CFN ranks ND's defense 40th

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Guest

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CFN ranks ND's defense 40th, thats a fair ranking but they have the likes of UConn, Pitt and Cuse ahead of us. No way those teams have a better D than us. Pitt for example couldn't stop the run or pass last season, we're solid against the run just can't stop the pass.

IMO this years D should be a boderline top 25 defense. The talent is there and we have more depth with the incoming freshman. Not to mention guys like Hand, Kuntz, Lambert, Ferrine, Vernaglia, Bruton, Talley etc should be better with another year under their belt. If the defense struggles again this year Weis needs to find a replacemnt for Minter, because he has enough talent to work with IMO.

They have USC's defense ranked 6th which is a little high IMO. Granted SC has a ton of talent on D, but their D was almost as bad as our D was last year, yet everyone assumes they'll have one of the top defenses this year while our D will only improve marginally. I think all these experts are going to be surprised at how much our D improves this season.



Preview 2006 Unit Rankings
Defenses
1. Miami
The defense will once again be among the best in the nation with size, speed, and backups that would start for about 100 other teams. The safeties are among the best in Miami history with Brandon Meriweather and Kelly Phillips each deserving of All-America consideration and Anthony Reddick and Lovon Ponder more than good enough to step in without missing a beat. Cornerback is the X factor needing Glenn Sharpe to be ready to roll after suffering a knee injury last year and Randy Phillips needing to step up and be a consistent playmaker. There are too many great defensive ends and linebackers for the starting spots, and the tackles have the potential to be a strength after a little bit of starting experience.

2. Texas
Lost in the dominance of the 2005 offense was how good the defense was finishing tenth in the nation and eighth in scoring D. There are only four losses, but safety Michael Huff, corner Cedric Griffin, linebacker Aaron Harris and tackle Rodrique Wright were All-America caliber players. The cupboard is hardly bare with a tremendous end tandem of Tim Crowder and Brian Robison sure to be among the best in the country and more than enough talent in the back seven to fill up the All-Big 12 team. The big question marks are at tackle next to Frank Okam and at middle linebacker, where Rashad Bobino and Roddrick Muckelroy will battle it out, but there's not a lot to be worried about.

3. Oklahoma
The defense should be among the best in America even though there aren't too many sure-fire, household name All-Americans. It begins on the end with the return of Larry Birdine and Josh Williams to join Calvin Thibodeaux and C.J. Ah You to improve upon the nation's fourth best sacking D. Rufus Alexander is an All-America-to-be at outside linebacker, and Zach Latimer in the middle isn't far behind. The secondary will be a lot better than it'll get credit for.

4. Nebraska
All the press seems to be about the offense, but it's the defense that'll carry the Huskers to a big season. The front seven is loaded with talent, depth, and NFL prospects led by ends Adam Carriker and Jay Moore. Nebraska led the nation in sacks and tackles for loss, and should be among the best in the nation with all the great players up front and so many fantastic linebackers that the D might use a little 3-4. The question is the secondary that has speed, but needs to be more productive after starting to come on over the second half of last year.

5. Florida
Most of the publicity will be focused on the offense, but it'll be the defense that carries the Gators. The front seven should be terrific as long as injuries don't strike the linebackers. There are plenty of options on the line with tackle Marcus Thomas and ends Ray McDonald, Jarvis Moss and Derrick Harvey all good enough to be in the hunt for all-star honors. If corners Reggie Lewis holds up, the secondary will be fine even after losing three starters. Safety Reggie Nelson is about to emerge as an all-star.

6. USC
What the D lacks in overall experience it makes up for in ridiculous talent and athleticism. The linebacking corps is one of the best in America with a third string that would form a killer starting trio for about 95 other teams. The secondary doesn't have any big names, but that will change quickly if some of the superstar freshmen play well right away and if there's good competition for the safety spots. End Lawrence Jackson and tackle Sedrick Ellis are great players to build around on a line that should have few problems getting into the backfield. The return of former defensive coordinator and former Idaho head coach Nick Holt adds even more punch.

7. California
Eight starters return to a defense that should just now be hitting its stride with speed, athleticism and lots and lots of talent. The front seven should be a rock if all the top prospects come through as expected. The ends are deep, talented, and should have few problems getting into the backfield all season long, while Brandon Mebane is one of the nation's best tackles. The linebacking corps is one of the best in the nation with last year's recruiting class about to become tremendous. Cornerback is set with Daymeion Hughes and Tim Mixon sure to earn all-star honors, but the safeties are a big concern with no developed depth and two new starters.

8. Auburn
If you liked last year's Auburn defense, you'll enjoy more of the same. The key move is the position switch of star safety Will Herring to linebacker, but there are players to fill in on the weakside if the experiment doesn't work out. The D is stronger on the outside than the middle with tremendous tackling corners David Irons and Jonathan Wilhite returning, and defensive ends Marquies Gunn and Quentin Groves sure to be among the league's best pass rushers. There's not a lot of size in the linebacking corps, but that's by design going with smaller, more athletic players. There could be big problems if there are any early injuries at tackle.

9. Virginia Tech
The Hokies led the nation in total defense last season and finished second in scoring defense. While there are some major losses to overcome, the same blitzing, attacking style that made the D so successful last season should work again. Everything will revolve around the back seven led by the 1-2 linebacking punch of Vince Hall and Xavier Adibi. The secondary should be solid even with top corner Jimmy Williams off to the NFL. The concern is on the line that loses three all-stars and needs some tackles to step up and shine right off the bat. Chris Ellis will be one of the ACC's new star ends.

10. Michigan
New defensive coordinator Ron English will be the man under the microscope as he attempts to unwrap the athleticism and talent that have been hiding behind the just-safe-enough-to-get-beat D. There won't be wild blitz schemes or anything crazy, but there'll be a bit more aggressiveness in an attempt to come up with more big plays. The potential is there to be great with a fast back seven with too many good safeties to get on the field at once. The line should be better with the likely emergence of Alan Branch as a star tackle and LaMarr Woodley about to blow up as a pass rushing terror on the outside.

11 LSU SEC
12 Penn State Big Ten
13 Ohio State Big Ten
14 Clemson ACC
15 Georgia Tech ACC
16 Florida State ACC
17 Tennessee SEC
18 South Florida Big East
19 Georgia SEC
20 Boston College ACC
21 Missouri Big 12
22 Colorado Big 12
23 Wisconsin Big Ten
24 NC State ACC
25 Mississippi SEC
26 TCU M-West
27 Mississippi State SEC
28 Alabama SEC
29 West Virginia Big East
30 Arizona Pac 10
31 Pitt Big East
32 Louisville Big East
33 Iowa Big Ten
34 Maryland ACC
35 Connecticut Big East
36 Syracuse Big East
37 Arkansas SEC
38 Tulsa CUSA
39 Utah M-West
40 Notre Dame Ind
41 Iowa State Big 12
42 North Carolina ACC
43 Washington State Pac 10
44 Texas Tech Big 12
45 Arizona State Pac 10
46 Virginia ACC
47 Kansas Big 12
48 Kansas State Big 12
49 Baylor Big 12
50 Cincinnati Big East
51 Fresno State WAC
52 Michigan State Big Ten
53 Southern Miss CUSA
54 Boise State WAC
55 Wake Forest ACC
56 Texas A&M Big 12
57 Oregon Pac 10
58 Houston CUSA
59 UTEP CUSA
60 Toledo MAC
61 UCLA Pac 10
62 South Carolina SEC
63 Oregon State Pac 10
64 Oklahoma State Big 12
65 Minnesota Big Ten
66 Washington Pac 10
67 East Carolina CUSA
68 San Diego State M-West
69 Colorado State M-West
70 Duke ACC
71 Purdue Big Ten
72 Rutgers Big East
73 BYU M-West
74 Vanderbilt SEC
75 Kentucky SEC
76 Illinois Big Ten
77 Marshall CUSA
78 UAB CUSA
79 Indiana Big Ten
80 UCF CUSA
81 Navy Ind
82 Akron MAC
83 Northern Illinois MAC
84 Stanford Pac 10
85 Nevada WAC
86 Northwestern Big Ten
87 SMU CUSA
88 New Mexico M-West
89 Wyoming M-West
90 Memphis CUSA
91 Kent State MAC
92 Arkansas State Sun Belt
93 Miami Univ. MAC
94 Western Michigan MAC
95 Troy Sun Belt
96 Hawaii WAC
97 Bowling Green MAC
98 Air Force M-West
99 UNLV M-West
100 Louisiana Tech WAC
101 Ohio MAC
102 Central Michigan MAC
103 Tulane CUSA
104 Rice CUSA
105 Army Ind
106 UL Lafayette Sun Belt
107 Eastern Michigan MAC
108 MTSU Sun Belt
109 FIU Sun Belt
110 Idaho WAC
111 Ball State MAC
112 UL Monroe Sun Belt
113 Buffalo MAC
114 North Texas Sun Belt
115 Utah State WAC
116 Florida Atlantic Sun Belt
117 San Jose State WAC
118 New Mexico State WAC
119 Temple Ind


http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2006/Preview/UnitRankings_Defense.htm
 
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Guest

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Florida may have a good front seven, but from what I understand they may have some question marks in the secondary. Plus their D was pretty inconsistent last season.

Cal at 7 is a little too high IMO, I'm never ipmressed with Pac 10 defenses, except USC.

Michigan at 10 is very high considering how much their D has underachieved the last couple of years.

The more and more I look at this list the more confident I become that our D will rank in the top 25. I'm not sold with a lot of the teams they have ranked ahead of us as having better defenses. The main thing is that we stay healthy
 
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NDAlumSon

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40th is way off base. I'm with you. Top 25 defense to start the year with improvement all throughout the year.
 

Irish Envy

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There is no damn way this defense should not be in the Top 20. Absolutely none. Abi, Laws, Landri and Zibby are all first day NFL draft picks. Our secondary is drastically improved and we have athleticism at the LB spots.

No. Damn. Way.
 
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NDAlumSon

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And you gotta know that Charlie is gonna use that slight as motivation.
 

marv81s

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Ole Miss, South Florida, Syracuse, UCONN ahead of ND? This ranking system is way off base, ND's Defense is much, much better than what CFN thinks. IS IT SEPT 2nd YET??!! Let's get the season started already!!
 
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ShivaIrish

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I wouldn't worry about about CFN's rankings for anything. They're pretty unreliable.
 
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rontdtarchala

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Fact gentlemen...Oh yeah of little faith...I know you guys think I'm crazy but I'm telling you we will finish the year defensively in the top 15...maybe top 10

oh no the boy has lost his miiiiiiiiiiiiiind! hahaha
 

BGIF

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If the basis is NCAA defensive stats I'd be estatic if ND finished 40th considering the caliber of opponents. This isn't West Virginia's schedule.

40th would be a huge leap in performance.

CFN's rating's usually are suspect.

Phil Steele rates ND's DLine #10 and the Secondary #5. LBs don't make his Top 29.
 

tommy

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i cant even find anything in my little pea brain to say about this uconn what planet is this from im happy to hear more confidence in the d they must be out of there mind
 

Vince Young

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Weren't we like 70th last year or something?

I'll take 40th. If we had the 40th-ranked defense last year, that would've been enough for us to top USC and MSU, and would've put us right in the thick of things with Ohio State.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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40th is way off base. I'm with you. Top 25 defense to start the year with improvement all throughout the year.

40th off base? Why's that? We were worse last year...much worse.

Given that, I believe we will improve to show the CFN guys wrong...but let's face it this defense has EVERYTHING to prove.
 

BGIF

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If the basis is NCAA defensive stats I'd be estatic if ND finished 40th considering the caliber of opponents. This isn't West Virginia's schedule.

40th would be a huge leap in performance.

CFN's rating's usually are suspect.

Phil Steele rates ND's DLine #10 and the Secondary #5. LBs don't make his Top 29.

Keep in mind these ratings don't reflect Leikto's return to the team nor Travis Thomas move to LB.

Nor do they reflect the Offensive being even more productive thus keeping the Defense off the field more.
 
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A2McGowan

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CFN has a long history of being way off base........they also ranked ND as the "most-overrated" program in the history of college ball. Ahem, hacks.
 
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solo

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I'd say the only people that know how good or bad our defense is are the coaches that see them in practice every day.

As a fan, all we can really go by is what we saw last year. We really don't know how much our guys have improved or not. We have no idea if the new starters are better than the guys they replaced. You can believe the preseason hype, you can read the magazines, you can subscribe to premium sites. But in my opinion, until we see this team play, we really won't have any clue.
 

scooper

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I'm feeling generous this morning. Reps for solo. Good post.

I honestly think one person may have been the difference last year from the 70th defense to the 40th. A better pass rush would have worked wonders. Had Ty not talked Tuck into leaving, I think we'd have gone down to Texas in the national title game. Think about it. It was that close. Just a few more sacks and rushed passes would have made that much difference.
 
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NDAlumSon

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40th off base? Why's that? We were worse last year...much worse.

Given that, I believe we will improve to show the CFN guys wrong...but let's face it this defense has EVERYTHING to prove.

Gotta admit, I didn't study the calculus used by CFN or check its historical basis. I got enough homework. I was just using a seat-of-the-pants observation of ND's ranking in comparison to everybody else on that list. And on that basis, 40th seemed a little suspect.

If using an historical and nominal arithmetical standard, such as I assume CFN is using and last year, after crunching all the numbers, our defense ranked 70th, then yes, 40th would be an excellent pre-season ranking.

Rankings aside, I'll reserve judgement on how our defense looks until after GT.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Gotta admit, I didn't study the calculus used by CFN or check its historical basis. I got enough homework. I was just using a seat-of-the-pants observation of ND's ranking in comparison to everybody else on that list. And on that basis, 40th seemed a little suspect.

If using an historical and nominal arithmetical standard, such as I assume CFN is using and last year, after crunching all the numbers, our defense ranked 70th, then yes, 40th would be an excellent pre-season ranking.

Rankings aside, I'll reserve judgement on how our defense looks until after GT.

That's cool. I feel the same way. Honestly, it's always so hard to tell...and I have been burned so many times these last 9 years.

We can beat anybody in practice...but it's proven on the field.

[my PREDICTION is that our D will rank about 30th...which is more than enough to win a NC]
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Keep in mind these ratings don't reflect Leikto's return to the team nor Travis Thomas move to LB.

Nor do they reflect the Offensive being even more productive thus keeping the Defense off the field more.

Well, given that Leitko has stated he is slower and TT is green at LB, does that mean CFN ranked us too high?

I am happy with Leitko returning and TT moving to LB. But c'mon neither of these guys has any experience really contributing to the Defense. Hopefully they will step up, but if you were to count them as part of the Defese, there are no indicators to suggest they strengthen it to a large degree.

Look at Leitko's experience:
2004 (JUNIOR): Played in all 12 games, mostly on special teams ... made five tackles (two solos) on the season ... had a solo tackle versus Michigan State ... assisted on one tackle in the Michigan, Purdue and Navy games ... recovered a fumble and recorded one tackle against Washington ... played 4:47 and made 92 special teams appearances.

2003 (SOPHOMORE): Played in 10 games as a reserve defensive end ... made 12 tackles (five solos), including 1.5 tackles for loss (nine yards) and one quarterback sack (eight yards) plus a forced fumble ... played on the defensive line and on special teams ... made his first career appearance for the Irish versus Washington State, recording a tackle ... added two tackles against Navy ... recorded a career-best five tackles and forced a fumble versus Brigham Young ... made four stops against Syracuse ... played 31:55 and had 50 special teams appearances.

He's not exactly a seasoned veteran.
 
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solo

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That's cool. I feel the same way. Honestly, it's always so hard to tell...and I have been burned so many times these last 9 years.

We can beat anybody in practice...but it's proven on the field.

[my PREDICTION is that our D will rank about 30th...which is more than enough to win a NC]

I am going to disagree with the part of your post where you state that a 30th ranked D will win us the title. You could very well be correct, but historical data doesn't agree. I looked at the last 10 national champions. The lowest rated defense (scoring D) was 15. That was Florida in 1996. They also had the #1 ranked offense. The lowest rated offense was 44 (Michigan in 1997, they had the #1 D).

I am old school and still think that defense wins championships. Without a top 15 D, I doubt we win the title.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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I am going to disagree with the part of your post where you state that a 30th ranked D will win us the title. You could very well be correct, but historical data doesn't agree. I looked at the last 10 national champions. The lowest rated defense (scoring D) was 15. That was Florida in 1996. They also had the #1 ranked offense. The lowest rated offense was 44 (Michigan in 1997, they had the #1 D).

I am old school and still think that defense wins championships. Without a top 15 D, I doubt we win the title.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that a great defense is a BIG asset. HOWEVER, given the teams out there today, I think we can pull it off with less.

Let's face it, the Texas D was not that great. They were blessed with an easy schedule in many ways. And they gave up more points to USC than we did.
 

scooper

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I am going to disagree with the part of your post where you state that a 30th ranked D will win us the title. You could very well be correct, but historical data doesn't agree. I looked at the last 10 national champions. The lowest rated defense (scoring D) was 15. That was Florida in 1996. They also had the #1 ranked offense. The lowest rated offense was 44 (Michigan in 1997, they had the #1 D).

I am old school and still think that defense wins championships. Without a top 15 D, I doubt we win the title.


Since you've recently had the numbers in front of you, could you do a combined ranking for each season? Meaning an average of each champ's O and D ranking? That might give us a better idea of what level of offense can overcome what level of defense.
 
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solo

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Since you've recently had the numbers in front of you, could you do a combined ranking for each season? Meaning an average of each champ's O and D ranking? That might give us a better idea of what level of offense can overcome what level of defense.

I did this a few weeks ago, but don't have the numbers still crunched. If memory serves me correctly, for the last 10 champs:

Avg O = 14
AvgD = 5

That also inlcuded 2 very poor offensive football teams in 1997 Michigan (44) and 2002 Ohio St (41). If you took out those two champs and just did an 8 year average, it was:

avgO = 7
AvgD = 5

But I will crunch the numbers again and repost if I am incorrect
 
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solo

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OK...I'll do better than that and post the data. Here are the champins for the last 10 years and the rank of their scoring offenses and scoring defenses.

Year...........team............Off..............Def
2005...........TX...............1.................8
2004..........USC.............6..................3
2003.........LSU..............19................1
2002.........OSU..............41...............2
2001.........Miami...........3..................1
2000..........Okla............7..................7
1999..........FSU...........4..................10
1998..........Ten...........17.................9
1997..........Mich.........44.................1
1996..........Fla............1..................15

Avg..........................14.3................5.7

Meaning? You gotta play GREAT defense and good offense to win a title. The worst D to win a title in the last decade was 15th.
 

scooper

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Thanks. That's pretty good info. it definately looks like the defense has some work to do, but I don't think a title is unreachable.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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OK...I'll do better than that and post the data. Here are the champins for the last 10 years and the rank of their scoring offenses and scoring defenses.

Year...........team............Off..............Def
2005...........TX...............1.................8
2004..........USC.............6..................3
2003.........LSU..............19................1
2002.........OSU..............41...............2
2001.........Miami...........3..................1
2000..........Okla............7..................7
1999..........FSU...........4..................10
1998..........Ten...........17.................9
1997..........Mich.........44.................1
1996..........Fla............1..................15

Avg..........................14.3................5.7

Meaning? You gotta play GREAT defense and good offense to win a title. The worst D to win a title in the last decade was 15th.

Interesting stats. Like I said, I guess I would challenge the TX and maybe even USC ones in the last two years. They had some easy teams to make their D's look good. LSU was legit in 2003. OSU in 2002 was legit as well.
 
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