Back to Baghdad

[BobD]

We've got a major problem here. IMO There is zero chance we don't get involved. With Iran next door and assisting this crap, we will need a fairly good sized force there for a very long time. We'll kill too many civilians if we do a lot of air strikes on a rag tag force like this.

What are your thoughts?

 

[notredomer23]

Bomb the shit out of the ISIS. They are on the move right now with likely very few civilians. Have the Shiite militia forming along with the Iraqi security forces engage them somewhere open and then bomb the bulk of that force into oblivion.

Once that is completed, establish a permanent base where we always have at least 10,000 troops. Pretty simple IMO.

 

[Cackalacky]

Nuke Tehran. End of this.

 

[BobD]

I don't WANT us to put troops on the ground, but I think we need to ASAP. The longer we wait the worse it's gonna get.

The Rangers and 82nd can handle this.

 

[notredomer23]

I don't WANT us to put troops on the ground, but I think we need to ASAP. The longer we wait the worse it's gonna get.

The Rangers and 82nd can handle this.

I don't think we need to have troops engage the enemy necessarily. I think if our bombers provide support for the Iraqis its game over for the ISIS. But once that is completed we definitely need a permanent presence because for 1) it will keep Iraq stable, and 2) we will have a permanent base ready to strike in the most unstable region in the world.

 

[irish1958]

This civil war has been going on for more than 1,500 years (since about 680 ce). We have zero chance of doing anything good there. Iran (Shiite) does not want a terrorist state (Sunni) on their border. Let them clean it up and they will.
Stay out of it. We never should have been there in the first place; the idea of an Arab Spring and democracy in this part of the world ignores 2,000 years of history and is nothing more than a pipe dream.
STAY OUT! We have done enough damage there already and wasted over two trillion dollars and thousands of lives

 

[BobD]

This civil war has been going on for more than 1,500 years (since about 680 ce). We have zero chance of doing anything good there. Iran (Shiite) does not want a terrorist state (Sunni) on their border. Let them clean it up and they will.
Stay out of it. We never should have been there in the first place; the idea of an Arab Spring and democracy in this part of the world ignores 2,000 years of history and is nothing more than a pipe dream.
STAY OUT! We have done enough damage there already and wasted over two trillion dollars and thousands of lives

I completely understand your sentiment. I would prefer we never fight, but I feel if we don't stay involved with this, we'll have a much worse and larger problem soon.

 

[Irish#1]

In hindsight I suppose we all knew this would eventually happen once we got out of there. I was for the first two Iraqi wars, but I'm not sure this time. If we let them take over, then there will be a lot of killing of Shiites including women and children. Do we allow the killing of innocent people? I don't know.

 

[NDRock]

The shitty part is we will be having this same conversation within 18 months of leaving Afghanistan.

 

[irish1958]

In hindsight I suppose we all knew this would eventually happen once we got out of there. I was for the first two Iraqi wars, but I'm not sure this time. If we let them take over, then there will be a lot of killing of Sunni including women and children. Do we allow the killing of innocent people? I don't know.

The Sunni are the bad guys doing the (for now) killing.

 

[irish1958]

In hindsight I suppose we all knew this would eventually happen once we got out of there. I was for the first two Iraqi wars, but I'm not sure this time. If we let them take over, then there will be a lot of killing of Sunni including women and children. Do we allow the killing of innocent people? I don't know.

The Sunnis are the bad guys doing the (for now) killing. They are pissed-off because the Shiites have been crapping on them since we pulled out.

 

[Irish#1]

The Sunni are the bad guys doing the (for now) killing.

You're right. I keep getting them mixed up.

 

[enrico514]

.

 

[Black Irish]

You're right. I keep getting them mixed up.

I think that's part of the problem. Most of the rest of the world, myself included, can't tell the difference. Conflicts like this don't seem to have a clear cut good guy; it's two sides taking turns as to who's being the bigger jack-off at any particular time. Does the U.S. need to get involved? Who knows? I hate to see us get into another costly, dragged out war and sacrifice even more lives. But how bad will it get if we don't get involved? And is that a gamble we can take? A bad situation all around.

 

[BobD]

I think that's part of the problem. Most of the rest of the world, myself included, can't tell the difference. Conflicts like this don't seem to have a clear cut good guy; it's two sides taking turns as to who's being the bigger jack-off at any particular time. Does the U.S. need to get involved? Who knows? I hate to see us get into another costly, dragged out war and sacrifice even more lives. But how bad will it get if we don't get involved? And is that a gamble we can take? A bad situation all around.

It's a very bad situation. We have two choices.

1. Stay involved and on top of this.

2. Lock our borders down, start drilling for oil at an epic pace in Alaska and off shore and send a Hallmark good luck card to Israel.

 

[jmurphy75]

This civil war has been going on for more than 1,500 years (since about 680 ce). We have zero chance of doing anything good there. Iran (Shiite) does not want a terrorist state (Sunni) on their border. Let them clean it up and they will.
Stay out of it. We never should have been there in the first place; the idea of an Arab Spring and democracy in this part of the world ignores 2,000 years of history and is nothing more than a pipe dream.
STAY OUT! We have done enough damage there already and wasted over two trillion dollars and thousands of lives

I've been saying this for years, unrest is all they know. Iran and Turkey need to be involved it's their backyard that needs tending to. I agree with all you've said 100%

 

[jmurphy75]

It's a very bad situation. We have two choices.

1. Stay involved and on top of this.

2. Lock our borders down, start drilling for oil at an epic pace in Alaska and off shore and send a Hallmark good luck card to Israel.

We have plenty of our own oil, hell right now China has oil rigs off of the coast of Cuba diagonal drilling into our oil reserves. We don't need them for oil, we need other countries to learn to sort things like this on a more active and responsible level. The middle east is used to America taking the lead to deal with things and it's about time Turkey, Saudi, and Iran put their big boy pants on and governed their own area. I hope to look for Russia and the EU to step up as well, a terrorist state is no good for anyone right now.

 

[GATTACA!]

Turn the entire region into glass. It's a bunch of wild animals that will never get long, never stop fighting, and never stop being a threat and nuisance to the rest of the world. Wipe the slate clean and try again.

 

[Cackalacky]

These people understand one thing. Brutality. Fuck'em. Make an example out of all of them. This is very un-Cackalacky but they are like the neighbors with shitty kids and bad parents. Sometimes a wild dog needs to be put down.

 

[Bluto]

These people understand one thing. Brutality. Fuck'em. Make an example out of all of them. This is very un-Cackalacky but they are like the neighbors with shitty kids and bad parents. Sometimes a wild dog needs to be put down.

Quick question. Wasn't all of Europe just like this up until 60 or so years ago? Facism, autocratic rulers, genocide, constant civil wars, rebellion, terrorist bombings and two global conflicts that killed ten of millions. What's going on in the present day Middle East pales in comparison to all that chaos. Also, most of one of my many sister in laws family lives in Iran. I can assure you they are not terrorists, so I would prefer it not be nuked.

In hindsight "containment" would have been the way to go (thanks GW) and that should be the policy moving forward.

 

[IrishinTN]

I would probably shy away from the nuclear approach, at least right off the bat. I think they definitely need to work with the existing security forces to hold back ISIS. I saw some of those videos showing them randomly machine gunning cars on the interstate and pics of them just murdering people on the street and it shocks me and breaks my heart. People just minding their own business.

If we had boots on the ground again, I would only be in favor of them operating from a very secure position offering help to the Shiites with as little direct involvement as possible (strategic planning, training and weapons). And when involvement was necessary, that they do so with extreme prejudice with engaged enemy. If random civilians need to be searched or arrests made or anything within the Iraqi citizens, let them do those things themselves. Keep our boys and girls out of that.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

You're watching a proxy war between Iran and their Shiite allies (Assad in Syria, Hezbollah, to a large degree Iraq's government) and the Gulf Cooperation Council countries (Sunni countries including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, U.A.E, etc). ISIS doesn't just support a large, expensive war by itself, they have massive support from around the Gulf. What happens when support wanes is what is happening with the Free Syrian Army, which just had a bunch of top commanders for "lack of support". This will continue on as long as the money, weapons, and training keeps flowing.

Granted the Iraqi government did bring this upon themselves to a large degree by politically oppressing the Sunni population, if the Sunnis want a civil war, they will loose. We saw this script in 2006, and it involved Shiite death squads wholesale slaughtering Sunni civilians. It's not pretty, and now there aren't US troops to hold them back. Meanwhile the bloodbath continues in Syria with no end in sight. Assad has too much support to be broken at the moment.

As much as the Shiite groups in the Middle East are far from our friends, at least they're not supporting Jihadis around the region. We need to pressure the Gulf states to stop supporting the ISIS, which who knows it will be effective or not. The capture of weapons and money in Mosul were a huge shot in the arm for ISIS on both sides of the Syria/Iraq border, so it might not matter right now what happens in the short term.

 

[BobD]

We have plenty of our own oil, hell right now China has oil rigs off of the coast of Cuba diagonal drilling into our oil reserves. We don't need them for oil, we need other countries to learn to sort things like this on a more active and responsible level. The middle east is used to America taking the lead to deal with things and it's about time Turkey, Saudi, and Iran put their big boy pants on and governed their own area. I hope to look for Russia and the EU to step up as well, a terrorist state is no good for anyone right now.

From word go, I believe it would take us two or more years to be able to drill and pump enough oil to replace what we get from that region. Does anyone know the actual scenario?
I think I remember hearing we lack the ability to refine enough crude also.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

From word go, I believe it would take us two or more years to be able to drill and pump enough oil to replace what we get from that region. Does anyone know the actual scenario?
I think I remember hearing we lack the ability to refine enough crude also.

Even with the drop in US consumption and increase in production over the last few years, we still import 40% of our oil needs. And regardless of how much fracking we do we're still going to be net importers, for many years to come. Besides, crude oil is a fungible product, we could be net exporters and the prices would still be high if international demand is also high.

The oil refining part is also a farce, we're a net exporter of refined petroleum products.

 

[GoIrish41]

Centuries old conflict ... we should stay out of it. If we would not have invaded and destabized Iraq we would likely not be faced with the current situation. Our involvement now will only prolong the inevitable and as solar n as we leave again, game back on. We might have thought of this a dozen years ago when we caused this to happen.

 

[jmurphy75]

From word go, I believe it would take us two or more years to be able to drill and pump enough oil to replace what we get from that region. Does anyone know the actual scenario?
I think I remember hearing we lack the ability to refine enough crude also.

Not exactly, we can currently support ourselves. The problem is all of our oil is sold outside of the US, simply because the profits are larger to do so.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Not exactly, we can currently support ourselves. The problem is all of our oil is sold outside of the US, simply because the profits are larger to do so.

That's not true at all, we are net importers of 5 million barrels a day of crude oil/petroleum products.

U.S. Net Imports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels per Day)

 

[irishff1014]

I don't WANT us to put troops on the ground, but I think we need to ASAP. The longer we wait the worse it's gonna get.

The Rangers and 82nd can handle this.

I agree 100%

 

[chicago51]

I don't think we should do a damn thing.

 

[Cackalacky]

Seriously.... I also don't think we should do anything. No support. No taking of sides. These people just want to fight. And they will continue to do so. Western Democracy is not something they want. They want theocracy and they can have it.