Iran's Hizbollah says ready to attack US, Israel

[LOVEMYIRISH]

it is sad sure, but it is also a reality of war. I think the story of the bully in a bar is a good analogy of what Israel has been putting up with for years. Now that they are standing up and saying enough and sticking up for themselves you have just about all the nations telling them to stop. Why? Why should they stop?

Some of the problems the Israelis suffer are truly unfair. Some are self imposed.

Did you know that for years Palestinian families were not allowed to travel between towns to look for work? Or see Family? Or buy food? Or to return to their homes? Their businesses are strangled, families separated, etc.

Israel has done this in the name of self-defense...because they were suffering suicide bombings, etc. They felt they had to do it. And maybe they did.

But the Palestinians call it "The Living Death".

When you give someone nothing to live for...they will give you something to die for...it's an old rule that the Israelis have forgotten.

This situtation was caused by BOTH sides. It's merely the next step in escalation.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

At that time period we were also prepared for a war...right now we have national guard units as our front line military, fighting a World War right now would not bode well for us with the current status of our armed forces.

We were not prepared in the 30's for war...not until it hit us. Even then it took us years to mobilize the force necessary to put forces where we needed them.

Years.

Our forces were using outdated equipment that was inferior to the enemy. We did not have enough planes, boats, or even guns.

Right now our equipment and mobilization power is superior to ANYONE on the planet...bar none...

What's impressive about that is that our current troops still don't get what they want.

But want and need are two different things.

 

[irishwavend]

We are more than prepared...WWIII would mean Mutually Assured Destruction for the Middle East. And when I refer to MAD, I mean, we mutually agree that we will turn that sand over there into a radioactive parking lot.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

We are more than prepared...WWIII would mean Mutually Assured Destruction for the Middle East. And when I refer to MAD, I mean, we mutually agree that we will turn that sand over there into a radioactive parking lot.

And our oil supply is gone, our food supplies contaminated, etc. Sure...sure...

Here's a question for you:
How do you threaten an enemy with weapons if he is HAPPY to die? And worse yet, you would have to live through the horror that was the outcome.

No WW3 in the Middle East will not be fought with Nukes. Unless the French drop them. They already promised to do that to any nation that inflicts a large scale terror attack against them.

 

[KMac151993]

What are you talking about? We are INIFINITELY more prepared now than in 1941.

We were not prepared in the 30's for war...not until it hit us. Even then it took us years to mobilize the force necessary to put forces where we needed them.

Years.

Our forces were using outdated equipment that was inferior to the enemy. We did not have enough planes, boats, or even guns.

Right now our equipment and mobilization power is superior to ANYONE on the planet...bar none...

What's impressive about that is that our current troops still don't get what they want.

But want and need are two different things.

We were prepared by the time the war began......if we weren't then how do you explain how the war had already turned by late 1942 a little less then a year after it began. Once again people mislead by what you always hear.

 

[KMac151993]

AH... I got you now. I think many Americans would also be amazed at the lack of tools the American military has to use. Sure we are very sophisticated but many units are using equipment that is 20+ years old. The downsizing of the American military and cuts in funding from the early 90's caught up with us when we went into Iraq. For example, the Marine Corps is the least funded branch of the military. We get 6 cents of every tax dollar spent on defense. It sucks but we make do with what we have.

irishtexan I really commend your efforts by serving in the military you are truely a hero if you do that, and not the same kind of hero that runs the ball across the goal line but a real HERO. I saw a picture of a solider in Iraq...the guy was laughing about it because the grenades he was using were made for Vietnam....in essance its not really that funny that we are using such outdated materials to send our young men over there with. So I understand you 100% and once again sorry if my first post came out the wrong way.

 

[marv81s]

KMac, don't assume that all of our materials and equipment is in PPS (PissPoorShape). We have, for the most part, up to date equipment and supplies. Could it be better? Absolutely! But for the most part things are not as bad as the media makes it out to be. No excuse for why some of our men and women had to be driving around in HUMVEEs that weren't as protected as they should be, but all the same, we still have the most advanced military in the world. Recruitment numbers are fairly good, I think todays youth is overall too soft and undiscipline and that is the problem, more so than this war in Iraq. but that is my opinion.

 

[KMac151993]

KMac, don't assume that all of our materials and equipment is in PPS (PissPoorShape). We have, for the most part, up to date equipment and supplies. Could it be better? Absolutely! But for the most part things are not as bad as the media makes it out to be. No excuse for why some of our men and women had to be driving around in HUMVEEs that weren't as protected as they should be, but all the same, we still have the most advanced military in the world. Recruitment numbers are fairly good, I think todays youth is overall too soft and undiscipline and that is the problem, more so than this war in Iraq. but that is my opinion.

But ready for a war against say China...who has the worlds largest airforce and obviously has the bodies to throw at us....maybe its not the fact that we have the advanced materials but rather that we don't know how to use them.

 

[marv81s]

I would say our military situation isn't as dire as the media and some members of congress make it out to be. I gotta believe the high end brass when they say that today's military is better trained today than it was 10 years ago, or ever. I believe that Saddam had a fairly large military before we took it him. I think our Air Force could handle China's air force, but like you said, it will come down to, Do we have enough? I have heard some say that we don't have enough bullets to take out China, but I believe we are better trained. We have been training for North Korea and China for a long time. Even when I was in the marines 17 years ago we were training for conflict with North Korea and China. Problem might just come down to, whose gonna back us up in case it does happen. I don't have any faith in the UN or too many of our allies.

 

[KMac151993]

I would say our military situation isn't as dire as the media and some members of congress make it out to be. I gotta believe the high end brass when they say that today's military is better trained today than it was 10 years ago, or ever. I believe that Saddam had a fairly large military before we took it him. I think our Air Force could handle China's air force, but like you said, it will come down to, Do we have enough? I have heard some say that we don't have enough bullets to take out China, but I believe we are better trained. We have been training for North Korea and China for a long time. Even when I was in the marines 17 years ago we were training for conflict with North Korea and China. Problem might just come down to, whose gonna back us up in case it does happen. I don't have any faith in the UN or too many of our allies.

If you look at our airforce though what have we developed over the past 20 years in terms of aircraft? The stuff we have while very good is getting old and worn out.

 

[irishtexan]

You have to remember though, China might have more personnel and aircraft, but their budget for all that antiquated crap isnt half of the U.S. militaries. So they may have numbers, but not the budget for keeping things updated. With over 1 billion people I am sure it would be hard to. As of 2004 China spends 24 billion American dollars on defense. That is way, way below the U.S. Its like my grandfather told me when he was on Iwo Jima about the Japanese.

"Shit, they thought we would run out of bullets before they did people. They didnt care, they figured if they had numbers in mass they would beat us back. That straregy was obviously dumb as hell."

Granted this is about the Japanese, but the same concept applies. You have to think though that if war ever came with the Chinese and the U.S. that it would be very long and tough.



source used: http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

But ready for a war against say China...who has the worlds largest airforce and obviously has the bodies to throw at us....maybe its not the fact that we have the advanced materials but rather that we don't know how to use them.

We are more than ready for a war against China. They are not ready for a war with us.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

We were prepared by the time the war began......if we weren't then how do you explain how the war had already turned by late 1942 a little less then a year after it began. Once again people mislead by what you always hear.

Ummm let's see...could it be they were fighting a multi-front war? Russia comes to mind. Without them we would have not been invading Europe until the late 40's at best. (have you gotten around to reading Winston Churchill's series yet?)

Our equipment was substandard, etc. However, we turned factories around, called up the troops, and pumped out average equipment.

Our strategy today is FAR different.

We do not maintain a personnel base in the army for a fight today, but assume we will call up troops from reserves...and then eventually a draft.

ALSO, we assume that NO enemy can get to us. We have more carrier fleets than any one (or even 2) countries. Simply put, unless they toss nukes at us...we are untouchable. [UNLESS THOSE EVIL CANUCKS INVADE!!!] The oceans are a strategic buffer against any invading force. So, any war that breaks out, we know we will need to send troops to...but even more so than WW2 we will find our home land protected...and our shipping lanes secure.

In WW2 we lost amazing amounts of shipping just off the coast of the US. I suggest you pick up Homer Hickam's book on this: Torpedo Junction. Other good reads are: Operation Drumbeat & Black May by Michael Gannon.

If you want to know why we really managed to survive while dealing with both Germany and Japan realize that the most important assets in our Navy were secure...since the Japanese failed to sink our aircraft carriers that fateful morning.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

You have to remember though, China might have more personnel and aircraft, but their budget for all that antiquated crap isnt half of the U.S. militaries. So they may have numbers, but not the budget for keeping things updated. With over 1 billion people I am sure it would be hard to. As of 2004 China spends 24 billion American dollars on defense. That is way, way below the U.S. Its like my grandfather told me when he was on Iwo Jima about the Japanese.

"Shit, they thought we would run out of bullets before they did people. They didnt care, they figured if they had numbers in mass they would beat us back. That straregy was obviously dumb as hell."

Granted this is about the Japanese, but the same concept applies. You have to think though that if war ever came with the Chinese and the U.S. that it would be very long and tough.

You are spot on.

Also, the tempo of the war would be at our discretion...not theirs. We can project military might, they cannot.

 

[KMac151993]

Ummm let's see...could it be they were fighting a multi-front war? Russia comes to mind. Without them we would have not been invading Europe until the late 40's at best. (have you gotten around to reading Winston Churchill's series yet?)

Our equipment was substandard, etc. However, we turned factories around, called up the troops, and pumped out average equipment.

Our strategy today is FAR different.

We do not maintain a personnel base in the army for a fight today, but assume we will call up troops from reserves...and then eventually a draft.

ALSO, we assume that NO enemy can get to us. We have more carrier fleets than any one (or even 2) countries. Simply put, unless they toss nukes at us...we are untouchable. [UNLESS THOSE EVIL CANUCKS INVADE!!!] The oceans are a strategic buffer against any invading force. So, any war that breaks out, we know we will need to send troops to...but even more so than WW2 we will find our home land protected...and our shipping lanes secure.

In WW2 we lost amazing amounts of shipping just off the coast of the US. I suggest you pick up Homer Hickam's book on this: Torpedo Junction. Other good reads are: Operation Drumbeat & Black May by Michael Gannon.

If you want to know why we really managed to survive while dealing with both Germany and Japan realize that the most important assets in our Navy were secure...since the Japanese failed to sink our aircraft carriers that fateful morning.

I have read the later before....my point was being that we as a nation we were more prepared then what most people believe. We were ready to fight a war by the middle of 1941 and even earlier. Everyone is always lead to believe that we had absolutely nothing and had no training and nothing in the works when Pearl Harbor was bombed and the reality is we did and in essance were even prepared for that. It is the same silly history rumor just like the rumor of the mighty Panzers running over the Polish calvary in 1939. In terms of our Navy we knew from the outset that we would never have to deal with any threat of surface warfare from Germany so our only real threat was in the Pacific. While we lost millions of tons of supplies in the Atlantic to the U-Boats we had the supplies to still throw at it and that is my point.....we were willing to say we can lose X amount of tonnage to the U-Boats but Y amount will still get through and we will still be successfull.....in this day and age can we really say we can lose X amount of ships/planes/armor and still be ok and triumph. I am not saying we can not overcome these losses either and switch into war production mode...but when I turn on the TV and see people bitching about how they can't take their IPods on a plane I see a far different America then the one that stared down Dec. 7th.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I have read the later before....my point was being that we as a nation we were more prepared then what most people believe. We were ready to fight a war by the middle of 1941 and even earlier. Everyone is always lead to believe that we had absolutely nothing and had no training and nothing in the works when Pearl Harbor was bombed and the reality is we did and in essance were even prepared for that

We had the bodies, not the equipment.

we were willing to say we can lose X amount of tonnage to the U-Boats but Y amount will still get through and we will still be successfull....

Also, the chiefs of the Navy were super-focused on the Pacific...they really did not do a cost-benefit analysis of Pacific versus Atlantic warfare.

but when I turn on the TV and see people bitching about how they can't take their IPods on a plane I see a far different America then the one that stared down Dec. 7th.

I do and I don't. We are fat and happy. Back then we were isolationist. We thought nothing in Europe affected us.

It's a different world now...and we have not fought a massive war since WW2. It's tough to say how people would react now. I suspect if there were something that truly threatened the US and its lifeblood attitudes would change.

As we proved after 9/11, we can strike back swiftly and with vengence. As we proved in Iraq, we can be easily distracted by tertiary issues.

I lived in London briefly while the IRA was still bombing and you see how people naturally adjust their lives and ignore inconveniences that anti-terror efforts cause.

The Brits are accustomed to these things, we are not...it's a very interesting thing to see and compare. [I am an Anglophile/Scotophile who spends as much time in Britain as possible]

 

[KMac151993]

We had the bodies, not the equipment.

I will agree with you on everything but that.

 

[BGIF]

... for the record I know more about the time period of 1935-1945 then probably anyone on these boards. ...

Why is that? What is your justification for such a statement?