Opinions/Discussions on Guns

[woolybug25]

I'll talk about the other stuff some other time, but wasn't the gun used a semi-automatic?

It was an assault rifle. I didn't try to allude to it being an automatic. Doesn't matter when it has a 100 round clip.

 

[ND NYC]

below is from the ny post: (has exact weapon been determined?)

"Lanza is believed to have used a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle in the school attack, a civilian version of the military's M-16 and a model commonly seen at marksmanship competitions. It's similar to the weapon used in a recent shopping mall shooting in Oregon.

Versions of the AR-15 were outlawed in the US under the 1994 assault weapons ban. That law expired in 2004..."

 

[pkt77242]

Do you think for a second that the shooter cared about if he broke laws? If the answer "No" then why do you think limiting clip size would limit him?

You don't think that having the teachers have guns would have helped in any way? But yes lets go with your method of having the guns ONLY available to those who have bad intentions (and the government). I think the solution is to have 3-4 people per 100 in a building be trained and carry a gun.

Also I before anyone brings up video games, lets use a real world example: what our government does on a daily basis.

It absolutely would limit the amount of death that he could deal. In about 6-7 minutes he fired hundreds of shots with his assault rifle, if he only had a handgun with a 10 round clip he would have been hard pressed to fire anywhere near that many which means that we are likely talking about significantly less dead. Banning assault weapons and large magazines doesn't prevent crazy people from killing others it just limits the damage that they can do.

Again, it takes 3 things to fix this issue, gun laws that actually have teeth and are enforceable, revamping our mental health system and prioritizing how we spend money (more spent on mental health, more police on the street, better security at schools, etc).

 

[NYMIKE6]

Or for the real crazies out there why bother with 100 round clips... just get some good ol' grade A fertilizer, some race fuel and rent a truck.... all legal and very accessible... The argument is always going to be debated...

 

[Downinthebend]

It absolutely would limit the amount of death that he could deal. In about 6-7 minutes he fired hundreds of shots with his assault rifle, if he only had a handgun with a 10 round clip he would have been hard pressed to fire anywhere near that many which means that we are likely talking about significantly less dead. Banning assault weapons and large magazines doesn't prevent crazy people from killing others it just limits the damage that they can do.

Again, it takes 3 things to fix this issue, gun laws that actually have teeth and are enforceable, revamping our mental health system and prioritizing how we spend money (more spent on mental health, more police on the street, better security at schools, etc).

My whole point is he won't give two shits about the law and will obtain whatever round clip he can.

 

[NYMIKE6]

You said that the cops carry them to protect themselves. They certainly do not. Assault weapons for police officers are an offensive component of their arsenal. They are not brought out to defend, but rather attack.

The same reason crazy people use them to shoot up schools and movie theaters.

This is simply not true, I have a personal friend that works school security at a elementary school outside of Elizabeth, NJ. A suspect in a shooting, was on the run. He also exchanged shots with local police. Since the school was so close the local police pulled their AR's out of the trunks of their cruisers and escorted children out, then all the staff members. Since he was Security he was one of the last to leave. He had a conversation with some of the police members and they had said that if it wasn't for 2 facts in the situation they probably wouldn't have taken out the heavy hardware. One suspect shot at a fellow officer, and two there were so many civilians to protect they wanted to have the advantage of fire power to protect them.

I know not all situations are the same, so saying it works one way or another is simply not true. I believe it goes by the officers decision and situation.

 

[woolybug25]

This is simply not true, I have a personal friend that works school security at a elementary school outside of Elizabeth, NJ. A suspect in a shooting, was on the run. He also exchanged shots with local police. Since the school was so close the local police pulled their AR's out of the trunks of their cruisers and escorted children out, then all the staff members. Since he was Security he was one of the last to leave. He had a conversation with some of the police members and they had said that if it wasn't for 2 facts in the situation they probably wouldn't have taken out the heavy hardware. One suspect shot at a fellow officer, and two there were so many civilians to protect they wanted to have the advantage of fire power to protect them.

I know not all situations are the same, so saying it works one way or another is simply not true. I believe it goes by the officers decision and situation.

What are you trying to say here? You are proving my point exactly. They went on the offensive in order to escort children out.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

What are you trying to say here? You are proving my point exactly. They went on the offensive in order to escort children out.

I'm pretty sure it was more a defensive move to protect children. aka look at our fire power, we can out gun you if you try to take out these kids...

 

[woolybug25]

I'm pretty sure it was more a defensive move to protect children. aka look at our fire power, we can out gun you if you try to take out these kids...

Or they grabbed their assault rifles so they could shoot at will if he was seen. How is this situation anywhere near a situation someone would have protecting their home?

Some of you dudes are a bad week from becoming militia.

 

[NYMIKE6]

What are you trying to say here? You are proving my point exactly. They went on the offensive in order to escort children out.

Read post below yours...

 

[NYMIKE6]

I'm pretty sure it was more a defensive move to protect children. aka look at our fire power, we can out gun you if you try to take out these kids...

Exactly... Offensive would be pursuing suspect not setting a perimeter to escort civilians to safety...

 

[NYMIKE6]

Or they grabbed their assault rifles so they could shoot at will if he was seen. How is this situation anywhere near a situation someone would have protecting their home?

Some of you dudes are a bad week from becoming militia.

Woah there killer, relax. And can you explain to me the difference between a "Militia" and a "Gun Club"... since we are throwing these labels out there?
Both are a group of people that congregate and shot firearms together.
I'd imagine you think people that belong to both want to bring down the government and are paranoid?

 

[woolybug25]

Read post below yours...

Regardless of your one point, which is completely unrealistic as a home defense situation, how does this story why one would need a gun that shoots capable of killing over a hundred people in a matter of minutes?

Does that help you protect your home better for when the Russians attack?

Get real, these are police officers. They have reasoning to have assault rifles because they might have to take part in an actual assault. Your story doesn't prove that these guns are designed as offensive killing machines. Which they are.

 

[NYMIKE6]

Regardless of your one point, which is completely unrealistic as a home defense situation, how does this story why one would need a gun that shoots capable of killing over a hundred people in a matter of minutes?

Does that help you protect your home better for when the Russians attack?

Get real, these are police officers. They have reasoning to have assault rifles because they might have to take part in an actual assault. Your story doesn't prove that these guns are designed as offensive killing machines. Which they are.

I am absolutely real, unlike you and your very opinionated ways i like to debate things like this without insulting people. You obviously have difficulty with this. Your way of thinking or its wrong. Your a funny dude....DUDE....

 

[Grahambo]

In regards to the topic above, its used as both an offensive and defensive weapon.

You are defending the children. No questions about it.

You are also using it as a show of force and will use the bigger, better weapon to defend these children.

If somebody is using body armor, you have to upgrade. Only way you stand a chance. Not to mention the rifles shoot further, etc.

Just some observation from experience.

 

[woolybug25]

Woah there killer, relax. And can you explain to me the difference between a "Militia" and a "Gun Club"... since we are throwing these labels out there?
Both are a group of people that congregate and shot firearms together.
I'd imagine you think people that belong to both want to bring down the government and are paranoid?

No, I believe some of you feel like the rest of the country has no right to want to make the country safer by taking simple steps to protect themselves from your firearms. These same "militia" type people that want to own assault rifles are doing a **** poor job from protecting the rest of society from their firearms.

If we weren't having mass killings in our movie theaters, schools and malls every couple months we wouldn't be having this conversation, now would we?

 

[woolybug25]

I am absolutely real, unlike you and your very opinionated ways i like to debate things like this without insulting people. You obviously have difficulty with this. Your way of thinking or its wrong. Your a funny dude....DUDE....

I haven't insulted anybody. You haven't proved me wrong either. You just keep using the same worn out excuses for why we should just not do anything despite the escalating amount of killings that keep happening.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Who would you attack: Home A that has no guns, or Home B that has guns?


My point, the more gun control laws there are, the more it affects the lawful gun owner just trying to defend himself than it does any criminal.


We do not have a gun problem, we have a society problem and a mental health problem. Our culture is fascinated by violence (how many crime shows do we have on television?)

 

[woolybug25]

Who would you attack: Home A that has no guns, or Home B that has guns?

Again, I don't think anyone has said that the right to protect your home with firearms should be taken away. I don't know why it keeps coming back to this.

 

[NYMIKE6]

No, I believe some of you feel like the rest of the country has no right to want to make the country safer by taking simple steps to protect themselves from your firearms. These same "militia" type people that want to own assault rifles are doing a **** poor job from protecting the rest of society from their firearms.

If we weren't having mass killings in our movie theaters, schools and malls every couple months we wouldn't be having this conversation, now would we?

As i stated in an earlier post... It is not the guns that kill people, it's the people that kill people. Heres the "skinny" July 2012 James Holmes kills 12 in a movie theatre, August 2012 Wade Michael Page kills six at Sikh temple, Dec 2012 Adam Lanza kills 26 in an elementary school... besides the obvious all white males in which 2 out of the 3 are early 20's the MOST ALARMING THING IS, THEY WERE ALL TO HAVE BEEN THOUGHT MENTALLY ILL!!!!!!!!

 

[Grahambo]

Who would you attack: Home A that has no guns, or Home B that has guns?

To me, in my opinion despite you not really asking me, it wouldn't matter.

On impulse? Then obviously the house without but if I'm doing it right, it would be just as easy to attack the house with guns.

 

[Downinthebend]

I haven't insulted anybody. You haven't proved me wrong either. You just keep using the same worn out excuses for why we should just not do anything despite the escalating amount of killings that keep happening.

Ok, I'll bite. What do you want? If you had power by decree tomorrow what would you do to increase safety?

 

[RallySonsOfND]

Again, I don't think anyone has said that the right to protect your home with firearms should be taken away. I don't know why it keeps coming back to this.

Gun "control" does this though.

 

[woolybug25]

As i stated in an earlier post... It is not the guns that kill people, it's the people that kill people. Heres the "skinny" July 2012 James Holmes kills 12 in a movie theatre, August 2012 Wade Michael Page kills six at Sikh temple, Dec 2012 Adam Lanza kills 26 in an elementary school... besides the obvious all white males in which 2 out of the 3 are early 20's the MOST ALARMING THIS IS THEY WERE ALL TO HAVE BEEN MENTALLY ILL!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to respond to this because I simply have no idea what you are trying to say. That last sentence is so poorly put together that whatever point you are trying to make is completely lost, despite the clever use of all caps.

 

[NYMIKE6]

I haven't insulted anybody. You haven't proved me wrong either. You just keep using the same worn out excuses for why we should just not do anything despite the escalating amount of killings that keep happening.

Thats an assumption not fact... Plus you have never asked me the question of what should be done?? You assume i am like everyone else... Which makes my assumption of you very accurate... I do not have any "WARN OUT EXCUSES"... that actually made me laugh....

 

[NYMIKE6]

I'm not going to respond to this because I simply have no idea what you are trying to say. That last sentence is so poorly put together that whatever point you are trying to make is completely lost, despite the clever use of all caps.

Fixed for you internet tough guy....

Fact is all the most recent mass shootings are the result of mental instability...

People like you are a joke, Let's take away guns or limit how many rounds we can carry so we can live in a Utopia... While all the criminals laugh and the crime rate soars to new heights... It would be a hay day for the criminals...

 

[Grahambo]

How many guns are sold in the US? | News | guardian.co.uk

FASTSTATS - Homicide

Some Uncomfortable Numbers About Guns in America - Politics - The Atlantic Wire

What the US can learn from Australia about gun control

 

[woolybug25]

Ok, I'll bite. What do you want? If you had power by decree tomorrow what would you do to increase safety?

Thanks for the conversational response, despite my argumentative tone, I am really trying to have reasonable discussion on the matter.

I'm with many others on here when I say that it needs to be a multi-pronged approach. I feel that assault rifles and automatic weapons need to come with a great deal of responsibility if owned in this country. If we continue to allow these types of weapons to be owned, then they need to come with strict responsibilities. I like the laws in NY in this respect, but they have no bite because most people don't realize they exist and they can simply buy their guns out of state. I believe that if a firearm in this category is owned, then it must be registered. If, for any reason it is found on a person with no registration, that person is liable for large fines and/or jail time. If a felony is committed with it, then you have a mandatory jail/prison term. Even if it was stolen or used by someone else, it is your responsibility to protect the general public from your decision to own a killing device designed to kill on a large scale. It's a right, not a privilege. These laws need to be consistent, regardless of what state line you are in.

Second. I feel that it is a disgrace that our country has no easy access to mental health care. Anybody that is capable of killing children in a school is obviously mentally ill. If this is addressed early and often, then maybe we can stop some of these people before they commit these horrible crimes. I think part of the Healthcare Bill should include easy access to mental healthcare.

Finally, I think that we need to get more serious in this country about family. We are currently cutting funding to programs like Big Brothers, Big Sisters, After School Programs and free family counseling. Instead of families becoming closer, today's children are busy playing shooter games and watching killing movies. Add poor family structure and the destruction of the family unit, and why are we surprised that today's youth is more destructive than ever?

Thanks again for the rational dialogue.

Thats an assumption not fact... Plus you have never asked me the question of what should be done?? You assume i am like everyone else... Which makes my assumption of you very accurate... I do not have any "WARN OUT EXCUSES"... that actually made me laugh....

I don't care what your thoughts are on this. Most of the stuff you have written isn't even legible nonetheless intelligent dialogue. This will be my last response to you. Feel free to have some witty "last word", because I simply have no interest in debating with you.

 

[woolybug25]

Gun "control" does this though.

I think we are talking about two different things. The argument of "house A vs house b" is a different conversation than how we manage the right of owning assault rifles. I don't believe in any way that citizens shouldn't be able to arm themselves in order to protect themselves, but how that is managed is a discussion that should be discussed and debated. If not now, then when?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I love you guys! You are my favorites. But:

How many houses are being attacked shock troop assault style?

I didn't tell any of you this, but remember when those guys, offshoots of the Michigan Militia, what did they call themselves? The Whotu? Well I had a girlfriend that lived within a mile of there and she showed me tapes of the black choppers flying overhead all night long. Those guys guns did them no good. Sooner or later, we may as well come back from fantasy land and get down to bi'ness take care of mental health issues and see what that does to limit the deaths.

Thank you for your patience.