Charlie has to go at least 8-4 this year. Agreed?

[midwestguy]

Anything less would be unacceptable to me.

What say you?

 

[irishmarine]

thats what im looking at too. maybe 7 wins if bad luck strikes but i am looking at about 8 or 9.

 

[midwestguy]

I think 8 or 9 is very realistic. If he goes 7-5 after last year's debacle, I am getting my pitchfork ready.

 

[irishmarine]

put the pitch fork down. if he does only win 7 then we will have to look at why

 

[SoCalDomer]

this is an impossible issue to agree on. for one thing, if we're being honest we wouldn't want ND to lose any games. but that's not being realistic.

so for me personally, i want to see quality play. if they do that, they should win some games. they may lose some games, but they should be hard-fought, competitive losses.

saying charlie s/be gone if he wins 7 instead of 8 is too narrow of criteria. if all of those losses are hard fought games, i'd be satisfied.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

SoCalDomer: I totally agree with you. If we win the games we are SUPPOSED to win (i.e. - SDSU, Syracuse, et al.) and keep any losses (I hope there aren't any, but realistically speaking, there probably will be) close and competitive, 7 and 5 will be an acceptable turnaround season from 3 and 9. Especially if that gets us into a bowl game and we win that too. I start every year hoping we go 12 - 0. However, this year, I am hoping for some competitiveness out of the team in all 12 games win or lose. Too many times last year it looked like the game was out of reach early in the first half.

 

[midwestguy]

SoCalDomer: I totally agree with you. If we win the games we are SUPPOSED to win (i.e. - SDSU, Syracuse, et al.) and keep any losses (I hope there aren't any, but realistically speaking, there probably will be) close and competitive, 7 and 5 will be an acceptable turnaround season from 3 and 9. Especially if that gets us into a bowl game and we win that too. I start every year hoping we go 12 - 0. However, this year, I am hoping for some competitiveness out of the team in all 12 games win or lose. Too many times last year it looked like the game was out of reach early in the first half.

I disagree. 7 & 5 against this schedule with our talent is not acceptable. 3 & 9 last year has nothing to do with it in my opinion, because they should not have been 3 & 9 last year.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

midwestguy:

Then what would you deem as acceptable this year? And they never SHOULD have a losing schedule, but the fact of the matter remains they WERE 3-9 last year. You don't just automatically go from a 3-9 team to 9-3 or 10-2 or whatever based on hypotheticals and pre-season schedule strength. You say "this schedule", but how do you know how the Tar Heels are going to look? Or BC? Or Michigan, for that matter? Don't misunderstand my post: I am not going to celebrate a 7 and 5 season, but I am also not going to call for Coach Weis' job as long as the boys are playing with some competitiveness and intensity.

 

[midwestguy]

They need to win 8 games for me. That isn't asking very much considering their schedule. As to your point, I have them losing to UNC, USC, and Pitt as likely. The other loss can go to either Purdue, Michigan State, or Michigan.

As to last year, you are correct they were 3-9. However, with a better coaching job that team should have been 6-6 at an absolute minimum. So, am I being tough on Charlie this year, you bet I am. He needs to win 8 games in my opinion.

Surely, if he went 5-7, you might be ready for him to exit. Everyone has a number. Mine is 8.

 

[tko]

i'm bullish, 9+ wins this year. i saw some good things at the end of last year and the hiring of tenuta was a great move. i look for a renewed nastiness this year, hopefully w/o the stupid penalties. i understand people think it's tough to all of a sudden bounce back from 3-9 but i think it happens. everyone in PA(psu clowns) thinks i'm crazy but i'm standing my ground. GO IRISH!

 

[daytonirish]

Well I doubt that Charlie will be fired if the Irish go 5-7, 6-6, or 7-5. I do think they win at least 8 games propably more. I like Charlie as the HC and don't see him leaving for awhile.

 

[nd1988]

I'm predicting the Irish to be much improved from last year. I'm really impressed by the way Clausen played as a Freshman. Considering how horrible the offensive line was...... We will see no improvement if the O-line doesn't get their butts off the ground.. ND may have the talent at the playmaker positions but we'll never see that talent if the others "O-line" don't do anything about it. I want the Irish to go 12-0 and a BCS win. I'm not saying they will but it would be nice. If they make it to a bowl game and win I'll be very impressed. If not, they will need to get rid of Latina.. Thats my opinion..

 

[IrishRamMan10]

i still say we truly dont know anything til SDSU rolls into town

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

They need to win 8 games for me. That isn't asking very much considering their schedule. As to your point, I have them losing to UNC, USC, and Pitt as likely. The other loss can go to either Purdue, Michigan State, or Michigan.

As to last year, you are correct they were 3-9. However, with a better coaching job that team should have been 6-6 at an absolute minimum. So, am I being tough on Charlie this year, you bet I am. He needs to win 8 games in my opinion.

Surely, if he went 5-7, you might be ready for him to exit. Everyone has a number. Mine is 8.

I totally respect your opinion. However, purely for the sake of a spirited argument, my number does not lie solely with the number of wins or losses, but with the quality of play during those wins and losses. For instance, in the SC game in 05, I was upset they lost, but you can't fault anyone on the team from the coaches on down for that "L". They played their guts out and got beat. On the other hand, last year they beat a UCLA team after a very sluggish effort by many with the exception of Mo Crum and a few others. Was I happy for a win (especially the first of the season)? Absolutely. Did it make me feel good about the teams chances the rest of the season? No way.

This season, if they play to the best of their abilities week in and week out, and they finish 6 and 6, but the losses are close (less than a touchdown or so) and the wins are decisive, I am going to feel good about our chances for next season and beyond. I won't be happy with a 6 and 6 team, but if the intensity and competitiveness are brought up another ten or twenty notches, I think it will set us up for success in years to come.

Again, please don't get me wrong, I am hoping the Irish are undefeated when the come out here to So Cal Thanksgiving weekend. I have probably wrongly said many Hail Marys for an ND undefeated season. That is a tall order for any team to come out and run the table, but I am a Domer through and through and I will always believe this team can win it all every year. But that is why I love college football so much - because anything can happen. All the "experts" and analysts and Mark Mays of the world can spout off all the stats, figures,and conjectures they want in the preseason, but the one guarantee that will come true for certain is there will be some surprises this season. We don't know what they will be. Maybe it will be the #2 Fighting Irish coming to LA undefeated to face the #1 Trojans and upsetting them in Prime Time! I can dream, can't I?

 

[midwestguy]

Well I doubt that Charlie will be fired if the Irish go 5-7, 6-6, or 7-5. I do think they win at least 8 games propably more. I like Charlie as the HC and don't see him leaving for awhile.

If he goes 5-7, how do they not fire him?

 

[daytonirish]

If he goes 5-7, how do they not fire him?

By letting him coach another season. It seems you want Charlie gone. So my question to you is who do want as the Notre Dame Head Coach ?

 

[NDsuperfan09]

Our record hinges on the OL play. The minimum amount of games I see this team winning barring disaster (injury, suspension, transfer) is 5. The maximum I see is 10. I'm not at all concerned about our offensive skill positions. Clausen, Aldridge, Hughes, Allen, Gray, Kamara, Tate, West, Floyd, Walker, Goodman, Ragone, Yeatman, Rudolph, I think you get the picture, can stack up with any grouping of frosh/soph talent anywhere offensively. The OL is a different story. I think they have improved but by how much will determine how many wins we get. If they have improved marginally I see 6-8 wins for us with a few close losses. If they have taken a quantum leap 9-10 wins is a good possibility. San Diego State, Navy, Stanford, Syracuse, and Purdue should be wins no matter what. Pittsburgh, Washington, UNC, Michigan are all games we have more or comparable talent with our opponent I believe we should only lose 1 of those games, at the worst split them. Boston College always gives us fits so i'm not going to make a judgement call on that. Michigan State is a winnable game. USC is probably not winnable at this juncture. I think anything less than 7 wins and Charlie needs to go (losing the Washington game also would be a disaster). Right now I'm saying 8-4. We lose to MSU, UNC, BC, and USC. Beat SDSU, Navy, Stanford, Syracuse, Purdue, Michigan, Pitt, and Washington. We also must win a bowl game this year. That would give Charlie a little cooling on his seat if he can win a bowl game.

 

[kmoose]

They need to win 8 games for me. That isn't asking very much considering their schedule. As to your point, I have them losing to UNC, USC, and Pitt as likely. The other loss can go to either Purdue, Michigan State, or Michigan.

As to last year, you are correct they were 3-9. However, with a better coaching job that team should have been 6-6 at an absolute minimum. So, am I being tough on Charlie this year, you bet I am. He needs to win 8 games in my opinion.

Surely, if he went 5-7, you might be ready for him to exit. Everyone has a number. Mine is 8.

So, if the Irish go 7-5, and make HUGE strides this year, you would call for the head of one of, if not THE best recruiter ever to walk the sidelines at ND? You wouldn't be willing to give Charlie a chance to give Tenuta and Haywood one more year, to get their respective roles figured out?

Not everyone has a number. And to put a number on it, before you even SEE the quality of the competition they are going to face, is foolhardy at best.

 

[NDsuperfan09]

Those calling us to loe against Pitt are ill informed at this point. They too lost to Navy last season and we probably have more all-around talent on the offensive side of the ball and the talent on defense is equal. Plus Weis > Wannstache

 

[midwestguy]

So, if the Irish go 7-5, and make HUGE strides this year, you would call for the head of one of, if not THE best recruiter ever to walk the sidelines at ND?

For real? 7-5 would not be making HUGE strides. An AVERAGE NCAA Div. 1 Head Coach given ND's team last year would have won 6 games at a minimum last year. I believe that. Coach Weis was horrid last year. However, if he wins 8 games this year, I am willing to give him more chances. If he doesn't, I say we cut our losses. Honestly, recruiting means NOTHING to me unless it turns into wins on the football field. Recruiting class rankings are as worthless as preseason polls until they are verified on Saturdays.

As to those above who say who do we hire? Are you kidding? I can name about 30 eligible candidates should charlie win less than 7 games this year.

 

[NDsuperfan09]

For real? 7-5 would not be making HUGE strides. An AVERAGE NCAA Div. 1 Head Coach given ND's team last year would have won 6 games at a minimum last year. I believe that. Coach Weis was horrid last year. However, if he wins 8 games this year, I am willing to give him more chances. If he doesn't, I say we cut our losses. Honestly, recruiting means NOTHING to me unless it turns into wins on the football field. Recruiting class rankings are as worthless as preseason polls until they are verified on Saturdays.

As to those above who say who do we hire? Are you kidding? I can name about 30 eligible candidates should charlie win less than 7 games this year.

So an average D1 coach would have turned that O-Line from as bad as it gets to good in a month or so? Give me a break.

 

[midwestguy]

So an average D1 coach would have turned that O-Line from as bad as it gets to good in a month or so? Give me a break.

He would have coached them better and he would have known what he had prior to the Ga Tech game. I GUARANTEE you that Rutgers coach if given ND's team would not have been 3-9. They would probably have been 8-4.

 

[NDsuperfan09]

He would have coached them better and he would have known what he had prior to the Ga Tech game. I GUARANTEE you that Rutgers coach if given ND's team would not have been 3-9. They would probably have been 8-4.

Can we ban this troll? Schiano wouldn't have done any better than Weis last year. He had one good year, thats it.

 

[midwestguy]

Can we ban this troll? Schiano wouldn't have done any better than Weis last year. He had one good year, thats it.

I am hardly a troll. Schiano will probably get the Penn State job when Joe Pa goes away. Regardless, he would not have allowed that team to get away from him like Weis did last year.

If Weis has it in him to win NCs, he needs to win 8 this year - in my opinion.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Coach Weis was horrid last year. However, if he wins 8 games this year, I am willing to give him more chances. If he doesn't, I say we cut our losses.

True. But you seem to forget he also won more than 8 games in his first two seasons.

Honestly, recruiting means NOTHING to me unless it turns into wins on the football field. Recruiting class rankings are as worthless as preseason polls until they are verified on Saturdays.

IF Weis doesn't turn things around, then your point here is valid. But, recruiting does mean something; it means he cares about ND and is putting in the time. The last coach's tenure got cut short (IMO) because the administration saw he was not putting in the time to turn things around. He wouldn't make any changes on the coaching staff. His recruiting quality and quantity took a nose dive. None of that is true of Weis. He works hard, puts in the time, gets results in recruiting, and made important coaching changes (adding Brown, adding tenuta, promoting Haywood.)

As to those above who say who do we hire? Are you kidding? I can name about 30 eligible candidates should charlie win less than 7 games this year.

Please do. i want 30 names.

It's not a matter of finding someone, it's a matter of finding THE one. Not every coach can coach at ND. This University is different than most schools, and expects its coaches to conform to it, not the other way around.

Prospective coaches would look at ND's history and see: Next to last coach got canned 3-years into his tenure with time left on his K; last coach (who was alumnus) got canned 4-years into his tenure, with 6 years left on his K. Very few good candidates will want to take over that kind of history.

If you don't see that Weis understands ND, he gets recruiting at ND (and gets results), and had success in his first two years, I don't know what more anyone can say to you. You can still feel that way, though.

 

[Jason Pham]

...

 

[SoCalDomer]

Can we ban this troll?

No. He's free to have differing opinions as long as he's not starting flame wars. A troll is someone who joins just to be annoying and antagonize others.

 

[midwestguy]

True. But you seem to forget he also won more than 8 games in his first two seasons.



IF Weis doesn't turn things around, then your point here is valid. But, recruiting does mean something; it means he cares about ND and is putting in the time. The last coach's tenure got cut short (IMO) because the administration saw he was not putting in the time to turn things around. He wouldn't make any changes on the coaching staff. His recruiting quality and quantity took a nose dive. None of that is true of Weis. He works hard, puts in the time, gets results in recruiting, and made important coaching changes (adding Brown, adding tenuta, promoting Haywood.)



Please do. i want 30 names.

It's not a matter of finding someone, it's a matter of finding THE one. Not every coach can coach at ND. This University is different than most schools, and expects its coaches to conform to it, not the other way around.

Prospective coaches would look at ND's history and see: Next to last coach got canned 3-years into his tenure with time left on his K; last coach (who was alumnus) got canned 4-years into his tenure, with 6 years left on his K. Very few good candidates will want to take over that kind of history.

If you don't see that Weis understands ND, he gets recruiting at ND (and gets results), and had success in his first two years, I don't know what more anyone can say to you. You can still feel that way, though.

To be fair, this is a reasonable response.

However, Weis has won NO bowl games in 3 years. He did well his first 2 years with Ty's recruits, but then gave us the worst season I have ever seen ND give us.

So, in my eyes he needs to bounce back. 8 wins does that for me, 7 doesn't. Is that a brightline rule? Yes, it is. You may have a different line - fair enough.

However, regardless of how tough the ND job might be, believe me, people will want it. Just because that chickencrap at Florida passed on it, doesn't mean that no one wants the job should Weis falter.

There will be a line and many may be better than Weis. I'll deal with that should the time come. However, if he wins 8, I'll be back on the Charlie train for '09.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Just because that chickencrap at Florida passed on it, doesn't mean that no one wants the job should Weis falter.

the more i read, the more i think he was not offered it, but obviously i can't confirm that. and i think most of us are glad he's not the one they hired.

and that's fine with you wanting 8. that's why i said in my very first response this is an issue very few people can agree on.

 

[Jason Pham]

Hyperboles and hypotheticals aside, I don't think he's trolling, just being a little enthusiastic, if you will.

Some folks are adamant about wins being wins and losses being losses and it's a legitimate point of view in many aspects, though one, it seems, few of us share.

It's been pointed out already that should the Irish go 8-4, we will be among the top turnaround teams in NCAA record. I cannot recall the exact numbers connected with this so if someone knows which article I am talking about, I would be glad to be affirmed or corrected.

Furthermore, I think it's entirely premature to, at this point, make predictions on where our team stands. We saw very little out of our team last year as a result of poor coaching and poor team chemistry in addition to a lopsided schedule and we won't get an honest look at what we will be in 2008 until maybe the first couple of quarters of the SDSU game.

One way to look at it is that though we return an impressive number of starters with a decent amount of playing time, they have yet to display their talent due to those varying circumstances. So despite their experience, they are rather fresh and have yet to learn to really succeed at the collegiate level. Because of this, I expect the same obstacles faced by rebuilding teams to turn up this year, though not nearly to the degree of last season. 8-4 is plenty realistic, but surely, a team rebuilding ought not to be expected to reach it at minimum.