Kates...

[jimoats]

I've seen two Bishop McDevitt (Harrisburg, PA) games this year. I have been focusing my attention of Jason Kates since I have been reading so much about this kid on the site. My opinion, I wouldn't be terribly upset if we lose out on this house. The kid is a mountain for sure. But he has no lateral movement or quickness. I have yet to seen him break into the backfield to disrupt a play or pressure the QB. He gets winded very easily and is off the field more than he's on. I'm sure Charlie and his staff will whip the kid into even moderate shape but from what I see, that's about 40-50 pounds from now. I think if he stays at his current size and is to succeed at the next level it will be as an offensive lineman.

 

[nayers]

are they double and triple teaming him? how was the competiton? there could be plenty of reasons, with the conditioning that Mendoza has put the players through, he should be much improved

 

[BigIrish]

kates has pledged his loyalty to the irish. personally, i'd like to avoid negative commentary on our commits before they arrive on campus. suffice it to say that the vast, overwhelmingly majority of high school recruits are not ready to play at the college level until they've been through some training with a collegiate staff.

 

[Batch]

kates has pledged his loyalty to the irish. personally, i'd like to avoid negative commentary on our commits before they arrive on campus. suffice it to say that the vast, overwhelmingly majority of high school recruits are not ready to play at the college level until they've been through some training with a collegiate staff.

I concur!!

-Batch

 

[weisfaninmass]

I've seen two Bishop McDevitt (Harrisburg, PA) games this year. I have been focusing my attention of Jason Kates since I have been reading so much about this kid on the site. My opinion, I wouldn't be terribly upset if we lose out on this house. The kid is a mountain for sure. But he has no lateral movement or quickness. I have yet to seen him break into the backfield to disrupt a play or pressure the QB. He gets winded very easily and is off the field more than he's on. I'm sure Charlie and his staff will whip the kid into even moderate shape but from what I see, that's about 40-50 pounds from now. I think if he stays at his current size and is to succeed at the next level it will be as an offensive lineman.

Glad you see stuff that Weis and his staff don't see -- I am sure an email to them will give them religion about Kates. Sorry for the wise ass comments but you asked for it. FYI, Zach Frasers stats are terrible this year too.

 

[Irish Envy]

Now, now guys... he has seen Kates first hand so I think we should be thankful for any comments on our potential players. Not everything is roses on these players and I personally like to hear about things they need to improve on, etc.

Hell, wouldn't you have like to known how much Richardson was burnt back in HS so you could have prepared for it?

 

[Irish Envy]

Just add another point, the fact that Kates is mammoth is the reason he got so many offers. Like basketball, you simply cannot teach size.

 

[BigIrish]

Now, now guys... he has seen Kates first hand so I think we should be thankful for any comments on our potential players. Not everything is roses on these players and I personally like to hear about things they need to improve on, etc.

Hell, wouldn't you have like to known how much Richardson was burnt back in HS so you could have prepared for it?

true enough, but i think it's fair to assume that the coaching staffs recruiting these kids know a little more about them than we do. badmouthing a player that has failed to develop at the college level is one thing, but badmouthing a recruit that has yet to step on campus is unproductive (recruits read web pages too) and a little unfair, given the fact that the (overwhelming) majority of us aren't trained to evaluate talent.

i'm not discouraging anyone from talking about our recruits - i'm simply suggesting that we give them the benefit of the doubt and keep our amateur evaluations at a constructive level.

 

[Irish Envy]

true enough, but i think it's fair to assume that the coaching staffs recruiting these kids know a little more about them than we do. badmouthing a player that has failed to develop at the college level is one thing, but badmouthing a recruit that has yet to step on campus is unproductive (recruits read web pages too) and a little unfair, given the fact that the (overwhelming) majority of us aren't trained to evaluate talent.

i'm not discouraging anyone from talking about our recruits - i'm simply suggesting that we give them the benefit of the doubt and keep our amateur evaluations at a constructive level.

How much more can they really know?

For the most part, recruiting, like the NBA draft, is a crapshoot. All you really get are physical statistics (height, weight, 40) and then what they do on the field. Everything else is just opinion.

For the most part, again like the NBA Draft, it is a potential thing. They are simply taking the kids with good physical characteristics, good performances and hoping they guessed right.

 

[weisfaninmass]

How much more can they really know?

For the most part, recruiting, like the NBA draft, is a crapshoot. All you really get are physical statistics (height, weight, 40) and then what they do on the field. Everything else is just opinion.

For the most part, again like the NBA Draft, it is a potential thing. They are simply taking the kids with good physical characteristics, good performances and hoping they guessed right.

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO WRONG. Did you ever hear of FILM, TAPES, CAMPS (specially Notre Dame camps), Games, and Competitions, which the staff including Recruiting Director, Head Coach, etc all see. How much more do they know than clowns like us who are just fans? Then it would be shear accident that you got good players.

 

[bigdon]

I have never seen Kates play but if he is so bad why are all those colleges after him? Last time I heard Penn State was trying to woo him. Another thing, A 350 pound defensive tackle is what everybody is looking for. He may not be a great pass rusher but he sure can plug up the middle. There aren't many Warren Sapps around.

 

[cdough77]

Tom Lemming recently said in an article in the Chicago S-T that Kates would be better suited for OG at the college level. Weis has to see something in this guy because ND has been recruiting him hard from the get go. You can't teach size.

 

[Irish Envy]

I have never seen Kates play but if he is so bad why are all those colleges after him? Last time I heard Penn State was trying to woo him. Another thing, A 350 pound defensive tackle is what everybody is looking for. He may not be a great pass rusher but he sure can plug up the middle. There aren't many Warren Sapps around.

I started getting feelers from colleges when I was a freshman. Recruiting is a meat market, pure and simple.

 

[leppycole]

I have seen Kates in person and I have to be honest - he has quite a large front porch!!!! After plays got by him, he stopped dead in his tracks. I just do not know about this one guys. Maybe I over bit on the hype and did not take into perspective that he is only in H.S. and could develop into a great Irish player.

 

[guff]

He needs to be nasty - to steal a phrase.

I graduated high school with a kid that was about 6'5" and 300 lbs and that was huge then (1991). He went to Syracuse on a scholarship when they were still relevant and did very little if anything on the football field. While he was huge, he wasn't nasty. And it showed on the field.

 

[jimoats]

After reading all of the comments generated from my original post, I should have included one more phrase. The previous 2 posters point something out. I did not see that "nasty side" of Kates either.

I love the size folks, don't get me wrong. These scouts get paid big bucks to evaluate talent and I hope they are right. These guys are so in tuned with players that they know what they had for lunch 3 days ago. We are on the outside looking in, reading a few posts, and thinking we know everything about these players. I'm basing my OPINIONS only on watching a couple of games. I just don't see what the big deal is yet.

 

[jiggafini19]

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO WRONG. Did you ever hear of FILM, TAPES, CAMPS (specially Notre Dame camps), Games, and Competitions, which the staff including Recruiting Director, Head Coach, etc all see. How much more do they know than clowns like us who are just fans? Then it would be shear accident that you got good players.

NONE of those can compare to seeing a kid play live and in person. These coaches cannot get out to see recruits because they have their own games to play on Saturdays. You need eyes and ears out there. Hence, why I have to see 15-20 high school games a year for my alma mater. I don't tape the games, I watch them. There is a reason for that....the eyes don't lie.

The evaluation process is very lenghy, at least on the I-AA level. If anything, we have to do more work because we're looking for diamonds in the rough, not the Demetrius Jones and Sergio Brown kids of the universe. Tape can be misleading at times. Advantage, player. As for camps, what the helll do I care about a shuttle run and a 40 yard dash? Camps are only going to give you components to a kid's ability. Seeing him live (hopefully from the sidelines if you have connections) gives you the best evaluation tool of them all: your very own eyeballs.

Now, back to Kates. I've heard he's only been playing football for a few years. The video reels I've seen look impressive...but that's what highlights spliced together are supposed to do. I've seen him listed as 6-2, 324 which tells me two things: one, too small to play offensive line; two, that 24 pounds will probably need to go.

Should ND land Kates and McCoy, they'll have the best DT tandem in this year's recruiting class.

And please, don't put so much stock into Tom Lemming. For all of your anti-ND folks out there, Lemming carries the slack with his ND @ss licking. More often than not, he overrates potential ND recuits and local Chicago kids nationally. He's right down the road from my office. Pompous, arrogant and windbag are the three words most frequent when his name comes up in certain circles.

 

[bigdon]

You got that right about Lemming. He's been a ND baiter for years.

 

[guff]

I just watched a McDevitt televised game (replay). On defense he is doubled teamed most of the time and he is still an immovable object. On offense he is OK, his technique is lacking. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of hustle in him.

Unrelated observation. McDevitt's field is crap. Only slightly better than a vacant lot. Alumnus Ricky Watters should cough up some dough and get this team a real field.

 

[cdough77]

I believe McDevitt is playing a natioanlly televised game next Friday against Berwick. The game is going to be on one of the ESPN networks. (ESPNU I think). This should be a measuring stick game for Kates. I am from NEPA and have watched Berwick for over 20 years. While they don't have the best athletes, they are always a well coached, fundamentally sound, nasty bunch of kids. If Kates doesn't come ready to play he will be exposed.

 

[Sir John]

I agree with recruiting is a crapshoot. I don't think these 'paid things' like Rivals, Lemming and what not is the bottom line. All too often the heights given are wrong, the weights, the speed. Most of the time the GPA and SAT is left out. What good is a five star player with a 2.0 GPA for ND?

In addition you simply cannot say how a highly recruited young kid will do in college, both on the field and in the classroom. He might have psychological/ emotional baggage from simply a move away from Family, friends and a girl friend. He's going from a big star at his HS to just another player on campus. The old spin move he used in HS to be a star is not going to cut it in college.

There are thise 'egos' that are the star and 'go to guy.' Can they cut it or dial it down into Weis TEAM mentality?

What ever his rating star wise, you need a Mendoza to shape him up and Coaches to teach him new things he never knew existed at the HS level.

There's things mags like Rivals cannot weigh.

 

[BGIF]

... you need a Mendoza to shape him up and Coaches to teach him new things he never knew existed at the HS level.

Kates wins Heisman by Steve Hare notredame.rivals.com

Not unlike most other high school students, Jason Kates enjoys some down time playing NCAA Football 2006. Already in year 2017 of the dynasty mode, Kates has won several national titles and even a few Heisman trophies playing as a 6-foot-4, 220-pound quarterback.

Mendoza must be a magician!

 

[irish15pilot]

Comments and remarks should be positive in nature. If you can't say anything nice about anybody, please don't say anything. How would you like to read adverse remarks about yourself if you were a D-1 football recruit ?? Let's think before wqe speak !!

 

[jiggafini19]

Comments and remarks should be positive in nature. If you can't say anything nice about anybody, please don't say anything. How would you like to read adverse remarks about yourself if you were a D-1 football recruit ?? Let's think before wqe speak !!

Feel free to send me personal messages that are not sugarcoated.

I scout on a weekly basis and it sometimes hurts to be honest about a kid's ability when you see him in person. That said, I think the new coaching staff isn't a group that will take a kid because he's "nice." From what I hear, Kates is a raw talent that will take some shaping. That's fine.

This is one person's opinion who saw a player live and in person. He posted his impression, be it one 60 minute game, and just happened not to be impressed. Not an issue for me. This is a pro-ND site with ND fans, so 90% of this is going to be glowing praise. I, being one of the few, am able to talk about the flip side of the coin (Although I can't nitpick about the Purdue game at all).

I still hope Kates comes to ND and plays side by side with McCoy and Hand for four years.