WEIS on Rome

[bmf175]

To clear the record I was on the fence about the Ty firing. I felt the ND may have jumped the gun just to go after the hot commodity. I remember hearing Theisman on the Dan Patrick Show a day or two after the firing - Theisman was cautioning against Urban and was the first person I heard mention Weis. I found myself agreeing with him.

Now for some clarity on the gimmick. There are only two ways to make a lasting change in football 1. that change must be done in the NFL and work or 2. the change must be adopted by the NFL and work. All of previous innovations - forward pass, screen, motion etc. - were done in the absence of a premier pro league. Now the NFL is king and if it’s not good enough for the king then it dies. The ‘West Coast Offense’ and ‘Zone Blitz’ trickled down from the NFL. If in the coming years an NFL team implements the spread option, I’ll eat the appropriate the amount of crow

But that will never happen. No one in the NFL will even consider the spread option. If a coach did - to quote Jerry Glanville - NFL would stand for ‘Not For Long’ . The QB would get hammered. The team would need to carry six QBs just to complete the season.

How many non military academy D1 schools are running a traditional option? And of that number how many were successful. High school players want to believe that they can make it to the NFL and they know they can’t get there running the option. The option died with Tom Osbourne. And when Alex Smith, Chris Leak and those to follow tank in the NFL because they can’t simultaneously drop back and read a defense the spread option will die.

Very good observation.

The option is a potent SCHEME and can be very effective in high school and college. Defensive ends are to strong and too quick in the NFL for that to work, also with the whole attitude of quater backs being the key to the franchise nobody will risk their QB running the option in the NFL. And instead of playing against a good college team that has one stand out D end in the NFL you really have no "weak" (relatively speaking) side to run to.
There is nothing wrong with nickel and dimeing a team down the field. It keeps their offense off the field and keeps the T.O.P in your teams favor. But when it comes down to running a hurry up offense or no huddle, you have to change your option team into a passing team.
The QB might not be a great drop back passer with the appropriate arm stretch to get the ball to the side lines to stop the clock, that and he will not be as experienced in reading the secondary coverage.

I think that is why a lot of teams moved to more high power throwing offensive schemes which allow you to score quickly. Like the spread offense (purdue) or the shotgun ace formation which Miami is known for. (and even though they are a bunch of crooks (not cooks), they are known for their high powered offenses)

 

[NDLyght37]

Found this on chicagotribune.com. This is why we keep talking about Ty, b/c the media still keeps kissing his 2 months later....

And what was wrong about that article? He had nothing but complimentary things to say about the University and the new regime. I just think there is a section of ND fans who will just go out of their way to villify the guy at any opportunity.

It's like an ex-girlfriend (or Hal Jordan vs. Kyle rayner for the comic geeks)..."Get Over It!". In the end, you only end up becoming bitter. Ty's going to be doing fine, Weis will be doing his nasty thang...and the only one with sour grapes will be "Bitter ND Fan".

What I want to know is, where were all the tears for Ron Zook who didn't even get a full 3 years before he was shown the door?

As for the Zookie Crook, there was an outcry on his side (I was one of those who said the firing was wrong)...but it was drowned out by the multitude of "idjits" who spawned sites like FireRonZook.com. Also, Zook had the misfortune of following a legend...alls TyWillie had to follow was the glorious Bobby-D era.

Out.

 

[Rip Rap]

And what was wrong about that article? He had nothing but complimentary things to say about the University and the new regime. I just think there is a section of ND fans who will just go out of their way to villify the guy at any opportunity.

True, Ty left in a dignified manner and doesn't deserve to be knocked.

But I think the concern is that the article is still bringing up the firing and its supposed unfairness. You begin to wonder if the reporters would have been happier for Ty NOT to get a job, because they sure as hell only talk about Washington reluctantly and seem somewhat miffed that he has yet another 'premier' job in which to sink or swim.

 

[NDLyght37]

True, Ty left in a dignified manner and doesn't deserve to be knocked.

But I think the concern is that the article is still bringing up the firing and its supposed unfairness. You begin to wonder if the reporters would have been happier for Ty NOT to get a job, because they sure as hell only talk about Washington reluctantly and seem somewhat miffed that he has yet another 'premier' job in which to sink or swim.

Valid point. I think that the media wants to run with the story, not TyWillie. But when these articles or commentaries pop up, to some it looks like Willingham is the one that's seeking the attention and bashing ND.

If anyone is the villan, it's the media...not Ty. Like someone already said, he didn't go the Davie route and complain, he owned up to his mistakes and showed class in what had to be a tough situation.

 

[bmf175]

Valid point. I think that the media wants to run with the story, not TyWillie. But when these articles or commentaries pop up, to some it looks like Willingham is the one that's seeking the attention and bashing ND.

If anyone is the villan, it's the media...not Ty. Like someone already said, he didn't go the Davie route and complain, he owned up to his mistakes and showed class in what had to be a tough situation.

Whatever....Ty SUCKS bottom line. lol

 

[irishgo8]

Valid point. I think that the media wants to run with the story, not TyWillie. But when these articles or commentaries pop up, to some it looks like Willingham is the one that's seeking the attention and bashing ND.

If anyone is the villan, it's the media...not Ty. Like someone already said, he didn't go the Davie route and complain, he owned up to his mistakes and showed class in what had to be a tough situation.

Lyght are you going to try to tell your fishy ty stories to every ND fan there is? lol. Ty may not have said anything directly but indirectly he gave plenty of fuel to the fire. And were is Ty's integrity? Coaching at the 2 cleanest programs in the country can get you that reputation although he has had a slightly less graduation percentage (something pro-ty people overlook) and quite a few students on the ND campus are saying the football program wasnt as clean as before.

As for the Zookie Crook, there was an outcry on his side (I was one of those who said the firing was wrong)...but it was drowned out by the multitude of "idjits" who spawned sites like FireRonZook.com. Also, Zook had the misfortune of following a legend...alls TyWillie had to follow was the glorious Bobby-D era..

Lyght FYI there was a FireTyWillie.com. We all know Spurrier left no talent after him that was staying for long and we all also know that zook recruited far better than Willie...In fact alot of ND fans were saying Hire ZOOK!!! And there was minimal crying in Zook's firing - only by a few Florida fans not by the entire media and some people who call themselves fans of blank university.

Why are the pro-ty people whining about ty's firing? Cause we gave him a few million dollars that he didnt have to work for? If we had kept him he would have been out a few million dollars from washington and actually would have had to work for his ND paycheck. Remember Ty is not God.

 

[NDLyght37]

Lyght are you going to try to tell your fishy ty stories to every ND fan there is? lol. Ty may not have said anything directly but indirectly he gave plenty of fuel to the fire.

Fishy Ty stories? I'm just speakin' an opinion, man.
Also, I've told you before man, It's not on Willingham to answer questions about the University past his previous statements. It's fans like you that are apparently waiting for Ty to beg for absolution that are going to be bitter for a long time, bro.

Lyght FYI there was a FireTyWillie.com. We all know Spurrier left no talent after him that was staying for long and we all also know that zook recruited far better than Willie...In fact alot of ND fans were saying Hire ZOOK!!! And there was minimal crying in Zook's firing - only by a few Florida fans not by the entire media and some people who call themselves fans of blank university.

But there was an outcry for Zook, as minimal as you may think it was.

Why are the pro-ty people whining about ty's firing? Cause we gave him a few million dollars that he didnt have to work for? If we had kept him he would have been out a few million dollars from washington and actually would have had to work for his ND paycheck. Remember Ty is not God.

And who said he was, man? All I'm saying is that he's not the Devil either, which apparently a significant segment of iggnorant fans want to portray him as.

 

[Aerosmith777]

And what was wrong about that article? He had nothing but complimentary things to say about the University and the new regime. I just think there is a section of ND fans who will just go out of their way to villify the guy at any opportunity.

It's like an ex-girlfriend (or Hal Jordan vs. Kyle rayner for the comic geeks)..."Get Over It!". In the end, you only end up becoming bitter. Ty's going to be doing fine, Weis will be doing his nasty thang...and the only one with sour grapes will be "Bitter ND Fan".


As for the Zookie Crook, there was an outcry on his side (I was one of those who said the firing was wrong)...but it was drowned out by the multitude of "idjits" who spawned sites like FireRonZook.com. Also, Zook had the misfortune of following a legend...alls TyWillie had to follow was the glorious Bobby-D era.

Out.

Nothing but complimentary things??? Which part of, "If you have had an opportunity to get to know the understated Willingham as I did when I wrote a book ("The Meaning of Victory") about him two years ago, those succinct comments are practically tantamount to ripping Notre Dame for its unprecedented act of terminating a head football coach before his contract had expired." is complimentary??? It seems to slip my grasp, maybe you can fill me in.

And as far as Zook goes, I know you were against his firing, so congratulations Lyght, you're not a hypocrite (not that I ever thought you were), its just the rest of the media IS. That's who I'm bitter toward, the media, not so much Willingham (although the more I've thought about him since his firing the more underhanded I've started to think he really is, and am starting to question his great "integrity" everyone keeps blabbing on about, but that's a discussion for another day....) I watch sportscenter, I never saw any 1/2 hour presentations on the fall of Florida football on there. I never saw Mike Wilbon groaning on PTI about Zook getting the axe (in fact I don't even remember them talking about it) everyday for 3 weeks after his firing.

Anyway, that's my point. If the media would stop kissing his barely about .500 then I'd be fine w/ it all. Its just they keep doing it, mostly I think to make ND look bad, and so long as that's the case I'll keep complaining about it. There were like 5 or 6 coaches this year fired before they'd been at their job 5 years, but no one's following any of them around to their new jobs, or putting a national tear jerker campaign on for them. I just hate all the special attention Willingham's getting 'cause it makes the school look bad for something I think they had every right to do, and were fully justified in.

 

[NDLyght37]

Nothing but complimentary things??? Which part of, "If you have had an opportunity to get to know the understated Willingham as I did when I wrote a book ("The Meaning of Victory") about him two years ago, those succinct comments are practically tantamount to ripping Notre Dame for its unprecedented act of terminating a head football coach before his contract had expired." is complimentary??? It seems to slip my grasp, maybe you can fill me in.

I think you misunderstood me, man. I was reffering to Willingham, not the author.

And as far as Zook goes, I know you were against his firing, so congratulations Lyght, you're not a hypocrite (not that I ever thought you were), its just the rest of the media IS. That's who I'm bitter toward, the media, not so much Willingham (although the more I've thought about him since his firing the more underhanded I've started to think he really is, and am starting to question his great "integrity" everyone keeps blabbing on about, but that's a discussion for another day....) I watch sportscenter, I never saw any 1/2 hour presentations on the fall of Florida football on there. I never saw Mike Wilbon groaning on PTI about Zook getting the axe (in fact I don't even remember them talking about it) everyday for 3 weeks after his firing.

IMO, it's because Florida is not Notre Dame. Oklahoma is not Notre Dame. Not even USC is Notre Dame. As average as we've been...ND will always be the "Yankees" of college football. If similar stories happened to the Braves and the Yankees, Atlanta would be lucky to get a day of coverage. Unfortunately, that's just the way the media works. You lead with the juciest story and you work it until there's no other benefit to gain from covering it. As for Zook on PTI, they spent a day or two on it...but Mike & Tony were killing "FireRonZook".com all year.

Anyway, that's my point. If the media would stop kissing his barely about .500 then I'd be fine w/ it all. Its just they keep doing it, mostly I think to make ND look bad, and so long as that's the case I'll keep complaining about it. There were like 5 or 6 coaches this year fired before they'd been at their job 5 years, but no one's following any of them around to their new jobs, or putting a national tear jerker campaign on for them. I just hate all the special attention Willingham's getting 'cause it makes the school look bad for something I think they had every right to do, and were fully justified in.

I agree...but my point is that Willingham is not the one instigating the coverage; yet he seems to bear the brunt of the hate. And it's also not his obligation to defend the University past the comments he made when he was released. Unlike Davie, he doesn't have an axe to grind...and he doesn't even seem pissed in a situation where anyone else in today's society would rail against their former employer. And while I think the praise for TyWillie is less about him, and more about the media attacking ND; I also think that the continued attacks on Willingham by some people within the ND family is "played out". I'm not talking about having differing opinions, or even saying that he "sucks" (nod to bmf). But people like Sean who spend so much time/energy criticizing the former coach instead of putting that force behind supporting C-Dub and the new regieme.

All I'm saying is that every story has 3 sides, your side, their side...and the truth. And I think it's time we all move on and wish Willingham well (with the exception off September 24th).

 

[Aerosmith777]

While I do understand that Notre Dame is different than everyone else, its doesn't mean I have to be happy about the unfair treatment it gets in the media. I don't know, I guess I won't be happy until ND is winning again and all the media moguls start jumping on the bandwagon. At least then it'll be even w/ the negative and positive coverage. But honestly, it does seem to me that other schools today get undue positive coverage, even when they're not doing that great (especially on ESPN, and ESPECIALLY Miami) while Notre Dame seems to get the other end of the stick every time. I don't know, I guess we'll see once Weis starts winning again.

As far as the contingent of us who seem to have an axe to grind w/ willingham, all I'll say is it kind of hard to seperate the man from the media attention he's gotten. Maybe its not his fault that the media has treated Notre Dame this way, the fact remains that the Wilbons of the world have made it very hard for me to root for him at Washington. Especially when I see the piss poor job he's done there so far, and still read Dennis Dodd saying he's gonna get the Huskies to a Rose Bowl before Weis gets ND to a BCS game. Its kinda like the Yankees. I hate to admit, but I like some of the Yankees as individuals (i.e. Bernie Williams & Joe Torre) but the media coverage they get (along w/ their fans that constantly trash my team...) make it impossible for me to root for them as a group. Same here, I guess I don't mind Willingham that much (although, once again, I really am starting to doubt his great "integrity") but I honestly hope he falls on his face now in Washington, not just on September 24th (but especially then), but on every other Saturday of the year and gets fired within 3 years there too, just so ND fans can stick it to the media that said the university was crazy to fire him.

I don't know, we'll see. Maybe I'll warm up to him again once ND starts winning and (hopefully) the media shuts the hell up about the Irish being wrong to fire him. Its just these articles like the one I posted get me fired up b/c I love ND football and ND and hate seeing people rip them apart just b/c they're Notre Dame.

 

[NDLyght37]

No doubt man...I am almost in agreement with you, but I just think that most people got played by the media (on all sides). I'm probably more patient because I know how shady we can be. When I worked as a production assistant for our ABC affiliate over here, we spent so much time & effort doing exclusives and exposes about people. One we did was about a high school track coach that was supposedly having relations with his athletes. The only "evidence" was the testimony of one of the girls. We crucified this guy for months, and because we (and the other two local channels) led the charge, there was so much drama between the coaches supporters, and the people that believed the student's story. Long-story-short, the guy was innocent, but he took such a beating in the court of public opinion that he was useless as a teacher or as a coach.

All I'm saying is that ESPN, NBC, etc. loves this. They like that a portion of ND fans bombard them with complaints when they air a pro-Willingham story (just listen to guys like Colin Cowherd, he loves to bait ND fans). And when the media does that, they start a cycle that ultimately only benefits them. The University's been tarnished, Ty's in the opening stages of being tarnished...and the media smiles all the way to the bank.

I lost my train of thought...damn sickness.

But I think I made my point, I hope.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Lol, fair enough. I agree w/ just about all of that (although I miss the part where Ty's in the opening stages of being tarnished, but I'll defer to your authority on that one & keep an eye out for negative attention thrown his way). I guess this'll all get easier once August rolls around. W/ football over and no hockey, I have little to do other than read everything I can find that in any way pertains to Notre Dame. I miss hockey....

 

[NDLyght37]

Lol, fair enough. I agree w/ just about all of that (although I miss the part where Ty's in the opening stages of being tarnished, but I'll defer to your authority on that one & keep an eye out for negative attention thrown his way). I guess this'll all get easier once August rolls around. W/ football over and no hockey, I have little to do other than read everything I can find that in any way pertains to Notre Dame. I miss hockey....

(Good ol' Robitussin)

Anyways, I just think that most of the media were to quick to build him up. I mean I'm the biggest Willingham fan in my area...but I'm not blind to the guy's flaws. But I think that it's kind of the nature of the beast. You build a guy up, then you try to tear him down. Then you get the big redemption story if he's able to come back...and if he doesn't, at least you can do a "where are they now?" story. And it's really a big story if the guy was supposedly "squeaky clean" coming in. I've only seen a few examples that make me feel that was, so I have no proof...but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for hockey, I was really into the NHL about 3 years ago (around when Jagr came to Washington)...but something happened to just drain my interest. At least we still have the Admirals around here.