2008 CW's Career Path Season

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
Now that we all know 2007 is a rebuilding year whether CW wants admit the fact or not, we must realize that 2008 will completely decide the success or failure of CW at ND. Fact is we have seen two sides to Charlie Weiss's talents. In 2005-06 he took upper class laden teams that were underperforming and raised the level of play, especially in 2005. In 2006 they did not improve and may have regressed some, but still played at a fairly high level and executed in some tough situations(UCLA and MSU). They did show some flounderings though(LSU, USC and UM). Now in 2007 CW has done a good job to screw up this season. The Jones mess, playing a less than healthy QB and not coaching up a young team. Further, the kids have shown many instances where they are not playing hard for CW(Purdue, UM). We all got very excited after CW made ND a winner again in 2005, then we were dissapointed in 2006 when we did not get to the NC game and in 2007 we expected rebuilding, but this has been a far worse season than anyone expected. CW you are getting a pass in 2007 since we expected rebuilding and you are bringing in a killer recruiting class. In 2008 there are some criteria you MUST meet which will tell us we are headed toward elite level. If these are not met, ND MUST MOVE ON. These goals I will present are NOT unrealistic and very achievable if CW is worth his salt.

1. Win 9 Regular Season Games - This is important because we must show the rebuilding is almost complete and ND again is winning the games that they should.
Reasons This IS Achievable>>
SCHEDULE: If you look at the 2008 schedule, it has been softened and there are only two teams on the schedule where we will be underdogs. Maybe two that we will be a pick um. W's -(San Diego, Pit, Navy, Syracuse, Stanford, N. Carolina, Washington, Purdue), Pick-ums(MSU, BC), L's(USC, UM). As for the W's, these are all programs that should never beat ND. I know that Carolina and Stanford are on a bit of an upswing with new coaches, but if those guys can get there programs to a level higher than ND in two years CW is in trouble. BC loses many many starters, so they should drop a notch. USC will be loaded as usual, but UM loses Henne and Hart which will be huge. 8-4 can be excepted IF these are very very competitive losses or due to significant injuries. 7-5 or worse will signal the end.
ROSTER: We are going to be returning almost complete starting line-ups. On offense, we will have 2 QB's with extensive playing time. The RB's and FB's return as a whole and at RB we will have the more depth and talent than the last 10 years. The OL will be all upper classmen and all have started at a minimum a full season. The back ups will be talented and big. At TE we lose a talented Carlson, but we return Yeatman who is a great blocker, Ragone who will stretch the field and bring in the number 1 rated freshman. WR will have both speed, size and experience. With Parris, Tate, Kamara, Grimes, West, Hord and whatever talented freshman comes aboard, the cupboard is FULL. On Defense, we basically lose two starters. Laws who will be a big loss and Zibby who will be replaced by a bevy of talent. The safety position is freakin loaded. Bruton will be the leader. McCarthy, Harrison Smith, Gaines and the incoming class will have ND the envy of many because of our talent level here. At CB, we will be able to line up with any receiving corp around. Walls, McNeil, Gray, Prince, and Lambert if he decides to return will be rock solid. OLB is a position on the rise. With Neal and Smith having a year to grow and get stronger, they should dominate. Ryan and Mo Richardson will give us a change of pace and depth. Add in Fleming and wow were deep. ILB will probably still be anchored by Mo Crum and Toryan Smith, however guys like Paskorz, Filer and McDonald will all be providing depth and talent. DL will have the only major hole to fill, Laws. Kuntz will be bigger, stronger and more at home at DE. Brown, Hand will hold down the other DE with support from Ethan Johson and Cwynar. NG will be anchored by Ian, but he will loads of help from Omar, Newman, Hafis. Special Teams finally should be an asset. We have a good FG kicker in Walker. Whitacker has shown good ability on KO's. Maust was good while substituting for Price. We have very capable return people.

2. Beat WASHINGTON - He better not lose to Ty after 4 years of rebuilding ND or the media and anti ND folks will go crazy with the CW is worse than Ty biz.
Reason this is achievable>> We have a better level of talent at ND. If you look at both rosters, there are far more 4 and 5 star athletes on ND's roster. Further, if CW cannot out coach Ty next season, the Mark May's of the world will have his head on a platter.

3. No More One Sided Losses - One sided losses tend to put CW in the bucket of Ty and Davie. Lou never got slaughtered like we are making a regular habit of. Even when Brady was here, we received beatdowns from OSU, LSU, UM, USC.
Reasons this is achievable>> For the first couple years that CW was at ND the excuse in the big losses was that ND did not have the speed and talent to stay with the programs like LSU, OSU, USC. Well, there is only ONE program on our regular season schedule that will have us out manned, USC. But, the talent gap between ND and USC will have closed dramatically. Further, if CW is the offensive guru he claims, then after 4 years with these kids that should shine thru.

4. Go Bowling and WIN!!!! - Every ND fan is tired of hearing that we are 0-forever since our last bowl win. Furhter, CW has gotten thumped in both bowls.
Reason this is achievable>> We should finish the season with 3 losses which means no BCS. That is good because we are a year away from whooping the LSU's, Florida's and OSU's of the world. We will end up in a second tier bowl like the Gator. This will pit us against a mid level program which we better start dominating. I actually hope we do NOT end up winning enough to get into a BCS because we tend to get a bad match-up which spells disaster. I want us to wait until 2009 when we will be loaded and be able to dominate. ND cannot afford another BCS debacle where we lose and get battered by the media.

5. Make Coaching Changes over 2008 winter!!!! - Einstein says the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Latina, BYE BYE
Reason this is achievable>> Well this decision is in CW's hands. It is obvious that certain positions are underachieving. OL and special teams are two in particular. We cannot stand pat with underperformers. CW has shown the moxy to make changes in the past, so I think this one is easy.

6. Close out 2008 Recruiting Class!!!! We have the number 1 ranked class and are a fav with several remaining prospects.
Reason this is achievable>> He already has 19 super commits. He only has to add a few pieces at WR and OL. Maybe a RB. I am not even going to hold him accountable if we have another Little incident in this class. Recruiting is soo crazy that I expect someone to de-commit just to make it a typical recruiting season. But, CW must also close on atleast two of our WR prospects and one great OL player to make this class complete. Everything else is just icing on the cake.

7. Top 10 Recruiting Class for 2009!!!!!!! CW will have his hands full filling this class since there is no great season to talk about and kids will see a depth chart filled with youth.
Reason this is achievable>>> Kids should be really excited now that talent has returned to ND. Further, CW has demonstrated that he will play the best play regardless of age. Finally, he will not have to add huge numbers so he should be able to fill the smaller number of spots. This will mean we will not be number one in recruiting, but if we are getting top caliber athletes to fill out holes that is what matters.

8. Demonstrate Player Development!!! In 2005 I think we all thought that CW could elevate players. In 2006 the players did not take the next step. In fact, most would argue that some players level slipped. OL play got worse. In 2007, the play has been very dissapointing. Not just inexperience, but mistake ridden.
Reason this is achievable>>> With about 9-10 starters returning on both sides of the ball, improvement should be very evident. Further, many of these kids have spent atleast 3 years in the program.

9. Show me "NASTY"!!!! Part of showing Nasty is playing hard for your coach and bringing enthusiasm to the field. You have to want to play hard for the coach. There have been some games where the kids absolutely did NOT play for CW this season.
Reason this is achievable>>> When a player is comforable in a system, they can fly around the field and play with aggression. Brown is starting to show that with the D. They are starting to get comfortable which is resulting in aggression. Now, CW must show that his O can do the same. Especially the OL which should be at a point of dominating people next season.

CONCLUSION: If CW achieves all of these goals which are not out of reach by any means it will be evidence that ND is well on its way back to ELITE status. We all gave Charlie the pass on year 3 since Ty put us in such a talent hole, but 4 years is plenty to know where the program is headed. If and I mean IF Charlie has another mediocre season, 7-5 or worse, with a couple blow-out losses and players appearing to play half hearted and sloppy without passion, it is time to move on. This will substantiate that CW is another Faust, not a Davie or Ty. Faust like CW loved ND, was a great recruiter, tended to have soft teams and had some ugly losses. It would do ND and CW best at that point to move on. With the core of talent we will have in 2008 it would not be near as difficult to attract any coach. 3 years ago, Urban wanted no part of this reclamation project. In 2008 there will be great level of talent across the board at ND. Finally, my hope is that CW comes thru with flying colors and we will reach the promise land in 2009 or 2010. Make us proud Charlie!!!!
 

KamaraPolice

Reps Are a Girls BFF
Messages
3,077
Reaction score
297
I saw Mo Crum on Coach to Coast (or something trite like that). He said what surprised him most about this team as that they never quit. He said that it comes from the head coach, that weis never quits, and thats why the team has fight each game, all game. They dont give up. I feel good about next year.

And I also learned Trevor Laws favorite breakfast food is waffles (he didn't mention whether or not he preferred eggos).
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
Kamara,
That is nice to hear, but what do you really expect Mo to say. Reality is that they did quit at UM and were not playing for the first half of Purdue. These game are evidence to the contrary.
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Jones - nice post....

completely agree that at least 8 wins is the only acceptable outcome next year... I would hope that we win those two swing games, as we should be able to do, and really 2 losses would be mildly dissapointing but within acceptable range.

player development is a very good point, although my first reaction was to disagree. Looking back, oline is the obvious culprit, but there were others that leveled off. I think the young guys should really give CW a chance to show that he can develop the talent he is bringing in, so lets see it!

One final note - I really think these guys mean it when they talk about the work ethic and how it stems from Charlie. The guy lives and breathes the team, and although there may still be some mal-contents, I think it impresses the players and works. People talk about how Weis is too professional, not enough motivation. Well the fact is motivation only gets you so far, and what builds the team away from Rocks house is work ethic - its what makes you a 'gym rat' its what makes you a scholar of the system, its what makes people with natural talent into super-natural football players. (Sorry if this is swinging away from your analysis). My point is simply, work harder than anyone else and you garner respect. CW is doing that - and I hope that it really shows in 2008.
 

irish4ever

Well-known member
Messages
3,792
Reaction score
896
Nice analysis. I don't agree that there should be (2) "expected" loss games and (2) "pick um" games. I would think there is only (1) "expected" loss game and (3) "pick um" games. Michigan is going to lose Hart (the heart and soul of that team), plus playing @ ND. To me that game goes to a "pick um" status. USC on the road should definitely go as an "expected" loss, but hopefully the Irish will find a way to prove otherwise!
 

goldandblue

Well-known member
Messages
3,721
Reaction score
419
nice post jonesman, I agree with you on about every point that you made. I just pray that C.W. brings this team up to the level that we all want them to be. I really can't take another bad run of Notre Dame football. I just pray that all the commits come like they said they were. The coaches will have to continue to recruit there asses off until signing day in order to keep the commits there.
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
Irish4ever,
What I meant by pick ums, losses and wins is what the most likely line will be for those games. I trully believe that we have the talent to match up with every team on our schedule except maybe USC. UM talent has slid the last couple years. Let's hope that CW achieves these goals. If he does we will know the future for CW at ND is bright. This is the outcome I know all of us are hoping he achieves. IF he fails in these goals, the University must act and go in a new direction. No need waiting because we do not want the talent pool to slip because of poor on field performance. We would have many coaches clamouring to get the ND job at the end of 2008 since the incoming coach would be taking on a team loaded with talent on both sides of the ball. Hopefully, it does not come to this and I am confident CW will meet and exceed our goals.
 

SoCalDomer

New member
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
412
I can't disagree with much of your analysis, but I don't know that CW will be shown the door if he doesn't accomplish those achievable goals in 2008.

At that point, he will have 6 years leaft on his contract? I don't think they could afford to buy him out of 6 years. One or two maybe, but the money side of this is what might keep him there (assuming he doesn't prove to be successful).

The only out ND could have, was that CW said that if he doesn't win a NC within 5 yrs they should fire him. I don't know what his contract says, but he would have to eat his words pretty hard if they fired him and then claimed they owed him contract money.

Let me clarify that I'm not hoping CW gets fired, I'm just going along with the foresee the future theme of this thread.
 

ACamp1900

Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
Messages
48,947
Reaction score
11,225
Ill be quite frank, if we DON'T win at least eight games next year with a more mature team and that schedule... I'm off the Charles band wagon...

but til then...

ALL ABOARD!!!!


:)
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
Acamp,
I am right there with you on the band wagon. I also think that most of the CW kool-aid drinkers will also realize this once they take a hard look at our schedule.
 

KamaraPolice

Reps Are a Girls BFF
Messages
3,077
Reaction score
297
Acamp,
I am right there with you on the band wagon. I also think that most of the CW kool-aid drinkers will also realize this once they take a hard look at our schedule.

blah, im not even going to respond

no ones rationalizing the bad season; it takes time to build a team.
 

wahoo

New member
Messages
442
Reaction score
26
I would like to see a more consistant defense next year. We give up way to many points in most games. Even the good teams of 2005 & 2006 got toasted too many times. If we ever want to win the NC then we first must run the ball and STOP the run.
 

elkona

New member
Messages
229
Reaction score
9
ND won't win 8 games next season. It starts with the QB troubles.
We should be happy with 7-5 and looking to 2009.
Holtz had one bad season and one OK season before bagging the big one. And don't read so much into the whole "4 and 5 star" recruit thing. Look at Miami's starting QB. That guy was a top recruit 5 years ago and he sucks.
Truth is, the team is bad, we're not competing. So why pump up expectations for 2008? These are not the New York Yankees -- you can't buy talent and win every year. College Football is like the business cycle - up and down, up and down. Just look at the former powerhouses Fla State and Miami -- they stink, but not for forever.
We must be on the way up because we can't go any lower.

P.S. being in a competitive conference would help. The competition in the SEC raises the bar for all of those guys.
 

Master Guns

New member
Messages
497
Reaction score
15
Great post

Great post

Agree with just about everything you said. I do beleive that CW will get another pass, although he should not, next year if they go 7-5 with a warning from the "front office". Then in 2009 its put up or pack your trash.

Man how cool was it when the President of Nebraska just sh#t-canned the AD because the football team was going no where and then brought in the legend himself, Tom Osborne to be the temp AD. That is BALLS!!!
 

SoCalDomer

New member
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
412
Elkona, the difference between Holt's three year rise and Weis' (if we count 2007 as his first with a young team) is that we know Holtz had/has a history of building up college teams, before ND. His success carried over to ND.

Even during Holtz's building years, his offenses could still get first downs. We can't even get first downs.

I obviously want things to turn around. I'm just not buying that we can expect changes in future years. If Weis can't put together an offense that will get first downs, we can have no confidence that he can build up an offense to win (2005-06 don't count since he didn't need to assemble and build those teams' fundamentals).
 

Timugen

MEAT-BAT
Messages
766
Reaction score
48
Elkona, the difference between Holt's three year rise and Weis' (if we count 2007 as his first with a young team) is that we know Holtz had/has a history of building up college teams, before ND. His success carried over to ND.

Even during Holtz's building years, his offenses could still get first downs. We can't even get first downs.

I obviously want things to turn around. I'm just not buying that we can expect changes in future years. If Weis can't put together an offense that will get first downs, we can have no confidence that he can build up an offense to win (2005-06 don't count since he didn't need to assemble and build those teams' fundamentals).


And that is what is scary.

For those of you still drinking the CW Kool-Aid.....it's not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. With the talent we have on this team we should, at the very least, be able to get some first downs.

The future is not bright with the current staff.
 

wahoo

New member
Messages
442
Reaction score
26
And that is what is scary.

For those of you still drinking the CW Kool-Aid.....it's not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. With the talent we have on this team we should, at the very least, be able to get some first downs.

The future is not bright with the current staff.

Boy is that an understatement!!!!! Besides a non-productive offense, we have a defense that gets toasted in just about every game (unless the oposition is playing a walk-on QB).
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
Guys,
I can see the board getting together to discuss some parameters that CW must demonstrate in 2008 or he could be released. As I have discussed in the original message of this thread, there are several things that CW must do in 2008 to demonstrate that ND is not just on a path of some success, but a path back to the ELITE level of college football. As I stated originally, his goals are very achievable, so he better get a passing grade. He is quickly closing in on one of those goals which is close out a great 2008 recruiting class. I am sure he will meet the next goal which is coaching changes. Finally, remember that IF CW does not get us on the victory trail in 2008 and we see further issues, it is time to move on. With the recruits we will have on the team by then, there will be many many coaches interested in taking over a restocked ND program. NOONE wanted the job three years ago because the program was a wreck.
 

mbooch

New member
Messages
271
Reaction score
21
I would like to see a more consistant defense next year. We give up way to many points in most games. Even the good teams of 2005 & 2006 got toasted too many times. If we ever want to win the NC then we first must run the ball and STOP the run.

The part of the team I am LEAST worried about is the defense. They have played with real heart all year, despite the fact that they've gotten zero support from the offense. The one thing they have to work on is thrid down defense, what they call "finishing the series".

Now, frankly, the offense is a different kettle of fish. I see ZERO improvement over the first eight games. By now, SOMETHING should be going right, and too few things are. The pass protection remains deplorable, and the run blocking is sub-adequate. Hopefully, a year to grow and toughen up will help, but, on balance, I'd say the highest priority and biggest question mark remains the O line.
 

mbooch

New member
Messages
271
Reaction score
21
ND won't win 8 games next season. It starts with the QB troubles.
We should be happy with 7-5 and looking to 2009.
Holtz had one bad season and one OK season before bagging the big one. And don't read so much into the whole "4 and 5 star" recruit thing. Look at Miami's starting QB. That guy was a top recruit 5 years ago and he sucks.
Truth is, the team is bad, we're not competing. So why pump up expectations for 2008? These are not the New York Yankees -- you can't buy talent and win every year. College Football is like the business cycle - up and down, up and down. Just look at the former powerhouses Fla State and Miami -- they stink, but not for forever.
We must be on the way up because we can't go any lower.

P.S. being in a competitive conference would help. The competition in the SEC raises the bar for all of those guys.

Gotta a few bobbles in here.

1. Lou Holtz had the best 5-6 year anybody ever had in his first year, not a "bad" year. 5 of those losses came by a total of 14 points. Remember, the last game ND played before Hltz started was the 58-6 drubbing by Miami-Fla.

2. Holtz' second year was good, especially when you consider he lost his starting QB in the first half of the Pitt game, and didn't get him back until the Bowl Game.

3. When will the "conference" talk go away? Why on Earth would a team with its own TV network, and, again, the best schedule in college football even consider joining a conference? Look what it did for Penn State. They lost their eastern identity and recruiting base.

4. That being said, 7-5 will be a disappointment, considering the glitter in the last three recruiting classes. It could happen, though.
 

mbooch

New member
Messages
271
Reaction score
21
Guys,
I can see the board getting together to discuss some parameters that CW must demonstrate in 2008 or he could be released. As I have discussed in the original message of this thread, there are several things that CW must do in 2008 to demonstrate that ND is not just on a path of some success, but a path back to the ELITE level of college football. As I stated originally, his goals are very achievable, so he better get a passing grade. He is quickly closing in on one of those goals which is close out a great 2008 recruiting class. I am sure he will meet the next goal which is coaching changes. Finally, remember that IF CW does not get us on the victory trail in 2008 and we see further issues, it is time to move on. With the recruits we will have on the team by then, there will be many many coaches interested in taking over a restocked ND program. NOONE wanted the job three years ago because the program was a wreck.

Weis has 6 years to go on his contract. I for one, would not be too thrilled to see what buying out the third straight coach would do to the price of tickets, etc. I also don't see the point in making huge coaching changes this winter, unless a special teams wizard is available. Latina is coaching the youngest O line on the field every week, by a long shot, and we certainly aren't at all sure the light hitting routine this summer, that obviously did not prepare the unit for the season, was his idea. I've heard it was WEIS, drawing on his pro background, that decided on this startegy. On the other hand, CORWIN BROWN has been the star of the staff this year, and I look forward to seeing what his units can do when they get more than 97 seconds of rest between assignments. Basically, I think the tale of 2008 will be written by how well the offense matures in the off season. This is Weis' specialty, so we should see marked improvement.
 

Timugen

MEAT-BAT
Messages
766
Reaction score
48
I also don't see the point in making huge coaching changes this winter, unless a special teams wizard is available. Latina is coaching the youngest O line on the field every week, by a long shot, and we certainly aren't at all sure the light hitting routine this summer, that obviously did not prepare the unit for the season, was his idea.


Latina needs to go, period. The O-line has sucked since he's been here. It's actually gotten progressively worse over the last 3 seasons.

Yes this year's OL is young, but when we are 8 games into the season and they look just as horrendous as they did in game 1 then that is a coaching problem. These guys don't just look bad - they look like they don't even deserve to be in a Div I-A game. That is a coaching issue when your whole friggin line looks like that and are showing no signs of improvement after 8 games.
 

mbooch

New member
Messages
271
Reaction score
21
Tim...

I'd be more inclined to agree with you, except for two things.

1. I've checked around, and, with one fifth year seniior and four sophomores (to football) this is easily the youngest offensive line around. That isn't Latina's fault. Frankly, it's Ty willingham's fault for mailing in his last two recruiting seasons.

2. The not-ready-for-prime- time appearance of the unit is likely the result of not enough hard hitting going into the season. That's a "pro" habit (not doing a lot of hitting in practice). And, since Latina has spent most of his career in the college ranks, it is likely that that decision was CHARLEY WEIS' baby.

Nobody is saying that this o line is acceptable. I'm only saying that it's not right to reflexively blame Latine.
 

SoCalDomer

New member
Messages
4,954
Reaction score
412
Latina is coaching the youngest O line on the field every week, by a long shot, and we certainly aren't at all sure the light hitting routine this summer, that obviously did not prepare the unit for the season, was his idea. I've heard it was WEIS, drawing on his pro background, that decided on this startegy.

Here's what I don't understand about the non-hitting. If Weis said no hitting, wouldn't all of his asst coaches pause and say. "What!?! No hitting!?! Charlie, you do understand that most of these guys have never been hit the way they're going to be hit this year? You realize that most of these O-linemen have never taken on linebackers and D-linemen this strong or this fast? If you don't let us have these guys hitting, there's no way we can get them ready!"

Latina is a proven OL coach with 25 years in college. Haywood has 17 yrs coaching experience, coached RB's at major college programs and played at ND himself. Everyone except Parmalee and Powlus has coached (both of them played) at the college level. And I'm sure that every one of those programs hit and had full speed practices.

I don't care how iron fisted Weis may be, if you have all of your coaches telling you you're wrong about not hitting, including the guy you just took a risk on in making him your def coordinator, I think you would listen.

So I don't get how Weis is the only one to blame for the non-hitting, practicing in shorts and less than full speed practices. And I don't understand how the coaching staff could agree to it.
 
Last edited:

Timugen

MEAT-BAT
Messages
766
Reaction score
48
1. I've checked around, and, with one fifth year seniior and four sophomores (to football) this is easily the youngest offensive line around. That isn't Latina's fault. Frankly, it's Ty willingham's fault for mailing in his last two recruiting seasons.


Put down the kool-aid and stop making excuses. Your claim about the uniqueness of our OL's youth is simply false. After spending all of 5 minutes looking through depth charts:

Alabama: 1 senior, 1, junior, 3 sophomores
Auburn: 2 juniors, 3 TRUE FRESHMEN
Georgia: 2 seniors, 3 freshmen

Keep in mind, these are not the most extreme examples. I looked at the depth charts of about 6 or 7 teams and these were the ones very close to ours. The thing that should bother you as an ND fan (as I have stated in other threads) is not that our players are being outperformed, it's the mind-boggling disparity that there is in performance.

Those three teams I mentioned aren't exactly struggling. We look as if we don't even deserve to be on the field. As for not hitting during camp - fine.....but why are they not one bit better on the line in game 8 than they were in game 1? It's time to take off the homer glasses (I've been wearing them all season, but last weekend was the proverbial straw) and stop making excuses and recognize that something is wrong with the coaching.
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
Latina needs to go, period.... Yes this year's OL is young, but when we are 8 games into the season and they look just as horrendous as they did in game 1 then that is a coaching problem.... That is a coaching issue when your whole friggin line looks like that and are showing no signs of improvement after 8 games.

You keep saying that you have seen NO improvement on the O line. But you must not be watching very carefully. While I agree that they have made very little progress in the running game, they have made TONS of progress in protecting the Quarterback. Sure, we are still giving up more sacks than we should. But part of that has been the QBs (Clausen in particular) holding on to the ball too long. I'm a run first, pass second kind of guy, so I am livid at how poor the offensive line has been. But they HAVE made some progress, from the opener to now.
 

Timugen

MEAT-BAT
Messages
766
Reaction score
48
You keep saying that you have seen NO improvement on the O line. But you must not be watching very carefully. While I agree that they have made very little progress in the running game, they have made TONS of progress in protecting the Quarterback. Sure, we are still giving up more sacks than we should. But part of that has been the QBs (Clausen in particular) holding on to the ball too long. I'm a run first, pass second kind of guy, so I am livid at how poor the offensive line has been. But they HAVE made some progress, from the opener to now.


You're splitting hairs. How acceptable is the amount of progress that they have made? We are still 119 out of 119 in almost every offensive category. Not only are we dead last, but we're pushing historical, record-setting dead last.

I don't expect the coaching staff to turn them into world-beaters over 8 weeks, but come on. Has the pass protection "improved?" Yes. But look at where we started. We still can't pick up a blitz, and I'm not talking about all the "exotic" and "complex" blitzes that GT threw at us that we used as excuses in game 1. We still can't pick up a blitz. Some of that falls on the QB, but a lot of that also falls on the OL. Yes Clausen holds on to the ball too long (I've said that in several other threads,) but when you have a defensive huddle at the QB before he even completes his drop that's on the OL.

Being a "run first guy" you should be even more disgusted. When we try to rush there is no push at all at the LOS. Our line gets pushed back a couple of yards.

I'm not saying we should be out there winning every game, but when we're sitting here 8 games into the season and seeing no improvement of any significance then there is something wrong with the coaching.

It's not lack of experience - there are other teams with similarly inexperienced lines doing just fine.

It's not lack of talent - Weis is doing such a great job recruiting and these are "his" guys, less Sully, on the line.

It is a case of the coaching staff coming up short, and the biggest indicator of that is the lack of any improvement over 8 games (almost a whole season.)

You can grasp at whatever little morsel you choose to try to claim improvement, but the fact of the matter is that we look as inept on offense today as we did the first day of the season. Our OL still can't protect, still can't block, and still can't get a push.

And once again, other teams are doing (much) better than us with similarly experienced players on the OL, and CW is the King of Recruiting so it's not a lack of talent.
 

jonesman

Tommy Rees is my man
Messages
1,159
Reaction score
182
Guys,
When it comes to our O-Line play it has plain and simply regressed in the last two years. Our very experienced line in 2006 under performed. They were extremely poor on run blocking and Quinn was getting hit way too often. Yes, we have a youthful line, but these kids are not being physical. That is coaching a kid to play with aggression. I cannot see us getting worse, so it is time for a change. We need a guy who will bring anger and passion to these kids. When Lou had his dominating lines, those kids played with aggressiveness and an attitude. Lou would just plain and simple run the ball down your throat when you knew it was coming. That is ATTITUDE!!!!!!
 

Wham

Banned
Messages
396
Reaction score
38
You can have attitude when you are confident in the plays you are running. I have no access to game film after they are over, but on more than one replay on failed pass plays, I see no receivers coming open. On one play, 3 receivers were witin 10 yards of each other, covered by 6 defenders. Poorly designed plays.

When the defense knows you are going to pass all game...

I maintain that the "offensive" (pun intended) problem is CW's "offensive" scheme, which makes boys out of men. No "go-to" plays. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Impossible to execute when no hitting at practice and no reps. Combine that with poorly designed pass plays, and everyone looks bad.

Special teams are still a joke. One or two guys (was it the same guy?) made some nice open field tackles on the punting team, but it was the punt return team that gave SC the ball deep, early in the game. Instant momentum crusher.

That is all about coaching.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

old timer
Messages
5,125
Reaction score
409
Put down the kool-aid and stop making excuses. Your claim about the uniqueness of our OL's youth is simply false. After spending all of 5 minutes looking through depth charts:

Alabama: 1 senior, 1, junior, 3 sophomores
Auburn: 2 juniors, 3 TRUE FRESHMEN
Georgia: 2 seniors, 3 freshmen

Actually, your numbers are wrong due to redshirting.

Georgia is actually:
2 FR
1 SO
2 5th

I think you will find the same thing with the other teams. When ND says Frosh, they always mean Frosh. When Other schools use the terms they count a RS-FR as a Freshman.

Georgia STILL has 2 Frosh on the line...but they are also playing 2 5th years.

They have 5 guys above Soph level...not bad, we have 3.
 
Top