2016 Presidential Horse Race

[NDinL.A.]

Why did you write he "denigrates Hispanics"?

Because he does.

You guys bang on Trump for being an asshole to ethnic groups, and then you turn around and act the same way(or worse, some might say) to people who disagree with your politics?

In fairness, the dude was being an asshole. Read his posts that they are responding to. It had nothing to do with his race, gender, sexual preference, or anything of the sort. He was just straight being an asshole. Like I told him before, he's a typical Trump sheep, making the rest of the flock look horrible. Par for the course with him though.

 

[BobbyMac]

Were we not discussing Trump and restricting the rights of minorities? Those words came out of his mouth, not mine.

"So wanting to ban all Muslims"

What do you mean by your quoted statement above?

 

[GoIrish41]

Both of your arguments are flawed. Bernie does not have 90+% or even the 84% of all "young people's" support. Just 84% of Democrats in that story. He'd be lucky to carry 66% if he were to get the nomination. That is not comparable to the support the President received from black voters in '08 or '12.

Making America great again doesn't mean resetting cultural attitudes to the post war America. If I say I'm going to "Make my car great again" and proceed to get a paint job or a new engine, it changes the appearance or performance... it does not reset the odometer.

I didn't say he had 90+% or 84% of all young people's support. I was talking about his support in the primaries, where he is dominating with young people. We're not in the general election, and sadly, he won't be. You are comparing a general election to the primaries, so I would argue that is not a valid comparison.

As to the MAGA, I would agree that it doesn't necessarily mean resetting cultural attitudes, but his messaging appears to be aimed in that direction. His rhetoric about Mexicans, African Americans, women are all cultural in nature, and I believe there is ample evidence that it is being taken that way by his supporters.

 

[BobbyMac]

I didn't say he had 90+% or 84% of all young people's support. I was talking about his support in the primaries, where he is dominating with young people. We're not in the general election, and sadly, he won't be. You are comparing a general election to the primaries, so I would argue that is not a valid comparison.

As to the MAGA, I would agree that it doesn't necessarily mean resetting cultural attitudes, but his messaging appears to be aimed in that direction. His rhetoric about Mexicans, women, African Americans, women are all cultural in nature, and I believe there is ample evidence that it is being taken that way by his supporters.

"Emo teens who hate the world" -- if you think this is the extent of Bernie's support among young Americans, you simply have not been paying attention. He is getting similar numbers with young people as Obama received with African American voters. He was a relatively unknown political quantity, and is giving a candidate who has prepared her whole life to run for president, a run for her money.

1. In your words, you did say it. In the context of the discussion you made no inference that you were talking only about Democratic support.

2. Your feeling is it appears... you believe there is evidence Neither are conclusive positions supported by fact, not even for this dead center, moderate Independent.

 

[GoIrish41]

You guys bang on Trump for being an asshole to ethnic groups, and then you turn around and act the same way(or worse, some might say) to people who disagree with your politics?

I think you may want to read the post I replied to

 

[BobbyMac]

I think you may want to read the post I replied to

I did. You quoted it.

Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
U mean the Bernie groups of Emo teens who hate the world, racist hate groups who hate the world, and feminists who hate the world didn't play nice. Someone must have triggered them with a MAGA hat or even worse held up an American flag "GASP", its the only explanation.

 

[kmoose]

In fairness, the dude was being an asshole. Read his posts that they are responding to. It had nothing to do with his race, gender, sexual preference, or anything of the sort. He was just straight being an asshole. Like I told him before, he's a typical Trump sheep, making the rest of the flock look horrible. Par for the course with him though.

And GoIrish41, if you read his posts, finds racism in just about everything in life. I disagree with NDCrusader's characterization of Bernie supporters, but if you read his post....... is what he said really any worse than characterizing all Trump supporters as "sheep"?

 

[kmoose]

I think you may want to read the post I replied to

I did. I don't agree with his characterization. But there does seem to be a pattern on this board, that those with liberal views can get away with attacking people by calling them names, while those with conservative views are taken task for doing anything similar.

 

[GoIrish41]

1. In your words, you did say it. In the context of the discussion you made no inference that you were talking only about Democratic support.

2. Your feeling is it appears... you believe there is evidence Neither are conclusive positions supported by fact, not even for this dead center, moderate Independent.

1. Bernie is not running in the general election. He is running in the primaries, so I thought the comparison was obvious.

2. So, are you suggesting that we should ignore the obvious swipes at minority groups and women because he hasn't explicitly said I am for putting people back in their place? Or can we logically infer from his statements that he, like most nationalists in history have done, are pointing his tiny fingers at these groups in blame? There is no evidence to suggest that these are not positions, and if they are, doesn't it follow that he will do things to "fix the problems?" ... like building a wall to stop Mexicans from coming across the border and banning Muslims from entry into the United States. These are his "suggestions." What am I to conclude from them?

All we have are his own words and deeds to come to our own conclusions. I've stated mine. Too bad the GOP was incapable of making him answer any questions during the primaries and that he didn't have the courage of his convictions to explicitly say what he believes. In the absence of that, I have come to my own conclusions based on what he has said. This is what the vetting process is all about.

 

[GoIrish41]

I did. I don't agree with his characterization. But there does seem to be a pattern on this board, that those with liberal views can get away with attacking people by calling them names, while those with conservative views are taken task for doing anything similar.

Are you f'ing kidding me? First of all, nobody is more guilty of lashing out at people than you. Over the past couple of months, I have seen you called out for this very thing repeatedly, and yet here you are trying to get into yet another argument. Isn't that a pattern?

Secondly, the poster started with the name-calling and attacked me in the post I responded to, and to my knowledge nothing happened to him for doing so. Is that also a pattern? It doesn't have anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative ... it has everything to do with being a non-civil asshole who cannot have a coherent discussion without being insulting. But, you don't want to hear about us liberals being "triggered" and getting all politically correct so why don't you run along and whine to someone else about how unfair IE is.

 

[kmoose]

Are you f'ing kidding me? First of all, nobody is more guilty of lashing out at people than you. Over the past couple of months, I have seen you called out for this very thing repeatedly, and yet here you are trying to get into yet another argument. Isn't that a pattern?

Secondly, the poster started with the name-calling and attacked me in the post I responded to, and to my knowledge nothing happened to him for doing so. Is that also a pattern? It doesn't have anything to do with being a liberal or a conservative ... it has everything to do with being a non-civil asshole who cannot have a coherent discussion without being insulting. But, you don't want to hear about us liberals being "triggered" and getting all politically correct so why don't you run along and whine to someone else about how unfair IE is.

This isn't about me. You and eddy displayed poor behavior. Whether or not I have done so(in your opinion) in the past is irrelevant. I didn't see where anyone attacked *you*. I saw NDCrusader unfairly categorize most Bernie supporters, but I didn't take it as him saying that every single one of Bernie's supporters belonged to one of those three categories. I'm not trying to start any arguments. I just think that maybe you aren't understanding the difference between him calling out groups of people that you may or may not belong to, and you directing an insult directly at him. As I have been told so many times in the last month; other people's poor behavior does not excuse yours.

 

[GoIrish41]

This isn't about me. You and eddy displayed poor behavior. Whether or not I have done so(in your opinion) in the past is irrelevant. I didn't see where anyone attacked *you*. I saw NDCrusader unfairly categorize most Bernie supporters, but I didn't take it as him saying that every single one of Bernie's supporters belonged to one of those three categories. I'm not trying to start any arguments. I just think that maybe you aren't understanding the difference between him calling out groups of people that you may or may not belong to, and you directing an insult directly at him. As I have been told so many times in the last month; other people's poor behavior does not excuse yours.

Again, did you miss HIS post? I posted it below for you. I'm not sure you understand the difference between following the entire conversation and just picking out the parts you want to establish your pointless point of view. Why don't you start a new thread and bitch about how unfair it all is?

Didn't read cuz I know its your same copy and paste trash. Plus you wrote a book about a half hearted post, cuz you are SAWFT and easily triggered.

And GoIrish41, if you read his posts, finds racism in just about everything in life. I disagree with NDCrusader's characterization of Bernie supporters, but if you read his post....... is what he said really any worse than characterizing all Trump supporters as "sheep"?

Like it is such an incredible reach to find racism in calling Mexicans coming across the border criminals and rapists, or proposing banning all Muslims. Nothing racist there! Do you also think talking about a woman's menstrual cycle on national television is endearing to women ... how about calling them fat pigs on Twitter? Or am I just inserting sexism everywhere in life, too.

 

[Irish#1]

I did. I don't agree with his characterization. But there does seem to be a pattern on this board, that those with liberal views can get away with attacking people by calling them names, while those with conservative views are taken task for doing anything similar.

.

 

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Bernie is the only 1 allowing a racist hate group to speak at rallys and hold signs. Common denominator in disturbance's between Republican and Democratic meetings. Bernie supporters. Go ahead and live in denial of who the true hateful group of ppl are atm.

 

[kmoose]

Again, did you miss HIS post? I posted it below for you. I'm not sure you understand the difference between following the entire conversation and just picking out the parts you want to establish your pointless point of view.

I do understand it, and I wish you would calm down. I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to have a conversation about it. I guess the big disconnect here is that I felt your personal insults of him started in the post BEFORE the one you just quoted, where you displayed utter condescension(in my mind) toward him in saying:

You sure do have a lot to say about all these groups "hating the world," when your boy Trump has seized your party by appealing to the hate that flows through its base. He's going to Make American Great Again -- calling for a time when young people, blacks, immigrants and women understood their place. It is pretty clear to me that you haven't put much thought into your position (or your post). Your party is a dumpster fire because its level of understanding of what is going on in this country is blind to that of everyone except its own myopic 19th Century view of how the country should work.

So are you saying that it is ok for you to be condescending and insulting, if he started it first?

 

[GATTACA!]

2. So, are you suggesting that we should ignore the obvious swipes at minority groups and women because he hasn't explicitly said I am for putting people back in their place?

He said illegal immigrants were criminals, that's a fact. Weather or not you think it should be a crime, they are all by definition a criminal. The stuff about them being rapists and murderers was stupid but there is some evidence to suggest that they do commit a violent crimes at a higher rate than citizens.

What has he said about women? He called rosie a pig. That isn't sextist. Just because you critisize a woman doesn't mean it's because of her gender. Same thing with the Megyn Kelly stuff, he was criticizing her because he felt she was being unfair to him not because she's a woman. Trump employs tons of women at high positions in his company. Hillary is the one that pays her female staffers 38% less than their male counterparts.

Or can we logically infer from his statements that he, like most nationalists in history have done, are pointing his tiny fingers at these groups in blame?

This is funny lol

like building a wall to stop Mexicans from coming across the border and banning Muslims from entry into the United States. These are his "suggestions." What am I to conclude from them?

That he wants to stop people from doing something that illegal?? When did it become the accepted fact that our boarders should be non existent, and anyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration is racist?

Same thing with the Muslim issue, simply look at what Muslim immigrants are doing to every European country they enter.

All we have are his own words and deeds to come to our own conclusions. I've stated mine. Too bad the GOP was incapable of making him answer any questions during the primaries and that he didn't have the courage of his convictions to explicitly say what he believes. In the absence of that, I have come to my own conclusions based on what he has said. This is what the vetting process is all about.

Don't act like the GOP didn't do everything in their power to tear him down. You're just scared the same thing is going to happen to Hillary.

 

[GoIrish41]

I do understand it, and I wish you would calm down. I'm not insulting you, I'm just trying to have a conversation about it. I guess the big disconnect here is that I felt your personal insults of him started in the post BEFORE the one you just quoted, where you displayed utter condescension(in my mind) toward him in saying:



So are you saying that it is ok for you to be condescending and insulting, if he started it first?

I'm saying that I'm not going to let someone just be a jackass to me, and leave it at that. I'm going to defend myself. I'm not going to let anyone suggest that because some silly college student took political correctness too far on some campus somewhere, that all liberals are sitting around waiting for someone to pounce on every little thing they don't like. And, I'm not going to let you butt in and agree with him with your faux "middle of the road, reasonable guy" BS while trying to pile on by calling me out, but not him. His original post was a swipe at all liberals. I am a liberal, my wife is a liberal, my children are liberals. None of us are Emos. None of us belong to hate groups. None of us are feminists who hate the world, so I responded in the same vein as he chose for his stupid, ill informed characterization. He said something stupid and I called him on it. End of story.

 

[NDinL.A.]

And GoIrish41, if you read his posts, finds racism in just about everything in life. I disagree with NDCrusader's characterization of Bernie supporters, but if you read his post....... is what he said really any worse than characterizing all Trump supporters as "sheep"?

I wasn't talking about Crusader, I was talking about his response to Knocks.

 

[kmoose]

I'm saying that I'm not going to let someone just be a jackass to me, and leave it at that. I'm going to defend myself. I'm not going to let anyone suggest that because some silly college student took political correctness too far on some campus somewhere, that all liberals are sitting around waiting for someone to pounce on every little thing they don't like. And, I'm not going to let you butt in and agree with him with your faux "middle of the road, reasonable guy" BS while trying to pile on by calling me out, but not him. His original post was a swipe at all liberals. I am a liberal, my wife is a liberal, my children are liberals. None of us are Emos. None of us belong to hate groups. None of us are feminists who hate the world, so I responded in the same vein as he chose for his stupid, ill informed characterization. He said something stupid and I called him on it. End of story.

1. I said that I disagreed with his characterizations.

2. You didn't seem to mind when NDinLA butted in. Could it be that it's ok for people to butt in when they agree with you, but it's not ok for someone to butt in if they are questioning you?

 

[GoIrish41]

He said illegal immigrants were criminals, that's a fact. Weather or not you think it should be a crime, they are all by definition a criminal. The stuff about them being rapists and murderers was stupid but there is some evidence to suggest that they do commit a violent crimes at a higher rate than citizens.

He made it "OK" for a lot of ignorant people to start calling people out because they look different. There have been people posting on this board who have described events they have had to put up with where they have been accused of being illegal because their skin isn't white. You know who else are criminals -- tax evaders. What's he got to say about them? And where are his tax returns? Fuck Donald Trump!

What has he said about women? He called rosie a pig. That isn't sextist. Just because you critisize a woman doesn't mean it's because of her gender. Same thing with the Megyn Kelly stuff, he was criticizing her because he felt she was being unfair to him not because she's a woman. Trump employs tons of women at high positions in his company. Hillary is the one that pays her female staffers 38% less than their male counterparts.

He constantly insults women based on their appearance. Discussing a woman's menstrual cycle on television because she was asking questions that were too hard? Used to be a candidate prerequisite was a stable family life. He's been married to three women -- each time trading up for a newer model. He's a sexist pig. Fuck Donald Trump!

That he wants to stop people from doing something that illegal?? When did it become the accepted fact that our boarders should be non existent, and anyone that is against ILLEGAL immigration is racist?

If he wants to run on a platform of building his idiotic wall, have at it. When he incites inorant racists to have a coming out party during a national election, I'm going to view him as a racist. FDT!

Same thing with the Muslim issue, simply look at what Muslim immigrants are doing to every European country they enter.

What are all Muslims doing that is illegal again? FDT!

Don't act like the GOP didn't do everything in their power to tear him down. You're just scared the same thing is going to happen to Hillary.

The candidates didn't go after him for his ignorant rhetoric, because they didn't want to alienate his supporters -- ya know, the GOP base. Hillary and the Dems won't have that problem. They aren't voting for her anyway. FDT!

 

[kmoose]

I wasn't talking about Crusader, I was talking about his response to Knocks.

My bad. I was referring to his response to Knocks, as well. I just got the two names mixed up.

 

[BobbyMac]

And GoIrish41, if you read his posts, finds racism in just about everything in life. I disagree with NDCrusader's characterization of Bernie supporters, but if you read his post....... is what he said really any worse than characterizing all Trump supporters as "sheep"?

I didn't say anything about Bernie supporters.

2. So, are you suggesting that we should ignore the obvious swipes at minority groups and women because he hasn't explicitly said I am for putting people back in their place? Or can we logically infer from his statements that he, like most nationalists in history have done, are pointing his tiny fingers at these groups in blame? There is no evidence to suggest that these are not positions, and if they are, doesn't it follow that he will do things to "fix the problems?" ... like building a wall to stop Mexicans from coming across the border and banning Muslims from entry into the United States. These are his "suggestions." What am I to conclude from them?

That he doesn't want ANY illegal immigration coming across the border(?)

I'm sure the wall won't have "magical doors" that allow illegal - Nicaraguan, El Salvadoran, Guatemalan, Honduran, Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese, Korean Egyptian, Syrian, Iranian, Albanian, etc... immigrants through while only illegal Mexican immigrants are targeted.

I always thought a wall would be the far left's favorite option as it is incapable of possessing or practicing discriminatory behavior?

There will still be thousands upon thousands of Mexican nationals coming to the US... first through the Embassy, then through a checkpoint or customs like one is legally required.

This isn't about me. You and eddy displayed poor behavior. Whether or not I have done so(in your opinion) in the past is irrelevant. I didn't see where anyone attacked *you*. I saw NDCrusader unfairly categorize most Bernie supporters, but I didn't take it as him saying that every single one of Bernie's supporters belonged to one of those three categories. I'm not trying to start any arguments. I just think that maybe you aren't understanding the difference between him calling out groups of people that you may or may not belong to, and you directing an insult directly at him. As I have been told so many times in the last month; other people's poor behavior does not excuse yours.

You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[kmoose]

Discussing a woman's menstrual cycle on television because she was asking questions that were too hard?

If we're being fair and unbiased, he didn't discuss anyone's menstrual cycle. What he said was,

"You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes," Trump told CNN's Don Lemon on Friday night. "Blood coming out of her wherever."

Nowhere in there did he mention anything about a menstrual cycle. People just assigned that meaning to it. I took it as a metaphor for her being blinded by hate for him, causing her to ask him nonsense(in his opinion) questions. To be honest, I don't remember what the questions were, so I can neither agree with Trump, nor disagree, that they were nonsense.

But, regardless.......... he did not "discuss a woman's menstrual cycle" on TV.

 

[kmoose]

I didn't say anything about Bernie supporters.



That he doesn't want ANY illegal immigration coming across the border(?)

I'm sure the wall won't have "magical doors" that allow illegal - Nicaraguan, El Salvadoran, Guatemalan, Honduran, Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese, Korean Egyptian, Syrian, Iranian, Albanian, etc... immigrants through while only illegal Mexican immigrants are targeted.

I always thought a wall would be the far left's favorite option as it is incapable of possessing or practicing discriminatory behavior?

There will still be thousands upon thousands of Mexican nationals coming to the US... first through the Embassy, then through a checkpoint or customs like one is legally required.



You must have me confused with someone else.

I did. I said as much, but you were probably already writing this before I posted about my confusion. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[GoIrish41]

I didn't say anything about Bernie supporters.



That he doesn't want ANY illegal immigration coming across the border(?)

I'm sure the wall won't have "magical doors" that allow illegal - Nicaraguan, El Salvadoran, Guatemalan, Honduran, Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese, Korean Egyptian, Syrian, Iranian, Albanian, etc... immigrants through while only illegal Mexican immigrants are targeted.

I always thought a wall would be the far left's favorite option as it is incapable of possessing or practicing discriminatory behavior?

There will still be thousands upon thousands of Mexican nationals coming to the US... first through the Embassy, then through a checkpoint or customs like one is legally required.

Weird that you left the Mulsims out of your post and only addressed the part about the Mexicans. I'd like to hear why its cool to have them carry around citizenship papers like they used to back in the day in Germany.

(By the way, most Mexican immigrants come here legally and overstay their visas and a wall won't do jack shit to stop that -- which is why we need comprehensive immigration reform). But, those details don't matter when you want to build a wall that will cost taxpayers billions of dollars.

 

[kmoose]

He made it for "OK" for a lot of ignorant people to start calling people out because they look different. There have been people posting on this board who have described events they have had to put up with where they have been accused of being illegal because their skin isn't white. You know who else are criminals -- tax evaders. What's he got to say about them? And where are his tax returns? Fuck Donald Trump!



He constantly insults women based on their appearance. Discussing a woman's menstrual cycle on television because she was asking questions that were too hard? Used to be a candidate prerequisite was a stable family life. He's been married to three women -- each time trading up for a newer model. He's a sexist pig. Fuck Donald Trump!





If he wants to run on a platform of building his idiotic wall, have at it. When he incites inorant racists to have a coming out party during a national election, I'm going to view him as a racist. FDT!



What are all Muslims doing that is illegal again? FDT!





The candidates didn't go after him for his ignorant rhetoric, because they didn't want to alienate his supporters -- ya know, the GOP base. Hillary and the Dems won't have that problem. They aren't voting for her anyway. FDT!

Remember, folks.............. the GOP is the party of hate!!

 

[GoIrish41]

If we're being fair and unbiased, he didn't discuss anyone's menstrual cycle. What he said was,



Nowhere in there did he mention anything about a menstrual cycle. People just assigned that meaning to it. I took it as a metaphor for her being blinded by hate for him, causing her to ask him nonsense(in his opinion) questions. To be honest, I don't remember what the questions were, so I can neither agree with Trump, nor disagree, that they were nonsense.

But, regardless.......... he did not "discuss a woman's menstrual cycle" on TV.

Ya know Moose, this is why it is just torturous to discuss anything with you. If you don't know he was talking about her being on her period, you are the only person in America who is that clueless.

 

[GoIrish41]

Remember, folks.............. the GOP is the party of hate!!

Sorry, I didn't do it right. Donald Trump is a racist, so I hate all white people.

 

[BobbyMac]

.

 

[EddytoNow]

If we're being fair and unbiased, he didn't discuss anyone's menstrual cycle. What he said was,



Nowhere in there did he mention anything about a menstrual cycle. People just assigned that meaning to it. I took it as a metaphor for her being blinded by hate for him, causing her to ask him nonsense(in his opinion) questions. To be honest, I don't remember what the questions were, so I can neither agree with Trump, nor disagree, that they were nonsense.

But, regardless.......... he did not "discuss a woman's menstrual cycle" on TV.

He was asked to respond to things he had said in the past about women. He denied his own words and was pushed by Kelly's questions to explain. One of his responses was that Rosie O'Donnell was ugly. There was more, but basically Trump has a long history of insulting women who stand up to him and disagree. Hillary won't back down, so we can expect a stream of insults to be directed at her. "Crooked Hillary" is probably mild compared to what he will say in the pressure of a debate with a woman who won't back down from his bullying. Trump likes his women to be young and submissive. When they aren't submissive he resorts to name-calling. When they are no longer young, he dumps them and uses his wealth to purchase the attention of the next young and willing woman to strike his fancy.

I suppose he also wasn't talking about the size of his **** when ribbed by Rubio regarding his small hand size. Trump can't help himself, he blurts things out without thinking. Then he tries to back-track and explain it off as something else. He does it so frequently, he has lost credibility.

He may be an adult physically, but he still acts like the playground bully. Mature behavior is not one of his strong points. He will be done in by his own words. I can see Trump's red face and steaming nostrils now when Hillary dares to push back in the debates. He won't be able to debate the issues. His back-up plan is name-calling.