Official Visits for Michigan Game

[lattedatte]

Think about what you're saying here.



By that rationale, you have no respect for Lou Holtz and what he did during his time at Notre Dame. You'd probably have a pretty long list of coaches you would not respect based on that.

You can sell your uniform all day, but what happens once the boys get inside of them? Let's ask John Mackovic. The guys in burnt orange while he was there played like burnt turd brown. Giving Mack Brown zero credit for his recruiting hauls is pretty narrow minded.

They give out one National Title a year, sometimes two depending on what poll you're looking at. 84-19 in 8 years and he's won at least 10 games the last 5 consecutive seasons. I'd say that's pretty damn consistent even though he didn't 8-peat. We'd all have a lot less gray football hair as ND fans with a record like that in the past 8 years. It isn't even close.

Take a look at what John Mackovic was doing there before Brown got to Austin. I can save you all some time with one fact that stands out about his tenure there: Lost on more than one occasion to Baylor.

Then I'm narrow minded, I'm cool with that...

To compare Mack Brown to Lou is like comparing Big Mac to a Ribeye.

ND isn't and hasnt been for many years a team that kids dream their whole life playing for. Don't get me wrong thankfully there are still the Zibby's and Nagel's of the world out there but not like in Texas, not even close.

Then if you try and compare what holtz did with those schedules he played to UT and what they played the last 10 years, it isn't even close. The B12 is rediculously top heavy and has been for the 10 years brown has been there. Nebraska with osburne, stoops with oklahoma and thats about it. Plust until the last two years his Non-conference schedule was very weak.

Finally, the last 3-4 years under Holtz we didn't get the talent here, not like Brown gets at least.

OK I'm done. This is fun, much better than working...

 

[jiggafini19]

I'm not sure what the guy is doing wrong. He offers players from the school's home state and they sign with him.

Same thing SC, FSU, OSU and LSU are doing.

At least 9 wins and a bowl game. I guess by message board college footbal standards that is crap, but when looking at things from a more realistic standpoint he's rather consistent.

 

[lattedatte]

I'm not sure what the guy is doing wrong. He offers players from the school's home state and they sign with him.

Same thing SC, FSU, OSU and LSU are doing.

At least 9 wins and a bowl game. I guess by message board college footbal standards that is crap, but when looking at things from a more realistic standpoint he's rather consistent.

I didn't say he was doing anything wrong so much, just that he wasn't doing enough with the talent and schedule he had.. Give CW that talent and that schedule, NC every three years, no doubt... I'll give him credit for not spooking the recruits off...

I think certain coaches are just better game day coaches, I view Carr, Brown among the worst... I view CW, O'brien, Poodle(unfortunately) as the best..

Poodle is actually a great example, similiar talent, similiar schedule, 2 NC in 5 years and 30 some wins in a row...

 

[scooper]

I didn't say he was doing anything wrong so much, just that he wasn't doing enough with the talent and schedule he had.. Give CW that talent and that schedule, NC every three years, no doubt... I'll give him credit for not spooking the recruits off...

I think certain coaches are just better game day coaches, I view Carr, Brown among the worst... I view CW, O'brien, Poodle(unfortunately) as the best..

Poodle is actually a great example, similiar talent, similiar schedule, 2 NC in 5 years and 30 some wins in a row...

You may be overstating the talent at UT. I've shown breakdowns on this forum twice of the classes that made up UT's championship team. There was one #2 class. Another top 10 and a couple in the teens, if I remember correctly. Texas has talent. But so do LSU, OSU and USC, each who have won ONE BCS title. Schools like Oklahoma, Michigan, FSU, Miami, etc, are also bringing in comparable talent to Texas. Don't underestimate just how tough it is to win a national title.

 

[jiggafini19]

When it comes to consistent winning by coaches, Brown is second only to Bowden over the course of the last 15 years. I don't think he gets nearly enough credit.

He finally beats OU and wins the NC, but it was against a weak schedule. You can pretty much swing the argument the way you want it to sound when it comes to this kind of thing. They still went unbeaten and got the job done. I don't think you should ever have to apologize for that unless you have a I-AA like Auburn did that year.

I don't think an OrangeBlood alive would trade Brown in for Mackovic.

 

[lattedatte]

Maybe you are right, but it's hard to fit new information into my narrow mind....

But I do think(in general) the schedules are much harder in the SEC, B10 and ACC then the B12 and P10 and certainly BE..

I will never cave on the big mac to ribeye comment though, that is blasphemy ...

good discussion guys, just didn't want to work today and you helped me to accomplish that!!!

Go irish!!

 

[jiggafini19]

Maybe you are right, but it's hard to fit new information into my narrow mind....

But I do think(in general) the schedules are much harder in the SEC, B10 and ACC then the B12 and P10 and certainly BE..

I will never cave on the big mac to ribeye comment though, that is blasphemy ...

good discussion guys, just didn't want to work today and you helped me to accomplish that!!!

You might not be narrow minded, but come on. 84-19 deserves a smudge of credit. I can give the Poodle credit and I loathe him about as much as any sports figure I can think of. Brown's teams are very consistent.

It isn't blasphemy. Based on what you said, Lou had one NC in a pretty awesome span between 1988-1993 (64-9-1). Mack Brown has one during a pretty good span of his own 2000-2005 (65-11).

I'm not calling one a better coach than the other. But it's tough to say that you can't have respect for a guy who has a lot of talent just because he can't win more than one NC over a stretch. Those recrods are pretty damn identical.

Now we could argue that Lou got hosted in 1993, but that's ancient history and could have been easily fixed that they just beaten BC.

I look at a guy like Mark Richt and see Mack Brown pre-2005. Can't beat Florida, goes to a bowl each year and wins about 9 games. With that kind of consistency, sooner or later UGA's day will come. Just like it did for Brown and Texas.

 

[lattedatte]

You might not be narrow minded, but come on. 84-19 deserves a smudge of credit. I can give the Poodle credit and I loathe him about as much as any sports figure I can think of. Brown's teams are very consistent.

It isn't blasphemy. Based on what you said, Lou had one NC in a pretty awesome span between 1988-1993 (64-9-1). Mack Brown has one during a pretty good span of his own 2000-2005 (65-11).

I'm not calling one a better coach than the other. But it's tough to say that you can't have respect for a guy who has a lot of talent just because he can't win more than one NC over a stretch. Those recrods are pretty damn identical.

Now we could argue that Lou got hosted in 1993, but that's ancient history and could have been easily fixed that they just beaten BC.

I look at a guy like Mark Richt and see Mack Brown pre-2005. Can't beat Florida, goes to a bowl each year and wins about 9 games. With that kind of consistency, sooner or later UGA's day will come. Just like it did for Brown and Texas.

O he deserves credit for sure but he deserves an equal amount of criticism... I have ridiculed Cowher for the same rational.

I will not even approach the Mack Brown/Lou Holtz comparison.

I just don't think comparing the schedule Mack has played over the last few years compares to the SEC, B10...

 

[BGIF]

No, I don't respect a coach that year in and year gets the talent he does and only wins one national championship.

I didn't say he got everyone from Texas, it's a big state and it has a lot of players but he does get the majority of the top tier ones.

Tell you weren't amazed when ONE day after signing day Texas already had double digit commits for next year? is that mack brown or is that the uniforms???

And how much talent did he have at Tulane? He went from 1-10 his first year to 6-6 by his third. How much he have at Chapel Hill? North Carolina isn't the hotbed of recruiting talent, is it?

After opening 1-10 for back to back seasons, Brown won 6 games his third year, 7 the next and then put 9 and 10 wins season together. He slipped to 8 and 7 wins the following two seasons ('94 & '95) and hasn't won less than 9 since. He's won 9 games or more in 10 straight seasons and 12 out of the last 14.

Including this season he's 84-20 at Texas for a .807 winning percentage.

Those same uniforms were 31-28 under John Mackovic '92-'97

Those same uniforms were 31-28 under David McWilliams '87-'91

Those same uniforms were 20-14 under Freda Akers '84-'86.

During that 13 year run under 3 different head coaches those same uniforms had 5 losing seasons. They won 9 game or more only twice. Texas was 95-65-3 0.592 during that period with NO National Championships.

Darrell Royal won 9 or more games at UT 10 out of 20 seasons. Mack Brown's done that 9 time in 9 seasons.

Before last season I teased by Longhorn friends that Mack couldn't win the Big One.

Texas is 3rd on the all time winningest percentage list behind Michigan and Notre Dame and is also 3rd on total wins behind Michigan and Notre Dame.

Yet before Brown, Texas hadn't won a National Championship in 35 years since they won 3 in 7 years in '63, '69, and '70 under Darrell Royal.

Texas now has 4 National Championships in it's history (113 seasons). And Brown owns one of them.


As for keeping talent in his backyard, Faust, Holtz, and Davie all scored well in Texas before Brown. Bobby Taylor, Hunter the Punter, Rossum, Kleine, Berry, Denman, Miller, Wallace, Lane and others. After Brown, Davie and Willingham had some success in Texas with Givens and Duff. When Irons, Hilliard, and the #1 CB in the nation Clifford Jefferson were "stolen" under Mack's nose, ND recruitniks rejoiced. We were excited about Leitko whose a solide 5th year backup not the Defensive AA people projected. Did Brown see something Davie and Willingham didn't and let those guys go?

He would have liked Morton but Bobby was an A&M verbal till he learned their coaches had mislead him on his academic choice then he jumped to ND. Brown hasn't slammed the door shut but it's only open a crack now.

 

[BGIF]

... I just don't think comparing the schedule Mack has played over the last few years compares to the SEC, B10...

Yet you think Rodriguez is, and I quote, "a great coach" with an 39-22 0.639 record in the Big Least with out of conference toughies Chattanooga, Kent St, James Madison, Wofford, ECU, et al.

He does beat Rutgers, Temple, UCF, USF and all those other highly regarded programs, and then there's that hugh annual national interest game with Pitt. Is Morgantown burning yet?

Being Conference Perennial Co-Champion with 8 win seasons is a mark of distinction, isn't it?

 

[BGIF]

jiggafini Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Joseph Barksdale
Jimmy Clausen
Mike Ragone
Gary Gray
Greg Little
Andrew Nuss
Malcolm Smith
Michael Williams
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

BGI lists these players as visitors for the Michigan game.
==========================

Three verbals so far. What's your guess on the other five?

 

[jiggafini19]

The schedule in modern day college football is what it is. The argument can go in circles. Whatever ND does this season, they will have played all three service academies. Be ready to argue that one with any and all accolades this 2006 may achieve.

Schedules are made about half a decade in advance of when they're played. Last year, Weis' first at ND, Tennessee and Michigan each had one of their WORST football years in their program's very successful history. Pitt and Purdue, who had very good 2004 seasons, completely shit themselves in 2005.

Not our fault.

I am not comparing Brown and Holtz. I am drawing an analogy to a previous statement posted because I agree with Scooper: winning a national championship is not easy. To repeat, outright, is extremely impressive. How many active guys can say they have more than one at their current school? Two, three?

 

[jiggafini19]

Joseph Barksdale
Jimmy Clausen
Mike Ragone
Gary Gray
Greg Little
Andrew Nuss
Malcolm Smith
Michael Williams

Three verbals so far. What's your guess on the other five?

Smith, longshot.

I like ND's chances with all the rest. Cautiously optimistic on Barksdale, but the others are A-okay.

 

[scooper]

People criticized our schedule last year after the fact, when before the season, it looked tough. You can't blame ND for Tennessee, Michigan, Purdue, etc, having down years.

Likewise, you can't knock Mack Brown and Texas for the Big 12 being down. OU is a perrenial top 10. A&M is to blame for their own suckitude, not Texas. Tech was a good team. Not to mention, they played at Columbus and beat the team that took the Irish to the woodshed. I don't see knocking UT's schedule in their title year.

 

[scooper]

How many active guys can say they have more than one at their current school? Two, three?

JoePa and Bowden are the only ones I can think of. Carrol kind of has two, but LSU fans might disagree (as do I)

 

[Dannyboy Ayers]

jiggafini Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Joseph Barksdale
Jimmy Clausen
Mike Ragone
Gary Gray
Greg Little
Andrew Nuss
Malcolm Smith
Michael Williams
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

BGI lists these players as visitors for the Michigan game.
==========================

Three verbals so far. What's your guess on the other five?

out of those 7 on the list i think that 6 will be irish when the smoke clears

 

[Dannyboy Ayers]

i don't think that smith comes to our neck of the woods

 

[lattedatte]

this is hilarious, everyone is making the same arguement that I made for WVU's schedule this year... I hope no one hear is being contradictory... As for ND's schedule, we are different, we do not have the likes of Baylor, Rice, Kansas, on our schedule every year, then add in the fact that they play North Texas and Sam Houston St that is 5 automatics every year. Air force and navy could beat each of those teams every year. Sorry guys, prior to OSU being on the schedule it was Arkansas, sure a fine team but not like what we play. Prior to that it was North Carolina. They play one maybe two big games a yeary where the talent is at par with theirs, other than last year, they lost those games.

The reason they won that NC is one reason, Vince Young, sure you have to give credit to mack brown for not forcing a system on VY that he wasn't comfortable with but that's about it and for getting him to UT. But my aunt lives in Texas and I remember reading an article where he was asked why he choose UT and he responded, "where else would I go".

 

[scooper]

this is hilarious, everyone is making the same arguement that I made for WVU's schedule this year... I hope no one hear is being contradictory... As for ND's schedule, we are different, we do not have the likes of Baylor, Rice, Kansas, on our schedule every year, then add in the fact that they play North Texas and Sam Houston St that is 5 automatics every year. Air force and navy could beat each of those teams every year. Sorry guys, prior to OSU being on the schedule it was Arkansas, sure a fine team but not like what we play. Prior to that it was North Carolina. They play one maybe two big games a yeary where the talent is at par with theirs, other than last year, they lost those games.

The reason they won that NC is one reason, Vince Young, sure you have to give credit to mack brown for not forcing a system on VY that he wasn't comfortable with but that's about it and for getting him to UT. But my aunt lives in Texas and I remember reading an article where he was asked why he choose UT and he responded, "where else would I go".

Nobody's being contradictory. Texas's schedule is tougher than WVU's by far. Kansas was in a bowl last year. Baylor was close and beat some bowl teams. Texas doesn't play Rice every year. Kansas could have and probably would have beaten Navy last year. And have you actually paid attention to what Air Force has done the last couple years? Not good.

But I'm not here to compare to ND's schedule. There's nothing wrong with our schedule. There is also nothing wrong with Texas. The Big 12 is still stronger top to bottom than the Big East. And you can make the Arkansas argument all you want, but the fact is, in the year Texas won the title, they beat OSU on the road.

As for winning it because of Vince Young....don't think for a second this team would have a shot at the title this year if Brady Quinn were to blow out his knee in the first quarter against Michigan.

 

[Irish Envy]

I'm hearing that Armando Allen may not make it up now due to doctor's orders.

 

[lattedatte]

Nobody's being contradictory. Texas's schedule is tougher than WVU's by far. Kansas was in a bowl last year. Baylor was close and beat some bowl teams. Texas doesn't play Rice every year. Kansas could have and probably would have beaten Navy last year. And have you actually paid attention to what Air Force has done the last couple years? Not good.

But I'm not here to compare to ND's schedule. There's nothing wrong with our schedule. There is also nothing wrong with Texas. The Big 12 is still stronger top to bottom than the Big East. And you can make the Arkansas argument all you want, but the fact is, in the year Texas won the title, they beat OSU on the road.

As for winning it because of Vince Young....don't think for a second this team would have a shot at the title this year if Brady Quinn were to blow out his knee in the first quarter against Michigan.

The big 12 is much harder than the BE, I agree... Hands down, even said that in a prior post. But WVU couldn't help that Miami, VT and BC defected and the fact they were forced to play Marshall by the Gov and the fact that VT refused to play them in future yrs.

O well, I guess we will all just have to agree to disagree.

But here is a look at next yrs non conference opponents, whoa....

Texas Christian (S 8)
at Central Florida (S 15)
Rice (S 22)

and they play rice in 5 out of the next 6 yrs.

 

[scooper]

The big 12 is much harder than the BE, I agree... Hands down, even said that in a prior post. But WVU couldn't help that Miami, VT and BC defected and the fact they were forced to play Marshall by the Gov and the fact that VT refused to play them in future yrs.

O well, I guess we will all just have to agree to disagree.

But here is a look at next yrs non conference opponents, whoa....

Texas Christian (S 8)
at Central Florida (S 15)
Rice (S 22)

and they play rice in 5 out of the next 6 yrs.

You're right. The BE is not WVU's fault. But they could try to strenghten their non-con schedule.

You're right, Texas' non-con schedule for next year is not as tough. Though right now TCU is at the level of a lot of good BCS conference programs. They are far better than any non conference teams on WVU's schedule.

 

[jiggafini19]

This will be a very good weekend for visits. They should nail down a pretty good majority of the guys who are coming to town.

 

[Irish Envy]

This will be a very good weekend for visits. They should nail down a pretty good majority of the guys who are coming to town.

I really hope the rumor about Allen turns out to be just that.

 

[lattedatte]

You're right. The BE is not WVU's fault. But they could try to strenghten their non-con schedule.

You're right, Texas' non-con schedule for next year is not as tough. Though right now TCU is at the level of a lot of good BCS conference programs. They are far better than any non conference teams on WVU's schedule.

Let's all sing cumbyya and smoke a peace pipe, great discussion!!!

This year and next yr's non-conf schedule is putred but here are WVU future Non-conf opponents(auburn, mich st, and flor. st):

2007 Season (12 Games)
Currently 6 Home -6 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/1/2007 Ball State H MAC
9/8/2007 Marshall A C-USA
TBA Maryland A ACC
TBA East Carolina H C-USA
TBA Mississippi State H SEC

2008 Season (12 Games)
Currently 7 Home - 5 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/6/2008 Auburn A SEC
9/13/2008 Marshall H C-USA
TBA Villanova H A-10
TBA East Carolina A C-USA

2009 Season (12 Games)
Currently 5 Home - 5 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/5/2009 Auburn H SEC
10/3/2009 Marshall TBD C-USA
TBA TBA
TBA East Carolina H C-USA

2010 Season (12 Games)
Currently 6 Home - 4 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/8/2010 Marshall A C-USA
TBA Michigan State H Big Ten
TBA Maryland H ACC
TBA TBA TBD TBD

2011 Season (12 Games)
Currently 4 Home - 6 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/13/2011 Marshall H C-USA
TBA Michigan State A Big Ten
TBA Maryland A ACC
TBA TBA TBD TBD

2012 Season (12 Games)
Currently 6 Home - 3 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/8/2012 Florida State H ACC
10/3/2012 Marshall H C-USA
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD

2013 Season (12 Games)
Currently 3 Home - 5 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/14/2013 Florida State A ACC
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD

 

[lattedatte]

I really hope the rumor about Allen turns out to be just that.

mee too, that kid needs to be here for this game...

 

[scooper]

Let's all sing cumbyya and smoke a peace pipe, great discussion!!!

This year and next yr's non-conf schedule is putred but here are WVU future Non-conf opponents(auburn, mich st, and flor. st):

2007 Season (12 Games)
Currently 6 Home -6 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/1/2007 Ball State H MAC
9/8/2007 Marshall A C-USA
TBA Maryland A ACC
TBA East Carolina H C-USA
TBA Mississippi State H SEC

2008 Season (12 Games)
Currently 7 Home - 5 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/6/2008 Auburn A SEC
9/13/2008 Marshall H C-USA
TBA Villanova H A-10
TBA East Carolina A C-USA

2009 Season (12 Games)
Currently 5 Home - 5 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/5/2009 Auburn H SEC
10/3/2009 Marshall TBD C-USA
TBA TBA
TBA East Carolina H C-USA

2010 Season (12 Games)
Currently 6 Home - 4 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/8/2010 Marshall A C-USA
TBA Michigan State H Big Ten
TBA Maryland H ACC
TBA TBA TBD TBD

2011 Season (12 Games)
Currently 4 Home - 6 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/13/2011 Marshall H C-USA
TBA Michigan State A Big Ten
TBA Maryland A ACC
TBA TBA TBD TBD

2012 Season (12 Games)
Currently 6 Home - 3 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/8/2012 Florida State H ACC
10/3/2012 Marshall H C-USA
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD

2013 Season (12 Games)
Currently 3 Home - 5 Away
Date Opponent Site Conference
9/14/2013 Florida State A ACC
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD
TBA TBA TBD TBD

TBD will kick their ass. Repeatedly.

 

[lattedatte]

TBD will kick their ass. Repeatedly.

They are a lot tougher then Villanova, ball state, for sure....

 

[Irish Envy]

TBD will kick their ass. Repeatedly.

LMFAO! Rep.

 

[lattedatte]

TBD will kick their ass. Repeatedly.

I hear that they have "a player to me named later" at QB.. and "future consideration" just named them the leader in recruiting... look out!!!