George Zimmerman Trial

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irishpat183

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It was a joke dude. Are you that humorless that you can't recognize a joke?



Please find one instance when I simply dismissed any one who has "facts" and "evidence". This is a discussion board. When people disagree, they present opposiing points of view. A good discussion involves explaining why you have a point of view and not the other point of view. If that offends you, you really should find a new hobby other than hanging out on a discussion board. What is not appropriate on discussion boards is unsolicited personal attacks on a person who is having a discussion with others. That is what derails a discussion quicker than anything else. ... That and when people make statements so ignorant and insensitive that they are impossible to ignore -- like Martin had horrible parents, just days after the trial for the murder of their dead son. Many have argued that Martin was not a "kid" at all but for the purposes of your argument, he is and should have been grounded and his cell phone taken away. But being a young black person walking at 7:10 p.m. through a neighborhood where he was a resident of a guest who owns a home there, you are arguing that it was appropriate for Zimmerman to assume he is a scary, hoodie-wearing, black thug whom everyone should stop referring to as a kid because some other black teens robbed a house in the neighborhood at some time in the past. "Facts" are not what Zimmerman says. That is his version of the facts, and when someone speaks about his story as if it is a fact, I point that out. Is that what is p*ssing you off? What about all those "facts" and "evidence" you hold in such high regard? Shouldn't someone point out when assumptions are being made ... or is just me who is making assumptions? Give me a freakin break.

So are you saying that GZ was totally off base given TM's violent past, tattoos, drug use, throwing the bird/flashing a gun on camera, calling GZ a "cracker".... Does TM not fit the discription of a "thug"?

I think he was about as thuggish as it gets.
 

Rhode Irish

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The defense showed his wounds that support the story [maybe wounds Martin inflicted when he was defending himself from an unprovoked attack?], a witness that TM was on top [which proves that Zimmerman's life was in danger? What even makes this witness credible?], a counter to the claims that the voice was TM [stupidest testimony in the history of courts - somebody's friend testifying that isn't their friend's scream. Ok.....], character witnesses [meaningless], an expert to prove that the angle of entry supports the story presented by GZ [even if the expert is credible (was he compensated? Did he gain exposure for himself by testifying), all the angle would show is the relative positions at the second the shot was fired. It has nothing to do with what happened first. I don't think losing a fight you started gives you the right to shoot someone], and a bunch of experts to explain that GZ is a wuss [exactly - the trial was a circus and a mockery].

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Somebody said that anything that happened before the fight is irrelevant. That may be an accurate statement of the law in Florida (which is dumbfoundingly stupid), but it is clearly horseshit from a human perspective. I think ONLY what happened before the fight matters. If the guy stalked the kid and confronted him, he deserved to get his *** kicked. That didn't give him the right to shoot the kid. Nothing in the world could ever convince me otherwise.
 

Irish Houstonian

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I wish people would stop bashing the juror for just doing her job. We asked her to make a decision based on the evidence presented to her, and now that she's given the "wrong one" suddenly she's some racist idiot.

This whole thing is spinning out of control into massive GroupThink.
 

Irish Houstonian

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Somebody said that anything that happened before the fight is irrelevant. That may be an accurate statement of the law in Florida (which is dumbfoundingly stupid), but it is clearly horseshit from a human perspective. I think ONLY what happened before the fight matters. If the guy stalked the kid and confronted him, he deserved to get his *** kicked. That didn't give him the right to shoot the kid. Nothing in the world could ever convince me otherwise.

So you're saying that, hypothetically, if Martin jumped out of a bush, attacked Zimmerman, and tried to kill him by bashing his head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman would have deserved it for following him, and shouldn't have any right of self-defense? You're entitled to your opinion, but that's just twisted.
 

Bluto

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Somebody said that anything that happened before the fight is irrelevant. That may be an accurate statement of the law in Florida (which is dumbfoundingly stupid), but it is clearly horseshit from a human perspective. I think ONLY what happened before the fight matters. If the guy stalked the kid and confronted him, he deserved to get his *** kicked. That didn't give him the right to shoot the kid. Nothing in the world could ever convince me otherwise.

Agree completely.
 

irishpat183

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Somebody said that anything that happened before the fight is irrelevant. That may be an accurate statement of the law in Florida (which is dumbfoundingly stupid), but it is clearly horseshit from a human perspective. I think ONLY what happened before the fight matters. If the guy stalked the kid and confronted him, he deserved to get his *** kicked. That didn't give him the right to shoot the kid. Nothing in the world could ever convince me otherwise.


Thank god we don't send people to prison for life because of the "human perspective".


And I could say that a little thug like TM had it coming...and nothing in the world could convince me otherwise, no? Maybe if he had a better attitude, wasn't a racist little sh*t...he simply could've answered GZ's questions and been on his way.

See how that works? That's why we base law on FACTS. Not assumptions. You assume that GZ was the aggressor and was looking for a fight
 

Bluto

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So you're saying that, hypothetically, if Martin jumped out of a bush, attacked Zimmerman, and tried to kill him by bashing his head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman would have deserved it for following him, and shouldn't have any right of self-defense? You're entitled to your opinion, but that's just twisted.

If someone was stalking me with a gun (i.e. Zimerman) you bet your *** I would try to get the drop on them. These arguments that imply Martin "deserved to be shot" are the equivalent of the person who blames a women for being raped for "dressing slutty". It's pathetic.
 

Bluto

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Thank god we don't send people to prison for life because of the "human perspective".


And I could say that a little thug like TM had it coming...and nothing in the world could convince me otherwise, no? Maybe if he had a better attitude, wasn't a racist little sh*t...he simply could've answered GZ's questions and been on his way.

See how that works? That's why we base law on FACTS. Not assumptions. You assume that GZ was the aggressor and was looking for a fight

So anyone with a gun can stop and interrogate anyone they meet on the street? Awesome! Actually people get sent to prison all the time due to the "human perspective". They are however, usually Black.
 

Woneone

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If someone was stalking me with a gun (i.e. Zimerman) you bet your *** I would try to get the drop on them. These arguments that imply Martin "deserved to be shot" are the equivalent of the person who blames a women for being raped for "dressing slutty". It's pathetic.

I wasn't aware Martin knew Zimmerman had a gun.
 

Irish Houstonian

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If someone was stalking me with a gun (i.e. Zimerman) you bet your *** I would try to get the drop on them.

What if someone was following you from a distance you while they were on their cellphone, and you didn't know they had a gun? And do you think you're entitled to kill them in that case, and they have no right to defend themselves? Like Rhode Irish, you're also entitled to your opinion, but that's not the law, thankfully.
 

irishpat183

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If someone was stalking me with a gun (i.e. Zimerman) you bet your *** I would try to get the drop on them. These arguments that imply Martin "deserved to be shot" are the equivalent of the person who blames a women for being raped for "dressing slutty". It's pathetic.

Martin didn't know GZ had a gun...nice try. And that's pathetic.

So anyone with a gun can stop and interrogate anyone they meet on the street? Awesome! Actually people get sent to prison all the time due to the "human perspective". They are however, usually Black.

And way to take it outta context. Let's just dismiss that it was at night, in a neighborhood that had a string of robberies committed by guys in hoodies.

Name a case.
 

Rhode Irish

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So you're saying that, hypothetically, if Martin jumped out of a bush, attacked Zimmerman, and tried to kill him by bashing his head against the sidewalk, Zimmerman would have deserved it for following him, and shouldn't have any right of self-defense? You're entitled to your opinion, but that's just twisted.

Wait....that is what you got out of my post? Wouldn't hiding in the bushes and jumpin out and attacking the guy be "before the fight," and therefore fit perfectly into what I said? My point was that, in the scenario you presented, Martin would not have been justified in killing Zimmerman if he jumped out of the bushes trying to kill him and then got his *** kicked. There is just no part of me that believes that happened.

Pat, talking about a dead kid like that - a kid who was so thuggish he was armed with skittles and wearing a hooded sweatshirt - may make you feel better, but it makes you look horrible. Lots of 17 year olds take stupid pictures and say stupi things, that doesn't mean they are bad kids or deserve to die. I don't think Martin was much different than most kids in his socioeconomic situation, but even if he were a punk and a gangbanger, he wasn't doing anything wrong when Zimmerman decided to follow him, so it doesn't really matter.
 

FearTheBeard

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I really dont see how someone following him through a neighborhood would give him right to turn around and assault the guy. I understand it isnt Zimmermans responisbility or place to be police but it still isnt ok for Martin to attack him. Martin could have ran away and called police as well.
 

NDinL.A.

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It was a joke dude. Are you that humorless that you can't recognize a joke?

A YOUNG MAN IS DEAD!!!! How insensitive can you be to joke at a time like this? Things like this are what derails a discussion quicker than anything else.
Please find one instance when I simply dismissed any one who has "facts" and "evidence".

You've done it throughout the entire thread! Are you serious?

This is a discussion board. When people disagree, they present opposiing points of view. A good discussion involves explaining why you have a point of view and not the other point of view. If that offends you, you really should find a new hobby other than hanging out on a discussion board.

Hold up, you are the one who said I was picking a fight with you, YOU are the one being offended. I love opposing viewpoints. When I was a mod people would plead with me to ban members of other fanbases, but I always gave them a chance to see if they could provide outside views without hanging themselves.

Thing is, I like hearing what other people have to say, and acknowledging when they have good points or when their facts and evidence make sense. You, OTOH, have merely dismissed facts and evidence, even when presented by lawyers and jurors on the case who watched every single minute of the case (which you admitted that you did not). You come up with some boloney about them ignoring other facts (which aren't even facts lol) or testimony, and therefore they are wrong and you are right.

What is not appropriate on discussion boards is unsolicited personal attacks on a person who is having a discussion with others. That is what derails a discussion quicker than anything else. ...

Never got personal with you, but nice try. You did call my view idiotic though, which I found to be a tad bit rude but whatever, I can handle that.

That and when people make statements so ignorant and insensitive that they are impossible to ignore -- like Martin had horrible parents, just days after the trial for the murder of their dead son.

Yeah, kinda like when people make jokes about such a sensitive topic, just days after a 17 year-old kid died. Don't you hate those people?

Many have argued that Martin was not a "kid" at all but for the purposes of your argument, he is and should have been grounded and his cell phone taken away.

So I was right. Thanks bro.

But being a young black person walking at 7:10 p.m. through a neighborhood where he was a resident of a guest who owns a home there, you are arguing that it was appropriate for Zimmerman to assume he is a scary, hoodie-wearing, black thug whom everyone should stop referring to as a kid because some other black teens robbed a house in the neighborhood at some time in the past.

When did I argue that?????? What in the world are you talking about? My argument that started this is that his parents did a horrible job. You agreed up above. Now you're just making stuff up.

"Facts" are not what Zimmerman says. That is his version of the facts, and when someone speaks about his story as if it is a fact, I point that out.

Says the guy who has passed off his version of what happened as truth this entire thread.

Is that what is p*ssing you off?

Pissed? Not even close. No idea what you are talking about.
What about all those "facts" and "evidence" you hold in such high regard?

I hold the truth in high regard. And the truth is that GZ was rightfully acquitted by virtue of the evidence brought forth in the case, and the truth is that TM's parents did him a horrible disservice by parenting him the way they did.

Shouldn't someone point out when assumptions are being made ... or is just me who is making assumptions? Give me a freakin break.

I guess the lesson here is that it is OK when YOU do it, but when someone comes back at you, it is not OK. Got it.
 
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irishpat183

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Wait....that is what you got out of my post? Wouldn't hiding in the bushes and jumpin out and attacking the guy be "before the fight," and therefore fit perfectly into what I said? My point was that, in the scenario you presented, Martin would not have been justified in killing Zimmerman if he jumped out of the bushes trying to kill him and then got his *** kicked. There is just no part of me that believes that happened.

Pat, talking about a dead kid like that - a kid who was so thuggish he was armed with skittles and wearing a hooded sweatshirt - may make you feel better, but it makes you look horrible. Lots of 17 year olds take stupid pictures and say stupi things, that doesn't mean they are bad kids or deserve to die. I don't think Martin was much different than most kids in his socioeconomic situation, but even if he were a punk and a gangbanger, he wasn't doing anything wrong when Zimmerman decided to follow him, so it doesn't really matter.

I was making a point about assumptions. Don't confuse it with how I feel. Nobody deserves to die like that. But to say that GZ had an *** kicking coming because he was following a person that fits a description from recent crimes, or that he deserved it...its ridiculous as well.

And we're all still stuck on this assumption that GZ instigated the fight....which, if you look at both men's past, it's more probable that TM was the agressor.
 

irishpat183

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I really dont see how someone following him through a neighborhood would give him right to turn around and assault the guy. I understand it isnt Zimmermans responisbility or place to be police but it still isnt ok for Martin to attack him. Martin could have ran away and called police as well.

No he couldn't have. Because that would mean that TM had some fault in this. We can't have that. We NEED this to be some big bad white dude gunning down this poor kid in cold blood, to get our voting base rallied and gun laws passed.


oops! Just spoiled the plan!
 

drayer54

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Somebody said that anything that happened before the fight is irrelevant. That may be an accurate statement of the law in Florida (which is dumbfoundingly stupid), but it is clearly horseshit from a human perspective. I think ONLY what happened before the fight matters. If the guy stalked the kid and confronted him, he deserved to get his *** kicked. That didn't give him the right to shoot the kid. Nothing in the world could ever convince me otherwise.

If someone was stalking me with a gun (i.e. Zimerman) you bet your *** I would try to get the drop on them. These arguments that imply Martin "deserved to be shot" are the equivalent of the person who blames a women for being raped for "dressing slutty". It's pathetic.

This seems to be common among the outraged people. The rape comparison is entirely false. No woman ever got raped because she was assaulting someone with a weapon. :confused:

The human perspective is your opinion of events. Both men were expected to abide by and be judged by a jury with the same law. You're also saying that people have the right to assault a neighborhood watch if they ask what they are doing? That's just messed up.

The law allows people defend themselves. We have the right to not get our head pummeled in concrete. I have the right to carry a weapon in case some criminal (like it happens everyday here in the USA) decides that my well being and property don't matter to them. Self defense is a right and it should be.
 

GoIrish41

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So are you saying that GZ was totally off base given TM's violent past, tattoos, drug use, throwing the bird/flashing a gun on camera, calling GZ a "cracker".... Does TM not fit the discription of a "thug"?

I think he was about as thuggish as it gets.

I'm saying that he didn't know anything about TM's violent past, tatoos, drug use, camera phots and that he probably deserved to get cussed out for following the kid through the neighborhood for no good reason. The point you are disagreeing with (and you are the one who made the point most often and the "loundest", that we should stop calling a kid, but the other poster was suggesting that he be sent to bed without his dinner for being a bad boy. We can't think that both of those things are correct at the same time, can we? He's either an adult scary thug or an kid who should be grounded.
 

FearTheBeard

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No he couldn't have. Because that would mean that TM had some fault in this. We can't have that. We NEED this to be some big bad white dude gunning down this poor kid in cold blood, to get our voting base rallied and gun laws passed.


oops! Just spoiled the plan!

Not to mention Zimmerman is half hispanic IIRC. The stuff ive seen on this case on social media is ridiculous, just makes me sick.
 

GoIrish41

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Well, which is it? Did she clearly tell Zimmerman to stand down, or did she potentially expose her department to legal action for at least tacitly approving of Zimmerman following Martin?

She kinda did both. The sequence of the converstion was STOP (obviously not in those words) and when it was clear that he wasn't going to stop, then OK SO CAN YOU SEE HIM NOW? I'm not disagreeing with your point, but clearly she suggested that he stop pursuit.
 

irishpat183

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I'm saying that he didn't know anything about TM's violent past, tatoos, drug use, camera phots and that he probably deserved to get cussed out for following the kid through the neighborhood for no good reason. The point you are disagreeing with (and you are the one who made the point most often and the "loundest", that we should stop calling a kid, but the other poster was suggesting that he be sent to bed without his dinner for being a bad boy. We can't think that both of those things are correct at the same time, can we? He's either an adult scary thug or an kid who should be grounded.

I agree that he's not a kid. Especially when we can try 17 year olds as adults. Had TM, hypothetically, murdered GZ in cold blood, he'd be tried as an adult. Can't have it both ways. He's not a "kid".

And while we're clear that GZ didn't know TM's past at the time....how the hell could TM possibly know GZ was a "crazy a$$ cracker"?

I'm sayin that we have no problem making assumptions about what GZ was supposedly THINKING...but there is no evidence to support he acted in either a racial manner, or had any bad bone in his body. Yet, TM, with his history, the clothes he was wearing, the way he spoke...is just a boy who was confronted and that justified him to fight GZ?? What???
 

irishpat183

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She kinda did both. The sequence of the converstion was STOP (obviously not in those words) and when it was clear that he wasn't going to stop, then OK SO CAN YOU SEE HIM NOW? I'm not disagreeing with your point, but clearly she suggested that he stop pursuit.

Which is why it's irrelevent to the case. Had she told him "you need to stop or you'll subject yourself to criminal charges" then I'd see your point. But she didn't...because she answers phones, and "assists".


But its what the TM crowd has hung their hats on for some reason
 

GoIrish41

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I agree that he's not a kid. Especially when we can try 17 year olds as adults. Had TM, hypothetically, murdered GZ in cold blood, he'd be tried as an adult. Can't have it both ways. He's not a "kid".

And while we're clear that GZ didn't know TM's past at the time....how the hell could TM possibly know GZ was a "crazy a$$ cracker"?

I'm sayin that we have no problem making assumptions about what GZ was supposedly THINKING...but there is no evidence to support he acted in either a racial manner, or had any bad bone in his body. Yet, TM, with his history, the clothes he was wearing, the way he spoke...is just a boy who was confronted and that justified him to fight GZ?? What???

Because he was following him around the neighborhood in the dark and in the rain?
 

SaltyND24

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I agree that he's not a kid. Especially when we can try 17 year olds as adults. Had TM, hypothetically, murdered GZ in cold blood, he'd be tried as an adult. Can't have it both ways. He's not a "kid".

And while we're clear that GZ didn't know TM's past at the time....how the hell could TM possibly know GZ was a "crazy a$$ cracker"?

I'm sayin that we have no problem making assumptions about what GZ was supposedly THINKING...but there is no evidence to support he acted in either a racial manner, or had any bad bone in his body. Yet, TM, with his history, the clothes he was wearing, the way he spoke...is just a boy who was confronted and that justified him to fight GZ?? What???

Gosh damnit Pat...He was a creepy a** cracker...get your sh*t straight...Also, I feel that just because you can be tried as an adult at 17, doesn't make you one...He was 3 weeks past his 17th birthday...I will say however that KIDS even younger than 17 can make some very adult decisions, knowing the ramifications of their actions...I believe in the case of very heinous, gruesome crimes (school shootings, etc.) that even 15 year olds should be tried as adults in those circumstances
 

GoIrish41

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A YOUNG MAN IS DEAD!!!! How insensitive can you be to joke at a time like this? Things like this are what derails a discussion quicker than anything else.
Yeah I’m insensitive. That’s a pretty crushing accusation coming from the guy who claims the dead kid’s parents were horrible, having never met them in his life and only days after the trial during which the guy who shot him got off without punishment.
You've done it throughout the entire thread! Are you serious?
Then it ought to be easy for you to find one instance where I simply dismissed anyone who has “facts” and “evidence.”
Hold up, you are the one who said I was picking a fight with you, YOU are the one being offended. I love opposing viewpoints. When I was a mod people would plead with me to ban members of other fanbases, but I always gave them a chance to see if they could provide outside views without hanging themselves.
This sounds a lot like a guy who welcomes opposing viewpoints.
On this thread, you're the random nobody at home letting everyone know that you know WAY more than Brian Kelly and his staff, while questioning every little thing he does that doesn't work with 1000% perfection. Sad, really.
What a flattering portrayal. How could I confuse that with a personal attack. I’ll bet you say that to all the guys …
Thing is, I like hearing what other people have to say, and acknowledging when they have good points or when their facts and evidence make sense. You, OTOH, have merely dismissed facts and evidence, even when presented by lawyers and jurors on the case who watched every single minute of the case (which you admitted that you did not). You come up with some boloney about them ignoring other facts (which aren't even facts lol) or testimony, and therefore they are wrong and you are right.
You obviously don’t like hearing what other people have to say, which is why you lashed out because you did not like what I have to say. Also, I did not say I’m right and everyone (anyone for that matter) is wrong … not even once.
Never got personal with you, but nice try. You did call my view idiotic though, which I found to be a tad bit rude but whatever, I can handle that.
Don’t give me all the credit … almost everyone thought your view was idiotic. Martin’s parents have handled themselves with strength and dignity throughout this trial and you flat out said they were horrible parents because they didn’t take his cell phone when he got in trouble at school. You insulted the parents of a dead kid who you have never met before … classy. I made a joke instead of getting into this discussion with you when you attempted start an argument yesterday. Congrats! You got your argument!
On this thread, YOU're the random nobody at home letting everyone know that YOU know way more than Brian Kelly and his staff, while questioning every little thing he does that doesn't work with 1000% perfection. SAD REALLY.
Are you suggesting this was not a personal attack?
Yeah, kinda like when people make jokes about such a sensitive topic, just days after a 17 year-old kid died. Don't you hate those people?
Actually he died more than a year ago and the joke was not about him. It wasn’t like I was saying he had horrible parents or anything.
So I was right. Thanks bro.
Yes you were right when you called him a kid. I haven’t gone back and looked through the thread to see if you said he should not be considered a kid so I’ll let this one slide. If you did say he shouldn’t be called a kid and are now changing up to fit your argument, tisk, tisk. I will, however, point out that several people on your side of the argument have been pretty emphatic that nobody should be calling him a kid.
When did I argue that?????? What in the world are you talking about? My argument that started this is that his parents did a horrible job. YOU AGREED UP ABOVE. Now you're just making stuff up.
Did I? Who is making stuff up?


Says the guy who has passed off his version of what happened as truth this entire thread.
Again, more show, less tell. Just point to one example. I have given my opinions, and when asked for my theory, I gave my theory. Never once did I say that my version is the gospel – not even one time.

Pissed? Not even close. No idea what you are talking about.
What’s a guy to think when he has insults and accusations being tossed his way? I thought that was a perfectly normal reaction for someone who is pissed. Maybe it is something else altogether then.

I hold the truth in high regard. And the truth is that GZ was rightfully acquitted by virtue of the evidence brought forth in the case, and the truth is that TM's parents did him a horrible disservice by parenting him the way they did.

You hold the truth in high regard, but when someone offers and opposing viewpoint that very well could explain glaring holes in Zimmerman’s story, your reaction is to insult them and accuse them of being a shameless know-it-all. Gotcha!

There you go on the parenting thing again. Dude, you don’t even know these people. Can’t you understand how fvcked up that is to make judgments about how they parented their child when you have no way of knowing what they did? Good lord man, you have no shame.

I guess the lesson here is that it is OK when YOU do it, but when someone comes back at you, it is not OK. Got it.

I just found it ironic that you made assumptions the entire way though your post while criticizing me for making assumptions. The lesson here is that I’ll never get these 15 minutes back and I can promise you I won’t be giving you any more time in this thread from here forward.
 

GoIrish41

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I don't know...Couldn't he have been an adult whose parents needed to intervene with some discipline? I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

Fair point, but if he was as thugish as he is being made out to be by some, would he have listened to his parents anyway?
 
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