Guys, if you're worried... I'd jump now!

[Irish Envy]

Guys, it's going to get worse before it gets better. That said and as the topic states... it's you're worried, jump now! As I've explained in a couple other threads, the recruiting that was done by Willingham in his final two seasons and what was done by Weis during the coaching transition will leave the Irish team with many holes in 2007.

While we did have a stellar 2006 recruiting class (Ranked #6 overall by Rivals), our upperclassmen are weak, at best, with many of the 2004 class not even playing at Notre Dame anymore. The 2005 class was basically a wasted class as Ty didn't recruit hard knowing the writing was on the wall and Weis got into the game too late.

While we all hope the current freshmen (then sophomores or redshirt freshmen) will make big impacts, you have to come to grips that most will lack game experience which will account for many mistakes. If you haven't already jumped, take a look:

2004 Recruits - Seniors

<TABLE class=basiclist id=page1tab style="WIDTH: 100%; 10px: " cellSpacing=0><TBODY id=tableSignedPage1 name="tableSignedPage1"><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Abdel Banda</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Morristown, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Darrin Bragg</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>190</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>San Jose, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Brown</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>225</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Forestville, MD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Maurice Crum</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Tampa, FL</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Tregg Duerson</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle>4.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Wilmette, IL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Leo Ferrine</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Jersey City, NJ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Hoskins</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>190</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Grand Rapids, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Chauncey Incarnato</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-6</TD><TD align=middle>280</TD><TD align=middle>5</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Dover, OH</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Junior Jabbie</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Princeton, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>John Kadous</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-7</TD><TD align=middle>310</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Tucson, AZ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Terrail Lambert</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.43</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ventura, CA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Brandon Nicolas</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>260</TD><TD align=middle>4.86</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Santa Ana, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Ronald Talley</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>233</TD><TD align=middle>4.76</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Detroit, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Anthony Vernaglia</TD><TD align=middle>ATH</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>218</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Orange, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Darius Walker</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>197</TD><TD align=middle>4.45</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Buford, GA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>David Wolke</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>205</TD><TD align=middle>4.68</TD><TD align=middle>5.4</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Smyrna, TN</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Banda, Duerson, Hoskins, Incarnato, Kadous and Wolke are no longer with the team. The two 4 star prospects Jabbie and Vernaglia have never panned out with both moving positions and still not seeing significant playing time. The rest, aside from Walker and Crum are really fringe prospects and would have never been offered scholarships at the present day Notre Dame or prior to Willingham.

2005 Recruits - Juniors

<TABLE class=basiclist id=page1tab style="WIDTH: 100%; 10px: " cellSpacing=0><TBODY id=tableSignedPage1 name="tableSignedPage1"><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>David Bruton</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Miamisburg, OH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Paul Duncan</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-6</TD><TD align=middle>282</TD><TD align=middle>5.43</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Dallas, GA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>David Grimes</TD><TD align=middle>WR</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-9</TD><TD align=middle>157</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Detroit, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Derrell Hand</TD><TD align=middle>DT</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>298</TD><TD align=middle>5.62</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Philadelphia, PA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Ray Herring</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>187</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Melbourne, FL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Joey Hiben</TD><TD align=middle>TE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>235</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Waconia, MN</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>D.J. Hord</TD><TD align=middle>WR</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>195</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Kansas City, MO</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Patrick Kuntz</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>255</TD><TD align=middle>4.8</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Indianapolis, IN</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Kyle McCarthy</TD><TD align=middle>ATH</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>172</TD><TD align=middle>4.47</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Youngstown, OH</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Steve Quinn</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>208</TD><TD align=middle>4.62</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Philadelphia , PA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Asaph Schwapp</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>247</TD><TD align=middle>4.64</TD><TD align=middle>5.4</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Hartford, CT</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Evan Sharpley</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>200</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Marshall, MI</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Scott Smith</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>222</TD><TD align=middle>4.75</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Highland Park, IL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Michael Turkovich</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-7</TD><TD align=middle>280</TD><TD align=middle>5</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Bedford, PA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Kevin Washington</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>213</TD><TD align=middle>4.59</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Sugar Land, TX</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

This class was doomed when rumors surfaced that Willingham was going to be let go. That even caused us to lose two 4 star prospects that had made verbal pledges, WR David Nelson (to Florida) and DB Brandon Harrison (to Michigan). The two remaining prospects that Weis did snag, WR DJ Hord and TE Joey Hiben haven't seen the field as Hord has been injured and Hiben has left the team to concentrate on school. Other prospects in the list are mostly fringe, depth type of prospects.

The silver lining in the cloud is if Weis is able to pull off another steller class in 2007 (as he's on pace to) and has a solid class in 2008, the Irish will have turned the talent pool on this team around significantly in only three years. As guff said in another thread, it's like we've been put on probably and finally are coming out of it.

That said, things will get worse in 2007 before they get better in 2008. Jump now, but there will not be room for you on the bandwagon when Weis completes righting the ship.

 

[nshope]

Good post. I love your posts DUDE!!! You always back it up with some numbers like a hard-core analyst. That said, I KNOW WHAT THE ROCK IS SAYING (one of my favie lines from the WWE). I am definitely not looking forward to next year, which is probably why most of us put SOOOO much emphasis on this year because deep down, we knew there are rougher times ahead before the elusive championship comes home.

 

[Irish Envy]

Good post. I love your posts DUDE!!! You always back it up with some numbers like a hard-core analyst. That said, I KNOW WHAT THE ROCK IS SAYING (one of my favie lines from the WWE). I am definitely not looking forward to next year, which is probably why most of us put SOOOO much emphasis on this year because deep down, we knew there are rougher times ahead before the elusive championship comes home.

I appreciate the kind words.

Unfortunately, I hate talking about Notre Dame lacking talent to be honest, but a lot of people around here have very unrealistic expectations. If people are already freaking out when we lose to a talent-laden Michigan team, what is going to happen next year when our roster will be in even worse shape?

 

[Irish Envy]

And now, for some optimism:

<TABLE class=basiclist id=page1tab style="WIDTH: 100%; 10px: " cellSpacing=0><TBODY id=tableSignedPage1 name="tableSignedPage1"><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>James Aldridge</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.45</TD><TD align=middle>6.1</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Crown Point, IN</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Sergio Brown</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>184</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Maywood, IL</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Ryan Burkhart</TD><TD align=middle>K</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Wakarusa, IN</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Matt Carufel</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>280</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>St. Paul, MN</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Zach Frazer</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.83</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Mechanicsburg, PA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Jashaad Gaines</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>202</TD><TD align=middle>4.67</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Las Vegas, NV</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Barry Gallup</TD><TD align=middle>WR</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>175</TD><TD align=middle>4.44</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Wellesley, MA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Leonard Gordon</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>195</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Fort Campbell, KY</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Richard Jackson</TD><TD align=middle>WR</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>195</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Clermont, FL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Demetrius Jones</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>192</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>6.0</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Chicago, IL</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Raeshon McNeil</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>175</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Mocksville, NC</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Paddy Mullen</TD><TD align=middle>TE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>265</TD><TD align=middle>4.72</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>St. Louis, MO</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Eric Olsen</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>300</TD><TD align=middle>5.1</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Brooklyn, NY</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Robby Parris</TD><TD align=middle>WR</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.52</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Cleveland, OH</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Munir Prince</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>175</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>St. Louis, MO</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Konrad Reuland</TD><TD align=middle>TE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-6</TD><TD align=middle>239</TD><TD align=middle>4.75</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Mission Viejo, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Morrice Richardson</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>228</TD><TD align=middle>4.54</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Atlanta, GA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>John Ryan</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>240</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Cleveland, OH</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Luke Schmidt</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>230</TD><TD align=middle>4.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Jasper, IN</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Toryan Smith</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>230</TD><TD align=middle>4.65</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Rome, GA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Chris Stewart</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>340</TD><TD align=middle>5.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Klein, TX</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Kallen Wade</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>220</TD><TD align=middle>4.55</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Cincinnati, OH</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Darrin Walls</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>172</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>6.0</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Pittsburgh, PA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Bartley Webb</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-7</TD><TD align=middle>290</TD><TD align=middle>5.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Springdale, AR</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Daniel Wenger</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>280</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ft. Lauderdale, FL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>George West</TD><TD align=middle>ATH</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-8</TD><TD align=middle>172</TD><TD align=middle>4.53</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Oklahoma City, OK</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Will Yeatman</TD><TD align=middle>TE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-6</TD><TD align=middle>255</TD><TD align=middle>4.85</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>San Diego, CA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Sam Young</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-8</TD><TD align=middle>302</TD><TD align=middle>4.9</TD><TD align=middle>6.1</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ft. Lauderdale, FL</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

More 5-star prospects in this class then in the prior two classes: 2 to 0
More 4-star prospects in this class then in the prior two classes: 10 to 4

What does this equate to? Fewer raw, low level prospects and more talent to work with. As you've seen, we've already had several of these kids on the field this year including Sam Young, Darrin Walls, George West, Morrice Richardson and others. This class is the first real building block of the Weis era blueprint.

 

[Irish Envy]

Even more optimism:

<TABLE class=basiclist id=page1tab style="WIDTH: 100%; 10px: " cellSpacing=0><TBODY id=tablecommittedPage1 name="tablecommittedPage1"><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Jimmy Clausen</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>200</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>6.1</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Westlake Village, CA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Gary Gray</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>163</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>6.1</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Columbia, SC</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Duval Kamara</TD><TD align=middle>WR</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>209</TD><TD align=middle>4.6</TD><TD align=middle>6.0</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Hoboken, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Aaron Nagel</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.52</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Lemont, IL</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Kerry Neal</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>220</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Bunn, NC</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Andrew Nuss</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>283</TD><TD align=middle>5.1</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ashburn, VA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Steve Paskorz</TD><TD align=middle>ATH</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Pittsburgh, PA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Mike Ragone</TD><TD align=middle>TE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>221</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>6.0</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Cherry Hill, NJ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Trattou</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>230</TD><TD align=middle>4.8</TD><TD align=middle>5.8</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ramsey, NJ</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

More 5-star prospects in this partial class then in the prior two classes: 2 to 0
More 4-star prospects in this partial class then in the prior two classes: 5 to 4

Now can anyone really say that Willingham's recruiting wasn't an issue?

 

[DeeRock]

As I stated in several posts in the past- the ten year contract rendered to Weis was extremely immature- a good coach will get the maximum ability out of what he has to work with- "much like a potter working with clumpy soil"....I just don't want to hear the "excuses" 2, 4, 6 years down the road IF Weis doesn't turn the IRISH into national champions...

 

[marv81s]

it isn't excuses my man, it is the flat out truth. Weis got the max out of these guys last year and went to a major bowl game when ND wasn't even projected to have a winning season if I remember right. He's doing an outstanding job with good talent, not great talent.

The contract extension was necessary because ND needed to let everyone know that this coach will be here for a while, and that helps your recruiting. Look how bad the recruting fell off when the rumblings started about Davie's job security and Ty's, they didn't help matters either, but more often than not a recruit won't committ to a schools whose coach might not make it through their 4 years more often than not.

Lets end this stupid ass debate on whether CW deserved a contract extension or not already. He will turn things around at ND given the chance. Unless dumbshits in the media and the alum chase him out prematurely. Then what kinds of coach will we get if we chased another one out of here before they had a chance to work with the recruits they got. Once CW gets his type of guys in here, then he will work his system then in 3 or 4 years I want all you bastards that said that contract extension was premature to start lining up!

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

I appreciate the kind words.

Unfortunately, I hate talking about Notre Dame lacking talent to be honest, but a lot of people around here have very unrealistic expectations. If people are already freaking out when we lose to a talent-laden Michigan team, what is going to happen next year when our roster will be in even worse shape?

well i wasn't very happy about going to happy valley in '07 before this season even started.Now after a few weeks ago,i really hope it doesn't get ugly.
also next years schedule isn't the strongest,so we have a good chance next year of making a great bowl.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

He will turn things around at ND given the chance. Once CW gets his type of guys in here, then he will work his system then in 3 or 4 years I want all you bastards that said that contract extension was premature to start lining up!

Weis has already turned our program around. And he deserved the contract extension.

2006 will be tough and maybe 2007, but 2008 and beyond we will have great talent, not good talent. Clausen and company will be juniors by then.

 

[Irish Envy]

As I stated in several posts in the past- the ten year contract rendered to Weis was extremely immature- a good coach will get the maximum ability out of what he has to work with- "much like a potter working with clumpy soil"....I just don't want to hear the "excuses" 2, 4, 6 years down the road IF Weis doesn't turn the IRISH into national champions...

You can argue all day long on whether the 10 year contract was premature (not immature) or not, but there are several things that deem it worthy in my mind:

1) Performance - Look at what talent we've got (I sound like a broken record here but some of you just don't get it) and look how well we've performed with said talent. Odds are we'll finish up somewhere between 10-3 and 12-1. That's pretty damn good in my book if that indeed turns out to be the case.

2) Proven Experience - Weis has proven that he can win at the NFL level, and anyone that closely follows the NFL can agree that the Patriots have not been the same offensively since Weis has left. He has very good schemes and is an excellent playcaller. When the talent is there, he'll even be more apt to show this off like he was able to in New England when he had Brady, Dillon, Givens, et al.

3) Coaching Stability - Something that is often overlooked but is truly an invaluable asset is the stability of your coaching staff. If you take a look at the current top 5 teams (OSU, Auburn, USC, WV and Florida) each team's coach has been on the job for at least 6 years with Tommy Tuberville now entering his 8th season at Auburn. Only Urban Meyer in his 2nd year at Florida doesn't meet that criteria, but look for him to be a long term fixture in Gainesville.

Enclosing, coaches can only do so much. it's the job of the coach to prepare and motivate the players and the team. If you think Weis isn't an absolute taskmaster when it comes to preparation, you have very little knowledge about Weis and what he brings to the table.

The bottom line is that it ultimately boils down to players performing on the field, plain and simple. When you start the game with a less talented group of players, any and all mistakes made will be huge, as it was against a very talented Michigan squad.

Will Weis win multiple championships while at Notre Dame? Who knows! However, if you cannot see what he means to the program and what he has meant to this program in the short time he has been coach... well, I'm not sure anything can be done to appease you. This program, when he has 2, 3 or 4 solid classes in here will be a perennial Top 5-10 program year in and year out and will be in National Championship contention.

 

[lattedatte]

I appreciate the kind words.

Unfortunately, I hate talking about Notre Dame lacking talent to be honest, but a lot of people around here have very unrealistic expectations. If people are already freaking out when we lose to a talent-laden Michigan team, what is going to happen next year when our roster will be in even worse shape?

Exactly SVO.. We are in the best position we have been in some 10 - 15 years.

Also as to the current team, that is why I started the overachieving thread, I firmly believe we are. We went to BCS game and have a fine start to this year. Beating GT at GT and trouncing a ranked PSU team. With the type of talent that we should be going to the Poinsetta bowl with. Yeah we got trounced by UM, but we turned the ball over 5 times. I'll say this if we turn the ball over 5 times to MSU or UCLA we will lose by 14-20 to them. Bottom line is that is was ONE BAD GAME, ONE.

 

[irish4life99]

I realize that 2007 could be a rough year. But I'm kind of excited to see all the new talent develop. I'm looking forward to seeing how the competition for QB will play out. Will it be Jones, Frazier, or Claussen, all great athletes.

However, the most thing I'm looking forward to is flushing out Ty's recruits and moving forward. If I hear one more post of anyone defending Ty's recruiting I think I'm gonna puke.

 

[Irish Envy]

However, the most thing I'm looking forward to is flushing out Ty's recruits and moving forward. If I hear one more post of anyone defending Ty's recruiting I think I'm gonna puke.

That's the whole point to my posts of the last few days. Those people (those defending Willingham and claiming he has no part in this) literally have no leg to stand on and when presented with facts, none have responded. Why is that?

And it's not a knock on Willingham. I liked Ty Willingam. I've always said I think he is a good motivator and a great person. Even the players spoke glowingly about Willingham the man. However, in my opinion, he is an average coach and a below average recruiter. He just doesn't have the work ethic necessary to be a coach of a top program. He doesn't put in the work that Urban Meyer, Charlie Weis and others do.

Weis and staff have done an absolutely amazing job coaching these kids and pulling every last ounce of potential out of them. That's the reason you have 5-star Gary Gray committing after we got absolutely destroyed by Michigan. That's why you have Barksdale rating the visit a perfect 10. Kids that play the game know how good our staff is.

 

[NDgettysburg]

Guys, it's going to get worse before it gets better. That said and as the topic states... it's you're worried, jump now!

Hahahha.....jump now? Man, I lived through Gerry Faust. It can't get any worse than that.

 

[maison bleu]

3) Coaching Stability - Something that is often overlooked but is truly an invaluable asset is the stability of your coaching staff. If you take a look at the current top 5 teams (OSU, Auburn, USC, WV and Florida) each team's coach has been on the job for at least 6 years with Tommy Tuberville now entering his 8th season at Auburn. Only Urban Meyer in his 2nd year at Florida doesn't meet that criteria, but look for him to be a long term fixture in Gainesville.

The extraordinary stability of the Michigan coaching staff has been a huge part of the program's success. Bo S. was hired in 1969--the last time an outsider was brought in. Only three coaches in 37 years.

Sometimes it has been frustrating sometimes, and truth be told, I once chanted "Bo must go" at games in the Big House. Sometimes you have to shake things up, like OyDDD did this off season.

Still, it's better for a program than the kind of coaching churn ND has seen since Holtz. So I'd say signing CW for 10 years is a good thing, and hope he serves out the contract.

 

[scooper]

The extraordinary stability of the Michigan coaching staff has been a huge part of the program's success. Bo S. was hired in 1969--the last time an outsider was brought in. Only three coaches in 37 years.

Sometimes it has been frustrating sometimes, and truth be told, I once chanted "Bo must go" at games in the Big House. Sometimes you have to shake things up, like OyDDD did this off season.

Still, it's better for a program than the kind of coaching churn ND has seen since Holtz. So I'd say signing CW for 10 years is a good thing, and hope he serves out the contract.

I've been waiting to converse with you. Well, not really.

Anyway, Lloyd's changes of coordinators is evident. They have done a nice job to shake up the way the skunkbears play ball. (Hey, I don't have to totally kiss their ass, do I?) The schemes on both side of the ball seem much more focussed on attacking one weakness or the other.

Last year, there were rumors that Tenuta was headed to UM. I breathed a sigh of relief when that didn't happen. I guess I should be careful what I wish for.

Anyway, congrats.

 

[DeeRock]

REGARDLESS of how much you rant & immaturely rave- the proof will remain in the pudding....PLEASE MAINTAIN YOUR STANCE, IF THE CHIPS BEGIN TO FALL- DON'T RECANT.

Nuff'

 

[DeeRock]

He brought the 47+ point shellacking as well, I guess....Ridiculous- at the house to have 47 hung on you- this isn't Duke!

 

[maison bleu]

I've been waiting to converse with you. Well, not really.

Anyway, Lloyd's changes of coordinators is evident. They have done a nice job to shake up the way the skunkbears play ball. (Hey, I don't have to totally kiss their ass, do I?) The schemes on both side of the ball seem much more focussed on attacking one weakness or the other.

Anyway, congrats.

Thanks. We'll see if lasts.

It's funny that Miami's shakeup doesn't seem to have been as effective so far...

 

[scooper]

Thanks. We'll see if lasts.

It's funny that Miami's shakeup doesn't seem to have been as effective so far...

I don't think Miami or FSU have the offensive lines they need to succeed right now.

 

[VictorsValiant]

This is a really good perspective on future seasons at Nd. In my mind, 2007 will DEFINE Weis as a coach. Yes, he had many of Willingham's players and a lot of them were not elite, but he did have some good offensive players (also keep in mind that stars are merely correlations to success, they don't guarntee anything. Darius Walker and Mike Hart were both three stars. They are major factors today). More importantly, all these players were mature by the time Weis got there, maybe not in football terms, but in life terms.

However, in 2007 Weis is going to have to deal with an arrogant blowhard (Clausen), at a very important position mind you, and a whole host of other young and inexperienced adolescents. If he can't hold the team together at the start of the year, 2007 may be a wasted season, and the cycle that engulfed Willingham will only continue, since by then Weis will not have the recruits. Also, it's important to note that Willingham just had a big win against Fresno State at Washington, and I like thier offensive potential.

Maison blue is onto something when he talks about stablity within a program. It assures recruits that they'll always play for good teams. In other words, it minimizes risk. That allows us to recruit well EVERY YEAR, so when the seniors leave, there will be suitable replacements who have already developed in their redshirt year (most redshirt) and have watched from the sidelines for another year. If you have to play guys right away because you don't have the luxury of time, they you're taking far greater risks.

 

[irishfan81]

These last 2 classes in the Weis era are better than all of Losinghams classes. We have 2 Five Star and a lot of 4's I think that next year we will be starting Clausen, Gray, Trattou.

 

[ACamp1900]

This is a really good perspective on future seasons at Nd. In my mind, 2007 will DEFINE Weis as a coach.

I've been thinking that for at least a few months now myself... 8-9 wins next year could be HUGE in keeping the momentum going strong into the future and keeping the young talents coming to Notre Dame

 

[KMac151993]

See I personally think Svoboda that this kind of talk can only go so far. I disliked Ty just as much as anyone else and you are right about him being a great guy but a terrible recruiter and coach but doesn't it somewhat come back onto the new coach. I think Weis is still adjusting to being a college coach and has yet to fully grasp that one loss means a lot more then one loss in the NFL. I know we don't have a lot of true talent on this roster and I realize that Michigan could simply just outplay us based upon skill. I am more concerned with all the mental mistakes and the ego's on this team. I have no doubt Charlie is bringing in top talent and is an offensive mastermind but I think he has done a terrible job with discipline, the media and correcting obvious and easy to fix mental mistakes. It doesn't matter if your entire team is prep all-americans if you commit 10 penalties a game and have guys not even making an effort late in a game when your losing you're gonna get beat.

 

[Guest]

Worst case outcome with next years schedule....JMO

S 01 GEORGIA TECH WIN(GT will lose Ball and Johnson, plus it's a home game for us)
S 08 @ Penn State LOSS(PSU will be much better, and seeking revenge)
S 15 @ Michigan LOSS(It's in the big house, and they have Henne and Hart returning)
S 22 MICHIGAN ST. WIN(They lose Stanton and I think Ring)
S 29 @ Purdue WIN(Weis will never lose to Tiller, Purdue's program is a real mess)
O 06 @ UCLA LOSS(we'll probally win, but UCLA has Ben Olsen, and its on the road)
O 13 FREDO LOSS(We'll probably win, but FREDO is always tough)
O 20 SOUTHERN CAL LOSS(SO much talent)
N 03 NAVY WIN
N 10 AIR FORCE WIN
N 17 DUKE WIN
N 24 @ Stanford WIN


So WORST case scenario thats a 7-5 record, again thats worst case, I'd expect a 9-3 season with losses to Mich, PSU and USC. FREDO and UCLA could be tough, but I think we'll win both, everyone else on the sched is a definite win(GT, MSU, PUR,Navy,AF,Duke, Stan)

It's quite possible we could pull of an upset over one of the big three. Overall an 8 win season looks very possible, and in a rebuilding year that's pretty good. 08' and 09' could be the start of a dynasty because Weis will have his players in the system, and we won't have the depth issues we have right now, not to mention we'll probably have a talent upgrade at about every position than we do now.

 

[ACamp1900]

just a side point... SVO, love ya and all the hard work man, not trying to start stuff but everyone needs to take a look at Va. Tech's current roster and tell me you can't be a contender with mostly midgrade recruits...

 

[Irish Envy]

just a side point... SVO, love ya and all the hard work man, not trying to start stuff but everyone needs to take a look at Va. Tech's current roster and tell me you can't be a contender with mostly midgrade recruits...

VA Tech is a Top 20 program, but they are not a legit national championship contender. On top of that, they still get several five-star and a handful of four-star prospects each and every year. Go back and look at their last four recruiting classes. All solid. Plus, programs like VA Tech are able to go into the JUCO ranks and snatch players Notre Dame doesn't have access to. Just some things to consider.

 

[Irish Envy]

See I personally think Svoboda that this kind of talk can only go so far. I disliked Ty just as much as anyone else and you are right about him being a great guy but a terrible recruiter and coach but doesn't it somewhat come back onto the new coach. I think Weis is still adjusting to being a college coach and has yet to fully grasp that one loss means a lot more then one loss in the NFL. I know we don't have a lot of true talent on this roster and I realize that Michigan could simply just outplay us based upon skill. I am more concerned with all the mental mistakes and the ego's on this team. I have no doubt Charlie is bringing in top talent and is an offensive mastermind but I think he has done a terrible job with discipline, the media and correcting obvious and easy to fix mental mistakes. It doesn't matter if your entire team is prep all-americans if you commit 10 penalties a game and have guys not even making an effort late in a game when your losing you're gonna get beat.

I don't disagree one bit, but that's what the whole underlying premise was. When you are lacking top talent like we are, you cannot make mistakes. Turning the ball over, getting penalized on every series, not executing on key yardage downs... these are not things you can easily recover from. When you combine the mistakes like we have, they compound, which is what happened in the Michigan game.

For instance, a team like USC over the past several years could make throw and interception or live with a fumble. They knew when they got the ball back, they could very well score any time they handed Reggie Bush the ball, or went deep to Jarrett. While we have some talented skill positions players, we don't have these four- and five-star gamebreakers... kids that can take it to the house any time they touch the ball.

We will... but this year, and next, we just don't have these kind of guys that not only have that skill, but also have experience. It's going to take time and three to four solid classes before we have that level of talent at our disposal like USC, or Michigan or Ohio State has.

 

[ACamp1900]

VA Tech is a Top 20 program, but they are not a legit national championship contender. On top of that, they still get several five-star and a handful of four-star prospects each and every year. Go back and look at their last four recruiting classes. All solid. Plus, programs like VA Tech are able to go into the JUCO ranks and snatch players Notre Dame doesn't have access to. Just some things to consider.

their recruiting is FAR from top 20... rivals is down right now (of course)... but I remember seeing thier lists and ranking (usually around the top 40 in the country if memory serves) my point is recruiting is important but you can still coach up, Va tech is a great example...

 

[Irish Envy]

their recruiting is FAR from top 20... rivals is down right now (of course)... but I remember seeing thier lists and ranking (usually around the top 40 in the country if memory serves) my point is recruiting is important but you can still coach up, Va tech is a great example...

I never said their recruiting was Top 20, I said their program is a Top 20 program, but not a national title contender. Big difference there. They are generally in the top 40 recruiting classes annually, and I remember them being Top 15 in the last couple years... I think.

Of course you can coach up. But do you honestly think you can coach up consistent classes of two-star prospects and beat a team loaded with four- and five-star talent? Sure, you may be able to knock them off once, but beating these talent laden teams consistently? Go back and look at VT's record against big time opponents.