Recruiting Analysis - Medicine to sooth the nerves!

[jonesman]

Over the last few days we have seen many folks here freak out because we lost a recruit who went back to his original choice. Further, because we have less than 20 recruits and our ranking is out of the Top 10, some folks are on the cliff ready to jump. Finally, this is giving some further evidence that CW is losing his grip.

So, let's all take a deep breath and relax. The world is not crumbling around us and all will be fine in South Bend. Don't get the impression that I am a CW cult member, far from it. I have criticized his decision making many times. But, one aspect of his job has been successful, RECRUITING!!

First, just the facts. CW has brought in three Top 10 recruiting classes. He has loaded the skill positions with 5* talent. He is courting the best LB in the country in Manti Teo who has us in his top 3. Analysts are already stating that ND is in the drivers seat for a Top 5 class in 2010.

Second, how do we stand at each position?? Let's look.

QB>>>>> We have Clausen with 2 years and Crist with 4 years of eligibility. We have a Montana as a back-up. So, would any real talent want to come in and sit for 4 years, NOT. We already have several in our sights for next season which is realistic.
2009 verdict - No commits, no problem.

RB>>>>> We have a stable of 4 studs. We have two serious talents coming.
2009 verdict - full house, sweet.

FB>>>> We have Schwaap for one more season and Paskorz for 3 years. Need is one every other year. Gaffney is still in play.
2009 verdict - Nice if we get Gaffney, but not critical

TE>>>> We have two studs in Ragone and Rudolph along with another potential in Fauria. They all have 3 years. We got 2 guys this year who are mid tear guys with good upside.
2009 verdict - Two guys, upside talent.

WR>>>> The talent pool is spilling over. Floyd, Tate, Kamara all have 2-3 years. Walker and Goodman 4 years and skills. Shaq is great get considering the full depth. Nobody else was going to come aboard.
2009 verdict - perfection

OT>>>> Duncan and Young with 1 year left. Dever, Romine, Clelland with 3-4 years and solid talent. We got Martin who is solid tackle.
2009 verdict - good would have liked one more.

OG>>>> We have Olsen for 1 more year. Stewart has 2 years. Nuss and Robinson 3 years. Bullard and Watt are committed. Talent and depth are there.
2009 verdict - perfection

OC>>>>> Wenger has 2 years, Bemenderfer 1. Cave and Golic still have 4 years. No need currently. No offers
2009 verdict - none as expected

NT>>>> We have Ian Williams for 2 more years. Newman for 4 years. We needed one here, got none.
2009 verdict - dissapointing

DT>>>> Hafis, Nwanko and Cwynar for 4 years. We need two studs here. We got one in Stockton.
2009 verdict - one stud, needed two

DE>>>> KLM and Ethan Johnson have 3-4 years. Johnson is AA in the making. Need two. Fox is listed at LB, but will most likely become a DE/OLB highbreed like Neal and Fleming. We are still in the mix for Custis and now Buchanon. If we close on one of those, we will DE need.
2009 verdict - half way there, either Custis or Buchanon means perfection.

ILB>>> Smith, Smith and Smith return for next season. Brian has 2 years left. McDonald, Filer and Poz will be here for 3-4 years. We would llike to have 2 but need one for sure. Carlo is committed and Manti is a possible.
2009 verdict - looking good, could be AWESOME

OLB>>>>Fleming and Neal have 2-3 years left. Filer could move OLB, so could Brian. Need 1, with 2 being perfect.
2009 verdict - Motta is perfect fit, would like 1 more.

S>>>> McCarthy and Brown have 1 more season. Smith has 3 years. Dan McCarthy has 4 years. Gaines could return and give more depth for 2 years. Would like to have two, need 1.
2009 verdict - big miss so far, Moore could change it all. Late charge at Starling possible.

CB>>>> Walls and McNeil for 1 more year. Blanton and Gray for 3 years. Slaughter for 4 years. The need is for one for sure. Two would be good in case, Walls leaves after 09 and Gray does not return.
verdict - Banks and Nyshiere fit the bill, solid.

Kicker>>>> Walker has turned the corner. He has 2 years left. Taush and Turk fill the class.
verdict - full house

2009 Cupboard Results after this class arrives:

Full Cupboards - Lots of meat and potatoes. Extra helpings and some desert. Replenish as needed.
QB, RB, WR, TE, K/P, OL

Solid Cupboard with lean stock. These cupboards are great for 2009, but not beyond. Restocking needed.
CB, Safety, ILB, OLB

Ole Mother Hubbard Cupboard. These only contain a couple good meats at each position. Need grocery cart full of goods.
DT, DE

Final thoughts, CW is doing pretty darn good job again in 2009. Furher, he does not want to fill to many spots which could take away from 2010 class which has much more talent as stated by almost evey recruiting service. So, relax and enjoy are boyz in 2009. GO IRISH!!!!!

 

[SpeedsterX]

Excellent post! Thanks for taking the time to open some eyes!

 

[wahoo]

The recuits may be there but the results have not been. ND can have the highest ranked recruiting class in the country but until we start seeing them produce on the field then the ranking doesn't mean a damm thing. I'm hoping the bowl game will be the first step in a long line of success on the field!

 

[NDinL.A.]

Jesus Jonesie, where have you been? I've been fighting this damn fight for the past 2 days with only a couple guys on my side. I've been trying to say exactly what you said, but you said it much better, esp with the depth charts. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

As for the coaching Wahoo, yeah, we know. But we're talking recruiting here. As you said, recruiting means jack if the coaches can't get the results on the field. But people have taken the opportunity to drill CW on recruiting because one hometown kid that was already iffy to begin with switched to his hometown school and they hate CW as it is. And he's getting hammered for his closing, when it makes no sense. You don't have 3 top 10 classes in a row if you don't know how to close. You don't have talent the likes of Michael Floyd, Jimmy Clausen, Brian Smith, Kyle Rudolph, etc etc, if you don't know how to close. People got all frenzied because of one waffling kid, when there was no need. Yeah, he's lost a couple recruits, but so has EVERY coach, including Sneaky Pete and Urban Legend.

Now, if we could get CW to close out games, then...

 

[Rocket's Rocket Fan]

Great post jonesman...reps

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Great post as always Jonesman. But I wish ND football would recruit and coach football athletes instead of Prima Donnas. Tate getting friggen annoying with his celebration crap.

I hates mees a Prima Donnas.

Friggens kneecaps comes to minds...

Cartilage is delicious to chomp on. Really. It crunches so nice.

 

[BeatSC]

Great post as always Jonesman. But I wish ND football would recruit and coach football athletes instead of Prima Donnas. Tate getting friggen annoying with his celebration crap.

I hates mees a Prima Donnas.

Friggens kneecaps comes to minds...

Cartilage is delicious to chomp on. Really. It crunches so nice.

Thought I was the only one noticing GT getting a little carried away posing for the fans and mugging for the cameras. I think he's great but the team comes first. This is ND not USC or FL. He needs to class it up a bit.

 

[wahoo]

Jesus Jonesie, where have you been? I've been fighting this damn fight for the past 2 days with only a couple guys on my side. I've been trying to say exactly what you said, but you said it much better, esp with the depth charts. Thanks for taking the time to do this.

As for the coaching Wahoo, yeah, we know. But we're talking recruiting here. As you said, recruiting means jack if the coaches can't get the results on the field. But people have taken the opportunity to drill CW on recruiting because one hometown kid that was already iffy to begin with switched to his hometown school and they hate CW as it is. And he's getting hammered for his closing, when it makes no sense. You don't have 3 top 10 classes in a row if you don't know how to close. You don't have talent the likes of Michael Floyd, Jimmy Clausen, Brian Smith, Kyle Rudolph, etc etc, if you don't know how to close. People got all frenzied because of one waffling kid, when there was no need. Yeah, he's lost a couple recruits, but so has EVERY coach, including Sneaky Pete and Urban Legend.

Now, if we could get CW to close out games, then...

I have never said CW can't recruit. In fact, I think he is outstanding at it. I would like to see a more concentrated effort in getting some D linemen. If ND wants to make a run at the NC I think the defense needs to improve. The strength of the team is the wideouts and TE....I'd match them against anyone in the country

 

[NDinL.A.]

I have never said CW can't recruit. In fact, I think he is outstanding at it. I would like to see a more concentrated effort in getting some D linemen. If ND wants to make a run at the NC I think the defense needs to improve. The strength of the team is the wideouts and TE....I'd match them against anyone in the country

The defense needs more studs, period. No doubt, esp on the Dline (and LB's as well, shoot). No argument there...

 

[fightinirish68]

kapron lewis moore, brandon newman, sean cwynar, ethan johnson, hafis williams, tyler stockton--all sophmores or less.

ian williams , nuss (not sure if they have made a complete ideo on de or ot for this guy) and emeka nwankwo --jrs

paddy mullen, john ryan, and morrice richardson --srs

its not like we lack complete depth at dline, why is everyone freakin out here?

 

[NDOM]

Yeah Yeah Yeah! Good post I GUESS..............................BUT all that shit doesnt really matter when you have a 10-15 record the past 2 years now does it? He can be the best recruiter EVER but as long as he CANT coach (which he has proven) all that good talent that he gets wont amount to shit now will it? So lets just see what you have to say about that now. Too many Charlie Weis head givers on this site!!!! GOD wake up for fuck sake or at least watch the same GODDAMN game I do.

Oh and I forgot to add one little tidbit......................Pretty sad when he is bringing in all these "Awesome" recruits when he has pretty much the same if not worse records than Willingham and Davie now isnt it?

 

[irish4ever]

Yeah Yeah Yeah! Good post I GUESS..............................BUT all that shit doesnt really matter when you have a 10-15 record the past 2 years now does it? He can be the best recruiter EVER but as long as he CANT coach (which he has proven) all that good talent that he gets wont amount to shit now will it? So lets just see what you have to say about that now. Too many Charlie Weis head givers on this site!!!! GOD wake up for fuck sake or at least watch the same GODDAMN game I do.

Oh, these are new type of comments nobody has heard before (other than maybe using God's name in vain). The past 2 yrs. record has been pounded and pounded ... enough already. It's not a surprise point to anyone and I've been as disappointed as any Irish fan! What is done is done, so get the f*ck over it and let's move on. ND is still landing good talent and current roster is fairly solid ... that's what this thread is all about!

 

[JeremyND07]

Good post but I disagree with Gaffney "not critical". Schwaap is not a good FB. Unless we move Hughs or Aldridge FB is a big need for us right now! We have no 5 start recruits in this class. We need to finish strong for this to be a more then just average class. CW comes out and wins a lot of games and leaves no doubt that he is the coach in 2010...and I think that class will be the best we have at ND EVER!!!!!

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

why is everyone freakin out here?

Heroin and mushroom party. Where were you?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Oh, these are new type of comments nobody has heard before (other than maybe using God's name in vain). The past 2 yrs. record has been pounded and pounded ... enough already. It's not a surprise point to anyone and I've been as disappointed as any Irish fan! What is done is done, so get the f*ck over it and let's move on. ND is still landing good talent and current roster is fairly solid ... that's what this thread is all about!

God damn it.

I'm cute.

 

[Shamrock44]

great post jonesman.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Thought I was the only one noticing GT getting a little carried away posing for the fans and mugging for the cameras. I think he's great but the team comes first. This is ND not USC or FL. He needs to class it up a bit.

I wish everyone would make up their mind. We want swagger, we want nasty. Then we want class. Can't we have both? Golden puts his fists on his hips a la Superman. Tell me he's not the Man of Steel. I think it's a little goofy to see JC flashing the hang loose sign, but the Tate Superman pose is cool with me. He's a nice complement to Floyd.

Be grateful we have playmakers that can do that. Did you gripe when Samardzija was waving at defenders on his way into the endzone? 'Popping' the ND logo after a TD in the Bush Push game? Zibby making the X symbol with his arms after a big play?

Sorry, not calling anyone out here. We want a big nasty O-line with attitude, but receivers that just hand the ball to the official and go back to the huddle? That's not showing up anyone.

 

[BeatSC]

I wish everyone would make up their mind. We want swagger, we want nasty. Then we want class. Can't we have both? Golden puts his fists on his hips a la Superman. Tell me he's not the Man of Steel. I think it's a little goofy to see JC flashing the hang loose sign, but the Tate Superman pose is cool with me. He's a nice complement to Floyd.

Be grateful we have playmakers that can do that. Did you gripe when Samardzija was waving at defenders on his way into the endzone? 'Popping' the ND logo after a TD in the Bush Push game? Zibby making the X symbol with his arms after a big play?

Sorry, not calling anyone out here. We want a big nasty O-line with attitude, but receivers that just hand the ball to the official and go back to the huddle? That's not showing up anyone.

I agree with what you're saying but it meant more when those guys were doing it because we were winning 10 games and not punking out to Syracuse. GT is awesome and should be a leader next year.

 

[alleycat9]

great post, i do have serious concerns about the fb position as was posted earlier. schwaap is NOT a FB, the kid needs to do a tremendous amount of work on his blocking. this position is one of need.

the dl scares me a little but i think there is some possibiliity for success there i really like e johnson. this isnt a huge 5 star need position in the 3-4 that we run. need for some very tough characters at all 3 dl positions. bottom line is that the defense will not be a good run d until there is a BIG and i mean BIG body in the middle to take up blockers. i dont see we have that right now and dont know who can become that in the future. that is a HUGE concern. and one reason why running a 3-4 is a problem at the college level. most great dts do not make good nts.

all the depth on the oline is overrated, i dont really like any of the guys we had there last year and i can only hope that some people will be pushed for thier jobs this year. as i do not see these guys that are coming back improving to the point they need to.

bottom line is that i dont care how much talent you have at the skill positions, if you dont have a dominant o line and a dominant nt this team will not succeed. and those are pretty weak at this point. and i really dont see the guys that we had last year doing the job the way it needs to be done.

 

[jonesman]

alleycat,
I appreciate your thoughts, but I will not agree with you on FB. This is a position that is not vital to our success. You are seeing this position become almost extinct in the college football game.

 

[alleycat9]

i agree that it is not as important as it used to be however i seem to always be watching schwaap missing a block. while its importance is not nearly as big as it used to be i just dont see him getting the job done when he is asked to. and it does happen a number of times a game even though we run alot of 1 back sets.

i definitely feel that the lines are the most important thing. well the oline and the dt at least. because i really dont feel its necessary to have a stud at de in the 3-4.

i think we may agree more than you think, maybe i just overstated the importance of the fb position.

and i surely dont mind disagreement, thats the only way i can get a different perspective

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I wish everyone would make up their mind. We want swagger, we want nasty. Then we want class. Can't we have both? Golden puts his fists on his hips a la Superman. Tell me he's not the Man of Steel. I think it's a little goofy to see JC flashing the hang loose sign, but the Tate Superman pose is cool with me. He's a nice complement to Floyd.

Be grateful we have playmakers that can do that. Did you gripe when Samardzija was waving at defenders on his way into the endzone? 'Popping' the ND logo after a TD in the Bush Push game? Zibby making the X symbol with his arms after a big play?

Sorry, not calling anyone out here. We want a big nasty O-line with attitude, but receivers that just hand the ball to the official and go back to the huddle? That's not showing up anyone.

Great post but... My mind is made up. I friggen hate swagger. Get the friggen job done and shut your damn trap. Cockiness is for, well, COCKS.

I cringed when Samardzia pulled his bullshit. He lost me as a fan.

Seems to me too many have fallen for CW's "nasty" and "swagger" rhetoric. That's all it is - rhetoric. Get the friggen job done and get back to the friggen huddle. I HATES mees a prima donnas.

Damns, theres goes the letters "S" agains. I needs toos fixes thats stuffs. Shits.

 

[Clausen2Kamara]

Yeah Yeah Yeah! Good post I GUESS..............................BUT all that shit doesnt really matter when you have a 10-15 record the past 2 years now does it? He can be the best recruiter EVER but as long as he CANT coach (which he has proven) all that good talent that he gets wont amount to shit now will it? So lets just see what you have to say about that now. Too many Charlie Weis head givers on this site!!!! GOD wake up for fuck sake or at least watch the same GODDAMN game I do.

Oh and I forgot to add one little tidbit......................Pretty sad when he is bringing in all these "Awesome" recruits when he has pretty much the same if not worse records than Willingham and Davie now isnt it?

I respect you and all bro but the hating is getting old...Yes we know ND could have won at least 9 games last year but we didn't. Is it his fault entirely? Please. The team got 2 comfortable and were not experienced enough to have the killer instinct. Its logical to blame CW but we were in great position to win a lot more than we did. But we didn't get over it. Who do you want as our HC? My lord.

 

[tankjeep]

first off, great post jonesie.

2ndly, i agree with neuteredoomer....i feel when you do your job, be happy and move on. act like you do it all the time. act like you expect to score TD's all the time. why do we need to celebrate like a bunch of thugs or be classless with it.

my good ole high school coach would tell us that if we scored, hand the ball off to the referee and head back to your teammates on the sidelines and be happy their. act as if you've been there before.

 

[phgreek]

first off, great post jonesie.

2ndly, i agree with neuteredoomer....i feel when you do your job, be happy and move on. act like you do it all the time. act like you expect to score TD's all the time. why do we need to celebrate like a bunch of thugs or be classless with it.

my good ole high school coach would tell us that if we scored, hand the ball off to the referee and head back to your teammates on the sidelines and be happy their. act as if you've been there before.

Amen...As my coach used to say..."Act like ya know son"...To me swagger is knowing not celebrating.

Another thing I'd add...Emotion is an absolute necessity...between the lines and whistles...dancing around and pointing after ya score is not emotion...its self promotion...its not swagger, its classless.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Amen...As my coach used to say..."Act like ya know son"...To me swagger is knowing not celebrating.

Another thing I'd add...Emotion is an absolute necessity...between the lines and whistles...dancing around and pointing after ya score is not emotion...its self promotion...its not swagger, its classless.

Let me first just say that I totally see your guys' points, and I'm not saying that you're wrong at all. I actually preach that very same thing to the kids I coach and teach (both h.s. and elementary). My girls high school bball team just had a huge win last night on our rivals home floor, and they wanted to start jumping in a circle as we did our huddle after the game, and my exact words were, "Be good winners, act like you've done this before." So I get it.

HOWEVER, I feel a little different when it comes to ND football and I guess my teams in general. Call me a hypocrit - I guess I know I'm being one. But I LOVE THE ATTITUDE! I love the self-confidence, the feeling that you're better than your opponent, and you let your opponent KNOW it. You think Larry Bird didn't talk a ton of shit?

Man, I remember CW's first game, after years of ineptitude, and that team came out vs. Pitt (??) and just laid the wood to them. A complete shocker. What I remember was a little known receiver making plays down field, blocking like crazy, and playing with a cockiness ND hadn't seen in years. And when the Shark pointed to his ND emblem on his shirt, I loved it! All of my ND friends that I was watching it with ate it up too. He basically said, "We're ND, you're not, and we're gonna kick your ass today." Fan-friggin-tastic. We were back (for a minute anyways), and the whole nation knew it. That's how you kick ass. That's what we lacked this year - the emotion and the cockiness and yes, the swagger.

And Golden Tate brings that to the team. He's a talker, as is Blanton (they have BATTLES in practice, one on one, shit-talking the whole way). And of course, as is Jimmy. I gotta admit, the way Jimmy acted on the Hawaii field after ND scored, I told me lady, "Well, the rest of the country's gonna hate him even more now, but I fucking love it!" The hang ten signs, the look he gave the Hawaii sideline after one long score (shaking his head as if to say, "I thought you knew." I ate that shit up!

Now, I'm not talking USC, Miami, classless-going-overboard stuff. I can't stand the crap they do, and I don't think GMoney has gone overboard (OK, maybe once). I'm just saying, have a little attitude, a little fun, a little cockiness. Play like college kids and loosen up and kick some damn ass like you know you can.

Rant over, go ahead and laugh at me for being such a hypocrit!!!

 

[IrishAddiction]

swagger-to walk with an conceited strut, to act pompously, or to brag noisily.

yeah, i am also one to agree with nuetered, tankjeep, and phgreek on this..... swagger is entirely unnecessary to win football games. quinn didnt do it, he showed emotion. abamiri didnt either, and he was IMO the best d-end we have had in many many years. i dont mind emotion, those guys showed it. i dont mind getting in the other players head either, but just promoting yourself is stupidity.

i dont think tate is a swaggering cock like some on here either, i think kuntz was more than him actually. taunting the sidelines, or doing dances bugs the hell out of me for sure. after a good play, all i say when they do that is "way to ruin a good play."

line up, kick ass, save the celebration for when you win the game, not just one battle.

 

[ARALOU]

I have it from a fairly reliable source that Hawaii was really talking some trash before and in the early parts of the game. Even tried a couple cheap shots. The Irish got really pissed and kicked their ass.

I dont mind a little "posturing" after a "big, game changing play" but doing shit after a pass break up or something that happens frequently in game gets old.

A big play that changes momentum or finishes a team off. I dont want to see someone do the "cant seem me" crap when the game is still in question or the other team is dominating. I have seen guys strut around like banty roosters after a so-so play and be down by two touchdowns on the score board. That is a bad time to act like you are "DA MAN".

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Let me first just say that I totally see your guys' points, and I'm not saying that you're wrong at all. I actually preach that very same thing to the kids I coach and teach (both h.s. and elementary). My girls high school bball team just had a huge win last night on our rivals home floor, and they wanted to start jumping in a circle as we did our huddle after the game, and my exact words were, "Be good winners, act like you've done this before." So I get it.

HOWEVER, I feel a little different when it comes to ND football and I guess my teams in general. Call me a hypocrit - I guess I know I'm being one. But I LOVE THE ATTITUDE! I love the self-confidence, the feeling that you're better than your opponent, and you let your opponent KNOW it. You think Larry Bird didn't talk a ton of shit?

Man, I remember CW's first game, after years of ineptitude, and that team came out vs. Pitt (??) and just laid the wood to them. A complete shocker. What I remember was a little known receiver making plays down field, blocking like crazy, and playing with a cockiness ND hadn't seen in years. And when the Shark pointed to his ND emblem on his shirt, I loved it! All of my ND friends that I was watching it with ate it up too. He basically said, "We're ND, you're not, and we're gonna kick your ass today." Fan-friggin-tastic. We were back (for a minute anyways), and the whole nation knew it. That's how you kick ass. That's what we lacked this year - the emotion and the cockiness and yes, the swagger.

And Golden Tate brings that to the team. He's a talker, as is Blanton (they have BATTLES in practice, one on one, shit-talking the whole way). And of course, as is Jimmy. I gotta admit, the way Jimmy acted on the Hawaii field after ND scored, I told me lady, "Well, the rest of the country's gonna hate him even more now, but I fucking love it!" The hang ten signs, the look he gave the Hawaii sideline after one long score (shaking his head as if to say, "I thought you knew." I ate that shit up!

Now, I'm not talking USC, Miami, classless-going-overboard stuff. I can't stand the crap they do, and I don't think GMoney has gone overboard (OK, maybe once). I'm just saying, have a little attitude, a little fun, a little cockiness. Play like college kids and loosen up and kick some damn ass like you know you can.

Rant over, go ahead and laugh at me for being such a hypocrit!!!

You are no hypocrite my friend. You da man! Congratulations on your victory!

Shhhheeeeiiitttt.

I think this is a bit of a semantic discussion, where choir preaches to choir.

My only point is this: one kid loves math and does all the homework and wins the ribbon for top math student. He decides to wear a red hat to celebrate. Another student does not want to do the work, but wants the ribbon, and notices that the top math student wears a red hat. So he wears one.

Do the work first. Earn it. Bash a motherfucker repeatedly. Then get cocky and celebrate and taunt. But when you are used to winning.... Welll...

There is a difference between absolute mother fucking fire in the heart during a football game, and "swagger."

I think we talking semantics here.

And I hope your girls celebrated like Mofos after the game. Congratulations Bud.

 

[IrishChris209]

great post jonesman