Kevin White continues to dumb down future schedules

[notredomer23]

OK, here's the 2009 schedule. Note who we play after 10/24. So while everyone else is playing the meat of their schedules, and their big rivalry games, we are beating up on a bunch of patsies.


2009
Sept. 5 NEVADA
Sept. 12 at Michigan
Sept. 19 MICHIGAN STATE
Sept. 26 at Purdue
Oct. 3 WASHINGTON
Oct. 17 USC
Oct. 24 BOSTON COLLEGE
Oct. 31 Washington State (at San Antonio, TX)
Nov. 7 NAVY
Nov. 14 at Pittsburgh
Nov. 21 CONNECTICUT
Nov. 28 at Stanford

Just note, Pitt and Uconn are on the rise. Wazzou might be but we wont know until then. Stanford has a chance at being good.

 

[notredomer23]

Apparently, you missed the game at Cincinnati two years ago when the Bearcats stormed the field. Rutgers is a tough opponent, as is every top echelon team in the Big East.

Im willing to bet you Rutgers will go 4-8 next year

 

[Legacy]

Besides level of competition, geographic distribution of games, playing in large venues, and commitment to long-time rivals, ND has also traditionally schools who commit to the academics of their players.
Using the NCAA Academic Progress Rate (APR) for 3 yrs, our non annual rivals and their APRs were:
'07 - Duke (978), Air Force (975), Penn St (960), Georgia Tech (959) and UCLA (931).
(ND's was 964 and the D-1 median was 931)
'08 - San Diego St (888), North Carolina (948), Washington (942), Pittsburgh (948) and
Syracuse (958)
'09 - Nevada (920+), Wash (942), Pitts (948), Wash St (930), and Conn (963)

Three teams stand out - San Diego St, Nevada, and Wash St. Nevada and San Diego St were scheduled for moving their game, so ND could open with BYU in '06. Wash St may have been a matter of availability. The game will be played in San Antonio.

The Big East's top 4 in APR are: Rutgers (971), Conn (963), Syr (958) and Pitts (948) - all future opponents. Louisville (947) and Cincinnati (941) are next, then West Virginia (924). So we are meeting our obligation of two teams per year with those with high APRs.

The Pac-10's top 4 in APR are: Stanford (984), Cal (965), USC (947) and Wash (942) - all but Cal are opponents. We may not play Cal because we are playing one Bay area team already. Then UCLA (931), Wash St (930) and ASU (926).

So future scheduling of Wake Forest (966) and Rutgers (971), but also Missouri (934) and ASU (926).

Looking at those numbers, we may be dumbing down our schedule.

 

[NDSMC78]

Apparently, you missed the game at Cincinnati two years ago when the Bearcats stormed the field. Rutgers is a tough opponent, as is every top echelon team in the Big East.

Yeah, I missed the big game between Cincinnati and Rutgers. But let's look at the long term. We wouldn't look at 2007 as some indicia of the usual performance of ND football.We can't look at 2006 as the sole barometer of the quality of Rutgers football.

The last 25 years of Rutgers football:

2007 8-5
2006 11-2
2005 7-5
2004 4-7
2003 5-7
2002 1-11
2001 2-9
2000 3-8
1999 1-10
1998 5-6
1997 0-11
1996 2-9
1995 4-7
1994 5-5-1
1993 4-7
1992 7-4
1991 6-5
1990 3-8
1989 2-7-2
1988 5-6
1987 6-5
1986 5-5-1
1985 2-8-1
1984 7-3
1983 3-8

 

[KamaraPolice]

We played Rutgers when they were sorry, what's wrong with play a team thats playing the best football in their school history.

 

[NDSMC78]

We played Rutgers when they were sorry, what's wrong with play a team thats playing the best football in their school history.

Too late for that. 2006 has come and gone.

 

[KamaraPolice]

Too late for that. 2006 has come and gone.

Im all for a tougher schedule and playing cupcakes to end the season has proved devasting for bowl games. But Rutgers isn't a team to complain about. They are far better than the 3 service academies that appear every season.

 

[notredomer23]

Im all for a tougher schedule and playing cupcakes to end the season has proved devasting for bowl games. But Rutgers isn't a team to complain about. They are far better than the 3 service academies that appear every season.

they are going to do nothing this year unless somebody steps in the place of Ray Rice. If not the can expect a 4 win season.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Rutgers and UConn are not good programs. Rutgers has been terrible for years. The fact that Rutgers went to a couple minor bowls the past couple years does not change that. UConn? Are you kidding me?
As for Wake Forest, Mizzou, and ASU, I've got no problem playing them, but why not a home and home? And why does White continue to duck playing the traditional powers?

How many 'POWERS' do we have to face in one season? USC and Michigan are perrenial top-10 programs over the course of time. We have peppered in games against 'upper echelon' teams including LSU, Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma, Penn State over the last 10 years. Not making the effort to do research, I would argue that most seasons we have at least 2, if not 3 top-15 programs on our schedule. We pepper the rest of our schedule with solid programs like BC, MSU, Purdue, that sniff the top-25 at some point in most seasons. Sure we have our perceived patsies in the service academies (tough to use that term after this season, and tough to call AF and Navy patsies when those teams WIN bowl games), but all top-tier teams in the major conferences have their weak OOC games and lower-tier conference games mixed in. On paper, we have a competitive schedule every year.

In order to compete for national championships, it is not fair to our program to stuff the schedule with more than 3 'big time' games in a single season. As long as teams like the Bucknuts play every directional team in their state, we are not going to be able to compete for championships. This will have a residual impact on recruiting and the growth of our program.

Not really sharing a new argument, but what are we looking for? We have our traditional rivalries in scUM, $C, MSU, BC, and Navy. Those shouldn't (and won't) go away. Dump Purduh and Stanford every few years to keep the schedule fresh, and rotate through the programs mentioned in the article such as ASU, Wake, and the like.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

From today's Chicago Tribune, I have linked an article about ND's future schedules. It's more of the same from Kevin White. He is apparently talking about scheduling future games against such powers as Army, Baylor, UConn and Rutgers. There is also mention of home games against Wake Forest, Missouri, and Arizona St., but no return away games.
This, of course, is after White has said there is no room on future schedules for Texas, LSU, Bama and UGA. Absolutely disagraceful.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...schedfeb10,1,2822926.story?ctrack=2&cset=true

We must all bear in mind that these schedules will STILL keep us in the Top20 for Strength of Schedule.

 

[mbooch]

Im all for a tougher schedule and playing cupcakes to end the season has proved devasting for bowl games. But Rutgers isn't a team to complain about. They are far better than the 3 service academies that appear every season.

Tell y'all what... ND needs to be playing more games in Texas and Florida. Also, the dumbing down indictment is absolutely true when you look at the BASKETBALL schedule.

 

[phork]

As long as we don't stoop to Div1aa or worse. Frankly if your schedule is not 100% Div1a then you should be ineligible for any BCS games.
A temporary dumbing down of schedules wouldn't be a bad thing. A win builds confidence, winning a lot just multiplies that. Once the kids in the system grow and learn to have a culture of winning, the rest is easy. Then you slowly ramp up the schedule once the recruit train is filling up the stables on a consistent basis.

 

[notredomer23]

for 08, I like the schedule, but if i had it my way it would look like this(same teams, just different set up):
1. SDSU
2. Pitt
3. UW
4. Navy
5. UM
6. Purdue
7. MSU
8. Syracuse
9. Bye
10. Stanford
11.UNC
12. BC
13. USC

 

[johnnd05]

Mike Coffey has a long post about scheduling (he's not happy about it) here: Notes from the Geetar: 4-4-4 Revisited.

 

[NDSMC78]

I don't always agree with everything Mike Coffey says, but he makes a lot of good points inn his article. ND should not be afraid to play quality opponents.

 

[NDSMC78]

We must all bear in mind that these schedules will STILL keep us in the Top20 for Strength of Schedule.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I have linked Sagarin's ratings for the 2007 season. ND had the # 24 SOS. In 2008, it likely won't be that high, with Georgia Tech, Penn St. and UCLA off the schedule.

College Football Ratings Page

 

[PADOMERNUT]

why dont we just play usc 12 times. i think thats the only thing that will make some of you happy.

 

[NDSMC78]

why dont we just play usc 12 times. i think thats the only thing that will make some of you happy.

Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying that and you know it.

But here is an article from today's Hartford Journal Courant. Apparently, the ND/UConn series is a 10 game series. Hardly an opponent we should be playing 10 games against, IMO.



No Rent A High Price To Land Irish -- Courant.com

 

[rattfink]

I don't necessarily agree with that. I have linked Sagarin's ratings for the 2007 season. ND had the # 24 SOS. In 2008, it likely won't be that high, with Georgia Tech, Penn St. and UCLA off the schedule.

College Football Ratings Page

Look at Sagarin's top 10 for strenght of schedule for '07 (bowl games included):

1. UCLA 6-7
2. Washington 4-9
3. Florida 9-4
4. Nebraska 5-7
5. Oregon 9-4
6. Arizona 5-7
7. California 7-6
8. South Carolina 6-6
9. Tennessee 10-4
10. Stanford 4-8

Zero BCS bowl teams in this list. Only 2 New Year's Day bowl teams in this list. 5 total bowl teams. Let's look at the next ten:

11. LSU 12-2
12. Washington St 5-7
13. Mississippi 3-9
14. Colorado 6-7
15. Vanerbilt 5-7
16. Oregon St 9-4
17. Kentucky 8-5
18. Oklahoma St 7-6
19. Arizona St 10-3
20. Iowa St 3-9

BCS national champ is in the list. So 1 BCS team and 1 New Year's Day bowl team. 6 total bowl teams. So for the top 20 SOS only 1 BCS game.

What's the median SOS of the top 10 teams from Sagrain? 27. Throw out Kansas' very low #74 ranking and you get 25. So the point I'm getting at is the ND shouldn't strive for a top 10 schedule and that a top 30 schedule is more than enough to get the Irish into a quality bowl game. ND's SOS last year? 23. Will that number be lower in the future? Maybe but overall I like ND's scheduling for the coming years.

 

[NDOM]

Look at Sagarin's top 10 for strenght of schedule for '07 (bowl games included):

1. UCLA 6-7
2. Washington 4-9
3. Florida 9-4
4. Nebraska 5-7
5. Oregon 9-4
6. Arizona 5-7
7. California 7-6
8. South Carolina 6-6
9. Tennessee 10-4
10. Stanford 4-8

Zero BCS bowl teams in this list. Only 2 New Year's Day bowl teams in this list. 5 total bowl teams. Let's look at the next ten:

11. LSU 12-2
12. Washington St 5-7
13. Mississippi 3-9
14. Colorado 6-7
15. Vanerbilt 5-7
16. Oregon St 9-4
17. Kentucky 8-5
18. Oklahoma St 7-6
19. Arizona St 10-3
20. Iowa St 3-9

BCS national champ is in the list. So 1 BCS team and 1 New Year's Day bowl team. 6 total bowl teams. So for the top 20 SOS only 1 BCS game.

What's the median SOS of the top 10 teams from Sagrain? 27. Throw out Kansas' very low #74 ranking and you get 25. So the point I'm getting at is the ND shouldn't strive for a top 10 schedule and that a top 30 schedule is more than enough to get the Irish into a quality bowl game. ND's SOS last year? 23. Will that number be lower in the future? Maybe but overall I like ND's scheduling for the coming years.

Oohh. Very good post. Reps for you my friend.

 

[grantphilly]

go tigers

 

[Granger Irish]

I think we have punished ourselves by scheduling too many tough teams and, when we do, we do not space it out right. On the other hand, there are teams that win big because of an easier schedule. We can be stubborn and insist we play everybody (all tough teams, that is). But, I really think we go overboard and gain nothing by doing it.

 

[loomis41973]

Another bitchy article from "The Geetar" One year the schedulle is too hard and the next too soft. Even Goldilocks found some porridge that she liked eventually , unlike those clowns at NDN.

 

[Win4Gipper]

I love the deal with UConn... we never have to go there and get to play them in the city multiple times... I love going back to the playing at 'neutral' sites in big city areas.... that will continue to build our fanbase and our recruiting bases...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Don't be ridiculous. No one is saying that and you know it.

But here is an article from today's Hartford Journal Courant. Apparently, the ND/UConn series is a 10 game series. Hardly an opponent we should be playing 10 games against, IMO.

No Rent A High Price To Land Irish -- Courant.com

Why should we only schedule long term agreements with Top teams?

Honestly, I would rather see 10 scheduled with a few mid-tiers a couple low-tiers like someone like UConn...a forever series with USC, UM, Navy, Purdue...and then set aside 3 for random mid-tiers.

The key is stagger the long-term series.

 

[GoshenGipper]

for 08, I like the schedule, but if i had it my way it would look like this(same teams, just different set up):
1. SDSU
2. Pitt
3. UW
4. Navy
5. UM
6. Purdue
7. MSU
8. Syracuse
9. Bye
10. Stanford
11.UNC
12. BC
13. USC

I don't think it would be a very good idea to have all those games back to back. It's really hard to stay at an emotional and physical peak for that long. That's one of the problems with the current schedule.

 

[CLEARWALL]

Im sick of always seeing the MSU/scUM games back to back.

 

[mbooch]

No, no, NO! What MADE Notre Dame, back in the Rockne Era, was going anywhere top competition was available to play. UConn just flat isn't good enough. Neither is Nevada. White is screwing with "the Brand", the Mystique, and the Tradition. He has to be reined in, or kicked out. You can bet the GD farm that neither Leahy, nor Ara, nor Lou, whe THEY were asked who to schedule, said, "Well, let's not get carried away. A top 30 Strength of Schedule is god enough". ND just isn't IN the "Good Enough" business.

 

[Legacy]

I won't go back to the Rockne era. But I want to compare schedules with the Ara's 1970 ND team's that went 10-1. That team finished #2, beating Texas in the Cotton Bowl. Then, teams played 10-11 regular season games and ties were allowed. ND was consistently in the top 10. I'll include records for our opponents for that year.
'70 Northwestern (6-4) '08 San Diego St '09 Nevada
*Purdue (4-6) Michigan Michigan
*Mich St (4-6) *Mich St *Mich St
Army (1-9-1) *Purdue *Purdue
Missouri (5-6) Stanford Washington
*Navy (2-9) North Carolina *USC
*Pittsburgh (5-5) Washington BC
Georgia Tech (9-3) #13 *Pittsburgh Wash St
LSU (9-3) #7 Boston College *Navy
*USC (6-4-1) #15 (only loss) *Navy *Pittsburgh
Syracuse Conn
*USC Stanford
Texas (10-1) in Cotton Bowl
SOS #22

I feel our scheduling in comparison to Ara's years is comparable. Comparing '70 schedule to '08 and '09s, we have one less academy, and there are five teams we have continued to play (asterisked). Comparing the other 5 from '70 to our future schedules, Michigan and BC are comparable to Georgia Tech and LSU from '70, and the three '70 non-yearly opponents left (Army, Missouri, and Northwestern) had a combined 12-19-1 record that year. The records of our opponents last year were much superior than '70. As pointed out, our SOS last year was 25, compared to a SOS of 22 in '70.
San Diego St and Nevada are anomalies due to commitments we made so we could play BYU in our opener in '06. We've added Stanford to balance out our games with USC, (which won't play in South Bend in the cold) and to play one game a year on the West coast. The imbalance comes with scheduling Michigan early each year. The ideal would have been to find a comparably strong opponent who would schedule opposite USC, which would have spread our strength of schedule out throughout the season.
There are pressures with sold out home games to provide more opportunities for ND fans and alumni to attend games including large venue games.
What I find is less geographical dispersion of opponents with a schedule that has 3 Big 10, 3 PAC 10 and 2 Big East teams (to be 3 later). No ACC, SEC or Big 12 teams in '08 or '09. In '70 we played Missouri, Georgia Tech and LSU. And to play Washington St in San Antonio? I imagine their fans do not travel well and that Wash St is not a big draw in Texas.

 

[Irish52]

Let me give you a 4th reason why we went 3 and 9 last season. First. let me preface my comments with " I love Charlie Weis and all that he stands for...ND could not have selected a better man for the job". Having said that, I suggest you read the myriad of comments during the season attesting to the poor play calling by Charlie. I think at times, he confused the Patriots team with the inexperienced team he had and did not know how to adjust. For support, I look to the changes being made during the off season. I'm confident Charlie will continue to adjust to get the best coaching staff possible and use his players with demonstrated skill more effectively and win...big...for the greatest university in the country. Go Irish!