Ronald Talley leaves Notre Dame football team

Aerosmith777

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Quit the racist shit!! It is always the same argument. If the first thing you think is "that guy must be black" when you here the word thug, and then you go and post on here, you are racist yourself. If people could get the idea that people are always assuming racism than this shit wouldn't happen. It has ruined another thread.

We are all domers no matter what color. Who Cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thug




No mention of black or white? What? Huh?

Yeah, I agree w/ this logic. I just read through the whole thread, and all I could think about was, "I grew up in a town whiter than wonderbread, and I knew plenty of (white) people I'd of classified as 'thugs' at the time." Shit, I still do. Doesn't have to have anything to do w/ the person's race.
 

BGIF

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Quit the racist shit!! It is always the same argument. If the first thing you think is "that guy must be black" when you here the word thug, and then you go and post on here, you are racist yourself. If people could get the idea that people are always assuming racism than this shit wouldn't happen. It has ruined another thread.

We are all domers no matter what color. Who Cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Thug

No mention of black or white? What? Huh?


I thought about posting about Thugees last night but it was late, it would take too long, what's the use ... Rep for you.

I stumbled across the origin of the word from the '88 movie, The Deceivers. It's from a Hindi, thag. The Thuggees were credited with killing and robbing 2 million people.

Thugs to me are Bill the butcher, The KKK, Al Capone, Dion O'Bannon, Hymie Weiss, Dutch Schultz, Lepke, The SS, Johnny Friendly (Lee J. Cobb) in On The Waterfront, Artie West ( Vic Morrow) in Blackboard Jungle, The Sharks and Jets, Hells Angels, Alex DeLarge (Malcolm Macdowell) in A Clockwork Orange, Rocky Balboa, the loanshark enforcer before he met Apollo Creed, Bumpy Gunn (Moses Gunn) in Shaft, Bloods, Crips and Latin Kings, Triads, Sammy the Bull Gravano, Frank Costello (Jack Nicholson) in The Departed among others.

It's amazing how since some ethnic singers identify themselves today as gangsta's, some of you think that thug must refer to a particular race.

The word has nothing to do with race or skin color unless you're stereotyping people from the Indian sub-continent.

Peoples around the world Irish Catholic, German Protestant, Jew, Hindi, Muslim (Assassins), English, Russian, Italian, Vietnamese, Korean, Chinese, Africans, et al, all have their share of thugs.

PC revisionists cost a guy his job a few years ago when he used the word "niggardly", which means stingy or miserly, about a city budget. He was forced to resign over the "perceived" insult to African Americans. The boneheads that made issue of the episode, even when made aware that niggardly comes from a Scandinavian word meaning stingy while the racial slur comes from the Latin word for black, still pressed on due to their prejudices not due to any prejudice on the part of the one who used the word.

Some weeks back Waldo attacked Oglaigh over him nominating Darius Walker as the most articulate ND football player. Waldo accused him of being racist. Oglaigh was paying a compliment to an athlete who doesn't speak like most of his peers (football players) across the nation. He didn't marvel at the ability of Walker to put two complete sentences together, he praised him for his poise and delivery. Oglaigh didn't just say ariculate, he used the superlative, most articulate. The irony was that Waldo in pouncing showed his intolerance where none was offered by Oglaigh. Waldo likewise cited "concrete" proof for his ad hominem attack.

I don't agree with Oglaigh's characterization of Talley but to accuse him of racism shows the predujice of the accuser, not any by the accused. Your stereotyping, fleaflicker; not his.

it's obvious to most people that "thug" is a slang term for a lot of people in more predominantly African-American urban systems.

Nice glittering generality.

The fact that you have a limited comprehension of the word and ascribe it to one ethic group doesn't mean the rest of us are as myopic as you.


Best wishes to young Mr. Talley wherever he ends up. I'm saddened he's leaving. I'm saddened when any of these young men walk away from the 40 year decision whatever the reason.
 
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tedwick

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yes. thug comes from thugee, drugged-up hindi assassins. And, yes again, the definition has nothing to do with race.

However, common parlance takes meaning from popular culture. "Thug Life" was part of the whole West Coast Rap movement (2pac and others), and the term "thug" is inextricably (for anyone who's familiar with that culture) tied through West Coast Rap to the Bloods and Crips, two incredibly violent west coast gangs which are predominately, if not entirely black. So no, technically, the word doesn't have racial connotations and can generally be used as such. However, we're kidding nobody by claiming that it's not associated with race in modern times.
 

BGIF

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Regardless of how of the comments of being a "thug" or what star player he was, the bottom line is that we are definitely hurting on our line now. But, according the the article I read, it was a mutual decision between Talley and the school, which would lead me to believe that it was a academics or discipline decision. I may be way off base but if he was leaving because of lack of starting ( although I lbelieve he starting four games this year) or something to do with the football team itself, I don't believe it would have said the school agreed with the decision this early in the story time-line. He may have been popular and I don't believe he was a thug, but we should wait on calling out our opinions until the story actually gets out. ...

I agree with your pointing out we should wait until the story actually gets out despite your conjecture, "... would lead me to believe that it was a academics or discipline decision. I may be way off base but if he was leaving because of lack of starting ..."

The September 06 mentioned he had a 3.0 gpa which doesn't make academics a likely reason. Lack of academic progress this semester could get him removed from the team (ND policy) now to assure he could devote full time to his studies. But he would be able to return in the Spring if he was no longer in academic jeopardy. That would not be a reason for his to withdraw school after the semester ends.

A Student Affairs violation could result in his suspension from the team as it did with Powers-Neal but he could return to play after the terms of his suspension were completed. Again no reason to transfer unless it was full one year banishment meaning no extracurricular activities at ND for the Spring and next Fall semsesters. If it was a serious accusation/infraction ala Rego, Elam, Dykes, Craword, and Smith, he wouldn't get to finish out the semester. He'd be gone - now.

On your other point, Starting, suppose (as in hypothetically) he went in to see his coach to discuss his demotion from a starting role. He gets frustrated when the coach doesn't agree with him and blurts out, "Start me in the next game or I'm quitting!" Imagine his shock when his coach replies, "I'm sorry you feel that way, we'll miss you. By the way you'll need to talk to the finance office about how you're going to pay your next semester's tuition as you've revoked your scholarship." It happens every day in the business world, sports world, marriages and relationships where one party escalates a conversation with a dealing breaking statement, intentionally or not. Somebody draws the line in the sand and then has to live with it.

The newspapers are full of "The XYZ Corporation announced Vice President Joe Smith, who was the heir apparent to the CEO scheduled to retire in two years, and the company have mutually agreed to sever/terminate/end their association. Or Dateline Hollywood, Sam Stud and Gina Goodbody have mutually agreed to terminate their marriage after 3 days of connubial bliss. Sam will keep the intimate videotape collection while Gina will keep the pair's adopted Vietnamese pot bellied pig.

It'll come out in time.
 

BGIF

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Hey, by the way,..."Where's Waldo?"

Waldo launched himself into the great abyss during the MSU gameday thread. He got into a urinating contest with Victor's Valiant. Svo warned everybody to play nice, nobody was singled out. Waldo took exception and persisted. After several polite but firm warnings from our fearless leader about his conduct in that thread, poof!

Waldo drew His Line in the Sand when he commanded said fearless leader to go fornicate himself.

PS: Don't bother going back to that thread, the offending posts went into the great "Deleted" void of computerland.
 
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tedwick

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@BGIF: I kind of doubt it would be an ultimatum, just because I don't think Weis would just let him go with a "Start me, or I quit" deal. It would have been at least a longer conversation. Weis is a take-no-nonsense guy, but he's not dumb, and he wouldn't cut his next year's senior class to 8 just because he's not going to take any nonsense. The conversation would have been longer, at least. I have a feeling Talley's been thinking this for a while, probably through pre-season. It was just finally time to cut the cord.

What doesn't make sense to me is why it's in the middle of the season. I guess he needs to apply to other schools...
 

onenybrother

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I hate to hear anyone leaving the program. It's no good for the program and it rarely works out for the player. I wish him luck. Thanks for putting on the helmet Talley.
 
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NDAlumSon

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Waldo launched himself into the great abyss during the MSU gameday thread. He got into a urinating contest with Victor's Valiant. Svo warned everybody to play nice, nobody was singled out. Waldo took exception and persisted. After several polite but firm warnings from our fearless leader about his conduct in that thread, poof!

Waldo drew His Line in the Sand when he commanded said fearless leader to go fornicate himself.

PS: Don't bother going back to that thread, the offending posts went into the great "Deleted" void of computerland.
NO SHIT !! Well, in the words of the great Johnny Carson.."I did not know that !"
Those damn transcendentalists love to draw lines in the sand. The last desperate measure of the surrounded.
Oh well...let's hope he'll give up the 'fellowship' of the completely dissaffected.
If only the young didn't think the world was created when they born.
There's very little historical context in young modern thought.
 

BGIF

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yes. thug comes from thugee, drugged-up hindi assassins. And, yes again, the definition has nothing to do with race.

However, common parlance takes meaning from popular culture. "Thug Life" was part of the whole West Coast Rap movement (2pac and others), and the term "thug" is inextricably (for anyone who's familiar with that culture) tied through West Coast Rap to the Bloods and Crips, two incredibly violent west coast gangs which are predominately, if not entirely black. So no, technically, the word doesn't have racial connotations and can generally be used as such. However, we're kidding nobody by claiming that it's not associated with race in modern times.



"However, common parlance takes meaning from popular culture."

By that logic people that follow the cross must be thugs as the KKK and Aryan Boys sure identify with the image.

The body of work or the prinipal meaning of a word doesn't get ignored because a group tries to identify themselves with a word or an image.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=262872390
 
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NDAlumSon

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Here's some thugs on national TV. Note they're Black AND White. No race has a lock.

I was just going to post the same thing. UM vs. FIU = "thuggery".
How fortuitous that that incident happened in the midst of an English language debate.
I wonder if it advances certain peoples' understanding of nominal linguistics.
 

Mare426

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The word thug to me always meant someone who either thought they were tough or were tough and usually in trouble. It never had any racial overtones to me.
 
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ShivaIrish

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"However, common parlance takes meaning from popular culture."

By that logic people that follow the cross must be thugs as the KKK and Aryan Boys sure identify with the image.

The body of work or the prinipal meaning of a word doesn't get ignored because a group tries to identify themselves with a word or an image.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=262872390


So then, is it okay to walk around with a swastika, since it originally was a symbol of peace and prosperity long before the Nazis came around? I'm actually not being simply rhetorical here, I really don't know what the answer should be, or even if there is one.
 

Mare426

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Yeah, I agree w/ this logic. I just read through the whole thread, and all I could think about was, "I grew up in a town whiter than wonderbread, and I knew plenty of (white) people I'd of classified as 'thugs' at the time." Shit, I still do. Doesn't have to have anything to do w/ the person's race.
I totally agree with this post.
 

BGIF

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So then, is it okay to walk around with a swastika, since it originally was a symbol of peace and prosperity long before the Nazis came around? I'm actually not being simply rhetorical here, I really don't know what the answer should be, or even if there is one.

Cut to the opening scenes of the Da Vinci Code as Tom Hanks runs through the slides ...

The point isn't what's acceptable behavior. In this country the First Amendment allows you to walk around with a swastika if you choose.

The point was rather that a minority group's (and minority doesn't mean race) adoption (or highjacking) of a term or symbol doesn't change the basic meaning of the word.
 

guff

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No real answer from Weis at today's press conference. I knew he wouldn't give much but I was hoping he shed a little light on the situation.
 

BGIF

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Q. You mentioned Ronald leaving. Do you have anything further about that?

COACH WEIS: No. We had talked, I'd say about three times during the year, at different times. We had had some private conversations about his future. We had our last one on Thursday. We went over multiple options about where we were heading. He really felt that it would be in his best interest if he left the team at this time.

After we talked for a while, I felt that his best interest and the team's best interest were one in the same. Therefore, we're leaving amicably with him going. He's not thrown off the team. He just doesn't want to be part of this team anymore.
I wish him well. I told him that as far as we're going to go is what I said in the statement the other day. I said that we've mutually agreed that he's left the team. We've mutually agreed for him to leave the team. We really don't have to go any more in depth than that, because I won't say anything more about it, nor will he.
 
G

Guest

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sounds like playing time was the issue, and perhaps youngsters like Richardson were going to pass him in the depth chart. I guess he didn't like his role on the team
 

tommy

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you read my mind queens thats what iwas about to ask if he felt he wasnt going to be the man either now or in the near future
 
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ChiND

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Odd timing how Talley leaves and an article on Irish Illustrated points that Mo and Ryan will see a more active role moving forward. Things that make you go hmmmm....
 

tommy

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makes you ask the question if they are/have been ready why has it takin talley leaving to get them in
 
K

knute

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makes you ask the question if they are/have been ready why has it takin talley leaving to get them in

Or maybe they were going to get in ahead of Talley and that's why he's leaving.
 

tommy

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was ryan injured did they just all of a sudden become better then him mo has play in pass rushing spots but i thought he wasnt ready as far as coverage atleast thats been what ive heard i just dont understand why they havent been in thier already unless its going to be a use them at what their best at situation
 
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