Maurice Clarett - The Incredible (Sad) Story

WaveDomer

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Hard to tell. Depends on person and prison environment. I've known "soft" people that go into prison and come out scary. Then there are the rougher people who go in and come out a better person.

I just find it incredibly interesting, and also frustrating, that the prison system can be both effective and destructive at the same time. It makes you wonder how much better we would be as a society if we focused on making prison effective, if it's even possible. But how does a guy like Maurice Clarett decide to make every right choice in the place where it is probably easier to make the wrong choice?
 

irishpat183

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I just find it incredibly interesting, and also frustrating, that the prison system can be both effective and destructive at the same time. It makes you wonder how much better we would be as a society if we focused on making prison effective, if it's even possible. But how does a guy like Maurice Clarett decide to make every right choice in the place where it is probably easier to make the wrong choice?

Some people just aren't meant to succeed. Not everyone can be reformed. No matter how much money, treatment, punishment...etc. that you throw at them.

Plain and simple.

Some people, are just losers. Harsh, but true.
 
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irishpat183

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I'm not going to argue that the guy wasn't an idiot. However, being addicted to drugs and/or alcohol is a disease. Pretty much everyone knows someone who has jacked their life up because of an addiction to one of these things. That stuff is the devil, honestly. And your capacity for being an idiot increases a thousand fold when you are addicted. And it doesn't have to be hardcore crime, it can be just someone messing up their relationship with family due to drinking or drugging.

Plus, when you have people letting you do anything you want from high school on, what the hell do you expect? I don't absolve him of responsibility, but I can also view it as sad and as more than just a dude being an idiot.

The more interesting thing to me is the prison aspect. What makes some guys transform their lives from prison, while others get even worse? I know a guy who is almost the same story, in terms of having gifts and bright future, and then drugs happened. But he turned it around in prison.

Maybe....but it's a disease that they CHOSE to infect themselves with.

Don't compare this to those that suffer from cancer and such. Not in the same ballpark, not even in the same game.

My personal opinion is that calling it a "disease" is an excuse. Again, just my opinion.
 
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Not a fun thing to think about, but those individuals probably had different prison experiences, allowing for the transformation one way or the other.

I just find it incredibly interesting, and also frustrating, that the prison system can be both effective and destructive at the same time. It makes you wonder how much better we would be as a society if we focused on making prison effective, if it's even possible. But how does a guy like Maurice Clarett decide to make every right choice in the place where it is probably easier to make the wrong choice?

Life is bizarre like that.

But I will say Clarett was no fool, you just don't just decide to read Tolstoy and Confucius. he was looking for something and he seems to have found it.
 

Kak7304

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Maybe....but it's a disease that they CHOSE to infect themselves with.

Don't compare this to those that suffer from cancer and such. Not in the same ballpark, not even in the same game.

My personal opinion is that calling it a "disease" is an excuse. Again, just my opinion.

No, it's not a disease like cancer but that doesn't mean it's nonexistent. And as far as "choosing" it, it really is not so cut and dry. There are physiological responses in the brain that make people more susceptible to substance abuse, especially alcoholism. Yes, people have control over whether they start drinking or not, but most don't start with full-blown alcoholism. They start drinking in high school or college just like 90% of other kids that age. By time they or their families realize they may have a problem, it's already a full blown addiction.
 

ickythump1225

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Hard to tell. Depends on person and prison environment. I've known "soft" people that go into prison and come out scary. Then there are the rougher people who go in and come out a better person.
Having worked in the prison/corrections system for the past 4+ years there is room for much improvement in the system. The problem is most states are broke and one of the first places they cut back in the budget is the corrections system because prisons are "out of sight and out of mind." Cutting on schools or benefits would be career suicide so they just continually cut back their DOC budgets. Prisons close, inmates classification levels are magically lowered so they can go to lower security prisons, and correctional officers take pay cuts and are forced to pay more for benefits, and inmate programs i.e. education and vocation training are slashed.

Some inmates come to prison and do truly reform themselves but sadly many of the younger inmates "in the pipeline" come to prison and become convicts. They embrace the "thug life" and get caught up in the gang mentality. Also many inmates that should be in high/max security are arbitrarily reclassified to a lower classification so they can be moved to medium security institutions so they can close down prisons to save on money. The side effect of this is hard core criminals are intermixed with kids in on drug charges or small time charges and they learn to emulate the true bad guys.

Another time bomb in most state's prison systems is a coming race war. As Hispanics start to make up a larger portion of the prison population they are starting to battle for "turf" with black gangs with white gangs in the middle forced to take a side. Gang and racial warfare are starting to take place inside prisons and prison is becoming more and more violent. Unfortunately corrections budgets are shrinking so they cannot hire enough staff to keep up and the nature of corrections lends itself to a high turnover rate amongst staff as many people get burnt out working long hours in stressful and dangerous environments for increasingly less pay.

Sorry for the long winded response but I'm familiar with the inner workings of the prison system and I felt compelled to respond haha.
 

ickythump1225

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Great story, but i'll tell you what Ohio State fans and administration can't be too happy seeing this. Lack of institutional control at it's finest.
Well thankfully noted disciplinarian Urban Meyer is the HC now so he'll have the program under complete control.
 
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Having worked in the prison/corrections system for the past 4+ years there is room for much improvement in the system. The problem is most states are broke and one of the first places they cut back in the budget is the corrections system because prisons are "out of sight and out of mind." Cutting on schools or benefits would be career suicide so they just continually cut back their DOC budgets. Prisons close, inmates classification levels are magically lowered so they can go to lower security prisons, and correctional officers take pay cuts and are forced to pay more for benefits, and inmate programs i.e. education and vocation training are slashed.

Some inmates come to prison and do truly reform themselves but sadly many of the younger inmates "in the pipeline" come to prison and become convicts. They embrace the "thug life" and get caught up in the gang mentality. Also many inmates that should be in high/max security are arbitrarily reclassified to a lower classification so they can be moved to medium security institutions so they can close down prisons to save on money. The side effect of this is hard core criminals are intermixed with kids in on drug charges or small time charges and they learn to emulate the true bad guys.

Another time bomb in most state's prison systems is a coming race war. As Hispanics start to make up a larger portion of the prison population they are starting to battle for "turf" with black gangs with white gangs in the middle forced to take a side. Gang and racial warfare are starting to take place inside prisons and prison is becoming more and more violent. Unfortunately corrections budgets are shrinking so they cannot hire enough staff to keep up and the nature of corrections lends itself to a high turnover rate amongst staff as many people get burnt out working long hours in stressful and dangerous environments for increasingly less pay.

Sorry for the long winded response but I'm familiar with the inner workings of the prison system and I felt compelled to respond haha.

Agree.

Paragraph 2 is exactly what I meant by prison environment.

Paragraph 3 is where things get tricky. CA has had that dynamic for decades, but now the numbers are shifting and new people are making power plays. But I will say that behind all the claims of racial purity blah blah nonsense, those gangs are quite fond of $$$. If you look into what is claimed to be the biggest brown vs black street gang war, you'll see that if $$$ is involved that race stuff gets pushed aside very quickly.
 

tommyIRISH23

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I just find it incredibly interesting, and also frustrating, that the prison system can be both effective and destructive at the same time. It makes you wonder how much better we would be as a society if we focused on making prison effective, if it's even possible. But how does a guy like Maurice Clarett decide to make every right choice in the place where it is probably easier to make the wrong choice?


It's the same with many life experiences. How do some vets see heavy combat and cope with it effectively to lead normal lives? Others develop major PTSD and have terrible issues their entire lives. People aren't the same, we respond differently to different stimulations every day.

I think the reformation comes oneday when you look yourself in the mirror (whether at home, in jail, work..etc) and really see what you are. Reality sinks in and you are forced to confront your reality while contrasting it with your self-image without any rationalizations that enable escaping accountability. You begin to look at where you are, and where you're going without any "rose colored glasses". Some people have the strength to change their lives by asking for help, other retreat back into their shell of delusion by either detaching themselves from their situation, not caring, blaming other people, blaming the world, guilt or some other use of faulty logic.

Its hard to confront your problems, whether they are your fault or not. But, in my expierience, the solution is right there in front of you, you just have to take it. Ive got a friend who was addicted to Oxycontin, and using an obscene amount daily. Its a miracle he's alive. He was in a really bad place for a very long time. Oneday is dad had enough and said you've got two choices; A. Go jump off a bridge because I am not letting you drag your mother through this anymore. B. Get better, fix yourself, and do it on your own because you got yourself into this, you have to get out.

He choose option B. It was a crazy ride for him. The pain he went through was unreal, I'd tell him that he can go to a doctor to take something to subdue the pain and he'd always say no because he wants feel the consequence of his choice and he'll always remember what it felt like to quit and hell never go back. From the day he quit, he never took another prescription pill again. It's been about 6 years clean for him. He owns his own construction company and is doing very very well for himself.

I know that most people need help, and treating an addiction like he did is setting up for failure. But he made the decision to walk away, and stayed committed to it. He didnt blame anyone else, and he wanted to suffer for it. I think that too often today, especially in social sciences, we are very quick to give people an "out" for their behavior and choices; whether it be their socio-economic position, race, religion, some sort of abuse..etc. I think that presents a real problem.
 

ickythump1225

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Agree.

Paragraph 2 is exactly what I meant by prison environment.

Paragraph 3 is where things get tricky. CA has had that dynamic for decades, but now the numbers are shifting and new people are making power plays. But I will say that behind all the claims of racial purity blah blah nonsense, those gangs are quite fond of $$$. If you look into what is claimed to be the biggest brown vs black street gang war, you'll see that if $$$ is involved that race stuff gets pushed aside very quickly.
Oh of course it's all about the money. I was saying earlier the white gangs are normally stuck in the middle and forced to choose a side, they always choose the side with the money and the numbers. The reason these gangs fight so much is over turf because more turf=more money. They choose along racial lines because it's easier to manipulate young kids to join up and it makes it easy to identify fellow "good guys."
 

WaveDomer

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Maybe....but it's a disease that they CHOSE to infect themselves with.

Don't compare this to those that suffer from cancer and such. Not in the same ballpark, not even in the same game.

My personal opinion is that calling it a "disease" is an excuse. Again, just my opinion.

I wasn't comparing them, just stating that you can't simply call him an "idiot" for doing things that he probably wouldn't do when not under the influence of drugs. An idiot starts a bar fight, a guy with serious issues gets Kevlar out and drives to kill someone. Also, I know people choose to start drinking and doing drugs, but at a certain point it can get out of hand and uncontrollable. And just an FYI, people also choose to smoke or have unhealthy diets and get diseases from that.
 

Irish#1

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I'm not going to argue that the guy wasn't an idiot. However, being addicted to drugs and/or alcohol is a disease. Pretty much everyone knows someone who has jacked their life up because of an addiction to one of these things. That stuff is the devil, honestly. And your capacity for being an idiot increases a thousand fold when you are addicted. And it doesn't have to be hardcore crime, it can be just someone messing up their relationship with family due to drinking or drugging.

Plus, when you have people letting you do anything you want from high school on, what the hell do you expect? I don't absolve him of responsibility, but I can also view it as sad and as more than just a dude being an idiot.

The more interesting thing to me is the prison aspect. What makes some guys transform their lives from prison, while others get even worse? I know a guy who is almost the same story, in terms of having gifts and bright future, and then drugs happened. But he turned it around in prison.

This may be true, but there was a point where he wasn't and he chose to impress the older guys with his actions.

OSU had to know what was going on with him, especially when he's driving new cars around. He had to know what he was doing was wrong, especially with all the negative publicity and questions that surrounded him while at OSU, yet he continued to go forward in the wrong direction. I'm glad he's gotten hs life back in order, but I don't feel bad for him and his choices.
 

WaveDomer

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This may be true, but there was a point where he wasn't and he chose to impress the older guys with his actions.

OSU had to know what was going on with him, especially when he's driving new cars around. He had to know what he was doing was wrong, especially with all the negative publicity and questions that surrounded him while at OSU, yet he continued to go forward in the wrong direction. I'm glad he's gotten hs life back in order, but I don't feel bad for him and his choices.

Of course there's a point where you are making choices. There's a point where we all make choices: to start smoking cigarettes, to eat like garbage, to have sex with the cute brunette sitting at the end of the bar. These all have consequences and possible bad ones. Should I not feel bad for people who make those choices and get burned? Do you look at someone who ate junk forever and got a related disease the same way as you look at a drug addict? Having compassion is not some kind of weakness and it's not the same as giving people who mess up a pass. It's probably the first step in really helping people get it together. After all, Bill W. was himself an addict and look at what he created. The phrase "tough love" contains the word "love" for a reason.
 

ND NYC

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Of course there's a point where you are making choices. There's a point where we all make choices: to start smoking cigarettes, to eat like garbage, to have sex with the cute brunette sitting at the end of the bar. These all have consequences and possible bad ones. Should I not feel bad for people who make those choices and get burned? Do you look at someone who ate junk forever and got a related disease the same way as you look at a drug addict? Having compassion is not some kind of weakness and it's not the same as giving people who mess up a pass. It's probably the first step in really helping people get it together. After all, Bill W. was himself an addict and look at what he created. The phrase "tough love" contains the word "love" for a reason.

well put sir
 

Rocky2820

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Of course there's a point where you are making choices. There's a point where we all make choices: to start smoking cigarettes, to eat like garbage, to have sex with the cute brunette sitting at the end of the bar. These all have consequences and possible bad ones. Should I not feel bad for people who make those choices and get burned? Do you look at someone who ate junk forever and got a related disease the same way as you look at a drug addict? Having compassion is not some kind of weakness and it's not the same as giving people who mess up a pass. It's probably the first step in really helping people get it together. After all, Bill W. was himself an addict and look at what he created. The phrase "tough love" contains the word "love" for a reason.

well put sir

I'll second that. I appreciate this perspective, especially given how young Clarette was at the time.
 

Irish#1

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Of course there's a point where you are making choices. There's a point where we all make choices: to start smoking cigarettes, to eat like garbage, to have sex with the cute brunette sitting at the end of the bar. These all have consequences and possible bad ones. Should I not feel bad for people who make those choices and get burned? Do you look at someone who ate junk forever and got a related disease the same way as you look at a drug addict? Having compassion is not some kind of weakness and it's not the same as giving people who mess up a pass. It's probably the first step in really helping people get it together. After all, Bill W. was himself an addict and look at what he created. The phrase "tough love" contains the word "love" for a reason.

I have compassion, more for his kid(s) than him. He had opportunity after opportunity after opportunity to say no and didn't until he finally suffered the consequences. The person who ends up with diabetese because they didn't manage their weight is not the same as someone like Clarret whose actions had the potential to harm others.

I really am glad he's getting his life turned around and hope he continues down the right path for him and his family.
 
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