2024-2025 Notre Dame Women's Basketball

[Chicago Domer]

Most of this is not worth sweating. Women's NCAA is almost always Chalk until the final 8. Then you just have to beat the best anyway.

Although ND has to play #10 LSU in the sweet
16. The way we’ve played that will be tough to win.

 

[ozzman]

#3 seed?! I know they limped to the finish line, but that's disrespectful. Hopefully the week off helps them regroup and come out angry.

The Texas draw will be tough if they make it that far.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I can see the number three seed, given the bad optics of our late tumble.

With any luck, that shouldn't have made much difference #2 vs #3, since you have to play the other anyway.

BUT we DID have bad luck. The number two in our region is TCU. They will be a problem if we get there.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

But we avoided the other #2’s…UConn, Duke and NC State. Plus we’ve got some revenge factor hopefully motivating us vs TCU.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Conference collision pushed us away from Duke and NCState, and I'm happy for that.

High rating kept away from UCONN (they almost surely were #5 total, and we probably #6 on overall record.)

So we were stuck with TCU. They are really hot just now however (and we know we can beat the others.)

No 2 vs 3 should be easy though ... and they are not. We lose to all of them if we don't fix the defense.

 

[irishrb]

I don't mind the seed, as I was glad to see them away from South Carolina and Uconn. I'll say this.....They came out for the ACC tourney with "Doubt Us" shirts on. I thought maybe they were going to come out and play with an edge...They didn't. Based on a 3 seed, I would say they are absolutely publicly doubted. They either choose to come together and play with that edge to make a run...or they continue to play like they were and possibly lose to Michigan, which will not be a pushover game.

 

[BabyIrish]

It makes sense to me that we are a 3 seed. We’ve been under valued by the committee all year. Most of the good wins we have are at home. Our only away wins are USC and UNC. In tournament settings we are 1-3.

But at the end of the day we are talented enough to beat anybody. So for us it doesn’t really matter what our seed is. We have to play better. And I’m hoping the rest will do wonders for Hannah and get her back to the POTY status she played at through January.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Maddy Westbeld posted something a few days ago. Said: It's on me.
Then expanded the comment to include all the veterans.

If the comment was expanded to just her and Olivia Miles, that would be about right.
Maybe add the coaching staff for poor offensive adjustments.

If we get past round one (likely), then it's (likely) Michigan. We'll need Liatu full out boarding.
Those youngsters are good --- and highly energetic. Watch out, Irish!

If we make it to TCU, Soni will be exhausted chasing Van Lith all evening,
but if anyone can hold her down, it's Soni. Cass will need to help.

If Hannah isn't back to Harassing Menace Hannah, it's too long a road.

 

[Old Man Mike]

All-American team came out. Hannah on first team, as deserved.

Olivia on second team, as not deserved. Soni nowhere mentioned.

The latter again points to how stupidly biased basketball is to offensive flash. (vs total game value.)

Miles scores 16 ppg and gets 5.9 rebounds and 5.8 assists--- very good by all measures.
Citron gets 13.8 ppg and 5.3 rebounds and 2.8 assists--- in the ballpark, but definitely less.
Looking at that there is plenty of reason to pick Olivia. Some of that discrepancy comes because Ivey's offense shoves Soni away and Olivia rarely passes her way, but that's "life."

So, done deal, right? But what does the actual Game look like? It shows one player assigned to the opponent's best non-center. The result of that assignment is typically that opposing player getting about ten points less than her average and being disrupted, PLUS the whole offense boggled a bit trying to find another way to play.

And the other player? Matador lackadaisical defense allowing play by play of give-up scoring giving even weak players many points more than their usual. BUT IT'S NOT EASILY QUANTIFIABLE. I'm going to bet that Olivia's give-up plays (serious negatives) vs Soni's reduction of opposing performance (serious positives) WAY overwhelms the 2+ ppg difference in their scoring, and even the added 6 points due to extra assists (even without calculating in the "opportunity advantage" in assists that Olivia has because of scheme.)

There's no way to "cure" this bias. Shutdown defensive and everyplay effort players will never be rewarded. Every once in a Blue Moon you find an NBA player who not only gets a paycheck but is recognized for actual success value (a rare example of that was Big Ben Wallace; and also an ex-Florida center who played next to Al Horford, I think, and played years at Chicago). You have to score. You can't win by just defense. But Soni scores nearly 14ppg not zero.

 

[Pete]

All-American team came out. Hannah on first team, as deserved.

Olivia on second team, as not deserved. Soni nowhere mentioned.

The latter again points to how stupidly biased basketball is to offensive flash. (vs total game value.)

Miles scores 16 ppg and gets 5.9 rebounds and 5.8 assists--- very good by all measures.
Citron gets 13.8 ppg and 5.3 rebounds and 2.8 assists--- in the ballpark, but definitely less.
Looking at that there is plenty of reason to pick Olivia. Some of that discrepancy comes because Ivey's offense shoves Soni away and Olivia rarely passes her way, but that's "life."

So, done deal, right? But what does the actual Game look like? It shows one player assigned to the opponent's best non-center. The result of that assignment is typically that opposing player getting about ten points less than her average and being disrupted, PLUS the whole offense boggled a bit trying to find another way to play.

And the other player? Matador lackadaisical defense allowing play by play of give-up scoring giving even weak players many points more than their usual. BUT IT'S NOT EASILY QUANTIFIABLE. I'm going to bet that Olivia's give-up plays (serious negatives) vs Soni's reduction of opposing performance (serious positives) WAY overwhelms the 2+ ppg difference in their scoring, and even the added 6 points due to extra assists (even without calculating in the "opportunity advantage" in assists that Olivia has because of scheme.)

There's no way to "cure" this bias. Shutdown defensive and everyplay effort players will never be rewarded. Every once in a Blue Moon you find an NBA player who not only gets a paycheck but is recognized for actual success value (a rare example of that was Big Ben Wallace; and also an ex-Florida center who played next to Al Horford, I think, and played years at Chicago). You have to score. You can't win by just defense. But Soni scores nearly 14ppg not zero.

Joakim Noah?

 

[Old Man Mike]

yes

 

[Old Man Mike]

I know not a high priority, but our to-be-next opponents are about to play in the NCAA, and our girls follow at about 2pm.

Both games at our place. Michigan is in first game with three really good frosh (one with my family name oddly enough.)

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

Hopefully Miles ankle isn’t too bad. Unfortunately they probably need her to go Sunday if possible. Michigan was impressive scoring. It will be a battle.

 

[BuaConstrictor]

Hopefully Miles ankle isn’t too bad. Unfortunately they probably need her to go Sunday if possible. Michigan was impressive scoring. It will be a battle.

She'll be ready to go Sunday.

 

[BabyIrish]

Didn’t get to watch the game so my opinion isn’t fully informed. But based on the highlights for the first half, it looked like the passing was better and intentional. Almost to a fault. I hope this continues, because that’s the path to the championship. Beat Michigan

 

[Old Man Mike]

The main change to the character of the team was their wholesale dedication to moving their butts on both ends of the floor. Of course defensively was most significant. Two of the commentators specifically cited that Miles had apparently gotten a message, and was bending her knees, getting into defensive position, actually fighting through screens. The studio commentator Andraea Carter (who is one of the few who actually "sees" basketball) was raving about the change in Miles defensively. Westbeld was a case of this also, and seemed to WANT to work defensively in the paint --- working physically to try to front posts, for instance. Maybe FINALLY Ivey chewed their asses out, embarrassed them with film, or even threatened them with benching. I of course know none of that, just that the opening half was like watching a different team. The rest of the girls don't need any chewing out, but it was cheering to see how it lifted their play too, now that everyone was trying to play basketball both ends. Loafing or ditz-headedness becomes a general cancer.

The offense looked more dynamic in that more mobility seemed built in. Maybe that's why Soni went off earlier than usual. Also, both Cass and Karlen looked energized too --- probably feeling more involved. On a speculative and different issue, Liatu hasn't looked like herself to me for several games --- I'm ignorant, but the only thing that makes sense to me is that something significant is bothering her. I don't see the wading into the physical fray and leaping over people, and I see quicker substitution . If we're going to win vs the bigs, Liatu has to be first half of season Liatu.

 

[BabyIrish]

To add to the assist comment:
In our three losses in February and March we had 13, 14, and 10 assists respectively. Which is under our margin as a team at about 17. Yesterday we had 26 assists. We’ll be hard to beat if we can get 20+assists a game.

I saw the comment on Koval was deleted. It looks like scoring wise she had a tough game on 2-8 shooting. But she also provided 3 assists, 4 blocks and 3 steals. I imagine her game was not as horrendous as was being stated by a poster.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Koval had a typical game for her: She worked hard at all times, looked clumsy some of it, provided some force in the paint ---> so, no, none of us should be laying down heavy crap on her. For her: typical worthwhile time from the bench.

Koval is a very big young woman who has some foot placement and balance problems. She should start each day with the boring but basic "Mikan exercises", practice boring baby hook pivoting with a grad assistant dedicated to her (and a walk-on bumping her), and let her head slow down into the game.

She is capable of becoming a mini-Zach Edey type project (She is VERY "long" for the women's game and can develop into a rim protector and a hard-to-move force if we patiently stick with her, and she sticks with herself.)

 

[Old Man Mike]

By the way, on what I hope is a friendly note: U of M star freshman point guard, Syla Swords, and our own Cass Prosper were Canadian Olympic buddies. Cass probably won't be assigned to her when Soni's out, but who knows?

 

[fightingirish26]

Don't see miles on the floor for warmups

Update: she came out later warming up separate from the team. Ankle brace on.

 

[texbender]

Opportunity for the next Lady in.

 

[Irish#1]

Miles looks good. Putting on a clinic at the moment. Ladies looking like they did at the beginning of the season

 

[Old Man Mike]

Phenomenal first quarter, so Ivey changes the defensive match-ups and we give up points. C/mon coach!

... switched back after TO --- we got better.

 

[Irish#1]

Impressed with the effort on both ends. Lots of good ball movement on O and aggressive on D. Except for a couple of sloppy plays on O trying to do too much, almost a perfect game so far.

 

[nvirish]

That wide open air-balled 3 pointer. lol They should have deducted points for that attempt.

 

[Old Man Mike]

The Mask is gone ---> Liatu is (fully) back. ---> BIG trouble for opponents.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

The Mask is gone ---> Liatu is (fully) back. ---> BIG trouble for opponents.

18 pts 15 rebounds 💪🏻

 

[BabyIrish]

What a performance. Liatu was amazing. Soni and Hannah were amazing. We only ended up having 16 assists, but I can recall multiple times where we missed wide open attempts off passes. So even though the production wasn't there, the opportunities to have 20+ assists were.
My biggest worry with this team is complacency. Whatever the coaches did in the two weeks leading up to the tourney, they need to keep on doing. It worked. Don't pat yourself on the back for two blow-out wins against inferior opponents. Get back to work.

For context, Michigan played USC close twice. First game they were only down by 3 at the half and then USC pulled away. Michigan was leading at the half in the second game before USC pulled away in the fourth. This team has the talent to be special. But the road gets tough with TCU and presumably Texas in the Elite Eight.

 

[stpeteirish]

What a performance. Liatu was amazing. Soni and Hannah were amazing. We only ended up having 16 assists, but I can recall multiple times where we missed wide open attempts off passes. So even though the production wasn't there, the opportunities to have 20+ assists were.
My biggest worry with this team is complacency. Whatever the coaches did in the two weeks leading up to the tourney, they need to keep on doing. It worked. Don't pat yourself on the back for two blow-out wins against inferior opponents. Get back to work.

For context, Michigan played USC close twice. First game they were only down by 3 at the half and then USC pulled away. Michigan was leading at the half in the second game before USC pulled away in the fourth. This team has the talent to be special. But the road gets tough with TCU and presumably Texas in the Elite Eight.

Complacency? Hard to be complacent when you're in the sweet sixteen and you have to play a team that took you apart earlier in the season. We've lost in the regionals with regularity in recent years. Hardly the stage for complacency.
However, I am worried about the match ups vs TCU. How do we keep Prince from getting 20+ points without leaving their 3 point shooters? That's the big issue vs these guys.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Also, Van Lith is one of the best 10-20 players in the nation, and extremely tough-minded and battle tested. We must hope that the combination of Soni, Cassandra, and sometimes Hannah can make life miserable for her. This IS possible as teams have limited her for a half, but she is relentless. If Soni and Cass can stop Van Lith, then Hannah can slow the other guard scorer. Then, probably, one player (Prince) cannot beat you, especially a non-guard. That is my hope and game plan at least.