Lower academic standards at ND

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I personally feel that ND should lower its academic standards for athletes. Not too much, but just a little. I fail to see how allowing a few students in with lower scores would hurt the university as a whole. Let's be honest, these kids are not there to be the next nobel prize winner. They are, however, expected to be top quality athletes. How many of them are being tracked after graduation for success in different fields aside from the NFL or some other sport? I'm all for standards, especially doing things by the book, but maybe it's time to write a new chapter and provide what every fan wants to see, the best.

(Can't wait to be put over the grills on this one)

 

[notredomer23]

hey if my sister could get in, anyone can. also i maintain a 4.4 gpa and i play sports all year around(soccer, bball, and baseball) so dont tell me they have to lower the standards for athletes

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Cool, football is just just one big moneymaker for everyone except the athletes. I understand they are provided an education, but it hardly compares with the millions brought in. In fact, I think athletes should be paid a stipend, just like at USC. (another thread for that in future).

 

[Irishknight1023]

Hell no i pride our university in doing it the right way. It's college not pop warner, you have to earn a degree here. It's not like Florida or Miami where we're gonna let you take Nintendo 101 because we want to sign 1000 kids on signing day and drop players scholarships every year. Once again we do it the right way, did you not watch Costos Now he had a whole thing about this, go watch it.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Up both your arses. I thought it would be a good discussion topic. I don't know if we should or not, but its better than another political one...

 

[notredomer23]

Up both your arses. I thought it would be a good discussion topic. I don't know if we should or not, but its better than another political one...

Yeah im really sick of Newt Geinrich thread and Anyone think on the other site

 

[RI Domer]

Keep the standards . ND has been this way for so many years it would degrade the history to change academic standards. (whether or not they did it for Lou Holtz.) Let those kids go somewhere else. Stanford succeeds every now and again as does ND. I take more pride when they win knowing these kids have a tougher fight to fight. ND alums never leave a bad mark on the NCAA or pros, that is a biproduct of high standards.

 

[Freeman Ara]

I think lowering the academic standards to allow athl;etes in is not a great idea. First, its one of the things that ND prides itself on and is one of its major selling points, being able to run a successful program and offer a quality education. Its just one of the qualities that makes ND special and different. Second, I think that by recruiting guys that do well enough to qualify academically kind of filters out the bad seed guys. Typically if your an elite athlete and pulling good grades it shows that you are dedicated and mature enough to handle high expectations on the field and in the class room at a great university.Thirdly, I don't believe that these guys are held up to the same strict admissions standards that the general student populous is to receive admittance, if these guys are boarderline grade wise but can prove that they will put in the time and effort to get the degree then it becomes a judgement call on the shoulders of both the admissions office and the coaching staff, correct me if I am wrong on that.

 

[Irishknight1023]

nicely said

 

[TexasDomer]

Notre Dame is a university, one of the best in the country. It should make no concessions for athletes that it would not make for other students with special gifts to offer the community (artists with weak math SATs, math wizards with weak verbal SATs, students who overcome incredible obstacles, etc.).

What makes it special is that it doesn't make these concessions. It takes chances on a few students every year; some of them just happen to be athletes.

Weis said it best at his press conference when he was hired, when he said that he didn't think it was a limitation to have really smart players on his team.

 

[leprechaun4life]

We can all agree that Notre Dame is different compared to all other universities, and because it is different, it is more special. Notre Dame's tradition for years has been the rigor of academics, while accomplishing excellence on the field. Other schools have had national championships and heisman winners, but Notre Dame stands apart due to the distinct academic discipline needed. If Notre Dame lowered academic standards in order to get lazy athletes that don't care about education, then it would be no different than Ohio State and the other "football factories."

If all the previous coaches could win national championships and if Weis thinks he can win without lowering the standards, then I see no reason to lower the standards just to get an extra Dwayne Jarrett or Maurice Clarett.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Not even OJ Mayo naise?
I figured the responses would be 10 to 1 in favor of not changing. That is not only surprising for a bunch of superfans who die over each recruit, but also refreshing.

 

[Shark Attack]

I like being able to say that Notre Dame has class above the prison schools, personally. It may hurt us as a team, but there are other things more important. Most plays don't declare for the draft early as a result of the dedication to academics, I think, and even Darius who did, graduated. Just my .02

 

[portlaNDgal]

My view is that they already have lower standards for athletes, in that they don't have to compete with the general applicant pool. The University sets aside a couple hundred slots for student athletes each year, and they have to meet minimum criteria to be accepted. Our minimum criteria are just higher than most universities. ND's admissions process, like a lot of universities, is complex.

Throw all the athletes into the general applicant pool, and many would not be accepted. The University gives a break to legacy applicants and probably other groups too that we're not aware of. It took almost until 1990 or a little later for them to go to a gender-blind application process, since they had quotas for female students. Even in the late 80's there was resentment among some male students, because they saw some female students as having "taken" a spot that their buddy might have filled in a gender-blind admission.

Good topic.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Thanks, I honestly don't know how I feel about it. It kinda pains me to see alot of recruits pass us up. Then again, I am a man of principle...mostly.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

According to Lou Somogyi of Blue & Gold Illustrated, the old saying goes: When ND is losing, the fans blame the high academic standards & when ND is winning, the fans brag about the high academic standards. I think the fellas at BGI have done a pretty good job at addressing this debate in the past & their conclusion is that the standards should remain where they are. I side w/ them b/c they are also all graduates of Notre Dame.

Post-Holtz, I can't think of many student-athletes that didn't qualify for admission as much as they just wanted to attend a different school (i.e., football factory). These guys are usually gifted athletes that have the NFL in mind as their profession even though they have the academic record to gain admittance to Notre Dame. Remember, there are still good educations to be earned at the football factories, if they want it. If not, they can cruise through the basics & the electives to bide their time until draft day. At ND, standards are higher & much more is expected.

I work w/ a guy who played at Penn St. He had come down to the Nittany Lions & a couple of other state schools during the recruiting process. He wanted to major in engineering (I think?) or something that required extra commitment on behalf of the player. The coaches at the other schools tried to persuade him to shy away from this particular major, telling him it was too hard especially on top of football. Joe Pa told him if that's what he truly wanted to do, he'd make sure the proper tutors were available & that he'd have every opportunity to earn his desired degree while excelling on the football field.

That's what I respect about ND. Not only can the athletes run the ball, pass the ball & kick the ball....they can also autograph the ball! Just a joke, but you get my drift.

 

[portlaNDgal]

Thanks, I honestly don't know how I feel about it. It kinda pains me to see alot of recruits pass us up. Then again, I am a man of principle...mostly.

I agree it's painful sometimes. T. Rice was at ND when I was, so I my perception of what the university could accept is colored somewhat.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Yeah im really sick of Newt Geinrich thread and Anyone think on the other site

Hey, didn't you start the "Anyone think..." thread on the other site?

 

[irishfan]

When I read the title of this thread, I was worried because I thought it was an article about Notre Dame lowering their academic standards, so no I would not like to see ND lower their standards. Weis states in his book that there are enough smart football players, but that he just has to go all over the country to get them.

 

[Junkhead]

I don't think the standards should be lowered. I'd rather have the reputation for overall personal development than a "football factory". It makes victory even sweeter.

 

[MirageSmack]

Agreed. Do not lower standards. I agree with portlandgals post, they already get a break.

Why is it the top women athletes are almost always the top academic performers as well? Why can't the guys do the same?

I am for other schools raising their standards closer to ours!

 

[ACamp1900]

Stone, I can't believe the words that came out of your mouth in your first post... I would rather lose the right way than win the tOSU way, simple as that. When SC lowered their standards recently they regained their swagger and lost a lot of respect in the mean time.

basically

F
U
S
C


and all those who forgot this is NOT professional Football.

 

[ACamp1900]

Agreed. Do not lower standards. I agree with portlandgals post, they already get a break.

Why is it the top women athletes are almost always the top academic performers as well? Why can't the guys do the same?

I am for other schools raising their standards closer to ours!

reps

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

reps

I was being more provocative than coming out strongly in favor of it. I agree with an earlier post, I do bitch when we suck. Although I don't brag when we win, about the academics at least. I guess a part of me believes that you get out what you put into education. I don't necessarily give too much props to education in and of itself. There are a whole lot of people with MBA's that wreck companies. I think if you are talented, smart, and possess good instincts, that is half the battle. That said, good engineering, computer science, and medical schools are much more important in terms of quality. Then again, all I have is the perspective from the business world. So what do I know.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I personally feel that ND should lower its academic standards for athletes. Not too much, but just a little. I fail to see how allowing a few students in with lower scores would hurt the university as a whole. Let's be honest, these kids are not there to be the next nobel prize winner. They are, however, expected to be top quality athletes. How many of them are being tracked after graduation for success in different fields aside from the NFL or some other sport? I'm all for standards, especially doing things by the book, but maybe it's time to write a new chapter and provide what every fan wants to see, the best.

(Can't wait to be put over the grills on this one)

ND already has much lower standards for Athletes...just look at the scores of the incoming FB players.

That being said, the real question is this: should they be lowered even further.

I waver. For the moment I say "no."

 

[notredomer23]

didnt rhema get a 13 or 18 on his aact

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

If OJ Mayo had the grades, would we want him to go to ND? Probably on stay a year or two at most. I would say no.

 

[tgolden]

heck no. the standards should stay as they are. they aren't that impossible to begin with for athletes. athletes don't have to have the same levels as the core of the student body anyhow, they just have to meet certain minimun standards. and if they can't meet those minimum standards, they won't be able to pass at ND. athletes get extra tutoring and get first class choices, but they still have to go to classes with classmates who got perfect scores on SATs and what not. ND is what it is because it doesn't lower standards too much. it doesn't allow athletes to stay eligable as undergrads taking 2 classes, one of which is the history of rock and roll.

also, I think lowering the standards would be a slight insult to the athletes who met the standards and did just fine.

 

[tgolden]

didnt rhema get a 13 or 18 on his aact

I don't think so. definitely not a 13 anyhow. the lowest score i've heard of for an incoming football player is an 18, and I don't think rhema was one of those guys. that being said, rhema definitely took advantage of the opportunity at ND, graduating and taking grad classes. there is more to standards than standardized test scores. they also look at what classes guys took in high school, basically a strength of class schedule type thing.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I don't think so. definitely not a 13 anyhow. the lowest score i've heard of for an incoming football player is an 18, and I don't think rhema was one of those guys. that being said, rhema definitely took advantage of the opportunity at ND, graduating and taking grad classes. there is more to standards than standardized test scores. they also look at what classes guys took in high school, basically a strength of class schedule type thing.

I think 18 is the minimum at ND. I have some recollection that it was 19...but I am getting old.