Scarcity of Obama signs in North Penna...

[NeuteredDoomer]

I never understood the argument of if you don't know any illegal immigrants then it's not your problem. Help me understand this please...

Does that argument includes the knowledge of where your tax money goes?

That's easy, because if a tree falls in the forest, and noone is there to hear it, then it doesn't actually make a sound...

I am more concerned with the reality I witness, than the grandiose estimates of unseen events.

This goes back to conversations with others and observations made by some people that I respect. An observation was made by someone somewhere during the past 8 years regarding how "shady" this admin seemed to be. And the comment was made that it seemed every time the admin got "caught" being tricky, some grandiose story would hit the media to deflect the pressure. I don't remember what was going on when the "illegal immigration" bomb went off, but something happened.

And it worked. Meanwhile, the sneaky ones heaved a sigh of relief that the pressure had been deflected.

How's that for an exact answer?

I think we need to stop looking for grandiose blames and answers, and start cleaning our own house. (And with every letter I type, I am fully aware of how little I know...)

But I do personally know of legal citizens who made incredibly bad investments despite my warnings. They wanted what they wanted, and they wanted it NOW. They did not care what it took, or will take to get it. The ends justifies the means to them, no matter what havoc they wreak on anyone.

Just one simple story among 300 mil in this country I guess...

P.S. Nice point Sureal.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Are you refering to Davis in California? He was an idiot. It's a huge failure all around, but how can it not be laid at the feet of W, since he claimed he would secure the borders, catch Bin Laden, etc. Such an epic failure. I can't find any info on how one side is more to blame than the other, besides W's empty promises.

It's not just California (where I used to live, and yes, Davis is an idiot)...but other states AND jurisdictions which label themselves as amnesty zones. If I were the feds, I would cut off any funding until that crap stopped....period.
I'm not against immigrants, but let's control who enters our country. This should NOT be a political issue whatsover. In a perfect world, at least.

 

[FrankMA]

I read your link. Boy oh boy. Is that the best you can do? Something hypothetical is multuplied by something hypothetical and therefore - TRUTH. If that little story truly reflects any kind of truth, remember, it was "legal" citizens who "knowingly" gave out bad loans.

I am clueless, but I still don't buy it. And I am not defending "illegal aliens." I just think the whole "illegal alien" issue reached the forefront to mask other serious problems going on.

-Just a normal citizen's passive observation...

I can hit you with several links-some even have stories of specific, individual cases, of bad mortgage loans to illegals; however, it will accomplish nothing. I will jut give this link to a New York Post column which has been widly posted and widely disscussed on the net. Then lets just agree to disagree.
ILLEGAL ALIENS & THE MORTGAGE MESS - New York Post

Our observations are different.

 

[Sureal]

Ok One of Neuterdom,

I see your point. I had to read it twice but I understand your point. (Need Cliffsnotes) Basically your saying that there is bigger fish to fry. I just got done dumbing myself down by listening to O'Reilly last night and just by watching the topics he uses I can see how flashpoints can mask grander issues...

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I can hit you with several links-some even have stories of specific, individual cases, of bad mortgage loans to illegals; however, it will accomplish nothing. I will jut give this link to a New York Post column which has been widly posted and widely disscussed on the net. Then lets just agree to disagree.
ILLEGAL ALIENS & THE MORTGAGE MESS - New York Post

Our observations are different.

What does it mean to "agree to disagree?" Apparently our observations are a bit different, but I will buy the first 10 rounds when we meet...

Why did you post an article that supports every freegin word I have typed on this thread? Let's look at some of it:

AS panicked politicians prepare to fork over $1 trillion in taxpayer funding to rescue Wall Street, they've fingered regulation, deregulation, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act...both Bushes, greedy banks, greedy borrowers, greedy short-sellers and minority-home-ownership promoters for blame...

But there's one villain that has slipped notice: how illegal immigration- crime-enabling banks... fueled the mortgage crisis....Half of the mortgages to Hispanics are subprime. A quarter of all those subprime loans are in default and foreclosure...Regional reports across the country have decried the subprime meltdown's impact on illegal-immigrant "victims." ... For the last five years, I've reported on the rapidly expanding illegal-alien home-loan racket. The top banks clamoring for their handouts as their profits plummet, led by Wachovia and Bank of America, launched aggressive campaigns to woo illegal-alien homebuyers. The quasi-governmental Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority guaranteed home loans to illegal immigrants......Fraudsters also have engaged in house-flipping rings using illegal aliens as straw buyers. Among many examples the FBI cites: a conspiracy in Las Vegas involving a former Nevada First Residential Mortgage Company branch manager who directed loan officers and processors in the origination of 233 fraudulent Federal Housing Authority loans valued at over $25 million. The defrauders made and submitted false employment and income documentation for borrowers; most were illegal immigrants from Mexico. To date, the FBI reported, "Fifty-eight loans with a total value of $6.2 million have gone into default, with a loss to the Housing and Urban Development Department of over $1.9 million."

... "Considering the size of Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Houston and other large cities throughout the United States known to be inundated with illegal aliens, I don't think the federal government is willing to expose this problem for financial reasons as well as for fear of political repercussions."
The chickens are coming home to roost. Law-abiding taxpayers are going to pay for it."

It almost seems as though you are supporting the rapist and blaming the victim. (Sorry for the harshness...)

Sociopaths should not rule.

For the first time in any election, I like both choices. Still kinda pissed about the Palin choice. What a freegin insult.

(Although she is an incredible lady, she is no Hilary - not that I would have voted for Hilary)

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Ok One of Neuterdom,

I see your point. I had to read it twice but I understand your point. (Need Cliffsnotes) Basically your saying that there is bigger fish to fry. I just got done dumbing myself down by listening to O'Reilly last night and just by watching the topics he uses I can see how flashpoints can mask grander issues...

You da man, my friend! We have to figger it out together.

 

[GoIrish41]

Liberals raise taxes, it's what they do. People who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.
I thought I was just stating the obvious...I guess not.

In the past eight years, I've lost nearly half of my 401K, the value of my house has tanked and I pay twice as much for a gallon of gas, a gallon of milk, and just about everything else I use.

Now I know this isn't a tax issue, but on the bottom line it has the same effect. If anyone can honestly tell me that Obama is going to tax me at a 50% rate on my retirement savings, 30% on my house and $2 a gallon on gas, then you will have opened my eyes. Until then, I would urge everyone to listen to stoney ... people who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. As luck would have it, we only have to look at the last eight years in order to make the right decision.

 

[GoIrish41]

He should not salute of course since he was not in the military.

Plus, he can't raise his hand that high. I already regret typing that.

 

[FrankMA]

What does it mean to "agree to disagree?" Apparently our observations are a bit different, but I will buy the first 10 rounds when we meet...

Why did you post an article that supports every freegin word I have typed on this thread? Let's look at some of it:

AS panicked politicians prepare to fork over $1 trillion in taxpayer funding to rescue Wall Street, they've fingered regulation, deregulation, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the Community Reinvestment Act...both Bushes, greedy banks, greedy borrowers, greedy short-sellers and minority-home-ownership promoters for blame...

But there's one villain that has slipped notice: how illegal immigration- crime-enabling banks... fueled the mortgage crisis....Half of the mortgages to Hispanics are subprime. A quarter of all those subprime loans are in default and foreclosure...Regional reports across the country have decried the subprime meltdown's impact on illegal-immigrant "victims." ... For the last five years, I've reported on the rapidly expanding illegal-alien home-loan racket. The top banks clamoring for their handouts as their profits plummet, led by Wachovia and Bank of America, launched aggressive campaigns to woo illegal-alien homebuyers. The quasi-governmental Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority guaranteed home loans to illegal immigrants......Fraudsters also have engaged in house-flipping rings using illegal aliens as straw buyers. Among many examples the FBI cites: a conspiracy in Las Vegas involving a former Nevada First Residential Mortgage Company branch manager who directed loan officers and processors in the origination of 233 fraudulent Federal Housing Authority loans valued at over $25 million. The defrauders made and submitted false employment and income documentation for borrowers; most were illegal immigrants from Mexico. To date, the FBI reported, "Fifty-eight loans with a total value of $6.2 million have gone into default, with a loss to the Housing and Urban Development Department of over $1.9 million."

... "Considering the size of Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, Houston and other large cities throughout the United States known to be inundated with illegal aliens, I don't think the federal government is willing to expose this problem for financial reasons as well as for fear of political repercussions."
The chickens are coming home to roost. Law-abiding taxpayers are going to pay for it."

It almost seems as though you are supporting the rapist and blaming the victim. (Sorry for the harshness...)

Sociopaths should not rule.

For the first time in any election, I like both choices. Still kinda pissed about the Palin choice. What a freegin insult.

(Although she is an incredible lady, she is no Hilary - not that I would have voted for Hilary)

Hey, I see what you mean. I agree with you more than you think; but, I think both sides are at fault. The scum who were in charge and the so called "victims" who broke the law by being here. It will not cost these "victims" anything. We, the taxpaying, law abiding citizens are the only victims here. We will pay for the deeds of both the scum and the "victims".
What I mean by agreeing to disagree is that we will probable never find total common ground on this so it is probable wise to move on to other topics. Like those 10 rounds ( I will split 5 and 5) and ND football.

 

[IrishfaninLA]

In reading this thread I came across a reply were the pro-life poster had to vote his wallet.
All I can say is, never vote your wallet vote your conscience. The economy always cycles up and down, yes it is bad but it will get better.
Senator Obama is definitely one of the most pro-abortion, not pro-choice, pesidential candidates since Roe v Wade was enacted. If elected Senator Obama has said he will lift the ban on partial birth abortion. BTW, there is no known medical procedure to perform a partial birth abortion to save the mpther's life. It is killing an innocent life....no matter how you try to spin it.
Senetor Obama has also said if elected he wants to give Federal funds to planned parenthood. I know I do not want my tax dollars going to fund abortion.
Before voting....please go to the following site. I hope I linked it correctly
Public Discourse - Little Murders, by Charles J. Chaput

This is a speech from the Archbishop of Denver, he is speaking as a private citizen, not from the pulpit.

 

[Junkhead]

All I can say is, never vote your wallet vote your conscience. The economy always cycles up and down, yes it is bad but it will get better.

It's not that simple. Abortion alone shouldn't decide entire elections. Why are so many pro-lifers also pro-war? Boggles the mind. I honestly can't decide what I think should be done about abortion.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Congress is looking right now at:

1) Govt run healthcare...courtesy of one Teddy Kennedy
2) Getting equity in insurance companies
3) Snatching all your 401k money and throwing into the treasury, then MAYBE giving part of it back with your SS money (if there's some left)

Someone tell me how having the dems in control of the house, senate, and WH is a good thing??? If it does happen, govt is going to become very large.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

It's not that simple. Abortion alone shouldn't decide entire elections. Why are so many pro-lifers also pro-war? Boggles the mind. I honestly can't decide what I think should be done about abortion.

Nobody I know is pro-war, and I have had 3 immediate family members serve our country. The difference is that some feel that war can be just. Like stopping the raping of Kuwait in Gulf War 1, and stopping Saddam from killing his own people, violating 16 UN resolutions, and violation of the cease war treaty at the end of Gulf War 1. It was NOT all about WMD's.....that was simply a political argument.
As far as being pro-life...some feel that it is wrong to kill babies, go figure.
BTW-war is not murder......that's what terrorists and Saddam was doing. In fact, we haven't gone to war for any other reason aside from the defense of another country or it's populace in a LONG time.
It amazes me how people can't see that we are an agent of good in the world, as opposed to the reverse.

 

[Junkhead]

Point taken. The only war I object to (in recent memory) is Iraq 2. It is and was a distraction from Afghanistan and Bin Laden. Not to mention a $400 million a day drain on our economy, and the split families. I don't think it was essential for our safety. As far as abortion, you could debate all day whether it is babies, fetuses, etc. I'm no fan, but having never been in that position, I'm not sure it's up to me to decide what others do.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Iraq 2 was a mistake, no doubt. Especially with Iran, Russia, and others acting up since then........and our economy tanking. No argument there.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

In the past eight years, I've lost nearly half of my 401K, the value of my house has tanked and I pay twice as much for a gallon of gas, a gallon of milk, and just about everything else I use.

Now I know this isn't a tax issue, but on the bottom line it has the same effect. If anyone can honestly tell me that Obama is going to tax me at a 50% rate on my retirement savings, 30% on my house and $2 a gallon on gas, then you will have opened my eyes. Until then, I would urge everyone to listen to stoney ... people who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it. As luck would have it, we only have to look at the last eight years in order to make the right decision.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Plus, he can't raise his hand that high. I already regret typing that.

LOL. (Although he was talking bout Bama, and you are describing Big Mac - or is it 'Royale with cheese?')

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

It's not that simple. Abortion alone shouldn't decide entire elections. Why are so many pro-lifers also pro-war? Boggles the mind. I honestly can't decide what I think should be done about abortion.

Agree totally. Why is that an issue for a presidential election?

 

[Junkhead]

Congress is looking right now at:

1) Govt run healthcare...courtesy of one Teddy Kennedy
2) Getting equity in insurance companies
3) Snatching all your 401k money and throwing into the treasury, then MAYBE giving part of it back with your SS money (if there's some left)

Someone tell me how having the dems in control of the house, senate, and WH is a good thing??? If it does happen, govt is going to become very large.

Healthcare. Unless you are one of the rare people with outstanding health insurance, its a totally worthless system. Nearly 20% of Americans have no health insurance. Anything would be better. Insurance companies. AIG bailout etc. Stupid. 401k money is all disappearing in the stock market. You say having the dems control the house, senate, and wh is bad. Did it bother you when the Republicans held all three for 6 years? After the past 8 years or so, all members of Congress should be canned. Gov't becoming large? It grew quite a bit under the "conservative" Bush administration. I agree with a lot of the true conservative talking points such as low taxes, smaller gov't, etc, but the Republican party has abandoned their roots and sunk to fear tactics and pandering to the evangelicals and uneducated.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Nobody I know is pro-war, and I have had 3 immediate family members serve our country. The difference is that some feel that war can be just...
As far as being pro-life...some feel that it is wrong to kill babies, go figure.
BTW-war is not murderIt amazes me how people can't see that we are an agent of good in the world, as opposed to the reverse.

Are you saying that the U.S. is in fact, BATMAN?

HOLY CONFESSION BATMAN!

Maybe we battle when our lives are threatened for wrong reasons. That is when war is just.

The ladies I know who commited abortion were careless party-goers from good families. Their fathers were freegin wimps. (OK peaches, you can get what you want when you want it...)

You had 3 members of your life that served, I have had 4 in my life that died, one of which took his innocent wife with him.

War is a neccessary evil.

Geez, I need another shot of Seagrams before I wake up in 3 hours to go work.

Best 3 words that help me through a bad time are:

I love you.

 

[Junkhead]

Are you saying that the U.S. is in fact, BATMAN?

HOLY CONFESSION BATMAN!

Maybe we battle when our lives are threatened for wrong reasons. That is when war is just.

The ladies I know who commited abortion were careless party-goers from good families. Their fathers were freegin wimps. (OK peaches, you can get what you want when you want it...)

You had 3 members of your life that served, I have had 4 in my life that died, one of which took his innocent wife with him.

War is a neccessary evil.

Geez, I need another shot of Seagrams before I wake up in 3 hours to go work.

Best 3 words that help me through a bad time are:

I love you.

I don't understand a word you just said.

 

[IrishfaninLA]

As far as abortion, you could debate all day whether it is babies, fetuses, etc. I'm no fan, but having never been in that position, I'm not sure it's up to me to decide what others do.

It's a life plain and simple. Senator Obama has said if elected president the first thing he will do is sign the Freedom of Choice act. This legislation would guarantee a "fundamental right", to an abortion through all nine months of pregenacy.
This a very important issue that cannot be overlooked or brushed aside. The taking of human life is always wrong.
YouTube - fetal development
Since Roe v Wade there have been 40 million abortions. Who knows but out of that number how many Albert Einstiens, Issac Newtons where killed?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I don't understand a word you just said.

O.K.

Let's start with the word "You."

"You" is a noun.

Next lesson will involve "numbers."

 

[Bubba]

It's a life plain and simple. Senator Obama has said if elected president the first thing he will do is sign the Freedom of Choice act. This legislation would guarantee a "fundamental right", to an abortion through all nine months of pregenacy.
This a very important issue that cannot be overlooked or brushed aside. The taking of human life is always wrong.
YouTube - fetal development
Since Roe v Wade there have been 40 million abortions. Who knows but out of that number how many Albert Einstiens, Issac Newtons where killed?

I usually don't chime in on these controversial issues, but here's my .02 cents.....

I don't support abortion through all 9 months, but I am pro-choice. It doesn't mean I am pro-abortion. Like Junkhead I don't think this issue should decide the election.

Using your logic, one could also wonder how many Ted Bundys, Son of Sams and Adolf Hitlers were killed -- wouldn't that be a good thing? There have been 40 million legal abortions as you state, but how many illegal ones would have been performed, putting the mother at risk (of course she is guilty and immoral so who cares right?) if Roe vs. Wade had not been ruled as it was?

How many more unwanted children do we want to suffer through drug addiction, disease, abuse and other horrible conditions? If, as is being suggested, life starts at conception wouldn't they go straight to heaven upon termination? That's the goal right.

We could debate this forever and we still won't agree. But, it would be socially irresponsible to overlook all other issues and decide this election based on 1 issue, whether that issue is abortion, healthcare, the economy....or whatever issue is important to you.

 

[FrankMA]

It's a life plain and simple. Senator Obama has said if elected president the first thing he will do is sign the Freedom of Choice act. This legislation would guarantee a "fundamental right", to an abortion through all nine months of pregenacy.
This a very important issue that cannot be overlooked or brushed aside. The taking of human life is always wrong.
YouTube - fetal development
Since Roe v Wade there have been 40 million abortions. Who knows but out of that number how many Albert Einstiens, Issac Newtons where killed?

Obama has gone beyone supporting abortion. He has supported infanticide by voting 3 times in Illinois legislature to deny liquids or medical attention to living babies after botched abortions. He is for killing babies!
Besides that, the only thing a President could do to stop abortions would be to put Federal judges in who would overturn Roe vs. Wade. This would allow each state and its own voters to decide what they want to do with abortion. That is real choice.

 

[ACamp1900]

This country (and every country) has the right to control its borders. Mexico has laws on their books that make ours look downright lenient. Immigrants come here illegally and demand that they have rights........try that one in ANY other country but ours.
Immigrants and housing? How about the huge expense of housing illegals in our prisons? It's become a huge expense to do so. Of course, many illegals don't pay taxes, but get free healthcare at ER's.

Immigration is a huge issue. The SOLUTION is to stop illegal immigration, and stop letting the democrats rewarding (encouraging) it by handing out drivers licenses and pressuring banks to allow accounts/loans.

My two cents.

yeah my father works for the prison system here in cali and you should see the way we treat the Mexican Consulate... if she asks,(more like demands really) she recieves... it does not matter how frivolous the demand or at what price to the tax payer and the real sick part is our people actually follow her around and treat her as if she were the Queen with her court... no shit

 

[Junkhead]

Obama has gone beyone supporting abortion. He has supported infanticide by voting 3 times in Illinois legislature to deny liquids or medical attention to living babies after botched abortions. He is for killing babies!

Do you have a link to support that claim? Or did Rush tell you that?

 

[FrankMA]

Do you have a link to support that claim? Or did Rush tell you that?

Here you go:

Nonpartisan Analysis: Barack Obama Misrepresented Key Pro-Abortion Vote

 

[Bubba]

Here you go:

Nonpartisan Analysis: Barack Obama Misrepresented Key Pro-Abortion Vote

The title of the article is as misleading as the claim Obama is for killing babies. It's not a nonpartisan article. Each of the reference links brings you to another lifenews.com article, which is obviously pro-life. Obama did vote 3 times as you suggested, but the first 2 bills did not have a neutrality clause that would support Roe vs. Wade which Obama supports. The 3rd one did, if I understand the article correctly. Obviously I don't have inside information to defend his vote, but I'm pretty sure his stance wasn't "hey, lets kill these babies!"

 

[FrankMA]

The title of the article is as misleading as the claim Obama is for killing babies. It's not a nonpartisan article. Each of the reference links brings you to another lifenews.com article, which is obviously pro-life. Obama did vote 3 times as you suggested, but the first 2 bills did not have a neutrality clause that would support Roe vs. Wade which Obama supports. The 3rd one did, if I understand the article correctly. Obviously I don't have inside information to defend his vote, but I'm pretty sure his stance wasn't "hey, lets kill these babies!"

No, His stance was that it is more important to protect Roe vs. Wade than to save any babies lives. It is not a non-partican article-it is pro life. Obama is not. Here is another link.
Nurse says Obama supports infanticide