NDOM
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Good post.
Good post.
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rattfink
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The program's goal is not to play a tough schedule. The program's goal is to win titles. I would not want the program's scheduling goal to achieve a SOS in the 50's but having a top 10 SOS is also not the answer to getting into title games. LSU played in the ever tough SEC and won the title and still didn't have a SOS in the top 10.
I also don't think White gets enough credit for putting more neutral site games on the schedule. This is a scheduling move that truly harkens back to Irish teams of yore.
GoshenGipper
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If you want to win a National Championship in today's CFB world ND needs to reevaluate the way they schedule. Should they play all cupcakes? No, but that doesn't mean they should go out of their way to try to create a schedule that no one could make it through. Besides ND played plenty of cupcakes in previous eras. If you'll remember Rockne even skipped one game against Carnegie Tech, or something like that because it was considered such a gimme, so he could go scout Navy, who was the following weeks apponent. BTW, ND ended up losing that game.
You know when the talk about "updating" our perspective on scheduling started in earnest? Oddly enough, the answer is the same as: You know when Lou left and the future color man for ESPN got the job? Davie, White and Willingham have one thing in common. MEDIOCRE expectations for the football program. You aim low, and you get there. The '88 team beat the #2, #3 and #4 ranked teams in the country. They beat the best of the Big Ten, PAC Ten, AND the Big East. They Beat Michigan, Miami AND USC. It is simply short sighted and small minded to be talking about "re-evaluating" That's the noise second stringers make. Go Irish!
phork
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There is a reason certain programs and pro teams hit the cellar constantly. And that is the simple culture of losing. Once you hit that, its hard to escape. There are several reasons for it. Bad coaching (I don't think is the case here, now that Charlie isn't call the plays), bad personel (again this is all Charliers recruits this year) or just a simple black cloud that hangs on the franchise (RE: Detroit & Oakland. With Millen and Davis seemingly in charge of programs spinning their wheels. Teams like Temple, Rutgers etc.
Let me tell you a story from the waaayback machine, not as far back as some of you old foagies, but still a way back. Back in my Highschool days, we were a new Highschool, I was in the first class. In Grade10 we fielded a Junior Football program (Our football was divided in Jr and Sr, 9, 10 & 11 was Jr, 11 and up was Sr.)
We absolutely sucked. The following year they asked us if we wanted to make a Sr ball team. All of us said yes (I think for fear of being called pussies for the most part), and we all moved up to the Sr. division. That first year we lost every game as well, except the last one. And let me tell you, once we tasted that sweet victory something changed. The next year we lost 1 game in the regular season and won the championship. The year after, we won every game and the championship. Most of us graduated that year, but the team still went to the championship.
IMO a softer schedule in the next few years will do wonders for this team, after that once ND gets rolling again, I say bring all comers.
Let me tell you a story from the waaayback machine, not as far back as some of you old foagies, but still a way back. Back in my Highschool days, we were a new Highschool, I was in the first class. In Grade10 we fielded a Junior Football program (Our football was divided in Jr and Sr, 9, 10 & 11 was Jr, 11 and up was Sr.)
We absolutely sucked. The following year they asked us if we wanted to make a Sr ball team. All of us said yes (I think for fear of being called pussies for the most part), and we all moved up to the Sr. division. That first year we lost every game as well, except the last one. And let me tell you, once we tasted that sweet victory something changed. The next year we lost 1 game in the regular season and won the championship. The year after, we won every game and the championship. Most of us graduated that year, but the team still went to the championship.
IMO a softer schedule in the next few years will do wonders for this team, after that once ND gets rolling again, I say bring all comers.
GoshenGipper
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So you don't think CFB has drastically changed in last 20 years?
I know recruiting has and that has a lot to do with it.
Perhaps existing TV contracts are the reason why we are playing our "home" games against Wash St in San Antonio and now Baylor in New Orleans.
Baylor-Notre Dame football game moved to Louisiana Superdome | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | SportsDay: Colleges: Baylor
Future Conn games do not have to be moved as far since they are our road games.
Baylor-Notre Dame football game moved to Louisiana Superdome | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | SportsDay: Colleges: Baylor
Future Conn games do not have to be moved as far since they are our road games.
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rattfink
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What a load of crap. Just a bunch of network dorks having a pissing match.
goldandblue
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I've been thinking about this whole schedule issue again. I can't help it but I'm not for the cupcake schedule. I already hear enough shit from SEC fans saying that we don't play anyone now but up until this point in time I've always been able to direct them to ESPN to look at the S.O.S's. Notre dame usually being very high up there.
I am sick that we have not had a N.C. in 20 years so maybe lightning up the schedule is the answer. I just don't want the Irish to lighten it too much. If Notre Dame can keep there schedule strength in the top 25 I think that would good enough.
This topic died out but after seeing that we are trying to fill our schedule with easier teams I wanted to see what you guys thought about it.
I am sick that we have not had a N.C. in 20 years so maybe lightning up the schedule is the answer. I just don't want the Irish to lighten it too much. If Notre Dame can keep there schedule strength in the top 25 I think that would good enough.
This topic died out but after seeing that we are trying to fill our schedule with easier teams I wanted to see what you guys thought about it.
irish4ever
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I agree w/ you. I would like the Irish to continue the Army and Navy ties. Along w/ the Big Ten schools (PU, scUM, MSU) and USC. Spinkle in another traditionally tough opponent, then fill in w/ mediocre teams. Last year's schedule is too tough year-in and year-out in today's BCS set-up.
OCIrish
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I know I'm in the minority, but I can't help but think about tOSU last year. They had a really easy schedule last year, then got their asses handed to them in the N.C game. I don't for a second like adding any BE team to our schedule. I know we have an agreement with them, but, c'mon. Put WVU, Pitt( although under Pornstache, they'll never be anything but mediocre), and South Florida, on the schedule. If we want to play a team from the East, BC should be the team. It's high time we put those upstarts where they belong. As for Baylor, UCONN, Syracuse, Washington St., I don't really care to watch any of those games. Sorry, they just aren't interesting to me. If this is the best that Mr. White can do, maybe he should be looking for employment elsewhere. He's a piss poor excuse of an AD, IMO.
The UConn series has been approved for 6 yrs v. the original 10 and in sites off campus. General Assembly Supports UConn vs. Notre Dame Negotiations -- Courant.com This arrangement upset many Husky fans who did not want to play their home games in NJ, NY or Boston. Current poll results are available if you vote Fans React To UConn-Notre Dame Decision - Sports News Story - WFSB Hartford
Meanwhile, Rutgers has refused a similar type of contract with ND ESPN - Rutgers-Notre Dame canceled over 'home' stadium terms - College Football
One local reaction Rutgers and Notre Dame: good call - NJVoices: Kathleen O'Brien
Meanwhile, Rutgers has refused a similar type of contract with ND ESPN - Rutgers-Notre Dame canceled over 'home' stadium terms - College Football
One local reaction Rutgers and Notre Dame: good call - NJVoices: Kathleen O'Brien
Does UCONN and Rutgers not know their roll. We are Notre Dame, more people watch us every week than they get in an entire year. They might be up and coming but we are the dynasty of fans. You want your name out there you play us on our terms. When you become USC, Michigan, UT, etc. then you can negotiate until then you get what we are nice enough to give you.
irishmarine
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i think with us playing usc and michigan and penn state every year who are storied programs with a winning history that is just as much competition as most other confrences. barring the sec. but the pack ten? the acc? the WAC? come on, any of the other top teams in the country dont play 5-7 top teams why should we. build the team and its confidence. then when we have rebuilt our structure of recruiting and players then take another step. last year charlie took a bunch of virgins into a whore house and they all just got fucked!
irishmarine
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and excelent point from kaplan, we are who they want to play to get more exposure. so more people see thier program. fuck that. beggers cant be choosers.
Two forces here - increased ND ticket demand and demand for playing top tier teams, eg. Mich, PSU, USC, SEC etc, who will demand a true home & home. How many PSU away seats were available last year - 2,000 to ND fans? We'll watch those types of games on TV. Do you want to "dumb down" the schedule with large venue games that can increase ticket availability on east coast cities, etc or do you want to continue to have a small chance of tickets through the ticket lottery?
When I voted, the results were 19% in favor of the schedule Conn legislators approved and 81% against. UConn may stand to earn a lot more money through a game at E. Rutherford or Boston but the 50
yd seat of a UConn season ticket holder may be a lot less close.
Many of the top tier programs also may not want to schedule ND in the middle of their conference schedule. ND's current schedule as a result is too imbalanced at the beginning of the year, and has little room to adjust due to playing traditional Big Ten rivals.
When I voted, the results were 19% in favor of the schedule Conn legislators approved and 81% against. UConn may stand to earn a lot more money through a game at E. Rutherford or Boston but the 50
yd seat of a UConn season ticket holder may be a lot less close.
Many of the top tier programs also may not want to schedule ND in the middle of their conference schedule. ND's current schedule as a result is too imbalanced at the beginning of the year, and has little room to adjust due to playing traditional Big Ten rivals.
Shamrock44
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There have been some really good points from both sides here. I am not in favor of playing the hardest schedule. Someone posted earlier, "can you name 5 teams off the 88 schedule?" That is a good point. Nobody remembers a National Champion's schedule, unless it utterly ridiculous (Ohio St. last year, had they one.) However, it needs to be a respectable schedule. In my opinion, we don't need to play any more service academies except Navy, and only teams from the major BCS conferences. Now I'm not saying to schedule the elite teams of those conferences (LSU, Georgia, Texas, ect.) ,but we need to be scheduling teams in them. I am also in favor of trying to get real home and home series in recruiting hot beds like Florida, Texas, and Georgia. Why not try to schedule long term deals with say..........Florida St, Texas A&M, and Ga. Tech. All are middle tier BCS programs that ND has some storied history with. Anybody agree?
irishmarine
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i can see that point. to get more exposure down there would be great no matter who we played. something about that area is just a hotbed of talent.
Another Big East school moves in to replace Rutgers? Kevin White wants future East coast games due to large fan base (and Big East commitment?)South Bend Tribune: Schedule drama for ND
Master Guns
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I have always wonder why the Irish do not play Kentucky, especially in recent years as the Cats seem to be on the rise in the SEC. It could be another line of border-state scuffles that draw pretty good attention.
Master Guns
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Why not play scUM at Soldiers Field instead of Army. That would be huge!
LOVEMYIRISH
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It would be sweet if it was WVU. My guess is that it was Syracuse or USF. Pitt is already on the schedule. It could be Louisville or Cincy though.
Cincy and USF would want it the most so they get a big time match up which would help their recruiting too.
goldandblue
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I'm thinking USF too but not sure. May very well be WVU.
T
the_dango_ate_your_baby
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I wouldn't mind seeing Cincy as one of our Big East games for a few years. That program is getting better each year and I think it would be a fun series to watch.
Echo Insanity
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the way i look at it, we are carrying on too many quasi-rivalries with schools such as stanford, michigan state, and purdue. i have nothing against scheduling any of these schools, but playing all three of them every year makes for a boring and dogmatic schedule. to me it gets old hearing how we are "rivals" with a half dozen teams. this is one of the things that annoys me about the SEC, they hype up almost every conference game to be some sort of historic rivalry game. it cheapens what the concept of a rivalry should be. i would like to see USC, Michigan, Navy being the only staples on our schedule. after these three, just mix it up every year. anyway, just my thoughts.
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Yeah, they definitly are on the rise.
LOVEMYIRISH
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MSU is definitely a rival...as is Purdue...but I can see mixing it up a bit.
MSU is FAR more of a Rival than scUM. We have far more history with the Spartans than we do with the Wolverines.