Do you agree with Weis's committ policy?

[mysontim]

I thought this would be a good post. I think that this might be drastic but if he loses recruit after recruit we will asking for his head. I am a big Weis supporter and admire and try to emulate him with my 7th and 8th grade football team. I read his book and like the approach of, "If you were not playing football what school would you want a degree from?". This makes the kids think because I think the super bowl ring approach may get alittle old down the road. I like the "I want kids committed to us", no nonsense jersey approach. Because this is who he is and I can respect that as most kids will as well. What do you think?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

It works for a lot of coaches...like Mack Brown and Les Miles.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I like the fact he is taking a stand. I hope it works out the way we want. This '08 recruits are going to be very important for ND and Weis.

 

[TexasNDFan]

I love this policy, it will help ND two ways: you won't see kids decommiting at the last minute, leaving the Irish high and dry and if a kid isn't sure then we'll move onto the next guy.

 

[irishlaw77]

I think the policy is necessary, and will help cut done on possible gamesmanship on the recruits' part. Those that do commit early will be the kids that want to be here. Take your visits, feel free to commit early, but expect it to mean something this time around. Knowing that a seat isn't being guaranteed to anyone should still be a good incentive to not waiting until signing day.

 

[LeahysLad]

As important as the "no soft commit" position, is the added intensity of the attention to an early signing day. Both these things should help Coach Weis pinpoint players that are..um..committed.

 

[irishlaw77]

Early signing day would be useful, but would probably not be implemented for the '08 class. Anybody hear anything different?

 

[marv81s]

I'm in 100% agreement with Weis's new recruiting policy.

After the shit that was pulled with him this year, I would say a change is defiantely needed. Hey, I'm all for a kid enjoying his recruitment as much as possible, BUT, they need to understand what a COMMITTMENT is and what it means. You committ, you give your word to a person that your theirs. Too often these days a person words doesn't mean jack shit. That is not the way I was raised and it shouldn't be the way things are now.

Now everyone from the kid, to their parents, to their head coach will have the understanding that if they give a committment to ND, they are committed. After the boning Weis took, this is a very logical move. Will we lose kids because of it, yep. You know what, of F'n well! Shit happens and the kids that want to come to ND, will be what everyone on here calls ND guys, maybe nothing will change, but either way we are getting guys here that want to be here and will work their ass's off for the team. Thats what I want.

 

[irish4ever]

I'm totally for it! The recruit should not make the COMMITMENT until they a 100% sure with their decision, whether that be a day before LOI day. Once the COMMITMENT is made, then they need to live up to their word! a person's word has to mean more than plain gibberish, plain an simple!

I'm not worried at all that Weis and his staff won't be able to land big recruits. This will definately take a lot of the bullshit out of the recruiting game! And fuk Urbie, Zook and the Poodle!!!

 

[NDChatt]

I agree with his policy, I think recruits should be held accountable for their committments.

 

[nd1]

I like it. get the kids that want to be nd. If they want to be here they will have pride and play hard. These kids don't know what the word commit means.

 

[irishunclebill]

I also agree with it 100%. It may hurt at times, but it is in reality a policy that is more in tune with the University's core beliefs.

 

[Irish52]

"we will be asking for his head". I don't think so! The most obvious answer is an early signing date. Should the recruit renege on his signing committment, Both the recruit and the signing school should be penalized.... This will stop all the enethical and immoral crap that is going on now. How about penalizing the recruit one year of eligibility and the signing coach one scholarship for that year. Harsh...yea, but it's time to take the kiddie gloves off. Like a previous writer said, if a kid at 18 is old enough to risk his life for his country, choosing a school to play football should be simple by comparison.

 

[FleaFlicker]

I absolutely agree with it. If for no other reason than because I had two heart attacks this year because of everything. It will cut-down on the drama and uncertainty a bit. And it will also allow ND not to be exploited like it was this year.

I still think many recruits put ND in their top 5 with no interest of going there, but because it makes them look like a more promising recruit.

Think of the guys that ND was in their top 3. There were probably 10 5-star guys that had ND in their top 2 or 3, none of them (besides Jimmy) ended up going with ND

 

[weisbankaccount]

They got a top 10 class without the policy. Its sour grapes on Weis' part and it was kneejerk. Kids that grew up wanting to go to ND would sign early or on NSD anyway, kids that were undecided would wait anyway.

I dont see how it changes anything except making ND look desperate. The-recruit could still sign with somebody else at the last minute regardless, they could have blue and gold face paint on and still sign with someone else if they wanted to. Doesnt make them anything but idiots but they could.

 

[irishunclebill]

HMM! Thus far 14 replies to this post and only the last one is negative. Why am I not surprised?

 

[weisbankaccount]

How is it negative? If your car is running perfectly, do you rip out the engine?

This was the best ND class in about 10 years yet there is more negative and controversy surrounding this class than any other I can remember.

Its funny what negative is defined as here. Im perfectly happy with the best ND class in many years while people here are still worried about 2 hacks that didnt want to be here anyway.

All Weis did by complaining about it is stir up the ND haters and even though all Big 10 schools chirped about IL, it is perceived now that it is ND because of Weis' complaints in general.

17 year olds coming up - they dont really know about the ND glory years because were about 13-14 years removed from it. All the negative does is turn those guys off to ND.

Quit complaining and win. Everything else will fall in line. Stop counting on a kids dad to tell him ND tales of greatness and get it back to it for real then you dont need recruiting policy tweaks.

 

[bbrennan]

Its sour grapes on Weis' part and it was kneejerk.

Actually, I see it just the opposite. Sure the policy comes after a crazy recruiting year, but I think it fits with Weis' general recruiting philosophy change.

I completely agree with the new policy, especially since it comes with a move to accept more early enrollees and offer more kids early. I think you have to look at the policy in the context of the other changes being made to recruiting. If CW was not willing to cast a broader net early in the recruiting cycle, which it sure seems like he is doing with juniors now, then I think the policy would be flawed. Plus, CW has said he is aiming for ~20 recruits per year. This means he needs 20 kids commitment to the program. He cannot afford to have 2-3 defects late in the game every year.

Look, ND is a special place, not just because of the football. These recruits, and their parents and their high school coaches, need to understand this. When ND offers a scholarship it is a big deal. The pre-eminent college football program in the country is making a commitment to you. If you cannot reciprocate the same commitment, then we need to move on. Why should representatives of the university not take a stand in such matters.

Call it sour grapes, call it arrogance. I call it rational thinking and in line with the values ND instills in each of her students.

 

[weisbankaccount]

Actually, I see it just the opposite. Sure the policy comes after a crazy recruiting year, but I think it fits with Weis' general recruiting philosophy change.

I completely agree with the new policy, especially since it comes with a move to accept more early enrollees and offer more kids early. I think you have to look at the policy in the context of the other changes being made to recruiting. If CW was not willing to cast a broader net early in the recruiting cycle, which it sure seems like he is doing with juniors now, then I think the policy would be flawed. Plus, CW has said he is aiming for ~20 recruits per year. This means he needs 20 kids commitment to the program. He cannot afford to have 2-3 defects late in the game every year.

Look, ND is a special place, not just because of the football. These recruits, and their parents and their high school coaches, need to understand this. When ND offers a scholarship it is a big deal. The pre-eminent college football program in the country is making a commitment to you. If you cannot reciprocate the same commitment, then we need to move on. Why should representatives of the university not take a stand in such matters.

Call it sour grapes, call it arrogance. I call it rational thinking and in line with the values ND instills in each of her students.

All I will ask you is if Little and Little signed on the line as ND thought, would Weis still be talking about recruiting policy changes?

If the answer is yes, it wasnt kneejerk. If the answer is no, it was kneejerk.

I suspect if everybody signed on as expected that day, the issue doesnt come up.

 

[BigIrish]

They got a top 10 class without the policy. Its sour grapes on Weis' part and it was kneejerk. Kids that grew up wanting to go to ND would sign early or on NSD anyway, kids that were undecided would wait anyway.

I dont see how it changes anything except making ND look desperate. The-recruit could still sign with somebody else at the last minute regardless, they could have blue and gold face paint on and still sign with someone else if they wanted to. Doesnt make them anything but idiots but they could.

as unpopular as your opinion might be around here, there's no real way to debate it because it's simply a matter of perception, and that's subject to interpretation.

that said, this whole issue brings to mind a spring game i attended in the early 90s while a senior in high school. i was there with my father, and we got caught up in a crowd of high school juniors and seniors all wearing letter jackets (i was wearing mine), so we followed them into the room. we proceeded to listen in on a speech from lou holtz, who was addressing the prospective recruits in attendance.

i remember specifically one thing he said, and i think it still rings true today. he told them that when they left campus that day, they would go back to their families and friends, and when they told them they were being recruited by UM, or OSU, or MSU, etc., their family and friends would say 'that's nice,' and leave it at that. he then told them to pay particular attention to the reaction they received from those same family and friends when they told them they were being recruited by Notre Dame. That was when they would be truly impressed.

Granted, Holtz was coming off a national championship and routinely beat the regional rivals like UM, Purdue, and MSU, so he was in a position to make that sort of claim. But i think it still remains true today, that when a recruit is being courted by the Irish, it makes a statement about both the character and the talent of that recruit. Recruits know this, and it's naive to think they don't occasionally use it to their advantage.

Now, it's exactly because of this that ND continues to be unique in the recruiting world - experiencing these sorts of difficulties that other schools don't encounter quite so frequently. It is also exactly why Weis is justified in taking a stance against those that might lead on the irish coaching staff for reasons other than being sincerely undecided.

Would Weis' new philosophy have prevented any of our defections this year? Certainly not for 2 of them. Perhaps Trattou would have thought twice had he received a phone call from the Irish staff explaining to him that if he's visiting florida over the weekend, his scholarship might not be waiting when he returns if another recruit waiting in the wings decides he's heard the call to ND and wants to commit.

but once again, that begs the question - if trattou had received a call like that and decided to take a visit anyway, isn't it clear that he's as good as gone anyway? what harm could there be in Weis taking a more proactive approach to finding his replacement when a recruit signals his intentions to decommit through his actions rather than his words?

 

[FleaFlicker]

All I will ask you is if Little and Little signed on the line as ND thought, would Weis still be talking about recruiting policy changes?

If the answer is yes, it wasnt kneejerk. If the answer is no, it was kneejerk.

I suspect if everybody signed on as expected that day, the issue doesnt come up.

I bet he still does, but it is all speculation of course. Remember the whole quote that everyone went gaga over? About Weis having some premium recruits up his sleeve?

Well we know about Benn, but there is speculation about a number of other guys as well. Not to mention what happened with Trattou.

It's obvious that ND got shafted in the last few weeks. And I'm sure it made Weis think twice. But ND possibly also had silent verbals from a few other guys besides Benn, and they didn't pan out. Which is why Weis talked more about his view on silent verbals than anything.

If the Little's signed with us, Trattou, Benn, and probably a few others we don't know about, would have happened anyway, and Weis would still be mad about those.

Trattou is a good example of Weis' new stance on visiting other schools. If we knew that we needed to start looking to replace Trattou when he visited Florida, or if Trattou knew that his spot was now up for grabs, only positives could have come out of it...

1. Trattou visits Florida, and we start looking. We gain a valuable weeks worth of time (or so) to look for a replacement before the rapidly approaching NSD.

2. Trattou knows that he is jeopardizing a lot by going on the trip, and because he doesn't want to do that, not knowing what FL has to offer, he never takes the trip and stays committed to ND.

The problem with our policy over the last year was that recruits basically reserved themselves a spot, with no ramifications at looking at other schools. It made all the sense in the world to commit. It gave them publicity, it upped their stock, and they could still shop around a bit.

The only people that got screwed on the deal were ND, because they were saving a spot for a kid that they thought was coming, and didn't offer any new people because of it.

 

[irishunclebill]

How is it negative? If your car is running perfectly, do you rip out the engine?

This was the best ND class in about 10 years yet there is more negative and controversy surrounding this class than any other I can remember.

Its funny what negative is defined as here. Im perfectly happy with the best ND class in many years while people here are still worried about 2 hacks that didnt want to be here anyway.

All Weis did by complaining about it is stir up the ND haters and even though all Big 10 schools chirped about IL, it is perceived now that it is ND because of Weis' complaints in general.

17 year olds coming up - they dont really know about the ND glory years because were about 13-14 years removed from it. All the negative does is turn those guys off to ND.

Quit complaining and win. Everything else will fall in line. Stop counting on a kids dad to tell him ND tales of greatness and get it back to it for real then you dont need recruiting policy tweaks.

HMM!!! Let's see now we are at 19 replies, 16 positive, 3 negative all from the same source. Why am I still not surprised?

 

[BigIrish]

All I will ask you is if Little and Little signed on the line as ND thought, would Weis still be talking about recruiting policy changes?

If the answer is yes, it wasnt kneejerk. If the answer is no, it was kneejerk.

I suspect if everybody signed on as expected that day, the issue doesnt come up.

the cause and effect relationship you're suggesting is flawed.

it doesn't make it a kneejerk reaction simply because, had everyone signed, weis might not have expressed this new philosophy. rather, had everyone signed, it would have been a lesson that had gone unlearned, and would only have been delayed.

you're ignoring the fact that weis isn't alone in his opinion. lloyd carr expressed a similar sentiment on signing day, but didn't get the press for it because weis discussed it at length and provided the type of 'feature' quotes journalists are looking for. but make no mistake, there's a growing drumbeat among coaches that this is an issue that must be addressed either internally by respective programs or collectively through NCAA changes (ie, early signing day)

 

[FleaFlicker]

HMM!!! Let's see now we are at 19 replies, 16 positive, 3 negative all from the same source. Why am I still not surprised?

I have to side with weisbankacct on this one, actually. I dont' really think he is being that negative, just bringing up a different point of view.

Also, how interesting is a forum when 100% of the replies are on one side of the debate?

 

[marv81s]

why don't we wait and see how ND does this next recruiting cycle with the new system before anything else?

Seeing how things turned out this year, not just with us, but with other schools, I defiantely think a change is in order. This system seems to work with teams like Texas and LSU. Sure Texas has a deep talent pool, but point is they get kids that want to come to Texas. Seeing how this new recruiting policy is all about getting the guys that WANT to come to ND, what harm is there in that? You are getting kids that WANT TO BE HERE.

Thats a bad thing??

 

[irishunclebill]

I have to side with weisbankacct on this one, actually. I dont' really think he is being that negative, just bringing up a different point of view.

Also, how interesting is a forum when 100% of the replies are on one side of the debate?

You misunderstand what I mean by being negative as does WBA. It is great to have a debate on the issue, and WBA has every right to bring up a different point of view. That is not what I mean by being negative. What is negative is unnecessary comments like this
"Its sour grapes on Weis' part and it was kneejerk." Every single post out of WBA has something negative in its' tone. Bring up conflicting points of view, the more the merrier, but try to present them in a manner that is not denigrating to a coach who is merely trying to do the best he can for Notre Dame.

 

[weisbankaccount]

You misunderstand what I mean by being negative as does WBA. It is great to have a debate on the issue, and WBA has every right to bring up a different point of view. That is not what I mean by being negative. What is negative is unnecessary comments like this
"Its sour grapes on Weis' part and it was kneejerk." Every single post out of WBA has something negative in its' tone. Bring up conflicting points of view, the more the merrier, but try to present them in a manner that is not denigrating to a coach who is merely trying to do the best he can for Notre Dame.

Well, every single point has been about the recruiting aftermath, being that Im consistent, I guess that means youre going to get the same "negative" out of me.

Im just calling Weis out for being disingenous, as he was. He doesnt like the way things went down and said they needed to revisit the term "committed" yet 2 guys on his current class were "committed" to Iowa and Louisville and he has no qualms about them changing allegiance.

It was sour grapes. And to question the entire process after you lose 2 guys but in a complete 180 acquire 2 guys by the same means = sour grapes.

I didnt hear Kirk Ferentz say anything about the process when he lost a 4 star prospect committed for months after ND came a knockin'.

No Excuses is the books title. No Excuses. Move on and coach the 2 stellar classes you landed. Stop acting like Parcells and belly-aching about things.

 

[irishunclebill]

Well that makes 4, thanks.

 

[FleaFlicker]

Well, every single point has been about the recruiting aftermath, being that Im consistent, I guess that means youre going to get the same "negative" out of me.

Im just calling Weis out for being disingenous, as he was. He doesnt like the way things went down and said they needed to revisit the term "committed" yet 2 guys on his current class were "committed" to Iowa and Louisville and he has no qualms about them changing allegiance.

It was sour grapes. And to question the entire process after you lose 2 guys but in a complete 180 acquire 2 guys by the same means = sour grapes.

I didnt hear Kirk Ferentz say anything about the process when he lost a 4 star prospect committed for months after ND came a knockin'.

No Excuses is the books title. No Excuses. Move on and coach the 2 stellar classes you landed. Stop acting like Parcells and belly-aching about things.

He's not making excuses, he never made excuses, he even made a point in his presser to say that he wasn't making excuses. He is simply changing his policy. That is different. He even wished benn well at Ill. Doesn't sound like sour grapes to me, that sounds like you projecting.

 

[Irish Mike]

Living down in Austin, Texas I get a first hand view of Mack Brown and the University of Texas recruiting and his approach works great. Mack Brown loses his share of top recruits who flip flop but he gets players that really want to be at Texas and has very little attrition related to players who leave the program.