wasn't a big deal to me. It was just classic seeing your coach fake-cry on TV to try to garner sympathy from a college football world that just doesn't like the guy. Alex Rodriguez looked more natural crying LOL.

One final note for those who are convinced that the UM secondary will crumble under a "real" offense as compared to WMU .... there is some justification to that belief, but you're underestimating WMU's quarterback ... Tim Hiller is likely to get drafted in the NFL higher than Jimmy Clausen.

**** Keep dreaming about that. Hiller plays crappy teams all the time and still has never sniffed the numbers that Jimmy put up the past 2 games. You'll see on Saturday won't you? And Hiller is good, no doubt about it, but you neglect to mention that he was w/out his top 3 receivers from last year and he STILL torched your secondary. And anyways, even if you were right, we're not talking pro football. For selfish reasons, I'd much rather ND have a great college QB than a pro one. But since you brought it up, who do you think will get drafted higher, Robinson or Clausen? Hahahahahahaha.


Anyway, I'm off to find grown ups to talk to ....

****Oh, which Notre Dame board are you going to now? Enjoy!

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I wanted to respond to this topic, the NCAA trouble not this post, but this site was having server issues. So I’ll just pick up where my brother in arms left off, but with a little more respect as I am in your house.

Tim Hiller is a NFL prospect, and could be easily compared to Clausen in skills, but his receivers left last year and his O line is not what ND’s is. Think of it like Flacco (SP?) at all those skills camps a couple of years ago, he tore it up but nobody gave him any credit because he came from Delaware.

Our NCAA woes, the freep/some alumni seem to have an ax to grind against Rich Rod this is very apparent. Last year the team had the highest GPA in twenty years, fact, but the new regime is not concerned with academics or making time for it? I think not. Two of the ‘current’ players in question were freshmen who spoke about all the hard work they put in over the summer saying how long they were out there, nothing about it being mandatory. My guess on the others are upset that they’re not getting the playing time they think they deserve, with the time they put in under Carr ( I still love Carr btw, but thought his stent hand run its course), and now there is a completely new system in place that doesn’t fit their skill set. I’d be upset too, but I doubt I’d try to throw my program under the bus. Do I think they were practicing more than the allotted time, yes. Was in mandatory, no. Is playing time mandatory, no.

 

[irishtrain]

ND-mich

ND-mich

I'd like to see ND make the place real quiet early and then just pour it to'em. This ones for you Danna Jacobson.

 

[JefMaj]

Dana doesn't need any. I don't see her doing any CW jokes anytime soon. Time for Golic to throw her a football - Look alive jacobson!

 

[irishtrain]

ND-mich

ND-mich

JefMaj-thanks for helping me with the spelling. Its funny how I keep doing that with espn names. Maybe its the irrelavancy.

 

[UMrealist]

Here's your response:

6 players = 2 clueless freshman with really meaningless comments who were really ambushed by the "journalist" and 4 disgruntled ex-players (all anonymous) who couldn't cut it in the program.

There is apparently no schism in the locker room by all reports and current players, parents, ex players and even just about all other big ten coaches have come out and called the "nonsense" card on this one.

Your fantasy about ND being some island of goodness and light is just plain comic.

And as far as going 3 and 9 last year .... pot, kettle, black on galactic scale .... gee, what the hell is YOUR record over the last 6 years????? Maybe your guys need to work a little harder and prove something before you run around with your chest puffed out.

Hiller and Clausen ... differences noted and generally excepted. But I heard a lot of "we're not wmu" comments from your gang. True, but WMU is a hell of lot stronger than Nevada and with Hiller in the backfield, they can be a very dangerous team ... that was not, on offense anyway, a pushover.

cheers,
rob

 

[UMrealist]

see ya.

come back after the game.

I will if you will ....

 

[UMrealist]

Just about the last paragraph. Right now Tim Hiller has the tools, size, and mechanics of an NFL player. Most of the hype came from last year when he had Jamarko Simmons to pass to. Kid was a beast. I recently graduated from WMU and remember going to games and watching Simmons and the TE Ledbetter make some unbelievable catches. If this were Jimmy's last year, He wouldn't look as good because he made some bad decisions last year. I believe there is no way you can compare the two. One is a senior coming off of a good year with good recievers to throw to and the experience of being in a program for 3 years prior to this. This is Jimmy's third year in the system. Apples to oranges.

With the thoughts on Rich Rod. There is no proof about over working the players, just he said, he said stuff. It might come out to be nothing, but it might start to divide the locker room. By the looks of the way UM played Saturday, it has done nothing with the team and coach, they looked far better than I expected them to play. I thought WMU would win, but I am biased. I am curious, however, to see how this partnership with a banned booster plays out. Personally I think something will happen to Rich Rod one way or another, I don't like him very much. Not because he is the head coach at UM, (I respected Carr, that's more than I have for Rod) but because of the way he left West Virginia, he had recently signed a contract and then up and left for another school. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, I don't mind intelligent football talk with fans from other schools, we have a person on here who is an OSU fan who brings nothing but good conversation to the table.

Should be an interesting game come saturday, I still think ND wins by at least 21. The depth ND has and the lack of depth UM has will show.

I'm a dual UM/WMU grad ... nice to hear another intelligent Bronco my friend. Agree with every one of your Hiller/Clausen comments ....

The illegal booster thing really was no serious connection and won't turn into anything.

Will something else pop up? Could happen. If they DO find anything major in the NCAA review of the Free Press allegations he's out automatically .... it's part of his UM contract. And he sure seems a bit snakebit.

I run into a bunch of people who have that same view on RichRod ... I personally don't put much stock in it. I don't find RR much different that Nick Saban, Les Miles, Pete Carroll, et. al. -- they're all highly driven, hard working coaches that you don't want to F with too much if you expect to stay in your coaching job when 10 other top schools would love to have them (notice the fat one NOT on that list ...). RR didn't get along with the administration at WVU and wanted out ... it's a simple as that. No matter how much they whine about the manner that it came down, the basic fact is the dude didn't like his boss and wanted out. Broken contract? He paid the contractual fine for leaving (after trying to wiggle out of it of course) and is thus fully in compliance with the letter of his agreement. And of course, nobody changes jobs or breaks contracts in sports anymore ....

I think he's going to stay and I think the results will be hugely successful ... the caliber and type of kids coming into the program is exciting. It's a big change and it's going to produce a lot of pain and loss for the big ten and ND in years to come ....

As for this saturday .... I think the national betting line, about -4 ND right now?, is about right. 21 pt. spread ... unlikely IMO.

But, I'll come back on Sunday or Monday and you can all yell at me or pretend not to be here while I call you all out ....

cheers,
rob

 

[TDHeysus]

To which "other thread" do you refer?

And I didn't mind at all someone calling me on the completion % mistake .... I just typed the wrong number. (And forgot to include "3 TD's and 0 INT's as well).

No idea what UM blog you're talking about ... do you have a real name? I'll go check it out.

Lastly, you will find that the "too many hours" Detroit Free Press report on RichRod's players is absolute nonsense and a classic tempest in a teapot .... ridiculously shoddy journalism (and unfortunately entirely typical of the Free Press). The "compliance management" program at UM is extremely strong. And, I can guarantee you that the amount of work put in by UM players is about exactly the same as it is at ND, at OSU, at LSU, USC, etc., etc., etc. ..... in fact, you'll find Nevada and WMU are pretty much the same as well. That report will amount to nothing and will blow over very quickly, really ... if there was anything to it, I'd be concerned for sure ... there is not.

One final note for those who are convinced that the UM secondary will crumble under a "real" offense as compared to WMU .... there is some justification to that belief, but you're underestimating WMU's quarterback ... Tim Hiller is likely to get drafted in the NFL higher than Jimmy Clausen.

Tim Hiller*|*Western Michigan,*QB*:*2010 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

First Up: Tim Hiller Brings Big Numbers Into The Big House | Bleacher Report


Anyway, I'm off to find grown ups to talk to ....

anyone with a low post count, a UM related name, and antagonistic posts is going to get some smack on a non-UM board. I mean, come on, you only posted on this board to be antagonistic; so dont bitch and complain and throw out insults when ppl crack on you.

you appear to have some passive-aggressive tendencies; posting antagonistic threads on an ND board, then complaining that ND ppl are saucy with you.

you wanna talk the game with an intelligent angle? be here after sept 12th, and I will gladly debate you on anything concerning the ND-UM game, or the state of said programs. No reason to debate before sept 12th, lets wait for the facts to present themselves, and then we can intelligently debate the facts. I wont be hard to find, I read this site everyday. But my bet is, given your low post count, and UM-related name, you wont be here past sept 12th.

put up or shut up

 

[JefMaj]

You can only compare WMU to Nevada based on 2008 stats. Nevada was 6th in nation in run Defense, 8th in tackles for losses, 10th in sacks. Yes, 119 in passing defense. They were what, top three in rushing offense? How the Hell are they (WMU) a Hell of a lot better team than Nevada?

Isn't a wolverine a mammal left to being a scavenger in the UP?

 

[UMrealist]

anyone with a low post count, a UM related name, and antagonistic posts is going to get some smack on a non-UM board. I mean, come on, you only posted on this board to be antagonistic; so dont bitch and complain and throw out insults when ppl crack on you.

you appear to have some passive-aggressive tendencies; posting antagonistic threads on an ND board, then complaining that ND ppl are saucy with you.

you wanna talk the game with an intelligent angle? be here after sept 12th, and I will gladly debate you on anything concerning the ND-UM game, or the state of said programs. No reason to debate before sept 12th, lets wait for the facts to present themselves, and then we can intelligently debate the facts. I wont be hard to find, I read this site everyday. But my bet is, given your low post count, and UM-related name, you wont be here past sept 12th.

put up or shut up

I think my "antagonistic" comments were both mild and brought out only is response to low brow gaks aimed at me from others.

I also don't find topics other than on the field football/game issues - such as random rants on coaches and academics - to be of interest.

On one hand you're right ... I have no long term intentions on this board, only this game/this wekend.

On the other, you're dead wrong in that I did come looking for football related discussion of the game between fans ... not really interested in smack talk stuff.

I suppose "you suck!" kind barking has a place somewhere, but I'm not interested .... boring and pointless.

You're also dead wrong that I won't be happy to show up and discuss results regardless of how they come out ... we'll see who the "idle boaster" is on sunday or monday ... (but again, if it's pointless shouting .... why bother? I'll give it a try and see where it goes.)

cheers,
rob

 

[NDinL.A.]

6 players = 2 clueless freshman with really meaningless comments who were really ambushed by the "journalist" and 4 disgruntled ex-players (all anonymous) who couldn't cut it in the program.

There is apparently no schism in the locker room by all reports and current players, parents, ex players and even just about all other big ten coaches have come out and called the "nonsense" card on this one.

Your fantasy about ND being some island of goodness and light is just plain comic.

And as far as going 3 and 9 last year .... pot, kettle, black on galactic scale .... gee, what the hell is YOUR record over the last 6 years????? Maybe your guys need to work a little harder and prove something before you run around with your chest puffed out.

Hiller and Clausen ... differences noted and generally excepted. But I heard a lot of "we're not wmu" comments from your gang. True, but WMU is a hell of lot stronger than Nevada and with Hiller in the backfield, they can be a very dangerous team ... that was not, on offense anyway, a pushover.

cheers,
rob

* Never said we are angels. Just said the ND players don't have as much free time as Mich players, per their school schedule. You graduate 70% of your students according to the new gradaution rates (before DickRods tenure), we graduate 95-98% yearly, consistently. Those are FACTS. Don't try to come off like we're irrational and you're the only one who is calm and intelligent, and then make sh!t up. I never said we were angels. But the ND football player is a different breed, that is for sure. Go google 2010 QB Andrew Hendrix latest blog about how different ND football players. He's not blowing smoke up your ass, he's just stating the truth. Our players have had their issues, no doubt, but on a much, MUCH smaller scale than most if not all big-name programs. But it this way, drug dealers with a history of run-ins with the law aren't allowed on the ND football team.

* I never denied the 3-9 season. It was hell, believe me, as I'm sure it was for you too last year. I just made a joke about how you guys were putting all that illegal extra work last year (again, no problem with it personally), and you still ended up with only 3 wins. It was an easy joke to make, you've got to admit. If we were putting in all that illegal extra work, got caught for it and someone made the joke, even from a bad program, I'd laugh, b/c well, it is kinda ironic/funny. I always laugh at myself. I told a story here about how I bought this awesome ND hat at discount, and then when I got home it had the Syracuse game logo on it LOL (I still wear it though).

* I also believe you when you say there is no locker room dissension. The play on Saturday proved it. Scoreboard. If you lose on Saturday, things could turn up of course, but that happens almost everywhere after losses. Fingers get pointed. One of our programs will be in major meltdown moads come Saturday night LOL.

* Both teams beat bad teams IMO. I also think the numbers bear out that Nevada is a much better 'bad team' than WM. WM returned 3 starters from a defense that was 87th last year. Nevada's defense, while awful against the pass, was 6th in the nation against the run and we still ran for almost 200 yards. And Nevada's offense returned 8 starters from an offense that averaged almost 40 points a game, and we shut them out. That's damn impressive.

But whatever, that means sh!t come Saturday. Michigan is improved, no doubt, and I don't believe this game will be a pushover like some ND fans are predicting. But I do think ND will win. You think UM will win. That's what fans do. We'll see come Saturday...

 

[UMrealist]

*
But whatever, that means sh!t come Saturday. Michigan is improved, no doubt, and I don't believe this game will be a pushover like some ND fans are predicting. But I do think ND will win. You think UM will win. That's what fans do. We'll see come Saturday...

Yeh, last year was ugly ... I did keep thinking "how the hell did the ND people go through with this?" and ... no offense intended ... how do you suffer through multiple rebuilding years with multiple rebuilding coaches/programs. Scared the stuffing out of the M faithful. There but for the grace of god and RichRod go we ... or something like that.

I do think UM is way more improved than a lot of people recognize at this point ... and I really believe RR is laying in a system and a foundation that will reel off 9 to 11 win seasons like lotto tickets .... in the future.

Not there yet, but you can see it building ...

I will not be surprised at all if Clausen and gang come in and just outscore a questionable defense to win ... but I won't be too shocked either if M hangs in and wins it. They are the underdog, but they are at home, they have talent, and they have a decent shot at it.

Great tradition, great game ... Can't wait to be there saturday. cheers,
rob

 

[UMrealist]

Fingers get pointed. One of our programs will be in major meltdown moads come Saturday night LOL.

* Both teams beat bad teams IMO. I also think the numbers bear out that Nevada is a much better 'bad team' than WM. WM returned 3 starters from a defense that was 87th last year. Nevada's defense, while awful against the pass, was 6th in the nation against the run and we still ran for almost 200 yards. And Nevada's offense returned 8 starters from an offense that averaged almost 40 points a game, and we shut them out. That's damn impressive.
.[/QUOTE]


Two other points ... I don't think UM will be in turmoil if they lose. Disappointed, a little "brought back to earth" and all that ... but not a shock. I doubt the same can't be said for CW and company .... they have to be looking at this one as a measuring stick about really belonging in the top 10 to 20 ... I'm suspecting a loss would be much more devastating.

WMU v. Nevada: Good points ... I really didn't dig into the stats.

 

[TDHeysus]

....One of our programs will be in major meltdown moads come Saturday night LOL......

one of them already is in meltdown mode, it just hasnt hit rock bottom yet. its close, but not there yet. I'll give you a hint: its 2009, not 2007.

... I don't think UM will be in turmoil if they lose....

isnt this contradicting your own (above) statement???



Your right tho, UM wont be in turmoil:

Players leaving the program on their own
Drug dealers on the roster
Practice violations, then snitched on by HIS OWN PLAYERS (love that one)
linked to a shady booster


yea, your right...UM is fine. its just as when Bo Schembechler was coach. I remember when Bo's players snitched on him too...

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Yeh, last year was ugly ... I did keep thinking "how the hell did the ND people go through with this?"

If any of the rest of the ND faithful were like me, we drank - HEAVILY. Not just a few brews during the game either. I'm talking straight shots of Jack just to give us the courage to turn on the TV Saturday mornings. I am still scarred from that season.