Indiana is going to win the NCAA tournament this year

[SouthernIrish]

mark that down. i picked the Giants too

 

[fortwayne_nd]

mark that down. i picked the Giants too

In which sport ??

 

[ND_Ownz!]

with Bobby Knight as interim HC

 

[NDOM]

mark that down. i picked the Giants too

Yur on crack!. thats funny though.

 

[SouthernIrish]

In which sport ??

well, I guess they could win soccer too

DJ White and Eric Gordon are reminding me of the good ole days

 

[IHateMarkMay]

such a beautiful thread title... i havent been on here as much tonight as the MSU game, been out with the flu. We still looked a bit slow at the start, but as always finish the first half strong and always a strong second half team. I think we can pull off a big win if we stop turning the ball over.

 

[SouthernIrish]

with Bobby Knight as interim HC

it would make my basketball life if Myles Brand had to present that championship trophy to Bobby Knight

 

[IHateMarkMay]

haha i would have to get a picture of that, framed, and signed by Bobby someday haha

 

[SouthernIrish]

i just saw you could rate threads so i 5 star-ed up my own thread

GO HOOSIERS!

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Hell i'll give you a five star for this thread

 

[Win4Gipper]

gotta love the 'can you hear me now' signs at the IU-Purdue game tonight with Sampsons picture holding the phone

 

[IHateMarkMay]

gotta love the 'can you hear me now' signs at the IU-Purdue game tonight with Sampsons picture holding the phone

Yeah, that has to be one of the most creative signs i've seen at a college sporting event ever. I still hate Purdon't though.

 

[fortwayne_nd]

with Bobby Knight as interim HC

Unlikely.

How many NC's does Bob-o have since Alford graduated ??

How many first round exits in the tourney since Alford graduated ??

 

[IHateMarkMay]

That'd be great if whoever the coach will be found a way to get Eric Gordon to stay for another year. I think his game could use another year in college, you still see some frosh mistakes here and there. He is a hell of a player though.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

sniff sniff... you smell what i smell? another huge big10 victory over a hated rival!

 

[SouthernIrish]

Unlikely.

How many NC's does Bob-o have since Alford graduated ??

How many first round exits in the tourney since Alford graduated ??

How many lifetime wins does Bobby have?

Who has more?

 

[fortwayne_nd]

How many lifetime wins does Bobby have?

Who has more?

Here, let me restate the questions:

Since 1987, how many NC's does Bob-o have? Since 1987, how many first round exits does Bob-o have?

Since 1987, which IU coach came the closest to winning an NC? Answer: Davis, lost the championship game to Maryland. Right?

Once upon a time, I thought Bob was the best basketball coach in the game. It used to be said that Bob could beat you with his team, the coaches could switch teams and Bob could turn around and beat you with your own players. That was over twenty years ago.

The last good team Bob had was with Calbert Cheaney (sp), Alan Henderson, Damon Bailey back in the early 90's. In the '92 final four, IU went 8-10 minutes without a FG against Duke. What would Dickie V say? Get a time-out baby. Did Bob get a time-out? Why not? Phil Jackson would have gotten a time-out. Red Auerbach would have gotten a time-out. Coach Wooden would have gotten a time-out. Get a time-out, run a set play to Cal and get a bucket. Thankfully a guard, Todd (forget the last name) started raining down 3's and they get back in the game with a chance to win. But instead of getting the ball to the guy with the hot hand, Meeks decides to be a hero and pisses away an opportunity to win. Why was Meeks even on the court? A good coach gets a win in that game. Next year, Henderson blows out his knee and IU basketball is history. Though I suppose if Davis gets a win against Maryland some would disagree. That would have been like Ty getting an NC his first year, move over Rockne and Leahy.

Many good players for Bob got worse rather than better over their four years with Bob - Winston Morgan and Damon Bailey are two that jump to mind. Though if your not convinced, I could do the research and find another 20 or 30. Is that the sign of a good coach?

How many times did IU get knocked out of the tourney by "lesser talented" players and coaches? Ask a Purdue fan or anyone who bets college basketball. Is that the sign of a well-coached team?

I've had my fair share of beers with former players, including Dakich (sp), and heard the stories from them directly, none of it is funny. That is unless you get a kick out of hearing stories of men who like to smack women around because they don't listen too good. (Yeah, but his kids graduated so Mom got smacked around a bit. She knew what she was getting into.) Wife-beaters rate right up there with Satan and child molesters in my book. And Bob-o doesn't rate much better.

Bob-o was always a Jackass, it just became more apparent over time. Bob made his bed and a tough, unpopular decision was made. A coach that truly got screwed was Lou Holtz. And Notre Dame wandered a decade in the wilderness. Maybe Charlie can get it turned around. When Sampson was hired and the issue at Oklahoma came up, I heard many IU fans say as long as he wins just make sure no one finds out. Sounds like a Gator fan to me.

Finally, just because someone has the most of something doesn't make them a hero. Pete Rose has the most hits all-time and he is banned from the game. Barry Bonds has the most home runs. I think Clemens has the most Cy Young awards. Let's have a parade.

 

[irishN1]

very good post fort wayne ND i don't think anyone is gonna call you on any of it.....
i will say this....he turned a Texas Tech team around that wasn't even on the radar
screen...im a huge IU fan and must say its been tough being a fan for awhile but
still back them and im sure some of those stories would make some of us christians
pretty upset....but he is...a very good coach....can't deny that.....and remember all
good coaches make mistakes there not perfect.

 

[grantphilly]

as long as Kansas doesn't win I'm fine with anyone

 

[JeremyND07]

No way Indiana wins!! The big ten is weaker then they were last year!! I would be surprised to see even 2 big ten teams in the sweet 16...I do not think any will make it to the elite 8!!

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Here, let me restate the questions:

Since 1987, how many NC's does Bob-o have? Since 1987, how many first round exits does Bob-o have?

Since 1987, which IU coach came the closest to winning an NC? Answer: Davis, lost the championship game to Maryland. Right?

Who recruited those players (the seniors who all started, i think there were 4)?

 

[fortwayne_nd]

Who recruited those players (the seniors who all started, i think there were 4)?

I'm not suggesting Davis is a better coach than Bob. But if someone were to ask the question posed, the answer should have been Bob Knight. And the point is the correct answer is someone other than Bob. That's on Bob.

Let me ask you a question. Who recruited Brady Quinn, Maurice, Shark, etc.? Does that make Ty a better coach than Charlie? Brady anywhere near a Heisman if Ty were still the coach?

IU is not even mentioned along with Duke, UNC, Kansas and UCLA anymore. Even Kentucky had more success over the last 20 years. IU is no longer a premier program; hasn't been for over 12-13 years. Coach K will pass Bob for all-time wins in a few years anyway. Bob is known as the guy who threw the chair across the court. Walked off the court when playing the Russians (ala Moss). Had an altercation with a police offier. Had his hands around a player's throat. Said a woman getting raped should lay back and enjoy it. I got a million of them!! Wonder how many Purdue fan has? A billion? How do people remember Coach Wooden? Coach Smith? Coach K?

 

[SouthernIrish]

I'm not suggesting Davis is a better coach than Bob. But if someone were to ask the question posed, the answer should have been Bob Knight. And the point is the correct answer is someone other than Bob. That's on Bob.

Let me ask you a question. Who recruited Brady Quinn, Maurice, Shark, etc.? Does that make Ty a better coach than Charlie? Brady anywhere near a Heisman if Ty were still the coach?

IU is not even mentioned along with Duke, UNC, Kansas and UCLA anymore. Even Kentucky had more success over the last 20 years. IU is no longer a premier program; hasn't been for over 12-13 years. Coach K will pass Bob for all-time wins in a few years anyway. Bob is known as the guy who threw the chair across the court. Walked off the court when playing the Russians (ala Moss). Had an altercation with a police offier. Had his hands around a player's throat. Said a woman getting raped should lay back and enjoy it. I got a million of them!! Wonder how many Purdue fan has? A billion? How do people remember Coach Wooden? Coach Smith? Coach K?

First, the reason IHateMarkMay is correct in bringing up the 2002 team is because you said that the last good team he had was in the early 90s. That team that Knight recruited would have been his team if he had not be fired. We will never know how they would have done with him as coach all the way through but my money is on Knight succeeding.

Then you bring up Wooden, Smith, Coach K.

Wooden was a dirty as they come. He had a booster buying players left and right. EVERYONE knew this. Did you ever read Walton's book? Ever hear of Sam Gilbert? BUT because John Wooden was humble, graceful and appeared to be full of class, he is put up as Saint of the Hardwoods.

Coach Smith once said that the only difference between him and Knight was that Bobby yelled at his players in public while he yelled at them in private.

Coach K quote:
Outside of my immediate family, no single person has had a greater impact on my life than Coach Knight," said Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski, who played for Knight at Army. "I have the ultimate respect for him as a coach and a mentor, but even more so as a dear friend. For more than 40 years, the life lessons I have learned from Coach are immeasurable. Simply put, I love him."


Steve Alford quote:
"I am very fortunate and blessed to have played for him. He made me a better man and for that I am grateful," former Indiana star and current New Mexico coach Steve Alford said."

As far as Indiana being irrelevant, that just makes me laugh. That's like saying Notre Dame is irrelevant because they have not been at the top of the mountain for awhile. Indiana is still considered a premier program in the country. That's why they get the press they do, same as Notre Dame. Its just harder to win at Indiana because up until Sampson, they could not do what other programs like UCLA do, cheat.

NO ONE has ever said that Knight wasn't an arrogant jackass. He did things that made me cringe over the years. I actually think he should have been fired for striking that policeman. I would have been completely fine with that.

But people like you try to demonize him and downplay all that he did. That is no more right than holding John Wooden up as all that is good in baskeball. There is very little black and white in this world and this is a perfect example.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I'm not suggesting Davis is a better coach than Bob. But if someone were to ask the question posed, the answer should have been Bob Knight. And the point is the correct answer is someone other than Bob. That's on Bob.

Let me ask you a question. Who recruited Brady Quinn, Maurice, Shark, etc.? Does that make Ty a better coach than Charlie? Brady anywhere near a Heisman if Ty were still the coach?

IU is not even mentioned along with Duke, UNC, Kansas and UCLA anymore. Even Kentucky had more success over the last 20 years. IU is no longer a premier program; hasn't been for over 12-13 years. Coach K will pass Bob for all-time wins in a few years anyway. Bob is known as the guy who threw the chair across the court. Walked off the court when playing the Russians (ala Moss). Had an altercation with a police offier. Had his hands around a player's throat. Said a woman getting raped should lay back and enjoy it. I got a million of them!! Wonder how many Purdue fan has? A billion? How do people remember Coach Wooden? Coach Smith? Coach K?

haha, i dont konw about that, they cant seem to get past the Wake Forest's and Miami's of the ACC haha.

I understand where you are coming from, people have their different views of Bob Knight as do people have different views of Charlie Weis. I didnt say Davis was a better coach than Knight, nor is Ty compared to Charlie. You do make valid points, a lot of people will remember him for those things he did and said. But like i said, everybody has their opinion, i grew up on him, my dad loved him, i love him, and theres not a lot that can change that.

 

[Sergeant]

Bob Knight will always be a hypocrite to me. He was a man who demanded total accountability from everyone around him. But when it came down to him being accountable for his actions, he always portrayed himself as a victim of circumstances. The true test of a leader is how well you take responsibility for your own actions. Knight has failed that test time and time again.

Even at Texas Tech, his act had started to wear thin. The same people who were moon eyed over the great coach deciding to take a job at a basketball backwater started to get frustrated at his inability to get his teams past the second round of the tournament. They were frustrated that the great recruiter was being beaten by Texas, Texas A&M, and even Baylor for recruits.

The bottom line is that everyone draws their own image of Knight.

 

[fortwayne_nd]

First, the reason IHateMarkMay is correct in bringing up the 2002 team is because you said that the last good team he had was in the early 90s. That team that Knight recruited would have been his team if he had not be fired. We will never know how they would have done with him as coach all the way through but my money is on Knight succeeding.

Then you bring up Wooden, Smith, Coach K.

Wooden was a dirty as they come. He had a booster buying players left and right. EVERYONE knew this. Did you ever read Walton's book? Ever hear of Sam Gilbert? BUT because John Wooden was humble, graceful and appeared to be full of class, he is put up as Saint of the Hardwoods.

Coach Smith once said that the only difference between him and Knight was that Bobby yelled at his players in public while he yelled at them in private.

Coach K quote:
Outside of my immediate family, no single person has had a greater impact on my life than Coach Knight," said Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski, who played for Knight at Army. "I have the ultimate respect for him as a coach and a mentor, but even more so as a dear friend. For more than 40 years, the life lessons I have learned from Coach are immeasurable. Simply put, I love him."


Steve Alford quote:
"I am very fortunate and blessed to have played for him. He made me a better man and for that I am grateful," former Indiana star and current New Mexico coach Steve Alford said."

As far as Indiana being irrelevant, that just makes me laugh. That's like saying Notre Dame is irrelevant because they have not been at the top of the mountain for awhile. Indiana is still considered a premier program in the country. That's why they get the press they do, same as Notre Dame. Its just harder to win at Indiana because up until Sampson, they could not do what other programs like UCLA do, cheat.

NO ONE has ever said that Knight wasn't an arrogant jackass. He did things that made me cringe over the years. I actually think he should have been fired for striking that policeman. I would have been completely fine with that.

But people like you try to demonize him and downplay all that he did. That is no more right than holding John Wooden up as all that is good in baskeball. There is very little black and white in this world and this is a perfect example.

Wow, I really got the IU fans worked up. I probably should have let the very first comment pass. The IU fans were having a warm and fuzzy moment which is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no reasons are required to like the team or coach you like. Its just Bob is a sore point and I couldn't resist the bait.

The 2002 team included Tom Coverdale, AJ Moye, Jeff Newton, Kyle Hornsby, Jared Jeffries and Jarrad Odle. If Bob coached them they might have been a lock to win a championship. Looking back on it, they were probably lucky to get as far as they did. They were the first IU team to lose the Hoosier Classic. That would be like Notre Dame losing to Navy.

Wooden, Smith and K: Okay, maybe they were all cheaters. Let me use a couple of Indiana contemporaries: Digger Phelps and Gene Keady. Were they also cheaters? My point is other coaches ran clean programs without the rap sheet. Maybe Bob doesn't win any chanmpionships without the rap sheet? Maybe that was Bob's edge?

Coach Smith has always spoken well of Bob though I don't recall any of his players complaining about or there being any footage of physical abuse.

Coach K has also sung Bob's praises. I'm guessing K's mental toughness probably helped him cope with Bob better than most players. Dakich said it many times that you had to let it go in one ear and out the other or the verbal abuse would destroy your confidence. Coach K was interviewed a few years ago and his relationship with Knight came up. They talked about a game when Duke beat IU and at the end of the game Bob gave him the quick handshake and never stopped walking. I think that was the 1992 game. Mike said he was hurt and his wife said he was crushed. Maybe Bob had to use the can and couldn't hold it any longer. How long would it have taken to say nice game Mike, your boys played hard. Looks like Bob and the Patriots coach have more than three championships in common.

I was the VP of Financial Affairs at a college where Alford used to be the coach. He had left before I arrived so I never met him personally though I heard many stories about Steve. He was well-liked and people were always in a good humor when telling the stories. And whenever I asked them to tell me one of Steve's stories about Bob, the smiles disappeared from their faces and their eyes found their shoes. I'm sure Steve is grateful to Bob for many things. Sometimes people say one thing for public consumption and maybe another in a private setting. Kind of the way Coach Smith exercised discretion with criticizing his players.

We probably have different definitions of premier and you are entitled to your's. I was using recruits and championships as my measures of success. Bob's last good recruiting class was in 1991 with Alan Henderson and Brian Evans. From 1973 through 1993 (Bob's last good team), IU won or shared 11 Big Ten titles and had 3 NCs. They won a Big Ten championship on average every other year. From 1994 through 2007, they shared one Big Ten title. Over that same period, Purdue won 3, MSU - 4, OSU - 4, and Illinois had 5. IU is not even the premier team in the conference anymore.

Bob assaulted the cop in 1979, he would have been fired before NC's #2 and #3.

Notre Dame has a storied football program previously unrivaled. But doesn't a premier progam win a bowl game once in awhile? Ten straight bowl losses, is that right? Beat USC once in awhile? Charlie still has a mountain in front of him.

No one has to demonize Bob. Just recite the facts and let Bob screw himself.

 

[fortwayne_nd]

haha, i dont konw about that, they cant seem to get past the Wake Forest's and Miami's of the ACC haha.

I understand where you are coming from, people have their different views of Bob Knight as do people have different views of Charlie Weis. I didnt say Davis was a better coach than Knight, nor is Ty compared to Charlie. You do make valid points, a lot of people will remember him for those things he did and said. But like i said, everybody has their opinion, i grew up on him, my dad loved him, i love him, and theres not a lot that can change that.

Fair enough. I used to idolize Bob when I was in my youth. I thought when he retired he would be considered the greatest coach of all time. It didn't work out that way, he's known for his controversies as much or more than his successes.

Walton gets a gift call in 73, May breaks his arm in 75, Landon gets severely injuried in 82, Kitchel hurts his back in 83 and Henderson blows out his knee in 93. Without the injuries, I think Bob has another 2 NCs.

Mike has a chance to get win #800 this year, maybe UNC at Cameron the last regular season game? Bob started as a head coach ten years before Mike. K's only a hundred wins behind.