2016 Presidential Horse Race

[BleedBlueGold]

I'm actually surprised there isn't more from supporters applauding him for taking advantage of the system. "It's not illegal. It's just what good businessmen do. You wouldn't understand. #Trump #MakeAmericaGreatAgain."

I never said I didn't. Wizards just assumed that I had not, because I didn't agree with his foot stomping outrage.

Trump held campaign events at Trump facilities and utilized Trump products. Those facilities and companies rightly should be paid for their products and services. It's not a bad idea for him to be holding a campaign event at a venue that is opulent, and has his name all over it. Subliminally, it probably causes people to equate his name with success. And that's what his campaign is selling.

LOL...

 

[wizards8507]

Moose, my man... Trump is a bad dude.

 

[GATTACA!]

That's not the point. He has set up an infrastructure that will make the PAC money in the general go directly to him. It's not like the Republican PAC money is just gonna sit on a table somewhere. It will get spent in the general. Unfortunately for them, Trump has set up a system where $1 of every $5 ends up in his own pocket.

Right but wasn't the point of the first part of the article that his fundraising numbers are extremely low? If his game was to pull 20% of his fundraising dollars wouldn't he be doing everything he could to fundraise as much as possible?

Also if you don't think at least 20% of whatever Hillary has left in her war chest won't find a way into her bank account after the election I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[kmoose]

Moose, my man... Trump is a bad dude.

I'm not voting for Trump. I've been VERY clear that I'm not voting for him. I just want to see an honest debate without people twisting everything that happens. GoIrish makes a very good point that the opulence will not play well with the poorer voters. But that's not the audience he is playing to at those functions, now is it?

 

[kmoose]

That's not the point. He has set up an infrastructure that will make the PAC money in the general go directly to him. It's not like the Republican PAC money is just gonna sit on a table somewhere. It will get spent in the general. Unfortunately for them, Trump has set up a system where $1 of every $5 ends up in his own pocket.

I'm not sure I completely understand what you are saying here, but PAC money is different from campaign money. PACs may donate, or not, to campaigns. Campaigns cannot spend PAC money that was not donated to them. The Republican PAC can just choose to pay for their own goods and services, in support of defeating Clinton, rather than give their money to Trump's campaign.

 

[MJ12666]

I have read the article in question and have a couple of observations:
1. The article is coming from an organization that I believe has been anti Trump from the start so you need to keep that in mind.
2. The article implies that Trump has a plan in place to automatically transferring 20% of contributions to his personal businesses. This is not supported by any evidence presented in the article other then by author extrapolating the data included in the most recent filing over the future life of the campaign.
3. The amounts that can be reimbursed are specified in the campaign finance laws which is why they are included in the report filed by the campaign. If the reimbursements are illegal as some of you have implied then he will be in serious trouble. You may not like Trump but he is not a stupid man so it is highly unlikely the reimbursements do not conform with the law.

 

[wizards8507]

1. The article is coming from an organization that I believe has been anti Trump from the state so you need to keep that in mind.

The fact that rational-thinking people on the right and the left are against Trump should tell you something.

2. The article implies that Trump has a plan in place to automatically transferring 20% of contributions to his personal businesses. This is not supported by any evidence presented in the article other then by author extrapolating the data included in the most recent filing over the future life of the campaign.

No such thing was ever implied.

3. The amounts that can be reimbursed are specified in the campaign finance laws which is why they are included in the report filed by the campaign. If the reimbursements are illegal as some of you have implied then he will be in serious trouble. You may not like Trump but he is not a stupid man so it is highly unlikely the reimbursements do not conform with the law.

Nobody ever claimed he broke any laws, but he's still being dishonest as fuck. Politifact busted him on this months ago. His entire campaign has been built on the lie that he's above corruption because he's self-funding, but he's never been self-funding. The vast majority of money he's put up for his campaign has been in the form of loans. Now he's paying himself back, meaning he was never self-funding in the first place. No laws were broken, but he won the primary on a platform, such as it were, of lies.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m.../donald-trump-self-funding-his-campaign-sort/

 

[GoldenDome]

Ouch, this one will sting Mr. Trump. Although I am no fan of attack ads, this one was very well put together by its creators.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/I1wQ0ToQDtU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MJ12666]

The fact that rational-thinking people on the right and the left are against Trump should tell you something.


No such thing was ever implied.


Nobody ever claimed he broke any laws, but he's still being dishonest as fuck. Politifact busted him on this months ago. His entire campaign has been built on the lie that he's above corruption because he's self-funding, but he's never been self-funding. The vast majority of money he's put up for his campaign has been in the form of loans. Now he's paying himself back, meaning he was never self-funding in the first place. No laws were broken, but he won the primary on a platform, such as it were, of lies.

Is Donald Trump self-funding his campaign? Sort of | PolitiFact

There are also rational people who are going to vote for Trump.

Re-read the article. It says "no one wants $1 out of $5 that he donates going to fill the coffers at Mar-a-Lago." The author is clearly extrapolating the period covered by the filing over the entire campaign. This may or may not be accurate. We will need to wait for the campaign to end and a final tally of all campaign expenditures to determine if the $1 in $5 is accurate.

Again, on point 3 I was specifically referring to The National Review article. There is nothing in the article (which I believe you linked to) which indicates that Trump as broken any campaign laws. That is all I commenting on, not any of his activities that may may indicate that he is dishonest.

 

[Redbar]

No one is excusing it. I think it's hysterical that you are outraged by it. It's like a 2 year old crying that the rain is wet.

The great idealist has gone pragmatic.

 

[irishfan]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/23/trum...oans-to-his-campaign-trump-finance-chief.html

Donald Trump has forgiven $50 million in loans he made to his campaign, and fundraising efforts have kicked into high gear, his national finance chairman told CNBC on Thursday.

"[Trump] loaned $50 million to the campaign. He's now forgiven that loan. So that is a contribution," said Steve Mnuchin. "[Trump] has also said he will contribute significantly more money."

"We just forgave the loan this week," Mnuchin added in a "Squawk Box" interview.

So which is it? He has given a lot of his own money, so I don't really have an issue which his campaign team eating at a Trump restaurant and paying for it as opposed to eating elsewhere. I'm sure it hasn't all been that innocent, but some of these articles are trying to act like he's turned a profit off of campaign donations.

It seems to me that Trump just told his team to spend on the campaign at his companies whenever possible. Little scummy, but oh well. So was Bernie flying first class on campaign money. So is Hillary in pretty much every sense. It amazes me that the media is covering this more than the DNC hack.

 

[MJ12666]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/23/trum...oans-to-his-campaign-trump-finance-chief.html



So which is it? He has given a lot of his own money, so I don't really have an issue which his campaign team eating at a Trump restaurant and paying for it as opposed to eating elsewhere. I'm sure it hasn't all been that innocent, but some of these articles are trying to act like he's turned a profit off of campaign donations.

It seems to me that Trump just told his team to spend on the campaign at his companies whenever possible. Little scummy, but oh well. So was Bernie flying first class on campaign money. So is Hillary in pretty much every sense. It amazes me that the media is covering this more than the DNC hack.

I am just curious. What exactly do you find a "little scummy"? Campaign laws are specific about what can be reimbursed and at what rates. This all needs to be accounted for and if violated can lead to prosecution if a violation occurs. I have not read any article (and maybe I missed it) that he specifically requires his campaign team to eat at a Trump restaurant either. If an article specifically states this could you please provide a link I really would like to read it. Thanks.

 

[pkt77242]

I am just curious. What exactly do you find a "little scummy"? Campaign laws are specific about what can be reimbursed and at what rates. This all needs to be accounted for and if violated can lead to prosecution if a violation occurs. I have not read any article (and maybe I missed it) that he specifically requires his campaign team to eat at a Trump restaurant either. If an article specifically states this could you please provide a link I really would like to read it. Thanks.

So you think it is just one big coincidence that many of his events are at his hotels, etc.?

I highly doubt he is breaking the law, but I would also be very surprised if he wasn't holding the events at his place on purpose (both due to the payments his properties get for it and due to the free publicity they properties get from it as well).

 

[irishfan]

I am just curious. What exactly do you find a "little scummy"? Campaign laws are specific about what can be reimbursed and at what rates. This all needs to be accounted for and if violated can lead to prosecution if a violation occurs. I have not read any article (and maybe I missed it) that he specifically requires his campaign team to eat at a Trump restaurant either. If an article specifically states this could you please provide a link I really would like to read it. Thanks.

I've just assumed it based on where his money was spent. There's money going to his son's winery and to Trump Water. I can't find the article where all his expenses to his companies were laid out, but seeing things like the wine or water in there made me think he was just choosing to spend funds through his own companies whenever possible.

Here is something from CNN saying how it's legal:

Trump directs nearly one-fifth of his money to his own businesses - CNNPolitics.com

What Trump is doing is legal: He is required to pay fair market value for the goods and services enjoyed by his campaign -- otherwise, they would have to be considered in-kind contributions. For those items, Trump would be, essentially, donating them to himself. Yet every time Trump uses one of his planes to drop in on hangars in swing states, his official campaign will be funneling dollars back to a Trump-backed entity.

 

[wizards8507]

I am just curious. What exactly do you find a "little scummy"? Campaign laws are specific about what can be reimbursed and at what rates. This all needs to be accounted for and if violated can lead to prosecution if a violation occurs. I have not read any article (and maybe I missed it) that he specifically requires his campaign team to eat at a Trump restaurant either. If an article specifically states this could you please provide a link I really would like to read it. Thanks.

The part that I find scummy is his insistence that he's self-funding. A huge number of his supporters love the idea that he wasn't supported by PACs and big donors in the primary. They viewed this as an integrity move, an insurance policy that he can't be bought. But all of the self-funding he's done is nonsense because he's now paying himself back.

 

[calvegas04]

Moose, my man... Trump is a bad dude.

Have fun with your Hillary

 

[kmoose]

The part that I find scummy is his insistence that he's self-funding. A huge number of his supporters love the idea that he wasn't supported by PACs and big donors in the primary. They viewed this as an integrity move, an insurance policy that he can't be bought.

Can you show me the big donor he is going to be beholden to?


https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?&id=N00023864

But all of the self-funding he's done is nonsense because he's now paying himself back.

Please. You're a finance guy. You know better! He's buying products and services from his own companies. If I buy $1,000 worth of Trump water, I'm not putting $1,000 in Donald Trump's pocket. He only makes a portion of that. Tell me what his margins are, on the products and services that his campaign is buying, and then MAYBE you will have something.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Sure, all that opulence makes him appear as a man of the people. I'm sure that plays well for all the mouthbreathers who think he is out for the little guy.

What do you call the supporters at a Hillary rally where she's wearing a $13,000 outfit and lecturing people on income inequality?

 

[GoIrish41]

What do you call the supporters at a Hillary rally where she's wearing a $13,000 outfit and lecturing people on income inequality?

Show me a photo of this $13,000 pantsuit or stop making things up.

 

[MJ12666]

I've just assumed it based on where his money was spent. There's money going to his son's winery and to Trump Water. I can't find the article where all his expenses to his companies were laid out, but seeing things like the wine or water in there made me think he was just choosing to spend funds through his own companies whenever possible.

Here is something from CNN saying how it's legal:

Trump directs nearly one-fifth of his money to his own businesses - CNNPolitics.com

Thanks. I read the CNN article. If you owned these businesses and needed to buy these services, why would you not spend the money elsewhere if you could buy them from your own business? As noted in the CNN article he cannot inflate the prices as that would be illegal. I see nothing wrong with this. What would be interesting, which has not been disclosed in any of the articles, is are his expenditures out of line with that spent by other presidential candidates during the general election.

 

[GoIrish41]

Can you show me the big donor he is going to be beholden to?


https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/contrib.php?&id=N00023864




Please. You're a finance guy. You know better! He's buying products and services from his own companies. If I buy $1,000 worth of Trump water, I'm not putting $1,000 in Donald Trump's pocket. He only makes a portion of that. Tell me what his margins are, on the products and services that his campaign is buying, and then MAYBE you will have something.

Google "markup on bottled water". I'm on my phone and can't link. He might be putting $999 in his pocket.

 

[kmoose]

Google "markup on bottled water". I'm on my phone and can't link. He might be putting $999 in his pocket.

I did.......... and the outrageous markups are compared to tap water. Not a net cost of producing bottled water.

 

[MJ12666]

The part that I find scummy is his insistence that he's self-funding. A huge number of his supporters love the idea that he wasn't supported by PACs and big donors in the primary. They viewed this as an integrity move, an insurance policy that he can't be bought. But all of the self-funding he's done is nonsense because he's now paying himself back.

Well he just forgave a $50M loan he made to the campaign. Compared to HRC he is an angel. Did you know that the Clinton's reported $15M millions in charitable contributions from 2007 - 2014 with virtually all of it (99%) going to the Clinton Foundation. How did the foundation spend this money? How about paying the salaries of key campaign staffers from her 2008 failed campaign who were hired by the foundation and I am sure they were only working on foundation issues. After announcing her candidacy, surprise, they all resigned from the foundation and joined her new campaign. Now the kicker is the Clinton's get an immediate tax deduction for the charitable contribution, which she would not have gotten if the contributions were made to her campaign. Basically you (assuming you pay federal income taxes) essentially helped finance her campaign whether you wanted to or not. Pretty slick.

 

[GoIrish41]

I did.......... and the outrageous markups are compared to tap water. Not a net cost of producing bottled water.

Bottled spring water is collected from a spring, put in a bottle and sold. Not a lot of overhead.

 

[Irish YJ]

Here's a brief blog post by Alan Jacobs:

Great article Whiskey. I've been saying similar for a while.
Status quo or inches for 4 years is only pumping more water in a balloon that is already overfilled. Just a matter of time...

Moose, my man... Trump is a bad dude.

I don't see any Trump lovers. All I see are Rs who know Trump is an Idiot, making fun of Ds who think HRC is a better alternative. Both are in the dictionary under scum, or in Buster's case, Wikipedia..

The fact that rational-thinking people on the right and the left are against Trump should tell you something.

Sorta like the rational people on the right and left who think HRC is a steaming hot lying turd?

The part that I find scummy is his insistence that he's self-funding. A huge number of his supporters love the idea that he wasn't supported by PACs and big donors in the primary. They viewed this as an integrity move, an insurance policy that he can't be bought. But all of the self-funding he's done is nonsense because he's now paying himself back.

What is as or more disgusting is HRC's supporters who think she is honest, or feel that her email server scandal is just an overreaction and didn't put the US at risk..

Have fun with your Hillary

Yep.. The sad sad thing, is that when HRC beats Trump, they will actually see victory, instead of thinking holy shit we just elected a ...... fill in the blank...

Show me a photo of this $13,000 pantsuit or stop making things up.

It's right here.... crazy sexy cool isn't it? Sorry, it was 12k and some change...
The surprising strategy behind Hillary Clinton’s designer wardrobe | New York Post

 

[MJ12666]

Google "markup on bottled water". I'm on my phone and can't link. He might be putting $999 in his pocket.

He can only pay fair market value so even if the mark-up is high many people prefer bottled water and he can only charge the campaign the fair market value of the product. He cannot inflate the price or it would be illegal. If you were supplying the water to the staff why buy it from another company when you have a company that can supply it? Also from the article I read he spent all of $400 on bottle water.

 

[irish4ever]

What do you call the supporters at a Hillary rally where she's wearing a $13,000 outfit and lecturing people on income inequality?

That freakin' liberal money hungry biatch should be in an orange jump suit with shackles on. Fv<k that skank!

 

[GoIrish41]

He can only pay fair market value so even if the mark-up is high many people prefer bottled water and he can only charge the campaign the fair market value of the product. He cannot inflate the price or it would be illegal. If you were supplying the water to the staff why buy it from another company when you have a company that can supply it? Also from the article I read he spent all of $400 on bottle water.

When the markup is 300% when you buy a bottle of water at 7-11, it is almost all profit. What is fair market on Trump water? Has to be up there because it is the best water in the world ... trust me. People love it, I can promise you that.

You buy it from another company because of appearances. The optics of him paying himself for his products are terrible.

 

[Irish YJ]

That freakin' liberal money hungry biatch should be in an orange jump suit with shackles on. Fv<k that skank!

Hillary Clinton’s New York primary victory speech in April focused on topics including income inequality, job creation and helping people secure their retirement. It was a clear attempt to position herself as an everywoman.

But an everywoman she is not — she gave the speech in a $12,495 Giorgio Armani tweed jacket.

Rumor has it that she bought it at a shop in Trump Tower...

 

[MJ12666]

When the markup is 300% when you buy a bottle of water at 7-11, it is almost all profit. What is fair market on Trump water? Has to be up there because it is the best water in the world ... trust me. People love it, I can promise you that.

You buy it from another company because of appearances. The optics of him paying himself for his products are terrible.

Trying to talk to you about anything that has to do with finance or economics is like talking to the wall and while I seem to have a lot of patience today as evidenced by my initial attempt to explain this issue to you even I have my limits. So I suggest you get an accounting book and look up how to determine the fair market value of an asset yourself. Or better yet stay financially ignorant for all I care. We are talking about $400!!!!! so who really cares.

If you want to learn how to really take advantage of the system, see my post earlier today that describes how taxpayers are subsidizing the Clinton campaign via income taxes. There we are talking about real money, probably in the area of $5M.