Operation Fast and Furious turning into Obama's Watergate.

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Besides, Obama ran on the premise of "Change"...which there has been none of. He spends, goes to war, and lies.


Where is the change? OH! We've put more people on welfare than any other president in history.

Of course, until we stop voting in the same trash over and over again, there will never really be "change".

They ALL run on the premise of change. Not one person has ever run saying, " I will continue all of the policies started by my predecessors."

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Yeah, you did. By even asking that in the wake of his comment, you were looking for an argument.

Why would you bring up Bush, 4 years removed, in a conversation about Obama and his job performance?? What does my opinion of Barry have to do with the job that Bush did?

Ok, what is your opinion of Bill Clinton's and George W. Bush's terms in office?

 

[95NDAlumNM]

What does Bush have to do with Fast and Furious and Eric Holder?

And while you make a point about "track records", it's not an invitation to constantly blame the previous admin. for your admin's shortcomings. Funny how only the "blame" is put on the previous admin, but no credit is given if there was something that worked out.

Gun walking started well before Obama:

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bluto]

What does Bush have to do with Fast and Furious and Eric Holder?

And while you make a point about "track records", it's not an invitation to constantly blame the previous admin. for your admin's shortcomings. Funny how only the "blame" is put on the previous admin, but no credit is given if there was something that worked out.

Again going back to my original post I simply challenged the idea that this was "unprecedented" by pointing out that Bush 2 made some pretty appalling decisions that lead to the death of a large number of service people. That's what this has to do with fast and furious. Bad decisions by the executive branch are nothing new. When juxtaposed with the build up to the Iraq war, the decision to torture prisoners and so on and so forth however, the bad decisions regarding Fast and Furious seem minor in comparison. Darrel Issa and the GOP are simply grandstanding and holding this President to a higher standard than they did the previous administration and that's why the whole watergate comparison is a bit absurd.

Anyhow, why do you assume the current president is my guy? Personally I think his policies would have been considered moderately conservative fifteen years ago and he is more aligned with Reagan's actual policies (not his rhetoric) than the current GOP is. None of which brings me great joy.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I vote Republican as their stands on most of the issues and consistent with mine. With that said, I truly don't believe anything will change in Washington, until something catastrophic happens.

We are headed over a fiscal cliff, and both sides seem to be more concerned with scoring political points then coming up with some sensible compromise. The level of distrust is so great that I am certain that there are times that members of congress would like to make the "right choice" on a given issue, but instead make the "safe choice" because they know that if they made the "right choice", it would be twisted and used against them by either the opposing party or members of their own party. Both parties have decided it is better to do nothing and continue to push for what they view as the "perfect" legislation which has zero chance of passage.

Washington is bankrupt of moral character to make the tough choices and if nothing changes over the next 10 years our country will be bankrupt.

 

[RDU Irish]

Impeached? Will never happen. Even if the radical right in the House does get a majority to impeach, they will NEVER get 2/3 of the Senate to remove him. Would be a huge waste of time, just like Clinton's impeachment debacle.

Notice the word IF in my post. I didn't say it would happen, just said if. Clinton was impeached over lying about an intern. Obama is POSSIBLY lying about gun running gone bad. Our politics are arguably more partisan than they were ten or fifteen years ago. "Never" seems like a much more close minded concept than IF in this case. And the proceedings don't have to be successful, just enough pressure to make him resign, like Nixon. It is the act of lying about it that makes this the big deal, not whether or not the policy was worth a crap. One uncovered email is all it takes and the resignation flies well before any impeachment proceedings, IMO. Again, all a bunch of IFs.

Now how do you feel about the concept of Biden taking over if Obama steps aside for any reason?

 

[RDU Irish]

Besides, Obama ran on the premise of "Change"...which there has been none of. He spends, goes to war, and lies.


Where is the change? OH! We've put more people on welfare than any other president in history.

Of course, until we stop voting in the same trash over and over again, there will never really be "change".

Bingo! While few should be surprised by this behavior in a politician, it should also be no surprise that a lot of people are fed up with it. Only 1 in 20 people need to change their mind relative to the last election and the other 19 really don't matter. Personally I know plenty of people that voted for Obama and regret it to the level of pretty much committing to vote for Romney already. If not they will abstain, Obama has completely lost their support for a variety of reasons.

So I submit to the crowd, who here is considering changing their vote. Either on the fence between the two or changing from last elections party vote. What are your key considerations? Most of the vocal here are committed one way or the other. What may be more telling to the election is what drives the independents and moderates to be swayed from first hand accounts instead of partisans speculating.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

I'm one of those people who regret voting for Obama. I was a McCain supporter until Palin came into the picture... but that's an entirely different thread. My biggest goal in this upcoming election is to vote against Obama. The novelty of our first black president has worn off and it's time for, as Obama would say, CHANGE. Can the next man in be much worse???

 

[RDU Irish]

So your primary motivation was race novelty in voting for Obama or a complete vote against the other guy? I think most observers discount (or ignore) the amount of people that vote absolutely AGAINST a candidate, making your comment very interesting to me.

I have never understood the Palin argument since it is hard to argue Biden is any better than her and both of them are (or should be IMO) side shows to the whole thing. If you think Palin showed poor judgement then how could you not say the same about Biden? I took Palin as a completely pandering pick to the conservative base since McCain is about as moderate as they come. A political move which to me had little bearing on whether McCain was a better or worse candidate.

You are right, entirely different thread there!

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Notice the word IF in my post. I didn't say it would happen, just said if. Clinton was impeached over lying about an intern. Obama is POSSIBLY lying about gun running gone bad. Our politics are arguably more partisan than they were ten or fifteen years ago. "Never" seems like a much more close minded concept than IF in this case. And the proceedings don't have to be successful, just enough pressure to make him resign, like Nixon. It is the act of lying about it that makes this the big deal, not whether or not the policy was worth a crap. One uncovered email is all it takes and the resignation flies well before any impeachment proceedings, IMO. Again, all a bunch of IFs.

Now how do you feel about the concept of Biden taking over if Obama steps aside for any reason?

I like Biden. Great foreign policy guy and a guy for the middle class of this country.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

No, I didn't care 1 bit about a black president. I just feel like that novelty has worn it's welcome and that it was the BIGGEST factor in Obama winning the election. I was pro-McCain because I felt he had a good enough platform and, as a military member myself, liked the idea of having a veteran as my Commander-in-Chief. I felt like he had considerable experience whereas Obama, politically speaking, was still teething. McCain lost my vote when he, in an attempt to gain female votes in order to offset the black vote for Obama, chose Palin as his running mate. I'll end my Palin talk there as it would only lead me down a very long rabbit hole. lol

 

[Bluto]

Obama won because he was black?!? I've heard it all now. That's straight cray! Haha.

Here's a piece on an interesting study by some dude at Harvard.


Study: Racial Bias Cost Obama 3 to 5 Points in 2008 Election - Washington Wire - WSJ

Interesting documentary done by Nanci Pelosi's daughter

Right America Feeling Wronged pt1 - YouTube

 

[BobD]

It's terrible when anyone is murdered.

The drug cartels didn't need the ATF operation to get the guns, they (like Apple Computers) have more cash on hand than the US Govt.

Republicans and Democrats both do stupid stuff, then try to convince us that the other side is stupider.

The people that posted negative comments about political threads on IE I respect very much, but I agree with the guy that said "then don't open that thread".

Having a Friday off is cool.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Obama won because he was black?!? I've heard it all now. That's straight cray! Haha.

Here's a piece on an interesting study by some dude at Harvard.


Study: Racial Bias Cost Obama 3 to 5 Points in 2008 Election - Washington Wire - WSJ

Mr. Stephens-Davidowitz tackled the impact of racial attitudes on voting by using Google searches of “racially charged language.”

If by interesting you meant ridiculous I completely agree.

 

[RDU Irish]

So you hate women?

KIDDING!

I didn't like McCain because he is economically illiterate and oblivious to the fiscal problems facinig this country. As such, I feared he would spend worse than Bush and fix none of our structural problems.

I thought Obama was too dovish but preferred this to an even more hawkish administration. Obama pleasantly surprised me on this front in some respects. I feared Obama was a socialist bent on grossly expanding the size and scope of government which overrode pretty much any concerns I may have about McCain. My vote was much more against Obama than McCain

Dems get 90% of the black vote regardless. That may have pushed some turnout but I think anti-Bush/McCain counted for much more of the margin of victory (which sounds like you may be in that category).

 

[Bluto]

Can everyone please do me a favor and stop referring to the President as a Socialist? The biggest benefactors of his "socialist" policies were those involved in the Wall St. bailout. Ironically enough it could be argued that this socialist program saved "free market capitalism". Anyhow, as someone who subscribes to certain Socialist principals I find it insulting. Thanks. Carry on.

 

[RDU Irish]

It's terrible when anyone is murdered.

The drug cartels didn't need the ATF operation to get the guns, they (like Apple Computers) have more cash on hand than the US Govt.

Republicans and Democrats both do stupid stuff, then try to convince us that the other side is stupider.

The people that posted negative comments about political threads on IE I respect very much, but I agree with the guy that said "then don't open that thread".

Having a Friday off is cool.

I agree very much with your points here. And have not agreed with a lot of your other comments.

I disagree that race hurt Obama. I know plenty of "racists" that voted for Obama. Hard core union democrats mostly. I find both sides have plenty of racists in their extreme elements but that partisanship trancends their racial biases. The black turnout was intense. More importantly, it added to his aura of anti-establishment "change" that he was not a crusty old white dude, which helped rally the youth more than anything.

 

[RDU Irish]

Can everyone please do me a favor and stop referring to the President as a Socialist? The biggest benefactors of his "socialist" policies were those involved in the Wall St. bailout. Ironically enough it could be argued that this socialist program saved "free market capitalism". Anyhow, as someone who subscribes to certain Socialist principals I find it insulting. Thanks. Carry on.

See - even his socialist base is distancing themselves.

I said I feared he was a socialist at the time. How many people see these tendencies now where they were oblivious to them four years ago?

 

[irishpat183]

[/IMG]

 

[Bluto]

See - even his socialist base is distancing themselves.

Bazinga!!! Lol.

 

[irishpat183]

Obama won because he was black?!? I've heard it all now. That's straight cray! Haha.

Here's a piece on an interesting study by some dude at Harvard.


Study: Racial Bias Cost Obama 3 to 5 Points in 2008 Election - Washington Wire - WSJ

Interesting documentary done by Nanci Pelosi's daughter

Right America Feeling Wronged pt1 - YouTube

Yes, Pelosi's daughter and google. Fine sources.

Come on.

Again 95% of the black vote. That is all you need to know. It plays into my point about Rubio. There will be hispanics that will vote for him simply because he's latino. Not to the clip of Obama (it was the FIRST black pres, after all) but he will get those votes. Same with white voters that won't vote for anyone that isn't white.

That's the point I was trying to make. Obama didn't get 95% of the black vote because they agreed with his foreign policy.

 

[irishpat183]

It's terrible when anyone is murdered.

The drug cartels didn't need the ATF operation to get the guns, they (like Apple Computers) have more cash on hand than the US Govt.

Republicans and Democrats both do stupid stuff, then try to convince us that the other side is stupider.

The people that posted negative comments about political threads on IE I respect very much, but I agree with the guy that said "then don't open that thread".

Having a Friday off is cool.

NICE!!!

I'd be hitting golf balls and drinking summer shandy

 

[irishpat183]

No, I didn't care 1 bit about a black president. I just feel like that novelty has worn it's welcome and that it was the BIGGEST factor in Obama winning the election. I was pro-McCain because I felt he had a good enough platform and, as a military member myself, liked the idea of having a veteran as my Commander-in-Chief. I felt like he had considerable experience whereas Obama, politically speaking, was still teething. McCain lost my vote when he, in an attempt to gain female votes in order to offset the black vote for Obama, chose Palin as his running mate. I'll end my Palin talk there as it would only lead me down a very long rabbit hole. lol

When he chose Palin, in her defense Biden is just as dumb, it was over.

She's more eye candy and reality star than someone that I want running the country should the pres go down.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

With all this talk about Obama and blacks... what do y'all think of Allen West? I'll admit I have a fairly limited knowledge of him but I do like much of what I've seen so far. I've spoken with some buddies about him and from what I've seen not many people are on the fence. Now, mind you, most of my friends are democrats so that may play a role in their hatred for him.

 

[In Lou I Trust]

When he chose Palin, in her defense Biden is just as dumb, it was over.

She's more eye candy and reality star than someone that I want running the country should the pres go down.

I agree. I feel that McCain felt almost obligated to choose her in an effort to gain some ground in a presidential race that centered so heavily on minority voters.

 

[Bluto]

Yes, Pelosi's daughter and google. Fine sources.

Come on.

Again 95% of the black vote. That is all you need to know. It plays into my point about Rubio. There will be hispanics that will vote for him simply because he's latino. Not to the clip of Obama (it was the FIRST black pres, after all) but he will get those votes. Same with white voters that won't vote for anyone that isn't white.

That's the point I was trying to make. Obama didn't get 95% of the black vote because they agreed with his foreign policy.

Dude, google was not the source. It was the Wall Street Journal and a study by some guy from Harvard. Anyhow, the animosity directed at this particular President based solely on his ethnicity is pretty telling as well. Something like 1 in 6 Americans still believe he's Muslim. 41% of Republicans think he was born outside the US.

Rubio isn't going to make a difference with the Latino vote overall. Maybe the Cuban vote in Florida. Very different than the Latino populations in the South West, which you're probably aware of.

 

[Bluto]

With all this talk about Obama and blacks... what do y'all think of Allen West? I'll admit I have a fairly limited knowledge of him but I do like much of what I've seen so far. I've spoken with some buddies about him and from what I've seen not many people are on the fence. Now, mind you, most of my friends are democrats so that may play a role in their hatred for him.

That's the guy who thinks the Stasi controls the Democratic Party. Crack Pot. If the GOP nominated a black presidential candidate heads would explode like in that episode of Chappell Show with the black klansman. Haha.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Obama's game plan to win this year.

1. Subtly make issue of race and claim all Republicans are racist
2. Wait for "birthers" to bring up claim of Obama not being born in Hawaii and claim all Republicans are racist and crazy
3. Wait for media to bring up Muslim issue, claim O s a m a Bin L a d e n (can't believe that those two words were banned) victory and of course claim all Republicans are racist.
4. When asked about any policy issues, claim that you find that line of questioning racist.

 

[irishpat183]

^ Doesn't it bother the left AT ALL that the race issue/card is played at nearly every turn?

It's like clock work. I can tell everytime something is said about this president how the media is going spin it towards the race argument.

It's become too easy.

 

[Bluto]

^ Doesn't it bother the left AT ALL that the race issue/card is played at nearly every turn?

It's like clock work. I can tell everytime something is said about this president how the media is going spin it towards the race argument.

It's become too easy.

So on the flipside does it bother conservatives that the GOP consistently puts a black face on societies ills and uses racist imagery? Reagan gave us black welfare queens. Bush 1 Willie Horton. Dan Quayle rap music. The GOP in Orange County publishing photos of the first family as chimps. The Obama playing card portraying him as ape like. Anyhow, there seems to be a GOP racecard as well.. Kind of reaping what they have sown in that regard. For the record I do not believe all Republicans are racist. The party as a whole does however, seem to look the otherway when it comes to a lot of this dispicable stuff.