'10 NC DE Prince Shembo (In hot water)

[NDinL.A.]

Twenty-eight million it is. Let's set this fixed amount. And make it official.


Now that we have a bet, let me tell you how serious I consider it. It is a covenant. Between us. Since this bet will not be executed until next April, do not dare let your net worth drop below 28M. That gives you 900K leeway. If it drops below that, expect me to come looking for my vcash. Wiskey isn't too far for me to travel. Nobody front the money.



I like Bogs, Y or N.

(Circle one.)


And by the way what is this blue and gold colored glasses, crap? I believed we had eight truly elite down linemen and os linebackers, last spring. The problem in the natty wasn't an OS linebackers play. It was the coaching. The staff inverted one of the defensive ends and did not adjust by moving a linebacker over. So there was a gap where an OS linebacker should have been. I have one 28 M bet for Shembo any more takers? I will do bets down to 5 M.

I'm sure I'm on his ignore list, but someone can get this message to bogs. I'm down for 10 million.

 

[dwshade]

Shembo is a nice player, he's been good not great people. Some here need to get honest with themselves and take off those blue and gold colored glasses and be objective rather than just a homer that's blindly loyal.

Shembo is a best with a great season a 3rd round pick.

This reminds me of last off season when the were poster saying that C. Wood wasn't going to come back for his final year of eligibility because he was one of the best RBs and that he could go as early as the late first round. As time went on it became mid 2nd and no later than the 3rd round yet these posters/fans didn't want to hear what talent evaluators had to say from the get go that he was at best a 6th rounder and what do you know he didn't get drafted.

As for Andrew Williams he could surprise and be a game changing talent but odds are vastly against that being the case. He would be a nice get, a good player that I want ND to get but let's get real and realize he's nowhere near the talent that let's say a Lorenzo Carter is.

That's not a slight it's just reality. True game changing talent is very rare and most of those 5 stars won't be the player there potential says they could be. There will be some surprises from players because they were late bloomer or just being overlooked because they came from a non football power state or from a small school that player against suspect competition and whatnot.

Trying to guage where someone will go in next May's draft is complete guesswork right now. Last year at this time Matt Barkley and T.J. McDonald of USC were considered locks for the top of the 1st round. Neither came close to first round. On the other hand if someone had suggested Eric Fisher from Central Michigan would have been the 1st player taken they would have been laughed at. Or Ezekiel Ansah. A year ago no one had a clue who he was, not even NFL scouts. Ends up going 5th in the draft.

 

[koonja]

Ishaq has a better chance of being drafted in the 1st round this year than Shembo.

 

[LoveThee]

Ishaq has a better chance of being drafted in the 1st round this year than Shembo.

Laughable! Come on kuehnja, this use of hyperbole is going to diminish your credibility

 

[koonja]

Laughable! Come on kuehnja, this use of hyperbole is going to diminish your credibility

What credibility? Yolo.

But seriously, it's absolutely true IMO. In fact, there's even a mach draft that has Ishaq going ~ number 30 overall. Highly unlikely, but I think he's going to have a monster year.

 

[LoveThee]

What credibility? Yolo.

I laughed. I would rep you but I've done it too much the last 24 hours haha

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What credibility? Yolo.

But seriously, it's absolutely true IMO. In fact, there's even a mach draft that has Ishaq going ~ number 30 overall. Highly unlikely, but I think he's going to have a monster year.

Of course Ishaq has another year of eligibility, over Prince, (Prince has one Ishaq has two), and this is the year Clowney and Tuitt are expected to come out. Seeing as everyone is interested in Williams primarily for his pass rush abilities, or at least that is what I have seen, I doubt he comes out a year early. IW leaving it in the extra year, could be a perfect example of someone helping themselves. And finally about Ishaq, the money in the NFL is with good edge rushers. So I think that locks up IW's conversion back to end.

Back to Prince. I have talked to a couple of people who talk about Princes fluid strength, and how that is just what the NFL salivates over. Now Matt Millen calls Prince # 4.

His '12 stats, 51 tackles (22 unassisted), with 10.5 stops resulting in a loss and 7.5 sacks, put him in line with the second round picks of a year ago, didn't it? No fluke sophomore year, 31 tackles, with 3 stops resulting in a loss and 2 sacks, and freshman year 15 tackles, 6 unassisted, 5 tackles for a loss, 4.5 sacks, and 1 forced fumble. His freshman year five linebackers lined up for more snaps.

In my opinion, this shows a guy that has it from the start, a guy who's stats are going the right direction, which makes him a guy to watch, that is poised for a big jump forward in performance. Finally, I am not trying to cop out, but Princes stats are more impressive in ND's no crease defense. I don't think Diaco's defense is a statistic builder like a lot of defenses are for outside linebackers. But I do think Prince's value goes up for the NFL for playing in this defensive configuration.

 

[GoIrish41]

Of course Ishaq has another year of eligibility, over Prince, (Prince has one Ishaq has two), and this is the year Clowney and Tuitt are expected to come out. Seeing as everyone is interested in Williams primarily for his pass rush abilities, or at least that is what I have seen, I doubt he comes out a year early. IW leaving it in the extra year, could be a perfect example of someone helping themselves. And finally about Ishaq, the money in the NFL is with good edge rushers. So I think that locks up IW's conversion back to end.

Back to Prince. I have talked to a couple of people who talk about Princes fluid strength, and how that is just what the NFL salivates over. Now Matt Millen calls Prince # 4.

His '12 stats, 51 tackles (22 unassisted), with 10.5 stops resulting in a loss and 7.5 sacks, put him in line with the second round picks of a year ago, didn't it? No fluke sophomore year, 31 tackles, with 3 stops resulting in a loss and 2 sacks, and freshman year 15 tackles, 6 unassisted, 5 tackles for a loss, 4.5 sacks, and 1 forced fumble. His freshman year five linebackers lined up for more snaps.

In my opinion, this shows a guy that has it from the start, a guy who's stats are going the right direction, which makes him a guy to watch, that is poised for a big jump forward in performance. Finally, I am not trying to cop out, but Princes stats are more impressive in ND's no crease defense. I don't think Diaco's defense is a statistic builder like a lot of defenses are for outside linebackers. But I do think Prince's value goes up for the NFL for playing in this defensive configuration.

where did the number 4 LB go in last year's draft?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

where did the number 4 LB go in last year's draft?

Manti was only like the third LB taken in the draft. People talked about Manti's slide, but it was really linebackers in general. Which is one of the reasons I think more will be taken earlier in '14.

In '13 like a zillion OT's were taken, including one from the MAC as the first draft choice!

 

[IHateMarkMay]

It seems OLBs go quicker than MLB though...

 

[Luckylucci]

Keep in mind that there are guys that will go ahead of Shembo that Millen didn't talk about like Kyle Van Noy. Most likely Anthony Barr will be drafted in front of Shembo.

 

[dublinirish]

Keep in mind that there are guys that will go ahead of Shembo that Millen didn't talk about like Kyle Van Noy. Most likely Anthony Barr will be drafted in front of Shembo.

plus some guys we never heard of yet ala Ziggy Ansah but have "unlimited potential"

 

[GoIrish41]

Manti was only like the third LB taken in the draft. People talked about Manti's slide, but it was really linebackers in general. Which is one of the reasons I think more will be taken earlier in '14.

In '13 like a zillion OT's were taken, including one from the MAC as the first draft choice!

LBs taken in the 1st round over the past four years

2010 - K. McClain and Sean Witherspoon
2011 - Vonn Miller
2012 - Kuechly, Bruce Irvin, Shea McLellin, Donte Hightower
2013 - Jarvis Jones and Ogletree

Last year was fairly typical for LBs. Indeed, if Shembo is LB #4 and gets drafted in the first round, that would be the exception to the rule. He would have to have an off-the-charts kind of year to make it into the first round, IMHO

 

[PANDFAN]

LBs taken in the 1st round over the past four years

2010 - K. McClain and Sean Witherspoon
2011 - Vonn Miller
2012 - Kuechly, Bruce Irvin, Shea McLellin, Donte Hightower
2013 - Jarvis Jones and Ogletree

Last year was fairly typical for LBs. Indeed, if Shembo is LB #4 and gets drafted in the first round, that would be the exception to the rule. He would have to have an off-the-charts kind of year to make it into the first round, IMHO

these guys were difference makers..Prince hasn't been...

 

[GoIrish41]

these guys were difference makers..Prince hasn't been...

I agree. Prince will have to absolutely go off this year to slip into the first round.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Ishaq has a better chance of being drafted in the 1st round this year than Shembo.

Perhaps. My original point earlier is that Shembo is undersized for a rush LB position, which IMO keeps him out of the 1st round. However the gold standard of recent players with a similar profile to Shembo would be Melvin Ingram, who had 15 TFL (vs 10.5 for Shembo) and 10 sacks (vs 7.5) in his final year. Ingram went #16 overall with significantly more production, which makes me think Shembo doesn't make it into the 1st. I don't see him falling out of the 3rd however.

 

[PANDFAN]

another thing that Manti got flack for was being completely outclassed and missing in action against Bama....where was Prince??? same thing as the commentators kept showing replays of him just getting swallowed up and overpowered on numerous occasions....the same crap will be said unless he goes HAM this year

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Ishaq has a better chance of being drafted in the 1st round this year than Shembo.

I actually agree with this. If Ishaq were to come out after this year, I don't think he will, he would get drafted a head of Prince.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Shembo is a 3-4 OLB so any comparison to Tuitt is an absurd one. Shembo is a 3rd rounder with the chance of imroving his stock as the season progresses.

I think you are misunderstanding what was stated. No one is comparing Shembo to Tuitt, they are completely different players. All that was said is the Alabama ran out Shembo and away from Tuitt in the NC game.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I actually agree that Shembo has at least a chance of getting to the first round. Its a passing league, and that means the NFL loves LTs, QBs, and pass rushers. Shembo is a good pass rusher. If he puts up big numbers this year, it's possible he goes in the first.

Of course I doubt it happens, but it could, escpecially if we release the hounds more often due to our new found glut of quality DBs.

 

[IrishLax]

another thing that Manti got flack for was being completely outclassed and missing in action against Bama....where was Prince??? same thing as the commentators kept showing replays of him just getting swallowed up and overpowered on numerous occasions....the same crap will be said unless he goes HAM this year

Jarvis Jones got run over RIDICULOUS amounts against Bama... still went in the first round. At the end of the day, everyone was looking for an excuse to drop Manti down out of the first and no one wanted to take him in the first because of the PR angle. Your first round pick is the face of your franchise and Te'o would've been one heck of a bad "face" at the time... it's the kind of decision that could get a GM fired if he was a bust. The Chargers, consequently, luck out and grab him early 2nd.

So I really doubt that Shembo getting blasted by Bama will end up having any bearing on his draft status. What he needs are more TFL and sacks to get into the 1st/2nd round. Production is where it is at for pass rushers that don't have wowing physical traits like a Dion Jordan.

 

[NDWorld247]

LBs taken in the 1st round over the past four years

2010 - K. McClain and Sean Witherspoon
2011 - Vonn Miller
2012 - Kuechly, Bruce Irvin, Shea McLellin, Donte Hightower
2013 - Jarvis Jones and Ogletree

Last year was fairly typical for LBs. Indeed, if Shembo is LB #4 and gets drafted in the first round, that would be the exception to the rule. He would have to have an off-the-charts kind of year to make it into the first round, IMHO

I think you have to add Jordan, Mingo and even Werner to this list as they will all play OLB in 3-4 defenses in the NFL.

Shembo will also likely raise his stock through a strong combine performance. I don't know his numbers now, but my guess is he is at or near the top of OLB performers in a number of categories come next February.

With that said, I don't think he ends up in the first round. I could see him going around the same spot that Jamie Collins (Rd. 2, #52 overall) did last year.

 

[dwshade]

Perhaps. My original point earlier is that Shembo is undersized for a rush LB position, which IMO keeps him out of the 1st round. However the gold standard of recent players with a similar profile to Shembo would be Melvin Ingram, who had 15 TFL (vs 10.5 for Shembo) and 10 sacks (vs 7.5) in his final year. Ingram went #16 overall with significantly more production, which makes me think Shembo doesn't make it into the 1st. I don't see him falling out of the 3rd however.

Actually Prince at 6-2, 250 is not undersized for the position. As a comparison Jarvis Jones is 6-2, 245, Von Miller 6-3, 240, Clay Matthews 6-3, 250, Elvis Dumervil 5-11, 255, Justin Houston 6-3, 250. What he needs to work on to improve is status is something other than a bull rush in pass rushing. More variety in pass rushing skills.

 

[Luckylucci]

Agreed, thats what will decide whether he has a great season or another good season. Also, I'm not sure he has the speed that some of those guys do. I actually have no idea what he runs but he plays slower than a lot of those guys IMO.

 

[dwshade]

I think you have to add Jordan, Mingo and even Werner to this list as they will all play OLB in 3-4 defenses in the NFL.

Shembo will also likely raise his stock through a strong combine performance. I don't know his numbers now, but my guess is he is at or near the top of OLB performers in a number of categories come next February.

With that said, I don't think he ends up in the first round. I could see him going around the same spot that Jamie Collins (Rd. 2, #52 overall) did last year.

Absolutely correct about adding Jordan, Mingo and Werner. I'd say there are 5 OLB locks for 1st round next year, Anthony Barr, C.J. Mosley, Kyle Van Noy, Morgan Breslin and Jackson Jeffcoat.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Had lunch with a guy today. Explained things to me. Certain positions go quick. Others not so much. He said when you talk LB's you talk first two rounds as a group, then three and four, then five/six. The trend is LB's just don't go early anymore. Where with defensive ends and nose guards a distinction between rounds one and two could be significant. That is what is in demand, pass rushers and middle cloggers!

He also said their are some specialty players in the draft, and that declare early for the draft that may pack the board at the top.

He said he thought that a fair statement might be that few players, if anyone, are in the position to see their stock rise as much, or as high as Prince Shembo. With the Manti talk last year, and all eyes on the defensive backfield, he was in the shadows, he has what the NFL loves in terms of athletic ability, and solid technique, and he has the attitude. With a great year, he is going to be at or near the top of everyone's list.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Had lunch with a guy today. Explained things to me. Certain positions go quick. Others not so much. He said when you talk LB's you talk first two rounds as a group, then three and four, then five/six. The trend is LB's just don't go early anymore. Where with defensive ends and nose guards a distinction between rounds one and two could be significant. That is what is in demand, pass rushers and middle cloggers!

He also said their are some specialty players in the draft, and that declare early for the draft that may pack the board at the top.

He said he thought that a fair statement might be that few players, if anyone, are in the position to see their stock rise as much, or as high as Prince Shembo. With the Manti talk last year, and all eyes on the defensive backfield, he was in the shadows, he has what the NFL loves in terms of athletic ability, and solid technique, and he has the attitude. With a great year, he is going to be at or near the top of everyone's list.

There has been a trend of taking OLBs with the potnetial to get to the QB earlier.

Tuitt, Nix, and the DBs are going to give a lot more flexibility to rush Prince this year.

 

[dwshade]

Had lunch with a guy today. Explained things to me. Certain positions go quick. Others not so much. He said when you talk LB's you talk first two rounds as a group, then three and four, then five/six. The trend is LB's just don't go early anymore. Where with defensive ends and nose guards a distinction between rounds one and two could be significant. That is what is in demand, pass rushers and middle cloggers!

He also said their are some specialty players in the draft, and that declare early for the draft that may pack the board at the top.

He said he thought that a fair statement might be that few players, if anyone, are in the position to see their stock rise as much, or as high as Prince Shembo. With the Manti talk last year, and all eyes on the defensive backfield, he was in the shadows, he has what the NFL loves in terms of athletic ability, and solid technique, and he has the attitude. With a great year, he is going to be at or near the top of everyone's list.

I would agree ILB's don't go high but pass rushing OLB's especially the 3-4 variety are very much in demand. Key positions in demand now are pass rushers, cover corners and OT's who can protect the QB. Of course franchise QB's as a need is a given. I'll be excited to watch Shembo this year. Stock could really rise. Scouts already love that he plays fearlessly and with "swagger."

 

[dwshade]

Agreed, thats what will decide whether he has a great season or another good season. Also, I'm not sure he has the speed that some of those guys do. I actually have no idea what he runs but he plays slower than a lot of those guys IMO.

It's not so much speed as it is explosion and quickness. Jarvis Jones ran a 4.9 40 at his pro day. Didn't bother the Steelers a bit due to fact that Jones has great instincts and great explosion. As one scout commented forget his 40 time, from OLB to the QB he plays 4.6.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Had lunch with a guy today. Explained things to me. Certain positions go quick. Others not so much. He said when you talk LB's you talk first two rounds as a group, then three and four, then five/six. The trend is LB's just don't go early anymore. Where with defensive ends and nose guards a distinction between rounds one and two could be significant. That is what is in demand, pass rushers and middle cloggers!

He also said their are some specialty players in the draft, and that declare early for the draft that may pack the board at the top.

He said he thought that a fair statement might be that few players, if anyone, are in the position to see their stock rise as much, or as high as Prince Shembo. With the Manti talk last year, and all eyes on the defensive backfield, he was in the shadows, he has what the NFL loves in terms of athletic ability, and solid technique, and he has the attitude. With a great year, he is going to be at or near the top of everyone's list.

You talk to Trinity on a regular basis?