Opinions/Discussions on Guns

JadeBrecks

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One thing I do wonder: if ESPN is smart enough not to show streakers, why can't the media get on board not to publicize mass murderers?

We've basically handed every psycho a playbook to infamy with all this news coverage of the killer.

I have been saying this for a long time. Shoot up a place and your are the center of the medias attentions for a good month. Stop posting the names and photos of the people doing it. Mention it happened but keep who did it quiet so they lose the fame factor.
 

ND NYC

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When they say its not about the money...its about the money.

NRA just finished up their long awaited press conference on all this.

their solution and contribution to the debate: armed guards in every school in america.

sell more guns that will fix it!

the article below predicted as such. no one thought they would try, but some thought/hoped they would in light of Newtown.



National Rifle (Selling) Association

The National Rifle Association is scheduled to hold a news conference on Friday where it says it plans to provide details about its promise of “meaningful contributions” to prevent another a massacre like the one in Newtown, Conn.

We would like to believe that the N.R.A., the most influential opponent of sensible gun-control policies, will do as it says, but we have little faith that it will offer any substantial reforms. The association presents itself as a grass-roots organization, but it has become increasingly clear in recent years that it represents gun makers. Its chief aim has been to help their businesses by increasing the spread of firearms throughout American society.

In recent years, the N.R.A. has aggressively lobbied federal and state governments to dilute or eliminate numerous regulations on gun ownership. And the clearest beneficiary has been the gun industry — sales of firearms and ammunition have grown 5.7 percent a year since 2007, to nearly $12 billion this year, according to IBISWorld, a market research firm. Despite the recession, arms sales have been growing so fast that domestic manufacturers haven’t been able to keep up. Imports of arms have grown 3.6 percent a year in the last five years.

The industry has, in turn, been a big supporter of the N.R.A. It has contributed between $14.7 million and $38.9 million to an N.R.A.-corporate-giving campaign since 2005, according to a report published last year by the Violence Policy Center, a nonprofit group that advocates greater gun control. The estimate is based on a study of the N.R.A.’s “Ring of Freedom” program and very likely understates the industry’s total financial support for the association, which does not publicly disclose a comprehensive list of its donors and how much they have given.

Officials from the N.R.A. have repeatedly said their main goal is to protect the Second Amendment rights of rank-and-file members who like to hunt or want guns for protection. But that claim is at odds with surveys that show a majority of N.R.A. members and a majority of American gun owners often support restrictions on gun sales and ownership that the N.R.A. has bitterly fought.

For instance, a 2009 poll commissioned by Mayors Against Illegal Guns found that 69 percent of N.R.A. members would support requiring all sellers at gun shows to conduct background checks of prospective buyers, which they do not have to do now and which the N.R.A. has steadfastly argued against. If lawful gun owners are willing to subject themselves to background checks, why is the association resisting? Its position appears only to serve the interest of gun makers and dealers who want to increase sales even if it means having dangerous weapons fall into the hands of criminals and violent individuals.

Businesses and special-interest groups often cloak their profit motives in the garb of constitutional rights — think Big Tobacco and its opposition to restrictions on smoking in public places and bold warnings on cigarette packages. The Supreme Court has made clear that the right to bear arms is not absolute and is subject to regulations and controls. Yet the N.R.A. clings to its groundless arguments that tough regulations violate the Second Amendment. Many of those arguments serve no purpose other than to increase the sales of guns and bullets.

 
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chicago51

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A conservative judge's case for an assault weapons. Use link or read it word for word below.

The conservative case for an assault weapons ban - latimes.com

By Larry Alan Burns

December 20, 2012
Last month, I sentenced Jared Lee Loughner to seven consecutive life terms plus 140 years in federal prison for his shooting rampage in Tucson. That tragedy left six people dead, more than twice that number injured and a community shaken to its core.

Loughner deserved his punishment. But during the sentencing, I also questioned the social utility of high-capacity magazines like the one that fed his Glock. And I lamented the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban in 2004, which prohibited the manufacture and importation of certain particularly deadly guns, as well as magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

The ban wasn't all that stringent — if you already owned a banned gun or high-capacity magazine you could keep it, and you could sell it to someone else — but at least it was something.

And it says something that half of the nation's deadliest shootings occurred after the ban expired, including the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn. It also says something that it has not even been two years since Loughner's rampage, and already six mass shootings have been deadlier.

I am not a social scientist, and I know that very smart ones are divided on what to do about gun violence. But reasonable, good-faith debates have boundaries, and in the debate about guns, a high-capacity magazine has always seemed to me beyond them.

Bystanders got to Loughner and subdued him only after he emptied one 31-round magazine and was trying to load another. Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter, chose as his primary weapon a semiautomatic rifle with 30-round magazines. And we don't even bother to call the 100-rounder that James Holmes is accused of emptying in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater a magazine — it is a drum. How is this not an argument for regulating the number of rounds a gun can fire?

I get it. Someone bent on mass murder who has only a 10-round magazine or revolvers at his disposal probably is not going to abandon his plan and instead try to talk his problems out. But we might be able to take the "mass" out of "mass shooting," or at least make the perpetrator's job a bit harder.

To guarantee that there would never be another Tucson or Sandy Hook, we would probably have to make it a capital offense to so much as look at a gun. And that would create serious 2nd Amendment, 8th Amendment and logistical problems.

So what's the alternative? Bring back the assault weapons ban, and bring it back with some teeth this time. Ban the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer and possession of both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Don't let people who already have them keep them. Don't let ones that have already been manufactured stay on the market. I don't care whether it's called gun control or a gun ban. I'm for it.

I say all of this as a gun owner. I say it as a conservative who was appointed to the federal bench by a Republican president. I say it as someone who prefers Fox News to MSNBC, and National Review Online to the Daily Kos. I say it as someone who thinks the Supreme Court got it right in District of Columbia vs. Heller, when it held that the 2nd Amendment gives us the right to possess guns for self-defense. (That's why I have mine.) I say it as someone who, generally speaking, is not a big fan of the regulatory state.

I even say it as someone whose feelings about the NRA mirror the left's feelings about Planned Parenthood: It has a useful advocacy function in our deliberative democracy, and much of what it does should not be controversial at all.

And I say it, finally, mindful of the arguments on the other side, at least as I understand them: that a high-capacity magazine is not that different from multiple smaller-capacity magazines; and that if we ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines one day, there's a danger we would ban guns altogether the next, and your life might depend on you having one.

But if we can't find a way to draw sensible lines with guns that balance individual rights and the public interest, we may as well call the American experiment in democracy a failure.

There is just no reason civilians need to own assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Gun enthusiasts can still have their venison chili, shoot for sport and competition, and make a home invader flee for his life without pretending they are a part of the SEAL team that took out ***** bin *****.

It speaks horribly of the public discourse in this country that talking about gun reform in the wake of a mass shooting is regarded as inappropriate or as politicizing the tragedy. But such a conversation is political only to those who are ideologically predisposed to see regulation of any kind as the creep of tyranny. And it is inappropriate only to those delusional enough to believe it would disrespect the victims of gun violence to do anything other than sit around and mourn their passing. Mourning is important, but so is decisive action.

Congress must reinstate and toughen the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

Larry Alan Burns is a federal district judge in San Diego.
 

Irish Houstonian

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He makes some good points, but I'm not sure what makes his "case" a "conservative" one like the LAT says...It's just the same "case" that everyone else is making. You can be a conservative judge and make a liberal argument.
 

chicago51

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He makes some good points, but I'm not sure what makes his "case" a "conservative" one like the LAT says...It's just the same "case" that everyone else is making. You can be a conservative judge and make a liberal argument.

You may be right. I decide though I am through getting involved with fighting that has gone in this form. I'm just posting the information. Trying to inform people. Everyone can do what they please with it. You decided if you agree with it, disagree with it, you can ignore it, its your call folks.
 

phgreek

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A conservative judge's case for an assault weapons. Use link or read it word for word below.

The conservative case for an assault weapons ban - latimes.com

By Larry Alan Burns

December 20, 2012
Last month, I sentenced Jared Lee Loughner to seven consecutive life terms plus 140 years in federal prison for his shooting rampage in Tucson. That tragedy left six people dead, more than twice that number injured and a community shaken to its core.

Loughner deserved his punishment. But during the sentencing, I also questioned the social utility of high-capacity magazines like the one that fed his Glock. And I lamented the expiration of the federal assault weapons ban in 2004, which prohibited the manufacture and importation of certain particularly deadly guns, as well as magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

The ban wasn't all that stringent — if you already owned a banned gun or high-capacity magazine you could keep it, and you could sell it to someone else — but at least it was something.

And it says something that half of the nation's deadliest shootings occurred after the ban expired, including the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Conn. It also says something that it has not even been two years since Loughner's rampage, and already six mass shootings have been deadlier.

I am not a social scientist, and I know that very smart ones are divided on what to do about gun violence. But reasonable, good-faith debates have boundaries, and in the debate about guns, a high-capacity magazine has always seemed to me beyond them.

Bystanders got to Loughner and subdued him only after he emptied one 31-round magazine and was trying to load another. Adam Lanza, the Newtown shooter, chose as his primary weapon a semiautomatic rifle with 30-round magazines. And we don't even bother to call the 100-rounder that James Holmes is accused of emptying in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater a magazine — it is a drum. How is this not an argument for regulating the number of rounds a gun can fire?

I get it. Someone bent on mass murder who has only a 10-round magazine or revolvers at his disposal probably is not going to abandon his plan and instead try to talk his problems out. But we might be able to take the "mass" out of "mass shooting," or at least make the perpetrator's job a bit harder.

To guarantee that there would never be another Tucson or Sandy Hook, we would probably have to make it a capital offense to so much as look at a gun. And that would create serious 2nd Amendment, 8th Amendment and logistical problems.

So what's the alternative? Bring back the assault weapons ban, and bring it back with some teeth this time. Ban the manufacture, importation, sale, transfer and possession of both assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Don't let people who already have them keep them. Don't let ones that have already been manufactured stay on the market. I don't care whether it's called gun control or a gun ban. I'm for it.

I say all of this as a gun owner. I say it as a conservative who was appointed to the federal bench by a Republican president. I say it as someone who prefers Fox News to MSNBC, and National Review Online to the Daily Kos. I say it as someone who thinks the Supreme Court got it right in District of Columbia vs. Heller, when it held that the 2nd Amendment gives us the right to possess guns for self-defense. (That's why I have mine.) I say it as someone who, generally speaking, is not a big fan of the regulatory state.

I even say it as someone whose feelings about the NRA mirror the left's feelings about Planned Parenthood: It has a useful advocacy function in our deliberative democracy, and much of what it does should not be controversial at all.

And I say it, finally, mindful of the arguments on the other side, at least as I understand them: that a high-capacity magazine is not that different from multiple smaller-capacity magazines; and that if we ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines one day, there's a danger we would ban guns altogether the next, and your life might depend on you having one.

But if we can't find a way to draw sensible lines with guns that balance individual rights and the public interest, we may as well call the American experiment in democracy a failure.

There is just no reason civilians need to own assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Gun enthusiasts can still have their venison chili, shoot for sport and competition, and make a home invader flee for his life without pretending they are a part of the SEAL team that took out ***** bin *****.

It speaks horribly of the public discourse in this country that talking about gun reform in the wake of a mass shooting is regarded as inappropriate or as politicizing the tragedy. But such a conversation is political only to those who are ideologically predisposed to see regulation of any kind as the creep of tyranny. And it is inappropriate only to those delusional enough to believe it would disrespect the victims of gun violence to do anything other than sit around and mourn their passing. Mourning is important, but so is decisive action.

Congress must reinstate and toughen the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

Larry Alan Burns is a federal district judge in San Diego.

...Is there an echo in here. Sounds about like What has been said in here. I hope the powers that be listen to this guy.

As I've said I really don't care the form a weapon comes in, so the "Ban" as he defines it is not at all helpfull. The Ban of injection systems > 10 rounds is what matters to me. Look, I can fabricate something that goes in my 7mm deer rifle that injects round after round after round...(my shoulder would hurt alot) and it would not look like an assault rifle. It is impossible to Ban semi-auto weaons, and anyone who goes there is destined for failure because almost all handguns are just that...so does it matter if a gun "Looks" a certain way? I would reccomend folks not overreach, as the %s flip against you very quickly when you do...focus on capacity, screening, waiting periods, mental illness...that all works.
 

Irish#1

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Try a facelift to our mindset.

People need to change. How we do that? I'm not sure. But slamming this kinda stuff in our face 24/7 can't be helping. How about media get their facts straight and stop glamorizing this stuff.

Please IP, you're not going to try that are you? Have you not read my posts? I have changed. Before this incident I was not for any type of gun restrictions but I am now. However, I could throw your retort right back at you and say the same thing. "Try a facelift to our mindset".
 

brandonnash

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I have been reading a lot of this thread and have really got upset at how people have just thrown common sense out the window. I saw something on another forum I am a member of I wanted to share.

"Laws are only for the lawful. More gun laws/ restrictions, will make no real difference, but will let you feel like you did something useful. If this psycho, didn't have a gun, it would have been a bomb, or a knife, or poison,or the car he took from his mother. I am sick of knee-jerk reactions, and feel good answers, that do nothing but restrict the lawful. The purpose of the second amendment, was to keep the citizen at the same military level as a soldier, to prevent Government from taking your rights from you. The Founding Fathers feared Government, enough to restrict Government. Read your Constitution, Read the Federalist Papers, and learn enough of your history, so you can understand why guns are the backbone of your freedom.
We designate public access areas as “gun free Zones” Schools, malls, public buildings. Great, how well has that been working for you lately? Another school shot up, a theater, and a shopping mall. Oh, did I mention? The mall shooting (another gun free zone) was stopped by a shopper with a CCW? Concealed carry Weapon? The CCW carrier did not even shoot, because there people in the line of fire, but the mall shooter, ran. Entered a stairwell and killed himself. One armed citizen made a difference, without even firing his weapon.
The only thing that would have stopped either shooter, was a few well placed rounds from a CCW. A Gun Free Zone, is not a safety advantage, it's a Target Rich Environment, with no one to shoot back. We protect our money and our products better than we protect our children. Our banks have armed guards, armored cars deliver our money and gemstones. We GPS our shipments, and seal the containers with padlocks, but our children? Break a window….a rock will do that.
We haven't had a child die in a school fire in what? 50 years? But we have regular fire drills, sprinkler systems, fire alarms in every hallway, and fire proof building materials. Yet how many kids have died in schools of violence? Gun Free Zones kill people, because psychos do not obey laws, and seek weak, gun free targets. Think on that, before you call for restrictions on the lawful."

Taking guns or even large capacity mags away will not stop anything. Chances are it won't slow it down either. The fastest and easiest way to help this problem is to put armed guards/ officers/ or even school staff in place in schools. I see it just as the air marshal programs. No one wanted guns on planes before 9/11, but magically after it happened no one seems to have a problem with it.

Everyone just has to remember that if confronted with a psycho with a gun the first thing you would do is either wish you had a gun or call someone that has one.

Stop with all the talk of making more laws for this. It will solve nothing but to put people out of work and put us further away from defending our homes and our freedom. People who are going to commit crimes will do it anyway. Laws only punish the lawful.
 

brandonnash

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Depends on where you are. In the city yes, the police. If you live in the middle of nowhere, police response times could be too slow so a neighbor with a gun. The point is I doubt that if some crazy fool with a gun pointed at you is in front of you the first reaction you would have wouldn't be "hey there is a law against that gun, and if there isn't, someone will make sure there will be".
 

irish1958

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News reports today estimate the cost of supplying one armed officer in each school at between 6 and 10 billion PER YEAR.
To supply firearms to each teacher, train, license, certify and re-certify each year would probably cost ten times this, to say nothing of the cost of the federal department needed to administer the regulations.
I can see it now. Joe Payco enters with assault guns, firing 100 rounds. He has obtained a kit on the Internet which converts his semi into a fully automatic. He walks into the classroom and seeing the teacher sitting on the floor with her 20 kindergarten children reading a story, politely watches while she gets up, goes to the gun safe, enters the combination, withdraws the weapon, releases the safety, and shoots him before he can shoot anyone. Meanwhile the middle age cop is in the john taking forever to pee after his sixth cup of coffee and four donuts because he forgot his prostatic pills that day. The boys restroom is one floor down and fifty yards away from the invaded classroom. He hears 200 rounds being fired and forgetting to zip up, rushes to stop the intruder who has now reloaded with 200 more rounds. However Joe cop has his 38 at the ready and will stop the carnage.
Such is the latest NRA solution to the problem.
I feel much safer and a major sense of relief......this might actually work (in some parallel universe).
 
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IrishinSyria

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Depends on where you are. In the city yes, the police. If you live in the middle of nowhere, police response times could be too slow so a neighbor with a gun. The point is I doubt that if some crazy fool with a gun pointed at you is in front of you the first reaction you would have wouldn't be "hey there is a law against that gun, and if there isn't, someone will make sure there will be".

Absolutely right. A couple of things though.

1) You're absolutely right that there's a big difference between cities and rural areas and what makes sense in a city doesn't necessarily make sense in the sticks.

2) If guns were illegal, or at least not allowed in places like bars and movie theaters, the detection threshold becomes much lower- all you have to do is see a weapon to know there's trouble. This can give people the time to move away and contact proper authorities before the guns come up (obviously, not always. But it takes away the complexity of these situations. Instead of trying to figure out if someone is acting suspiciously, all people need to do is see a gun).

3) Most people aren't that good. They'd hesitate, get nervous and miss or, in a crowded environment, shoot at the wrong target. Trained professionals responding to any situation would then be forced to deal with the extra complexity of having multiple people with weapons, some good some bad. Imagine if 5 people had started shooting in Colorado in a crowded movie theater with tear gas. It would have been ten times worse unless one of them was very very good.

4) It is exceptionally rare that people actually do stop a crime with a weapon.

5) Most gun violence does not come from pre-planned suicidal mass murderers but from people acting on split second impulses. In these cases, concealed weapons tend to make the problem worse, not better.
 

brandonnash

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And in your idea the police make it to the scene just as the shooter let's one last shot ring directly thru his own head after he has completely finished slaying an entire class or more.

The cost would be great depending on what level of security is put in place at a school. On the high end would be a fully certified police officer, well versed in all the laws of the state/municipality including writing traffic tickets for running a stop sign. Highest paid but also the highest trained. The second option would be an armed security guard. This could range in price per school. It could be anywhere from your average man to a returning serviceman. Training would be acceptable for this situation. No need for the extra knowledge brought by the full police officer. Train to take out an attacker and let the police write the report later. The final option would be the cheapest and possibly the easiest to implement. Training for a school staff member. Cost would be a weapon and the training. Reliability would be less, but I would still rather the odds of saving lives with a teacher holding a gun over a teacher throwing an eraser.

Your account of a chief wiggum type of police officer fumbling to unlock a gun cabinet is cute, but we all know is not the truth. Where I work, Nashville police dispatch, the school resource officers carry their sidearm plus additional clips, just as your standard patrolman would have. His response time would be the length of his run to the classroom, all the while radioing for the remainder of his police force to back him up.

The cost could easily be covered by cutting other programs. Foreign aid would be my first stop. $545,000,000 was given to Yemen?????
 

brandonnash

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Absolutely right. A couple of things though.

1) You're absolutely right that there's a big difference between cities and rural areas and what makes sense in a city doesn't necessarily make sense in the sticks.

2) If guns were illegal, or at least not allowed in places like bars and movie theaters, the detection threshold becomes much lower- all you have to do is see a weapon to know there's trouble. This can give people the time to move away and contact proper authorities before the guns come up (obviously, not always. But it takes away the complexity of these situations. Instead of trying to figure out if someone is acting suspiciously, all people need to do is see a gun).

3) Most people aren't that good. They'd hesitate, get nervous and miss or, in a crowded environment, shoot at the wrong target. Trained professionals responding to any situation would then be forced to deal with the extra complexity of having multiple people with weapons, some good some bad. Imagine if 5 people had started shooting in Colorado in a crowded movie theater with tear gas. It would have been ten times worse unless one of them was very very good.

4) It is exceptionally rare that people actually do stop a crime with a weapon.

5) Most gun violence does not come from pre-planned suicidal mass murderers but from people acting on split second impulses. In these cases, concealed weapons tend to make the problem worse, not better.

1. I live in the country but work in the city. First hand knowledge of what response times are. Glad we agree.

2. Once again, would just punish the law abiding. Most states that have carry permits they are listed as a concealed carry permit. You should never know someone has a gun if he/she has a concealed weapon. The states that do not have that concealed stipulation recommend this anyway even though it is not required. Anyone with sense would decide to conceal his weapon and if he didn't he would get the police called on him. While not being arrested, the permit holder would get tired of being detained by the police awaiting verification and validity of his permit.

3. I would rather my chances with someone in a theater with a gun pointed at the shooter than the shooter taking aim freely at defenseless sitting ducks.

4. It is also very rare to have a crime committed against a person holding a weapon.

5. I will disagree there too, at least with the part about making a situation worse. Anyone with a carry permit has had a class teaching them when to draw, when to aim, and when to shoot, well, all but Vermont where they don't require a permit to carry. They at least have some training and range time, and most people with a permit visit the range regularly.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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He makes some good points, but I'm not sure what makes his "case" a "conservative" one like the LAT says...It's just the same "case" that everyone else is making. You can be a conservative judge and make a liberal argument.

Not really, this guy believes you can use threat of execution to eliminate crime.

4. It is also very rare to have a crime committed against a person holding a weapon.

Check shooting statistics. It is not as easy to obtain, because NRA sponsored congressmen have made it illegal for the ATF to publish it anymore, but you are more likely to be shot carrying than not. Crime occurs in real life at about three percent of the rate it is shown on TV, so I do not know how to approach this point. As a culture, we are played, and then taken advantage of because of our fears. Now we are told we have to send our kids to an armed camp to provide them a safe education. Doesn't anyone feel a little stupid for swallowing this?
 
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Bogtrotter07

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News reports today estimate the cost of supplying one armed officer in each school at between 6 and 10 billion PER YEAR.
To supply firearms to each teacher, train, license, certify and re-certify each year would probably cost ten times this, to say nothing of the cost of the federal department needed to administer the regulations.
I can see it now. Joe Payco enters with assault guns, firing 100 rounds. He has obtained a kit on the Internet which converts his semi into a fully automatic. He walks into the classroom and seeing the teacher sitting on the floor with her 20 kindergarten children reading a story, politely watches while she gets up, goes to the gun safe, enters the combination, withdraws the weapon, releases the safety, and shoots him before he can shoot anyone. Meanwhile the middle age cop is in the john taking forever to pee after his sixth cup of coffee and four donuts because he forgot his prostatic pills that day. The boys restroom is one floor down and fifty yards away from the invaded classroom. He hears 200 rounds being fired and forgetting to zip up, rushes to stop the intruder who has now reloaded with 200 more rounds. However Joe cop has his 38 at the ready and will stop the carnage.
Such is the latest NRA solution to the problem.
I feel much safer and a major sense of relief......this might actually work (in some parallel universe).

This post may have the highest intelligence and humor, to average found in the other thread posts (including mine and yours) of the thread it is posed in on IE ever.

Of course the only reason the NRA came out in favor of turning schools into armed camps, is to obfuscate the true solutions to the problem, and sell more guns.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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Well we have seen what happens in an unarmed "camp". Several times.

Exactly! There are about 100,000 public schools in America. So in the last five years, out of about 90,000,000 opportunities (180 day regular school year only), gunmen have targeted them how many times? Three, four?

I had some very intelligent commanders in the military, and if I think back to how they would have attacked the problem, to a man, I think they would have attacked the potential shooters, and their weapons, rather than defended all the targets . . .

But they were all intelligent men.
 

brandonnash

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So where is the next potential shooter? I will drive there myself to rid us of the potential he has.

We don't know that. If we did that would be a logical solution. Attack the potential shooter. But we don't. So let's defend. That's our only choice right now.
 
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micks60

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Exactly! There are about 100,000 public schools in America. So in the last five years, out of about 90,000,000 opportunities (180 day regular school year only), gunmen have targeted them how many times? Three, four?

I had some very intelligent commanders in the military, and if I think back to how they would have attacked the problem, to a man, I think they would have attacked the potential shooters, and their weapons, rather than defended all the targets . . .

But they were all intelligent men.

So the flipside of what you said is do we protect our own country with safeguards from potential threats? Or do we just go attack every potential threat.
Works both ways.
 

BobD

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Arming teacher's and administrators is stupid. The next story we hear could be about a psycho teacher shooting a student or blasting a cap in the teacher of the class next door for taking the eraser. Just because you're a teacher doesn't mean your mentally stable.

I'd rather find and destroy about 70 percent of the guns in the US, but that's not realistic.

While not a pleasing thought...
Maybe a police officer and K9 at every school (or more for large schools) would help? Maybe even have the officer teach a public service type class?? We do need more police officers across the country. So many cities have cut back too far.
Maybe start a first responder ROTC type program???
Just thinking out loud .
 
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Bogtrotter07

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There are mental health screening procedures that could be put into place;

Sources in Ohio indicate that the rate of gun crime among those who successfully complete concealed carry status is negligible;

Questionnaires could be set up to determine household residents criminal offense and mental health history;

Threats to commit hate crimes, or to commit crimes against individuals at schools and hospitals could be run down. A class of major misdemeanor could be created to tag potential threats.

The list is endless. All it requires is a clear and open minded perspective.
 

GoIrish41

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So where is the next potential shooter? I will drive there myself to rid us of the potential he has.

We don't know that. If we did that would be a logical solution. Attack the potential shooter. But we don't. So let's defend. That's our only choice right now.

There are logical solutions, but those in favor of gun ownership aren't interested in logic, they are interested in owning guns. If you "defend" every potential target, every third person in the country would be in law enforcement. To defend is not our only choice, it is the only one that some will accept.

When you start hearing "solutions" like putting even more guns into circulation, it just makes people sound foolish and desperate to have their own way.
 

Downinthebend

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There are logical solutions, but those in favor of gun ownership aren't interested in logic, they are interested in owning guns. If you "defend" every potential target, every third person in the country would be in law enforcement. To defend is not our only choice, it is the only one that some will accept.

When you start hearing "solutions" like putting even more guns into circulation, it just makes people sound foolish and desperate to have their own way.

You're right logic is incompatible with owning guns.
 

brandonnash

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There are logical solutions, but those in favor of gun ownership aren't interested in logic, they are interested in owning guns. If you "defend" every potential target, every third person in the country would be in law enforcement. To defend is not our only choice, it is the only one that some will accept.

When you start hearing "solutions" like putting even more guns into circulation, it just makes people sound foolish and desperate to have their own way.

No, what sounds foolish is someone who believes the government will snap their fingers, sign a new law making all the guns disappear and all the insane killers will turn themselves in to a treatment facility.

There will always be guns in america. There will always be criminals. If we want our children to be safe we have to defend them.
 

DSully1995

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No, what sounds foolish is someone who believes the government will snap their fingers, sign a new law making all the guns disappear and all the insane killers will turn themselves in to a treatment facility.

There will always be guns in america. There will always be criminals. If we want our children to be safe we have to defend them.

Your speaking in absolutes and distorting the arguments. Yes ofcourse there will be criminals, the thing is why must there be so many in america?
 

GoIrish41

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No, what sounds foolish is someone who believes the government will snap their fingers, sign a new law making all the guns disappear and all the insane killers will turn themselves in to a treatment facility.

There will always be guns in america. There will always be criminals. If we want our children to be safe we have to defend them.

who believes this is the case?

I think you give this country too little credit if you believe it cannot recover from its mistakes -- it has a long and distinguished history of evolution.
 
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