Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[chicago51]

I'm pretty sure murder is illegal in this country. If someone is willing to break the law to MURDER someone, why on earth would they FOLLOW any new gun laws we threw at them. The only people who follow gun laws are the people who are using guns to protect themselvs from people who DON'T.

What about the gun sellers. Right now at gun shows they can sell to anyone they want.

 

[irishpat183]

I hope those of you who feel the government is crushing individual freedoms are out there protesting arrests due to pot and protesting the gay marriage ban too....

And I hope those of you that are using the "legalizing pot will make it more safe because then it will be more accessible and people wont need to turn to crime to obtain it" are taking the same stance with guns.

And I have no problem with Pot being legalized.

And the Federal Government needs to stay outta marriage altogether. States rights on that one.

 

[irishpat183]

What about the gun sellers. Right now at gun shows they can sell to anyone they want.

That passes a background check that runs through the FBI......

Nice try.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

And I hope those of you that are using the "legalizing pot will make it more safe because then it will be more accessible and people wont need to turn to crime to obtain it" are taking the same stance with guns.

And I have no problem with Pot being legalized.

And the Federal Government needs to stay outta marriage altogether. States rights on that one.

True, it's the same argument... so where have these supporters been?

And I'm lost to how a person like yourself sees how any governing body has a say in what 2 consenting adults do with each other in their bedroom?

 

[GoIrish41]

That passes a background check that runs through the FBI......

Nice try.

wrong. in states like Virginia, which has the most lax gunshow laws in the country, there are no background checks. I'm sure there are other states that have similar laws.

Indeed, I've heard several sources report that 40 percent of all guns purchased in this country are bought without a background check.

 

[GoIrish41]

And I hope those of you that are using the "legalizing pot will make it more safe because then it will be more accessible and people wont need to turn to crime to obtain it" are taking the same stance with guns.
And I have no problem with Pot being legalized.

And the Federal Government needs to stay outta marriage altogether. States rights on that one.

Pat, I gotta hand it to you. This is the best argument I've seen you make on any thread since you have been on IE. Logical turn of another's argument on them. Well done.

I don't agree with your argument at all, but well argued all the same.

 

[irishpat183]

wrong. in states like Virginia, which has the most lax gunshow laws in the country, there are no background checks. I'm sure there are other states that have similar laws.

Indeed, I've heard several sources report that 40 percent of all guns purchased in this country are bought without a background check.

Dude, where the hell are you getting your info? They absolutely have a background check...

FROM THE FBI"s website (but I'm sure you'll tell me that they're lying):

Virginia Background Check and Gun Laws


"Purchasing of firearms

■ A person may not sell or otherwise furnish firearms to any person he knows is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm pursuant to § 18.2-308.1:1, 18.2-308.2, subsection B of § 18.2-308.2:01, or § 18.2-308.7.
■ Dealers must perform a criminal background check.
■ Non-residents may purchase long guns and handguns, but a handgun purchase requires a report from the Department of State Police.
■ One handgun per 30-day period.

 

[irishpat183]

Pat, I gotta hand it to you. This is the best argument I've seen you make on any thread since you have been on IE. Logical turn of another's argument on them. Well done.

I don't agree with your argument at all, but well argued all the same.

Every blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.....LOL

 

[brandonnash]

Being I am not a well versed scholar on constitutional law, can someone remind me where in the constitution it mentions our right to smoke pot and marry the same sex?

 

[irishpat183]

True, it's the same argument... so where have these supporters been?

And I'm lost to how a person like yourself sees how any governing body has a say in what 2 consenting adults do with each other in their bedroom?

I don't care what they do in their bedrooms.

States can actually, despite what Ed Schultz has told you, declare a religion ( there is no seperation of "church" and "state" in our founding docs and the first amendment only applies to the USA, not states). Therefore, if they decided that they want to declare christinaity their offical religion and that they want to outlaw gay marriage due to their religion....

That is where my argument comes from. On the filp side, I have no problem whatsoever with states that do allow it. Good for them.

 

[irishpat183]

Being I am not a well versed scholar on constitutional law, can someone remind me where in the constitution it mentions our right to smoke pot and marry the same sex?

Well, it doesn't say that we can't.....which means those topics are deferred to the STATES.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I don't care what they do in their bedrooms.

States can actually, despite what Ed Schultz has told you, declare a religion ( there is no seperation of "church" and "state" in our founding docs and the first amendment only applies to the USA, not states). Therefore, if they decided that they want to declare christinaity their offical religion and that they want to outlaw gay marriage due to their religion....

That is where my argument comes from. On the filp side, I have no problem whatsoever with states that do allow it. Good for them.

I honestly don't know who Ed Schultz is or much about constitutional law, but I'm confused... doesn't that go against everything America stands for?

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

In other words our founding fathers were terrified of a tyrannical federal government, but were fine with a state government taking away people's freedoms?

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

What about the gun sellers. Right now at gun shows they can sell to anyone they want.

Not in all states they can't. In many states, if you buy guns from a private party, or through a gun show, you still have to go through a Federally licensed firearms dealer to do the legal transfer and the registration.

I live in California which is home to some of the toughest gun laws in the country. Including, but not limited to: limits on all magazines to 10 rounds or less, background checks for ALL firearms purchases, waiting periods for all guns, and restrictions on the evil "assault weapons". Those restrictions include a component called a "bullet button" which makes a tool necessary to eject the empty magazine before loading a new one. The tool cannot be permanently affixed to the weapon. The "bullet button" has to be on all magazine fed, semi-automatic rifles that have a pistol grip.

Now, stay with me because this is where CA gun legislation gets downright nutty - On a semi-automatic AR-15 type weapon with a 10 round magazine in .223 caliber, a bullet button is required to be California compliant. On a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch rifle with a 10 round magazine in .223 caliber, a bullet button is not required. Why you ask? Because the Mini-14 does not have the pistol grip or the flash hider. Both of which have ZERO to do with the actual functionality of the weapon. It just so happens that people have demonized the AR-15 becuase "it looks scary!" It LOOKS like a military type rifle.

So California has some of the toughest gun laws in the country, but do you really think we are any safer? No. Criminals don't care about the laws. The only ones that will follow the laws are the law abiding citizens which are already responsible gun owners. There are still 30 round magazines being used as well as non-CA compliant rifles, and fully automatic weapons as well (the fully auto ban is a FEDERAL law mind you).

 

[Downinthebend]

I don't care what they do in their bedrooms.

States can actually, despite what Ed Schultz has told you, declare a religion ( there is no seperation of "church" and "state" in our founding docs and the first amendment only applies to the USA, not states). Therefore, if they decided that they want to declare christinaity their offical religion and that they want to outlaw gay marriage due to their religion....

That is where my argument comes from. On the filp side, I have no problem whatsoever with states that do allow it. Good for them.

Declaring a more-or-less ceremonial "official" religion is much different than enforcing said religion onto others. The early history of our country had a large amount of religious strife and abuse. I don't understand how freedom of conscious is not an unalienable similar to one's life. Unless of course you (generalized you, not you specifically) believe the government was founded in order to force men to live morally, and are able take away one's life, liberty, property and pursue of happiness to achieve that goal.

Enforcing religion onto others in states just smacks of "tyranny of the majority" which is a major issue that the founders fought.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Being I am not a well versed scholar on constitutional law, can someone remind me where in the constitution it mentions our right to smoke pot and marry the same sex?

That's the 420th Amendment and the 69th Amendment.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

That's the 420th Amendment and the 69th Amendment.

Correct on the 420th amendment, but the 69th is an impossibility...

 

[Irish Houstonian]

In other words our founding fathers were terrified of a tyrannical federal government, but were fine with a state government taking away people's freedoms?

Yup. State constitutions were already in place or being drafted to do that heavily lifting. Federal constitution was just for the federal gov't.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Correct on the 420th amendment, but the 69th is an impossibility...

Only if you're a lot taller than your husband.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Only if you're a lot taller than your husband.

You're right... I always imagined the 6 as a guy and the 9 as a girl, but the position says nothing about that.

On the "heavy lifting" quote, would you happen to know why (or where I can find) the FF being ok with freedoms being stripped by state govt's as acceptable but if the the federal gov't does it then there is a major problem. How did they imagine them differently?

 

[GoIrish41]

Dude, where the hell are you getting your info? They absolutely have a background check...

FROM THE FBI"s website (but I'm sure you'll tell me that they're lying):

Virginia Background Check and Gun Laws


"Purchasing of firearms

■ A person may not sell or otherwise furnish firearms to any person he knows is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm pursuant to § 18.2-308.1:1, 18.2-308.2, subsection B of § 18.2-308.2:01, or § 18.2-308.7.
■ Dealers must perform a criminal background check.
■ Non-residents may purchase long guns and handguns, but a handgun purchase requires a report from the Department of State Police.
■ One handgun per 30-day period.

Virginia Lawmakers Take on "Gun Show Loophole" | NBC4 Washington

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Weird... I just bought a handgun here in TX at a gun show and a background check was performed. I know for a fact that Texas law is less strict that Virginia, too.

 

[kmoose]

Dude, where the hell are you getting your info? They absolutely have a background check...

FROM THE FBI"s website (but I'm sure you'll tell me that they're lying):

Virginia Background Check and Gun Laws


"Purchasing of firearms

■ A person may not sell or otherwise furnish firearms to any person he knows is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm pursuant to § 18.2-308.1:1, 18.2-308.2, subsection B of § 18.2-308.2:01, or § 18.2-308.7.
■ Dealers must perform a criminal background check.
■ Non-residents may purchase long guns and handguns, but a handgun purchase requires a report from the Department of State Police.
■ One handgun per 30-day period.

But a private citizen doesn't have to. And thousands of guns change hands, at gun shows, without any background check. That's one of the gun control advocates' biggest complaints; and I agree with them. But I think it is incumbent upon the government, to make it easy enough that anyone can get an affordable background check taken care of at a weekend gun show.

 

[PJWhitfield]

The key word (for unnoticed distortion) from ABC is "developed" countries. ABC, or its source, simply frame the picture to get what they want. As John Lott has pointed out, the U.S. is far from the top in homicides and homicides with a gun. Who's higher? All of Central America, all but one country in South America, Russia, most of Southeast Asia and parts of Eastern Europe. And as economist Lott points out, the highest murder rates are in countries with the strictest gun control.

 

[DSully1995]

The key word (for unnoticed distortion) from ABC is "developed" countries. ABC, or its source, simply frame the picture to get what they want. As John Lott has pointed out, the U.S. is far from the top in homicides and homicides with a gun. Who's higher? All of Central America, all but one country in South America, Russia, most of Southeast Asia and parts of Eastern Europe. And as economist Lott points out, the highest murder rates are in countries with the strictest gun control.

So what you want to compare it to the Sudan? you just dont like what it shows, that America has a real gun violence problem compared to comparable countries.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

So what you want to compare it to the Sudan? you just dont like what it shows, that America has a real gun violence problem compared to comparable countries.

I think the gun issue is severely over-played. Without the intent to shoot someone, the gun wouldn't be a problem. We've got a serious issue of people trying to hurt other people. Taking away access to guns is a bandaid on the real problem.

Also, how are these laws going to combat the 90%+ of gun crimes committed? You know, the crimes committed with illegal guns.

Here's what we need to do

-- responsible background checks
-- combat illegal gun trafficking
-- revamp our mental health system

 

[DSully1995]

I think the gun issue is severely over-played. Without the intent to shoot someone, the gun wouldn't be a problem. We've got a serious issue of people trying to hurt other people. Taking away access to guns is a bandaid on the real problem.

Also, how are these laws going to combat the 90%+ of gun crimes committed? You know, the crimes committed with illegal guns.

Here's what we need to do

-- responsible background checks
-- combat illegal gun trafficking
-- revamp our mental health system

Yes, probably, however it is a bandaid that has worked in nearly every other developped country

 

[GoIrish41]

But a private citizen doesn't have to. And thousands of guns change hands, at gun shows, without any background check. That's one of the gun control advocates' biggest complaints; and I agree with them. But I think it is incumbent upon the government, to make it easy enough that anyone can get an affordable background check taken care of at a weekend gun show.

This. I lived in Virginia for 15 years and know a lot of people who bought guns at gun shows there with absolutely no background checks. Anybody who wants a gun in Virginia can buy one without issue.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Yes, probably, however it is a bandaid that has worked in nearly every other developped country

I'd love to see some stats on that. I've got a feeling that, despite our high gun ownership rate, we are still rather "low" on the homicide by firearm list... all things considered.

 

[DSully1995]

I'd love to see some stats on that. I've got a feeling that, despite our high gun ownership rate, we are still rather "low" on the homicide by firearm list... all things considered.

Come back to reality, Tom

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


in canada were at 0.5 per 100k while the US is nearly 3 per 100k

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | guardian.co.uk