Changes to the Victory March

[GoshenGipper]

Reconsidering the Victory March

We write to you today as mother and daughter, alumna and student of Notre Dame. We write about something very dear to the Notre Dame family: The Victory March, or fight song, if you will. Last weekend, we attended the USC game and, along with thousands of other cheering fans, belted out the fight song. Caity, the student, got the chance to sing it with both the student body and with her family. And believe it or not, she sang two different versions. The student body finished off the fight song with, "…while her loyal sons are marching onward to victory." Our family, however, finished it off with, "…while her loyal sons and daughters march on to victory."

You see, Caity and her seven siblings are the proud legacies of two 1980 Notre Dame grads, who taught their kids the latter version. Yes, in the years from 1976-1980, at least some of the members of the Notre Dame student body sang a gender-inclusive fight song! So, why the regression to the sexist, exclusive version we sing today? Or at least, why didn't the inclusive version catch on? We have absolutely no idea. It is simply shameful that the Notre Dame student body is perpetuating the current version, and we think it's high time we include the loyal daughters of Notre Dame in our Victory March. Coeducation at Notre Dame began 35 years ago, and women now make up nearly 50 percent of the student body. We don't care that only men play football; we sing the song at Notre Dame events of all kinds that include both men and women.

We suggest that the current history-making pair of female student government leaders take this on and make even more history by including women in the fight song. After all, what a shame it is that male students get to raise their hands in the air on "sons" and female students have to raise their hands on "her," which refers to Our Lady, and not to the women of Notre Dame.



Caity Schneeman
senior
Cavanaugh Hall

Erin Burns Schneeman
Class of 1980
St. Paul, Minn.
Oct. 27

Here's a bunch of comments and articles

Discussion of Victory March continues

It's just a bunch of PC BS if you ask me and most of the women I've seen comment on it agree with me. If they want to sing it a little different at women's sporting events I'd be ok with that, but they don't need to officially change the lyics. Seriously, sexist, shameful?! Get a life lady!

 

[johnnd05]

hwhateve

 

[goldandblue]

freaking people........

 

[SouthieND04]

this is poop. The song is THE greatest fight song. It shouldn't be changed.

 

[loomis41973]

Some peeps have too much time on their hands. Why not pick a legitimate cause to bitch about?

 

[KAPLAN]

Some people are just no life having morons. It is tradtion. By the way the ones marching are all sons, never seen a woman on the team. This lady is a loser that really needs to get a life. Some people really piss me off.

 

[quiksilver253]

who cares, it was an all boys school first, screw whether it's PC. america these days is sad.

The following video is glorious YouTube - Ending Women's Suffrage

 

[Moostache]

People who actually worry about stuff like this (gender equality in a song originally composed for an all-male school and made famous for its playing at all-male athletic events) completely miss the boat. Instead of understanding the history and meaning of traditions - and where they originate and what they are symbolic of; these thought and speech Nazis want to tell others what is acceptable according to their own myopic interpretive lens; or, the ultimate in arrogance and self-interest, rewrite the traditions to place themselves and their opinions at the center. Let the original meaning of the symbol or song or words be damned!

Political Correctness is the scourge of the latter-20th and early-21st centuries.

What probably bothers me about it more than anything is the ugly and dangerous undercurrents of such group mindthink and the widespread acceptance of it. Its a smaller and smaller step each year from "politcally correct" to "politically mandated" to "politically required" to "jailable offense for disagreeing with the politcal truth".

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I wonder where she kepts her husband's balls...my guess the freezer....If my wife ever was acting that why I would tell her to get in the kitchen and bake me a pie....I can say that because she will never read this and if she does I am sorry.

 

[Sureal]

I wonder where she kepts her husband's balls...my guess the freezer....If my wife ever was acting that why I would tell her to get in the kitchen and bake me a pie....I can say that because she will never read this and if she does I am sorry.

LOL


CLASSIC!!!

 

[SoCalDomer]

Yah, we're not sexists. We have a whole thread set up for women called Hot or not! grin:

Where's Walsh's avatar when we need it?

 

[GoshenGipper]

Yah, we're not sexists. We have a whole thread set up for women called Hot or not! grin:

Where's Walsh's avatar when we need it?

That has it's own thread too.

 

[kmoose]

I'm surprised that Miss Schneeman, who is a senior and presumably prepared to graduate with a degree from the University of Notre Dame, is weak minded enough to let the words of a song effect her so strongly. Sexist? Words are not sexist. Words are simply language. It's how people interpret language that is sexist...............or isn't. You see, it's simply your choice. You read words, and assign your own meaning to those words. Miss Schneeman obviously chooses to interpret the words in the Victory March as being exclusive of her gender. Perhaps, if she were mentally strong enough to overcome the initial emotion of outrage, and actually think about it: is Notre Dame really sexually exclusive? The fact that she is there, as a student, should indicate that exclusion is not the case. The fact that there are two female "student government leaders" (who were probably elected to their positions) for her to appeal to probably debunks any myth of exclusion, as well. Perhaps she should ask Dr. Carolyn Woo, Dean of the Mendoza School of Business, if Dr. Woo feels that the University promotes sexism? I would venture to say that Mrs. Schneeman was probably a bra burning feminazi who has raised her daughter to believe that she should scream loudly, any time she feels the slightest bit put out by something masculine.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I'm surprised that Miss Schneeman, who is a senior and presumably prepared to graduate with a degree from the University of Notre Dame, is weak minded enough to let the words of a song effect her so strongly. Sexist? Words are not sexist. Words are simply language. It's how people interpret language that is sexist...............or isn't. You see, it's simply your choice. You read words, and assign your own meaning to those words. Miss Schneeman obviously chooses to interpret the words in the Victory March as being exclusive of her gender. Perhaps, if she were mentally strong enough to overcome the initial emotion of outrage, and actually think about it: is Notre Dame really sexually exclusive? The fact that she is there, as a student, should indicate that exclusion is not the case. The fact that there are two female "student government leaders" (who were probably elected to their positions) for her to appeal to probably debunks any myth of exclusion, as well. Perhaps she should ask Dr. Carolyn Woo, Dean of the Mendoza School of Business, if Dr. Woo feels that the University promotes sexism? I would venture to say that Mrs. Schneeman was probably a bra burning feminazi who has raised her daughter to believe that she should scream loudly, any time she feels the slightest bit put out by something masculine.

From what I've heard she's a complete liberal that trys to turn everything into a huge issue, especially anything to do with women's lib, and accordin to people that have had class with her everyone knows it and everyone including the professor cringes when she raises her hand because they all hate listening to her talk/argue.

 

[SoCalDomer]

From what I've heard she's a complete liberal that trys to turn everything into a huge issue, especially anything to do with women's lib, and accordin to people that have had class with her everyone knows it and everyone including the professor cringes when she raises her hand because they all hate listening to her talk/argue.

That's unfortunate that some people hold their viewpoints so tightly and argue so adamantly that it turns people off from listening.

If I disagree with someone's opinion on an issue, it is far better if a thoughtful dialogue can occurr versus someone shouting down any objection to their viewpoint.

 

[GoshenGipper]

That's unfortunate that some people hold their viewpoints so tightly and argue so adamantly that it turns people off from listening.

In high school I knew a kid that would argue with absolutly anything. One of our traniners went up to him and told him that the Earth was round just to see what he would say, and sure enough he argued with him about the spare of the Earth.

Needless to say I beat the kid up several times, none of which I started.

 

[WalshND]

Where's Walsh's avatar when we need it?

Enjoy, my fellow neanderthal.

As soon as I saw that "Mom" has a hyphenated last name I knew it wasn't gonna be good.

 

[piyachi]

Lets see the odds on whether ND would change the fight song for some PC BS....

longer odds than DJ leading us to a NC this year

 

[kmoose]

Lets see the odds on whether ND would change the fight song for some PC BS....

longer odds than DJ leading us to a NC this year

Or, as I am fond of saying:

Look up, your chances of seeing God are better.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Enjoy, my fellow neanderthal.

See we appreciate women. Just look at Walsh's avatar. We think they have good assets and frontsets too.

 

[tripsdad]

Gentlemen! I am sorry, but I need to point out that all your attacks against the Schneemans are mean-spirited and misplaced. By attacking them personally you are reducing an arguement to a fight. Will the University change the official lyrics? Highly, highly, highly unlikely. I suggest a response of a very non-commital "what an interesting point you make, ma'am." And then go on singing the fight song w/the original lyrics as written.

 

[KamaraPolice]

Gentlemen! I am sorry, but I need to point out that all your attacks against the Schneemans are mean-spirited and misplaced. By attacking them personally you are reducing an arguement to a fight. Will the University change the official lyrics? Highly, highly, highly unlikely. I suggest a response of a very non-commital "what an interesting point you make, ma'am." And then go on singing the fight song w/the original lyrics as written.

I agree.

 

[SouthernIrish]

As a woman, I hate seeing stuff like that. When you bring in the trivial, like changing lyrics to a long established and beloved song, you hurt the credibilty of the arguements in areas that really do matter like equal pay and career advancement.

Besides, you have the "sons and daughters" marching in "Here Come The Irish" i do believe...

 

[Wham]

People who actually worry about stuff like this (gender equality in a song originally composed for an all-male school and made famous for its playing at all-male athletic events) completely miss the boat. Instead of understanding the history and meaning of traditions - and where they originate and what they are symbolic of; these thought and speech Nazis want to tell others what is acceptable according to their own myopic interpretive lens; or, the ultimate in arrogance and self-interest, rewrite the traditions to place themselves and their opinions at the center. Let the original meaning of the symbol or song or words be damned!

Political Correctness is the scourge of the latter-20th and early-21st centuries.

What probably bothers me about it more than anything is the ugly and dangerous undercurrents of such group mindthink and the widespread acceptance of it. Its a smaller and smaller step each year from "politcally correct" to "politically mandated" to "politically required" to "jailable offense for disagreeing with the politcal truth".

The U.S. Constitution has ammendments. Maybe the Notre Dame fight song can amend during female athletic activities. As far as ND football (and as far as I know, this is a football song) the song will remain the same.

Just a thought.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Let's get a female Leprechaun as well. We'll have Leppy and Leprosy.

Enjoy voting for Hilary.

 

[Wham]

Let's get a female Leprechaun as well. We'll have Leppy and Leprosy.

Enjoy voting for Hilary.

The leprechaun should probably get married eventually. The 400 year old virgin?

 

[Wham]

I just might vote for Hillary. I'm not afraid of change.

 

[johnnd05]

Let's get a female Leprechaun as well. We'll have Leppy and Leprosy.

Enjoy voting for Hilary.

LMAO ... reps.

 

[Wham]

I expect that from you johnnd. Just wait until your daughter...

You still have not answered my question.

 

[Jason Pham]

From what I've heard she's a complete liberal that trys to turn everything into a huge issue, especially anything to do with women's lib, and accordin to people that have had class with her everyone knows it and everyone including the professor cringes when she raises her hand because they all hate listening to her talk/argue.

Thank goodness I'm an underclassman. Had I found myself within an audible distance of someone of her dissonance, I would likely begin to question the existence of God.