Zibby, where were you?

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irish4life99

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While I know we all love Zibikowki, but I kept having to ask my self during the Fiesta when Ohio was lobbing the long ball in one on one with Wooden, "Where's Zibby"? While the DB's have been weak, seems like they got no help. I kept seeing Zibby take two steps forward on almost every snap, which is not good for a DB, Safety, or SS for that matter. I'm just not sure if that was be design. If so, that scheme (IMHO) needs to change. Sorry, I love Zib, but I think that he may need to change to Strong Saftey. It does little good to pop a WR as he's going into the End Zone.
 

kmoose

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He got beat on a couple of play fakes. The pass to Holmes was a great example. I think he got caught up in how well Ohio State was running the ball, and tried to do too much. If the front seven had played the run better, then I think he would have been in better position on many of those passes.
 

irishtexan

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Notre Dame was also in a shitload of man coverage the whole game.
 
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bigdon

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kmoose said:
He got beat on a couple of play fakes. The pass to Holmes was a great example. I think he got caught up in how well Ohio State was running the ball, and tried to do too much. If the front seven had played the run better, then I think he would have been in better position on many of those passes.
Wooden got beat badly on the first TD to Ginn. He took two steps toward a WR coming across the middle and Ginn was gone. I don't think I've ever seen a receiver that far behind a DB unless the back fell down. It was the beginning of a long night.
 

scooper

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The entire defense holds blame for that game. There was no pass rush and the coverage sucked. It was players and it was scheming.

I agree that Zibby may make a better SS. His physical play could certainly thrive there. The problem this year was the lack of a true FS. Remember that Duke was practicing at Apache in the spring, but moved out of necesity and he was definately more of a SS than FS.

I keep beating this drum, but I really think Bruton could be an answer here. Move Zibby to SS and get Duke's speed into the LB corps.
 

jiggafini19

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Did you know he was a golden gloves boxer?

And Brady Quinn's sister is dating AJ Hawk?

Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden are old.

Just some things I picked up from ABC and the BCS games this year.
 

scooper

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jiggafini19 said:
Did you know he was a golden gloves boxer?
And Brady Quinn's sister is dating AJ Hawk?
Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden are old.
Just some things I picked up from ABC and the BCS games this year.

Don't forget that 05 USC is the greatest team ever. :evil:
 

irishnd31

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jiggafini19 said:
Did you know he was a golden gloves boxer?
And Brady Quinn's sister is dating AJ Hawk?
Joe Paterno and Bobby Bowden are old.
Just some things I picked up from ABC and the BCS games this year.


Is it true that Leinart only took one class this year? I heard it was BALLROOM DANCING.
 

BigIrish

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some of my favorite quotes from the rose bowl last night....

"these two coaches have brought a new perspective and methodology to college football - i think..."

- Keith Jackson, trying to sound smart talking about carroll and brown

"i still think we're still a better team, but they made the plays tonight."

- Matt Leinhart, post game interview on the field

"pete carroll is one of the greatest defensive minds of all time."

- Dan Fouts, right before he fell into a dreamy trance staring at an autographed picture of carroll

but my favorite exchange of the night, for anybody that missed it, was:

Dan: "they measured the grass on the field and it is cut exactly 5/8's of an inch."

Keith: "that wouldn't cut it at notre dame."

Dan: "yeah. it's more like 5 5/8's inches at notre dame."


wtf? notre dame gets bashed even when they're not playing? come on, keith, don't hold back. what do you REALLY think about notre dame?
 

domerfor life

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Keith Jackson is horrible. He needs to retire now. Some of the stuff he was saying just made you say what the....... Especially that "new methodology to the game" quote. You want to explain that to us Keith. It's just painful to see him stumble through words. He can't keep up with the action. Question....so if SC was the best team ever and Texas beat them, does that make Texas the best team ever?
 
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adam0033

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If you watch the end of the game, the last two OSU drives, he practically made every single tackle. The kid didn't give up on plays, it probably looks like he gets beat more than others because he pursues the ball so well. The difference to me was the speed at the corners/LB and the lack of pass rush. Smith had easy reads all night and only made a handful of passes against good man coverage or over a linebacker in zone.

I thought that grass comment was pretty funny myself.
 

jiggafini19

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Keith Jackson, Bobby Bowden and Joe Paterno.

The three of them should buy ugly checkered pants, move down to Florida and call it a life. Seeing relatives for the holidays and watching these last two games has put me over my 30 day limit with those in the AARP bracket. I need a break.

Everyone give Lee Corso credit. He's been saying all year Texas was the most complete team and he was the only one to pick them last night. Fowler went with him and Aaron Taylor picked the Horns as well. I think Taylor was excited SC lost. Screaming like a nut waving a Wheaties box over his head and all.

I had the game on mute for 95% of the night and watched the game in silence.

Dan Fouts was good in "The Waterboy"
 

irish9331

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irish4life99 said:
While I know we all love Zibikowki, but I kept having to ask my self during the Fiesta when Ohio was lobbing the long ball in one on one with Wooden, "Where's Zibby"? While the DB's have been weak, seems like they got no help. I kept seeing Zibby take two steps forward on almost every snap, which is not good for a DB, Safety, or SS for that matter. I'm just not sure if that was be design. If so, that scheme (IMHO) needs to change. Sorry, I love Zib, but I think that he may need to change to Strong Saftey. It does little good to pop a WR as he's going into the End Zone.


Minter has him playing too much GD man to man defense, so there was no help over the top. That has got to change.
 

domerfor life

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irish9331 said:
Minter has him playing too much GD man to man defense, so there was no help over the top. That has got to change.

How about implement some dime coverage Is that too much to ask? When is the last time we played dime? Was it in Willingham's first year? That's the only time I can remember us having enough corners to do so.
 
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ccrit79

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BigIrish said:
some of my favorite quotes from the rose bowl last night....

"these two coaches have brought a new perspective and methodology to college football - i think..."

- Keith Jackson, trying to sound smart talking about carroll and brown

"i still think we're still a better team, but they made the plays tonight."

- Matt Leinhart, post game interview on the field

"pete carroll is one of the greatest defensive minds of all time."

- Dan Fouts, right before he fell into a dreamy trance staring at an autographed picture of carroll

but my favorite exchange of the night, for anybody that missed it, was:

Dan: "they measured the grass on the field and it is cut exactly 5/8's of an inch."

Keith: "that wouldn't cut it at notre dame."

Dan: "yeah. it's more like 5 5/8's inches at notre dame."


wtf? notre dame gets bashed even when they're not playing? come on, keith, don't hold back. what do you REALLY think about notre dame?


How about Dan Fouts comment with two seconds left in the first half. USC was ready to kick off and he says, "well you never know what could happen here with Vince Young on the team, and they have all three timeouts left." For one thing you idiot Fouts, Young doesn't return kicks, and another thing, the timeouts are useless. Him and Keith Jackson are as stupid as Musberger.
 

jiggafini19

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January 5, 2006
Defense Still the Missing Ingredient
by TIM PRISTER

In Charlie, they trusted.
Sure, it looked like Ohio State was better on paper. They were. Sure, it looked like the Buckeyes had the post-season experience/success to defeat an upstart Notre Dame team that had ascended to a BCS game after compiling an 11-13 record in the two previous years combined.

But with Weis at the controls, it seemed like the Irish could overcome anything.

That’s not true anymore, not with a defense that can’t play its best at the most crucial times.

In the 34-20 loss to the Buckeyes in the Fiesta Bowl, the defense allowed two huge pass plays and two long runs en route to surrendering an embarrassing 617 yards total offense.

Certainly Weis had his own issues with the offense, which managed just 348 yards against Ohio State—147 under its average—including just 62 yards on the ground. The 348 total yards was the third lowest of the season.

But in the other two sub-par offensive showings—244 yards against Michigan and 343 yards against Tennessee—the Irish defense showed up. Rick Minter’s defense didn’t show up Monday in Tempe. Of course, those offenses didn’t compare to what the Irish encountered against Ohio State.

It started with Ted Ginn Jr.’s 56-yard touchdown reception from Troy Smith. Ginn Jr. was well behind the Irish secondary when he hauled in the pass that traveled 65 yards in the air.

Early in the second quarter, Ginn Jr. sprinted 68 yards on an end-around. Once he cleared the first wall of defenders, it was a relatively futile chase.

Santonio Holmes slipped behind the Irish secondary for an 85-yard score late in the first half, and running back Antonio Pittman got into the act as the Buckeyes were running the clock out with a 60-yard burst with 1:46 remaining.

Minter has always had solid units as a defensive coordinator. But in three of the biggest games Minter has coached at Notre Dame, his defense has been the main culprit in Irish defeats—the loss to Ohio State Monday, the loss to USC on Oct. 15 and the loss to Boston College 12 years earlier, 41-39 in 1993, when the Irish were one game away from playing for the national championship.

The Irish defense actually held its own against USC, allowing “just” 476 yards to a team that averaged 580. But the game-winning drive by the Trojans included a fourth down conversion that put USC within striking distance of the infamous “Bush Push” of Matt Leinart into the end zone.

Notre Dame offered no pass rush of Ohio State’s Troy Smith. Smith was able to sit back and pick the Irish apart with the long ball. Then, when he was flushed from the pocket, he ran for another 82 yards (66 net including lost yardage plays).

The Irish secondary was an improved unit over the previous year. Notre Dame allowed 18 touchdown passes in 12 games compared to the 14 given up in the final three games of 2004. But ultimately, those are just hollow numbers when you’re coming off such a poor effort against the Buckeyes.

In the most significant game of the season, Notre Dame’s secondary played uncertain of itself and a bit gun-shy, particularly after Ginn Jr.’s early score. Only safety Tom Zbikowski was the aggressor, and even he continued to show a vulnerability to the deep ball.

Now, with the two best tacklers on the team gone—linebacker Brandon Hoyte and Corey Mays—there are no guarantees in 2006, even with nine starters returning.

Weis has helped make the defense better by sharing his wisdom with Minter about how offenses will try to attack them. But it still comes down to playing the best in the most critical times of the season, and in the final regular season game, the Irish surrendered 17 points in the fourth quarter and needed a 663-yard effort to knock off the Cardinal, followed by Ohio State’s 617 yards.

With the secondary returning intact and an infusion of young talent, they will get better, particularly with the experience and savvy of defensive back coach Bill Lewis. Not sure if that will be true of the pass rush under Jappy Oliver. When it comes to a pass rush, you usually either have a knack for it or you don’t, and the unit of Victor Abiamiri, Derek Landri, Trevor Laws, and Chris Frome/Ronald Talley is not a championship-caliber pass-rushing unit.With a veteran offense returning and Weis at the controls, the Irish will continue to gain a whole bunch of yards and score a boat load of points. But this won’t truly be a championship team until the defense starts playing like one.

It hasn’t happened yet, and Charlie Weis doesn’t coordinate the defense.
 

jiggafini19

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I've harped on this all season long. I know BigDon has been a pass rush guy and I the secondary critic.

The Ohio State game has exposed this to some people only now? If ND wins that game, no one is talking about this stuff. Winning blinds us at times to what needs to be improved. If you've watch closely and objectively, you'd have known this all year.
 

domerfor life

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jiggafini19 said:
January 5, 2006
Defense Still the Missing Ingredient
by TIM PRISTER
In Charlie, they trusted.
Sure, it looked like Ohio State was better on paper. They were. Sure, it looked like the Buckeyes had the post-season experience/success to defeat an upstart Notre Dame team that had ascended to a BCS game after compiling an 11-13 record in the two previous years combined.
But with Weis at the controls, it seemed like the Irish could overcome anything.
That’s not true anymore, not with a defense that can’t play its best at the most crucial times.
In the 34-20 loss to the Buckeyes in the Fiesta Bowl, the defense allowed two huge pass plays and two long runs en route to surrendering an embarrassing 617 yards total offense.
Certainly Weis had his own issues with the offense, which managed just 348 yards against Ohio State—147 under its average—including just 62 yards on the ground. The 348 total yards was the third lowest of the season.
But in the other two sub-par offensive showings—244 yards against Michigan and 343 yards against Tennessee—the Irish defense showed up. Rick Minter’s defense didn’t show up Monday in Tempe. Of course, those offenses didn’t compare to what the Irish encountered against Ohio State.
It started with Ted Ginn Jr.’s 56-yard touchdown reception from Troy Smith. Ginn Jr. was well behind the Irish secondary when he hauled in the pass that traveled 65 yards in the air.
Early in the second quarter, Ginn Jr. sprinted 68 yards on an end-around. Once he cleared the first wall of defenders, it was a relatively futile chase.
Santonio Holmes slipped behind the Irish secondary for an 85-yard score late in the first half, and running back Antonio Pittman got into the act as the Buckeyes were running the clock out with a 60-yard burst with 1:46 remaining.
Minter has always had solid units as a defensive coordinator. But in three of the biggest games Minter has coached at Notre Dame, his defense has been the main culprit in Irish defeats—the loss to Ohio State Monday, the loss to USC on Oct. 15 and the loss to Boston College 12 years earlier, 41-39 in 1993, when the Irish were one game away from playing for the national championship.
The Irish defense actually held its own against USC, allowing “just” 476 yards to a team that averaged 580. But the game-winning drive by the Trojans included a fourth down conversion that put USC within striking distance of the infamous “Bush Push” of Matt Leinart into the end zone.
Notre Dame offered no pass rush of Ohio State’s Troy Smith. Smith was able to sit back and pick the Irish apart with the long ball. Then, when he was flushed from the pocket, he ran for another 82 yards (66 net including lost yardage plays).
The Irish secondary was an improved unit over the previous year. Notre Dame allowed 18 touchdown passes in 12 games compared to the 14 given up in the final three games of 2004. But ultimately, those are just hollow numbers when you’re coming off such a poor effort against the Buckeyes.
In the most significant game of the season, Notre Dame’s secondary played uncertain of itself and a bit gun-shy, particularly after Ginn Jr.’s early score. Only safety Tom Zbikowski was the aggressor, and even he continued to show a vulnerability to the deep ball.
Now, with the two best tacklers on the team gone—linebacker Brandon Hoyte and Corey Mays—there are no guarantees in 2006, even with nine starters returning.
Weis has helped make the defense better by sharing his wisdom with Minter about how offenses will try to attack them. But it still comes down to playing the best in the most critical times of the season, and in the final regular season game, the Irish surrendered 17 points in the fourth quarter and needed a 663-yard effort to knock off the Cardinal, followed by Ohio State’s 617 yards.
With the secondary returning intact and an infusion of young talent, they will get better, particularly with the experience and savvy of defensive back coach Bill Lewis. Not sure if that will be true of the pass rush under Jappy Oliver. When it comes to a pass rush, you usually either have a knack for it or you don’t, and the unit of Victor Abiamiri, Derek Landri, Trevor Laws, and Chris Frome/Ronald Talley is not a championship-caliber pass-rushing unit.With a veteran offense returning and Weis at the controls, the Irish will continue to gain a whole bunch of yards and score a boat load of points. But this won’t truly be a championship team until the defense starts playing like one.
It hasn’t happened yet, and Charlie Weis doesn’t coordinate the defense.

Jigg, why must you torment me? We know already, we know already.
 

Irishkid23

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Zibby at outside LB?

Zibby at outside LB?

adam0033 said:
If you watch the end of the game, the last two OSU drives, he practically made every single tackle. The kid didn't give up on plays, it probably looks like he gets beat more than others because he pursues the ball so well. The difference to me was the speed at the corners/LB and the lack of pass rush. Smith had easy reads all night and only made a handful of passes against good man coverage or over a linebacker in zone.
I thought that grass comment was pretty funny myself.

Maybe Weis can move Zibby to outside LB and have the current freshmen (2006 sophmores) and incoming freshmen play safety and CB? Zibby would be great against the run and short passing game with his speed and toughness.

Any thoughts on this idea???
 

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Irishkid23 said:
Maybe Weis can move Zibby to outside LB and have the current freshmen (2006 sophmores) and incoming freshmen play safety and CB? Zibby would be great against the run and short passing game with his speed and toughness.

Any thoughts on this idea???

Why stop there?

Move Ndukewe to LB as well.

Crum, Duke, and Zib.


Add Wells and McNeil backing up the upperclassmen CBs (with another 9 months under Lewis to hone the skills they never learned under Wilks) and working into a rotation.


But there's still no pass rush.

And McCoy, Lewis, Ryan, Mullen, or whomever is NOT going to magically provide it on opening day.


It has to come from the guys we have right now.
 

scooper

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Guys, take a closer look at Zibby. He doesn't have a LB frame. I know he can hit like a truck, but his issues in coverage this year have been fundamental and recognition issues. He's fast enough for DB, especially SS. I keep hearing people wanting to move him to LB, but he's only about 208. At tops, I can see him getting to about 215 and keeping his speed.

His NFL future is at SS, he should stay at safety at ND.
 

jiggafini19

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Ndukewe, yes. He would need to get to a decent Apache LB weight. Crum is 215-220, right? Get to lifting, Duke.

Zbikowski, no. Coming out of HS, he was 190 and ran an average of a 4.4 One of the fastest preps I've seen in person. He's still fast, but the muscle he's added have cost him a SLIGHT step. Any bigger, you might as well strap cynder blocks to his legs.

Texas had a linebacker covering Bush the other night who used to be a safety. I like the idea of converting players closer to the line in college (DB to LB, LB to DL) in order to maximize speed. Crum is more of an MLB to replace Hoyte. Moving Ndukewe to Apache had been an option that was mentioned heading into this year as I recall from Spring '05. Might be worth a shot.
 

domerfor life

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jiggafini19 said:
I've harped on this all season long. I know BigDon has been a pass rush guy and I the secondary critic.
The Ohio State game has exposed this to some people only now? If ND wins that game, no one is talking about this stuff. Winning blinds us at times to what needs to be improved. If you've watch closely and objectively, you'd have known this all year.

Exactly Jigg. I think what happened is that the offense masked alot of the problems. Even against Purdue our defense was terrible in the 2nd half. BYU should have burned us for at least three long bombs, but Watson dropped them. Stanford went over the top of our defense numerous times. If you were real objective this year, you knew the only way we could beat OSU is if our offense played lights out and our defense could make a few stops. Well, neither happened and we got demolished. It's not a surprise to me, but it just kind of made the frustration boil over. I don't know how long I can watch the good teams hit home run after home run against us. Until we start beating the SC's and the OSU's, were really not all the way back.
 

KMac151993

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domerforlife and jigga you are both correct. However domerforlife the defense did make a few "stops" in the game, 2 turnovers 1 punt 2 blocked FG's and another FG that should never have been allowed after the fumble by OSU. That is 6 "stops" if you will call them that were OSU got or rather should have got 0 points from. ND punted the ball 6 times in the game and were stopped on one other occasion. OSU just made the bigger plays when they had to and capitalized on every possible opportunity, the Irish and their offense did not and that is what was different from those other games you mentioned.
 
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bigdon

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jiggafini19 said:
I've harped on this all season long. I know BigDon has been a pass rush guy and I the secondary critic.
The Ohio State game has exposed this to some people only now? If ND wins that game, no one is talking about this stuff. Winning blinds us at times to what needs to be improved. If you've watch closely and objectively, you'd have known this all year.
Jiggs,you're 100 % correct. Early in the year there were many on this site that thought the defense was pretty good--that's when we were winning big. Now there is almost universal agreement that this defense is sick.

I saw Abiamiri ( along with Wooden) play in a number of high school games. He WAS what McCoy IS now. He was overpowering! When he signed with ND I thought our pass rush would be the best in the country. Tuck and Abiamiri!! When this season started people talked about Victor having a "breakout" year. He was going to be a team leader. Alas, it was not to be. He has been playing for 3 full years now and we are still waiting. I predict we will still be waiting after next year.

There are a number of very knowledgeable football people on this site. There are many ideas about different packages that will produce better results. I am always interested in these opinions. They are usually directed at Minter and rightly so but we must remember that WEIS made his name by DISECTING defenses. I have to believe that he knows as well as anyone the strengths ( if there are any) and the weaknesses of this defense.

This is just another way of saying (ad nauseum to some I am sure) that Weis and Minter have done as well as they could with the material they had. And unless the D material is upgraded significantly we have no reason to expect anything different next year.

Please forgive my rambling.
!
 

guff

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bigdon said:
This is just another way of saying (ad nauseum to some I am sure) that Weis and Minter have done as well as they could with the material they had. And unless the D material is upgraded significantly we have no reason to expect anything different next year.

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken $h!t! I've been thinking this for a long time but have been resisted saying it. It's not a shot at the players just a clever little phrase coined long ago by someone else that fits this circumstance. I don't think the players are lousy, they're good. But only good.

This team - and probably next year's team - remind me of the 2003 and 2004 Colts. They won games 31-24 but couldn't win a game 17-14. This team needs to score 30 to win a game. That isn't good.

ND doesn't need a dominate defense. It needs a defense that is good enough to get off the field when it has the opportunity. Whether that opportunity is 3 and 12 or 4 and 9. They can't miss tackles, they can't commit stupid penalties (way too many 15 yarders this year), and they continue to give up huge plays.

More Rambling....

Zibby's downfall in my opinion is his amazing desire to make a play. He finds himself way too close to the line of scrimmage while receivers streak toward the end zone. He wants to make the big play, big hit. I love his toughness and everything he brings but Tommy you're a safety. We don't need you making tackles for a loss, we need to you back there breaking up would-be touchdowns.

Let's hope Weis gets a lesson in defensive strategy from his good friend Belichick before spring ball starts.
 

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I'm certainly not bagging on CW, but let's not forget that he got his start in the NFL as a defensive assistant. He needs to address the problems on defense immediately, if he wants to return ND to an elite status. I'm not sure how to address the problems, but something needs to be done. If not, then we will have to listen to chants of "over-rated", almost everywhere the team goes.
 
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weisfaninmass

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kmoose said:
I'm certainly not bagging on CW, but let's not forget that he got his start in the NFL as a defensive assistant. He needs to address the problems on defense immediately, if he wants to return ND to an elite status. I'm not sure how to address the problems, but something needs to be done. If not, then we will have to listen to chants of "over-rated", almost everywhere the team goes.
So the story goes as follows: in the early summer C-Dub was with Ernie Acorsi and talking about Irish football. When talking about the offense, He told Acorsi that we are going to be extremely good. When asked about the Defense, Charlie responded - "they are young and they don't have much talent but they will play hard"....to which Ernie responded -- "Charlie the 'they' is 'you'".

This so true for 2006 season.
 
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