Manziel: The New Tate Forcier

timm3117

timm3117

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I think Manziel is good, but he is a little overated.

Against Florida, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, and Bama, Mr. Football had 7 total TDs, to 5 INTs, it these games he averaged 4.5 ypc.

In the cupcake portion of the schedule (Auburn, La Tech, SMU, Sam Houston St, S Carolina St, and Ark) 31 total TDs, 2 INTs, and 8.6 ypc.
 
KPENN

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johnnykillz said:
A Heisman contender doesn't need "development" bud. He's there. He's the best player in CFB.

You made my argument for me there.

Thanks.
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Ridiculous.

Te'o admitted his pass defense wasn't good last year and needed work. He's developed that part of his game. By your theory he should be out.
 
J

johnnykillz

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KPENN said:
Ridiculous.

Te'o admitted his pass defense wasn't good last year and needed work. He's developed that part of his game. By your theory he should be out.
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It took him three years as an LB to develop.

I agree.

This year he was molded through trialled and familiar experience from the previous years in CFB.

A war general tested in the trenches.

The best.
 
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irishog77

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timm3117 said:
I think Manziel is good, but he is a little overated.

Against Florida, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, and Bama, Mr. Football had 7 total TDs, to 5 INTs, it these games he averaged 4.5 ypc.

In the cupcake portion of the schedule (Auburn, La Tech, SMU, Sam Houston St, S Carolina St, and Ark) 31 total TDs, 2 INTs, and 8.6 ypc.
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Nice breakdown and investigative reporting! Didn't know this discrepancy existed. It should be broadcast to the masses.
 
Rocky2820

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johnnykillz

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Rocky2820 said:
Forcier didn't develop because he didn't work hard on the field, or in the classroom for that matter. Why do we think Manziel would be similar in that regard?
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I thought Tate was the real deal.

I really did.

Then reality sat in.

I think Manziel is on his way to earning one or two, maybe three.

But not this year. Not with two losses.
 
P

PraetorianND

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KPENN said:
Ridiculous.

Te'o admitted his pass defense wasn't good last year and needed work. He's developed that part of his game. By your theory he should be out.
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But it was good all season. He must have worked on it in the off season and now he's the man. This season he has been the best player in college football.
 
J

johnnykillz

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timm3117 said:
I think Manziel is good, but he is a little overated.

Against Florida, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, and Bama, Mr. Football had 7 total TDs, to 5 INTs, it these games he averaged 4.5 ypc.

In the cupcake portion of the schedule (Auburn, La Tech, SMU, Sam Houston St, S Carolina St, and Ark) 31 total TDs, 2 INTs, and 8.6 ypc.
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Yessir!

There you have it.

Game. Set. Match.
 
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images


This is me by the way (pre P90X).
 
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NewBrunswickIrish

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timm3117 said:
I think Manziel is good, but he is a little overated.

Against Florida, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, and Bama, Mr. Football had 7 total TDs, to 5 INTs, it these games he averaged 4.5 ypc.

In the cupcake portion of the schedule (Auburn, La Tech, SMU, Sam Houston St, S Carolina St, and Ark) 31 total TDs, 2 INTs, and 8.6 ypc.
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Why did you not put Arkansas in the top group. They have the exact same SEC record as Ole Miss and only lost by 3 when they played them. La Tech was a ranked team (probably not now since they lost) for a while this year but do you exclude Michigan st, Michigan, BC, Wake when looking at ND's d? If ND beats USC do you not include their stats becuase thy aren't ranked? Michigan St was ranked when ND played them but aren't anymore so do we exclude them from our stats? Do we only include Navy, Pitt, Purdue when looking at the NDs d stats or Manti's tackles and interceptions? No you take all their stats, you can't pick and choose who you look at. I think Manziel should win the Heisman and I don't think TAMU is that good outside of him. Look at what they did last year with a top ten pick who is fairing well in the NFL as a rookie. Give the kid the credit he deseves.
 
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johnnykillz

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NewBrunswickIrish said:
Why did you not put Arkansas in the top group. They have the exact same SEC record as Ole Miss and only lost by 3 when they played them. La Tech was a ranked team (probably not now since they lost) for a while this year but do you exclude Michigan st, Michigan, BC, Wake when looking at ND's d? If ND beats USC do you not include their stats becuase thy aren't ranked? Michigan St was ranked when ND played them but aren't anymore so do we exclude them from our stats? Do we only include Navy, Pitt, Purdue when looking at the NDs d stats or Manti's tackles and interceptions? No you take all their stats, you can't pick and choose who you look at. I think Manziel should win the Heisman and I don't think TAMU is that good outside of him. Look at what they did last year with a top ten pick who is fairing well in the NFL as a rookie. Give the kid the credit he deseves.
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How can you say Manziel is the best player in CFB?
 
NDinL.A.

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johnnykillz said:
Rivals.com College Football - Forcier may be next freshman in Heisman debate

Here's an old article.

If Forcier had the supporting cast Texas A&M had, he may have been the first freshman to win the award.

But then reality: he wasn't that special.

He had a few good games.

He didn't develop.
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So because Tate didn't develop, that means johnny won't??? So does that mean that Everett Golson won't develop because he's a redshirt freshman mobile QB?

Sorry dude, I'm not feeling you on this one. Your logic doesn't add up. Wanting Te'o to win the Heisman has nothing to do with Tate Forcier and johnny Maziel. Manziel deserves the love he's getting because he is playing quality football, and he is exciting as hell to watch. And Manti deserves all the love he's getting because he's playing quality football and is exciting as hell to watch.

And I'm glad Manziel is balling up the SEC. Eff them...
 
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johnnykillz

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NDinL.A. said:
So because Tate didn't develop, that means johnny won't??? So does that mean that Everett Golson won't develop because he's a redshirt freshman mobile QB?

Sorry dude, I'm not feeling you on this one. Your logic doesn't add up. Wanting Te'o to win the Heisman has nothing to do with Tate Forcier and johnny Maziel. Manziel deserves the love he's getting because he is playing quality football, and he is exciting as hell to watch. And Manti deserves all the love he's getting because he's playing quality football and is exciting as hell to watch.

And I'm glad Manziel is balling up the SEC. Eff them...
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I do think Manziel may develop as long as he doesn't end his career by head first super man diving forward. That's the development I'm talking about.

Develop is the key word.

Heisman is end product. Developed is a Heisman.

The parallel was exalting a kid who isn't the best in CFB to Heisman status: which means they are the best player in CFB.

He's not.

Simply.
 
Whiskeyjack

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Manziel is legit, but he doesn't deserve the Heisman.

Florida contained Johnny Football pretty handily, and LSU made him look bad. aTm lost both of those games.

Te'o is the best player on the best defense in the country; a defense that remains unbeaten.
 
ickythump1225

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I think Johnny Football is a tremendous player and I don't think he'll implode next year in fact I think he'll only get better. He's what Michigan fans envisioned from Denard Robinson.

However I think Te'o should win the award. Without him we are not undefeated and in control of our destiny to the NCG. Without Manziel TAMU has 3 losses instead of 2.
 
NDinL.A.

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johnnykillz said:
I do think Manziel may develop as long as he doesn't end his career by head first super man diving forward. That's the development I'm talking about.

Develop is the key word.

Heisman is end product. Developed is a Heisman.

The parallel was exalting a kid who isn't the best in CFB to Heisman status: which means they are the best player in CFB.

He's not.

Simply.
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Still has nothing to do with Tate Forcier.

And development has nothing to do with the award. He's putting up numbers NOW and winning NOW. By that model he deserves to be mentioned for the award, no doubt. Just because he could be better later, doesn't take away from what he's doing now. Go rewatch the Alabama game and tell me he's not a baller right now.

It's not even a question in my mind that he deserves to be in New York. I don't think he should win it, but the Forcier comparisons are bizarre and complete off-base IMHO.
 
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johnnykillz

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ickythump1225 said:
I think Johnny Football is a tremendous player and I don't think he'll implode next year in fact I think he'll only get better. He's what Michigan fans envisioned from Denard Robinson.

However I think Te'o should win the award. Without him we are not undefeated and in control of our destiny to the NCG. Without Manziel TAMU has 3 losses instead of 2.
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Fair.

I will admit I made a bold prediction by stating he'll implode.

In fact, I hope he does develop and that he doesn't take a step back.

I will gladly eat crow next year, so long as he doesn't hurt our Irish in doing it.

In that case, it would be bitter tasting certainly.
 
drayer54

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His two losses are both small to top 10 teams! Who else can say that in this race?

Perception = Reality = SEC Bigger badder better than the teams that have been playing ND in the last few weeks when the spotlight was on. The story and drama are there. The SEC voters are also there. Enter a kid who can run, throw, score and win with a cool nickname and a good record.

Any speculation about his performance in the future is only speculation and the fact that you think he is a Forcier is completely irrelevant from the trophy being awarded this year.
 
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johnnykillz

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NDinL.A. said:
It's not even a question in my mind that he deserves to be in New York. I don't think he should win it, but the Forcier comparisons are bizarre and complete off-base IMHO.
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Are there others?

Seriously?

I had no idea.

Lol.

I knew I'd be stirring up the **** with this, but I truly felt alone and that no others would see them.

But I really do. Something's feels eerily similar to me.
 
drayer54

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For what it matters, I still say Teo wins. Johnny Football wouldn't shock me though.
 
Chicago Irish Fan

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A comparison of freshman seasons:

Manziel: 3047 passing yards, 21 passing TDs, 7 interceptions, 67.7 completion percentage, 155.1 QB rating, 1114 rushing yards, 17 rushing TDs, 6.5 YPC

Forcier: 2050 passing yards, 13 passing TDs, 10 interceptions, 58.7 completion percentage, 128.1 QB rating, 240 rushing yards, 3 rushing TDs, 2.0 YPC

And now a comparison to recent Heisman winners:

Manziel: 4161 total yards, 38 total TDs(with 2 games still left to play)
Newton: 4327 total yards, 50 total TDs
Tebow: 4181 total yards, 55 total TDs


Sorry, but the Forcier comparison has no legs to stand on. I know we all want T'eo to win the Heisman, but Manziel is unquestionably legit. T'eo may or may not be more worthy, but it won't be a robbery by any means if Manziel wins.
 
ThePiombino

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johnnykillz said:
I didn't expect support when I coined this topic.

I'm just here to say, I'm a skeptic.

He's not Heisman material.

The sports media outlets will replace him immediately with someone else if he implodes the next two games.

Will you be there to hop on that bandwagon?
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That's the God's honest truth.
 
IrishLion

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Is that arrest story part of the argument, or just light reading? Lol
 
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