Change we can believe in

ACamp1900

ACamp1900

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LOVEMYIRISH said:
Agreed.

Abortion, Stem Cell research, etc. I *LOVE* how he has changed Bush's policies...I fully support him on those...but there is no middle ground.
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You are dead on there, I have liked to think over the past ten years that I was in the middle ground... but from what I have seen Obama has taken this issue to extremes...

Okay, I need some clarification... you are probably going somewhere and I went the other when I read this...

So do you support tax dollar funding abortions in Mexico?? Do you support the stance of telling people to be tolerate of others then forcing Catholic Hospitals to perform abortions or face closure, or is it just the killing of babies you're in favor of???? lol... I apologize for the use of verbage but the question is actually legit. I understand Stem Cell Research and the basic idea of abortion, but the man's views on late term abortion, those that he himself called murder during the first debate with McCain, are down right inhuman...

Anyway, aside from stem cells, what is there to like??? Your post didn't go into details and I am curious what he has doen that an intelligent person would like... I must have missed something ( And very well prob. did) right?? What is it??

LOVEMYIRISH said:
Do you mean the Republican dominated Congress of 2001-2006? Or the Democratic one from 2007-2008?

Bush warned the REPUBLICAN Congress to do something 4+ years ago...not the Democrats.

Hard to place blame on the people who were not in power...unless of course you believe that the Dems were using some kind of secret mind control weapon.

Maybe you need to do a little research?
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Pelosi, Clinton, Reed and the whole lot who now blame Bush for EVERYTHING were involved... but that's beside the point... it is Bush's policies that got us here... no such Congress, Demo or Repub, ever existed... and that’s frustrating when Obama has had many chances to simply put down the ax and thus far has only added to the fire... but the right has proven no better towards him... both sides are to blame, I wish we could just get past it

I also saw today that according to Obama the economy is not all that bad... this after he used to words 'disaster' and 'crisis' about half a million times to win election, but now that he is here and his ratings are falling daily... "America has to understand it's really not that bad" It's very sad to me, I have been very hard on our President but honestly he has given me NOTHING to look at in a positive light to this point... It's very depressing... I have prayed his admin will prove me wrong..........

oh, btw, apparently, "Change we can believe in" (I like to call it change for changes sake) could include a stimulus for illegal immigrants while cutting back veteran's benefits... who in their right mind can justify that???

BUT despite the urge to say the writing is on the wall I must admit... we have to give him more time... I know this post goes back and forth tone wise but that's the honest feeling right now... Let's not tear this country further apart... sigh
 
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IrishAddiction

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Im starting a new middle class party.....i think i will call it ummm.... the american party..... we work for money, we arent lazy or greedy fucking rich. Screw the repubs and the dems..... both parties are lead by idiots who have no intention of serving the american publics interest. Oh yea, go irish.

dammit im republican did i just screw myself....
 
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WabashFalcon

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Hey... unless we get our ducks in order soon...

OH SHIT... do you feel those tremors?

Is it??? IT IS!!! ROBOT Stalin and ROBOT Hitler!!!!!

WWIII???







This has been posted to bring chuckles and laffs to this somber page.... A'ight.
 
LOVEMYIRISH

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ACamp1900 said:
You are dead on there, I have liked to think over the past ten years that I was in the middle ground... but from what I have seen Obama has taken this issue to extremes...
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The last 8 years of abortion and stem cell research policy has been pretty much as far right as you can get...

So do you support tax dollar funding abortions in Mexico??
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I support funding family planning efforts worldwide even if that includes funding organizations that perform abortions.

Do you support the stance of telling people to be tolerate of others then forcing Catholic Hospitals to perform abortions or face closure, or is it just the killing of babies you're in favor of????
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That's not going to happen... You are referring to FOCA. This same legislation has been passed in Maryland and not one Catholic Hospital has closed. And I don't see it as killing babies, sorry.

... but the man's views on late term abortion, ..., are down right inhuman...
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Sorry, I disagree. It's an amazingly rare occurance and has been used to save mother's lives.

Anyway, aside from stem cells, what is there to like??? Your post didn't go into details and I am curious what he has doen that an intelligent person would like... I must have missed something ( And very well prob. did) right?? What is it??
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Executive Orders so far that I like...
1) Stem Cell
2) Limitations on lobbyists
3) Limits on Executive Privilege
4) Closing Guantanamo
5) Government Trasparency
6) Revocation of Executive Order 13422

Here's what he's done so far...
Deprecated Browser Error

I also saw today that according to Obama the economy is not all that bad... this after he used to words 'disaster' and 'crisis' about half a million times to win election, but now that he is here and his ratings are falling daily... "America has to understand it's really not that bad"
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It's sad that he did this...he never should have uttered the positive phrases. I think it will come back to haunt him.

oh, btw, apparently, "Change we can believe in" (I like to call it change for changes sake) could include a stimulus for illegal immigrants while cutting back veteran's benefits... who in their right mind can justify that???
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Cutting back Vet benefits? Ummm... George Bush. He cut them more than any in history. :) Oh yeah, the Republican Congress voted for that.

BUT despite the urge to say the writing is on the wall I must admit... we have to give him more time... I know this post goes back and forth tone wise but that's the honest feeling right now... Let's not tear this country further apart... sigh
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I agree the writing is on the wall. So far it's mostly positive. Some is hard to call (like will the financial rescue package work?).

He's taken quick decisive action. He's put together his cabinet faster than any President before him. He's been bold in what he's done.

His budget coming up will be interesting. I think there may be a few things I don't like.

But one thing I do see is intentional diversion by his opponents. When the spending bill came out all they could talk about was earmarks, which comprised 2% of the bill. Lindsay Graham ON TV even said that if they banned earmarks, he would just have his written into the bill...thus making them NOT earmarks. But the spending would still happen. Classic. If his opponents REALLY cared they would focus on mountain, not the molehill.
 
ACamp1900

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well LMI... we disagree on most but agree on some... closing Guantanamo, funding abortions in other countries when we have medical and economic issues here, and not considering LATE TERM abortions murder or that it will only be done to saves the mothers life are pretty much where we disagree... and BELIEVE me the Catholic Hospitals will close rather than perform abortions... and of course my “What is to like” statement was directed at his ideas (continually evolving ideas at that) on abortion and the governments role in it… and again, that’s a great way to be tolerate when you can get an abortion at any community hospital/clinic to begin with… but we obviously will agree to disagree here because you see anti abortion laws as extreme… I see forcing it down peoples throats and killing ANYTHING that now has a heart, brain, functioning lungs and such that has not committed a deed that calls for such action definitely and indisputably murder and as extreme as it can get…

military cut backs?? well I have found when someone of rock solid poloitical ideals has been push into a corner they tend to drop the "well look what the other side did"... Obama wants co pays for those injured while serving our country... there is no comparrison to Bush or any other President for that matter

With all that said I do respect your views, even if I don’t understand some of them... again, we just have to agree to disagree for sure... I think I'll get back to some sports and music talk now...
 
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WabashFalcon

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Anyone else see what he did this weekend?

Let me preface this: I am a moderate. I do not take sides. But I point out moments when both parties are being hypocrits.

This weekend, Obama said that to fund his national health insurance, he is going to tax insurance premiums... the thing that he destroyed McCain for in the election. Thing is, he is not going to include the tax credit.

Also, Russia's moved their bombers from Russia into Cuba and Venezuela as means of testing him. I don't know what this means... but I DO NOT like the fact that he is already doing shit he said that he would not. I believe in a man's word. If a kid in my class says that he or she is going to go to the bathroom, I believe them. Yet, when they lie... when that word is broken, I lose respect for both their word and their character.

Again, I am a Moderate. I did vote for McCain however. It is just... I can't STAND people that lie. It is the one thing that I hate.
 
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IrishAddiction

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WabashFalcon said:
Anyone else see what he did this weekend?

Let me preface this: I am a moderate. I do not take sides. But I point out moments when both parties are being hypocrits.

This weekend, Obama said that to fund his national health insurance, he is going to tax insurance premiums... the thing that he destroyed McCain for in the election. Thing is, he is not going to include the tax credit.

Also, to test him, Russia's moved their bombers from Russia into Cuba and Venezuela as means of testing him. I don't know what this means... but I DO NOT like the fact that he is already doing shit he said that he would not. I believe in a man's word. If a kid in my class says that he or she is going to go to the bathroom, I believe them. Yet, when they lie... what that word is broken, I lose respect for both their word and their character.

Again, I am a Moderate. I did vote for McCain however. It is just... I can't STAND people that lie. It is the one thing that I hate.
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politicians that keep their word. ha that will be the day. he won the primarys by saying he was against NAFTA, never even mentioned it in the general. i didnt know about the whole russia moving bombers to cuba and venezuela thing though. are they really that effing stupid?
 
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notredomer23

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In 2010 when the republicans take power back in congress and the senate, I really dont see anyway he stays in power if he keeps this up. Bush might have been bad, but Obama is just epicly failing
 
Junkhead

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notredomer23 said:
. Bush might have been bad, but Obama is just epicly failing
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Obama (though I voted for him) hasn't really impressed me that much yet. Jury is still out. Bush on the other hand....lol Check back in a few years before making that ridiculous comparison.
 
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NeuteredDoomer

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IrishAddiction said:
Im starting a new middle class party.....i think i will call it ummm.... the american party..... we work for money, we arent lazy or greedy fucking rich. Screw the repubs and the dems..... both parties are lead by idiots who have no intention of serving the american publics interest. Oh yea, go irish.

dammit im republican did i just screw myself....
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lol

I'll join your party bud.
 
LOVEMYIRISH

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notredomer23 said:
In 2010 when the republicans take power back in congress and the senate, I really dont see anyway he stays in power if he keeps this up. Bush might have been bad, but Obama is just epicly failing
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Bush was the worst President since Hoover...it's damn near impossible to top the last 8 years.
 
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WabashFalcon

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LOVEMYIRISH said:
Bush was the worst President since Hoover...it's damn near impossible to top the last 8 years.
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I disagree. Political scholars have debated this and have come up with a list of the top ten worst presidents of all time. Don't believe me? Look at this:

The 10 Worst Presidents

We are quick to judge in this age of instant gratification. Buchanan did nothing to stop slavery. Harding was a fuck-up. Johnson destroyed African Americans in the South during Reconstruction. Pierce did nothing to stop our nation from snowballing to Civil War.

Buck up. Stop making snap judgements. We will let HISTORY show how good or bad a leader Bush was.
 
LOVEMYIRISH

LOVEMYIRISH

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ACamp1900 said:
well LMI... we disagree on most but agree on some... closing Guantanamo, funding abortions in other countries when we have medical and economic issues here, and not considering LATE TERM abortions murder or that it will only be done to saves the mothers life are pretty much where we disagree...
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You definitely don't have to like it. But as far as fulfilling campaign promises goes, he right on with those.

and BELIEVE me the Catholic Hospitals will close rather than perform abortions...
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People can say over and over again that this will happen, but it won't. Catholic hospitals are too prevalent AND this has been mostly done already in Maryland with no such impact.

but we obviously will agree to disagree here because you see anti abortion laws as extreme…
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I don't see them as extreme, I see them as unconstitutional and dangerous.

I see forcing it down peoples throats and killing ANYTHING that now has a heart, brain, functioning lungs and such that has not committed a deed that calls for such action definitely and indisputably murder and as extreme as it can get…
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Yup, it's a debate that cannot be reconciled.

military cut backs?? well I have found when someone of rock solid poloitical ideals has been push into a corner they tend to drop the "well look what the other side did"... Obama wants co pays for those injured while serving our country... there is no comparrison to Bush or any other President for that matter
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Not offering care that is needed to veterans is far worse than charging a small amount. Plenty of vets have been denied the care they needed outright do to cuts and changes in health policy for vets (in the last 8 years).
 
LOVEMYIRISH

LOVEMYIRISH

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WabashFalcon said:
I disagree. Political scholars have debated this and have come up with a list of the top ten worst presidents of all time. Don't believe me? Look at this:

The 10 Worst Presidents

We are quick to judge in this age of instant gratification. Buchanan did nothing to stop slavery. Harding was a fuck-up. Johnson destroyed African Americans in the South during Reconstruction. Pierce did nothing to stop our nation from snowballing to Civil War.

Buck up. Stop making snap judgements. We will let HISTORY show how good or bad a leader Bush was.
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Ummm...notice that there is only ONE President they name since Hoover? Nixon.

I do agree that what he did was horrible...but I am not rating him on Watergate alone, I rate him on his record outside of that as well.

Bush could not be on this list since it was done 2 years ago.

I judge Bush on plenty of things:
1) His disregard for AMERICAN'S constitutional rights
2) The damage he did to America's standing in the world (thus emboldening our enemies)
3) Letting Russia rise again and unchecked
4) Letting Afghanistan alone while tangentially attacking Iraq
5) His views on Science as a whole
6) His profligate spending
7) Given tax cuts before he reduced the debt

There are plenty of things...

He did do more positive things in regards to the way Africa views us though...so that's good.
 
LOVEMYIRISH

LOVEMYIRISH

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WabashFalcon said:
Really? Kinda like he said he wouldn't take insurance premiums to fund national health care? Oops... something happened this weekend that LMI didn't know about...
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I never said he was 100%, I am talking about his executive orders...

But as far as fulfilling campaign promises goes, he right on with those.
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That statement was in regards to his executive orders.

As regards health insurance premiums for national healthcare, what specifically are you referring to?
 
ACamp1900

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Well a couple things are obvious here to me... no one ever changed anyone else's political views on a message board and it isn't going to happen now...

and for someone who has always been fairly moderate (I'm a Conservative Economically and feel Gov. program are almost at whole not needed... thats my passion, so I am a regd. Repub.) who def. has tended to take each issue as seperate from party lines over the last ten plus years I am becoming a raging conservative on most issues more with each passing day...
 
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IrishAlum1997

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LOVEMYIRISH said:
I never said he was 100%, I am talking about his executive orders...



That statement was in regards to his executive orders.

QUOTE]

LMI, just want to make sure you are ok with the Gitmo prisoners coming to Minnesota. I hear there's plenty of room and constitutional rights for the murderers of innocents up there.
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