Tim Brown really cashing in (literally)

[NDgettysburg]

I'd like to get him to sign the football my sons & I have been collecting autographs on but I'm not paying $50. I guess this is what you have to do to combat those who do this for profit and sell on places like ebay, but it hurts ND fans who just do it as a hobby.

College Football Hall of Fame
Friday, November 17, 2006
2:00 – 4:00 p.m. - Autograph Session with Heisman Trophy winner, Tim Brown. $50/person. Located in the Hall of Fame Gift Shop.

 

[Clotho]

When they stop charging for food, clothing, and housing, people will stop trying to make money however they can.

So, until we're in a socialist state, expect celebrities to charge for autographs.

 

[NDgettysburg]

When they stop charging for food, clothing, and housing, people will stop trying to make money however they can.

So, until we're in a socialist state, expect celebrities to charge for autographs.

BS...his would be the first on the ball I'd have had to pay for.

We have the most recently retired President of the University on the ball...not a cent. Pinkett, Mayes, Rice, Edwards, Aaron Taylor, Kiel, Reggie Brooks....not a cent for any of them.

True that none of them won the Heisman or will most likely end up in the NFL HoF but I don't expect he'll be in the JACC before the Army game signing autographs like the rest of these former players have. Too bad too, he's one my all time favorites.

 

[Freeman Ara]

I know the feeling, I was turned down at a Cincinnati Reds game a few years back because the brand of baseball card I was trying to get signed wasn't the one that the player was contractually obligated to endorse, wasn't aware at the time but these guys have those types of deals. However, depending on what other names you have on the football it might be worth the 50 buck investment if its going to increase the value of the ball as a long term investment for your kids. And as you said its just away for him to protect his name against for profit autograph hawks.

 

[NDgettysburg]

However, depending on what other names you have on the football it might be worth the 50 buck investment if its going to increase the value of the ball as a long term investment for your kids.

That's the thing...it's not in any way an "investment." In fact, I expect that sometime in the future the 2 boys will fight over who it belongs to and I would not be surprised if it became something that was handed down from father to son. These two are well aware of ebay as we've bought signed cards and such from there (not many and not expensive as I don't really trust that they're genuine most of the time) but they've never mentioned anything about how much we/they could sell the ball for. It's something they look forward to taking along on trips to ND for more autographs. They like the collecting and getting to meet the former players.

 

[Freeman Ara]

That's the thing...it's not in any way an "investment." In fact, I expect that sometime in the future the 2 boys will fight over who it belongs to and I would not be surprised if it became something that was handed down from father to son. These two are well aware of ebay as we've bought signed cards and such from there (not many and not expensive as I don't really trust that they're genuine most of the time) but they've never mentioned anything about how much we/they could sell the ball for. It's something they look forward to taking along on trips to ND for more autographs. They like the collecting and getting to meet the former players.

Yeah I understand where your coming from as far as it not being an investment but sometimes you never know in a hundred years when your great grandsons have it could be a valuable commodity. The again maybe the 50 bucks is worth getting one of your favorite players to sign the ball. It sucks to be in that dilemma, but sometimes you just have to decide whether the price you pay is worth the reward you get out of it.

 

[Clotho]

BS...his would be the first on the ball I'd have had to pay for.

We have the most recently retired President of the University on the ball...not a cent. Pinkett, Mayes, Rice, Edwards, Aaron Taylor, Kiel, Reggie Brooks....not a cent for any of them.

True that none of them won the Heisman or will most likely end up in the NFL HoF but I don't expect he'll be in the JACC before the Army game signing autographs like the rest of these former players have. Too bad too, he's one my all time favorites.

That's their choice. By his effort, in the past in becoming who he is, and in the present by appearing and signing, he gives that ball added value. It's not unreasonable to expect someone who gives something added value by his effort to want to be compensated for it.

Your beef on this one is with the society/economic system you live in, not with Timmy Brown (or with Joe Montana when he reportedly wanted money to appear at a halftime program at the Super Bowl). This is part of the payoff for all of their hardwork. Those other guys you named were being unusually generous in not charging money for something that is worth money.

Ideally all the sicko memorabilia collectors would just jump in a lake and die, and take the value away. But that isn't gonna happen.

But yea I know if my autograph were worth money, I'd charge for it. Nobody's giving me free food, clothing, or housing. I have to pay for stuff. If I have something of value to give in order to get money to live on, whether I'm poor or rich otherwise, it's my right (and duty, considering the system) to make money off of it.

 

[Vince Young]

BS...his would be the first on the ball I'd have had to pay for.

We have the most recently retired President of the University on the ball...not a cent. Pinkett, Mayes, Rice, Edwards, Aaron Taylor, Kiel, Reggie Brooks....not a cent for any of them.

So, because they were generous enough to give something away for free that they could've easily charged for, that means everyone else is obligated to make the same choice?

Sorry, but Tim Brown is under no moral or legal obligation to sign your football, either for free or at a price. The decisions of whether or not to autograph footballs and the conditions under which he will do so are entirely his choice. It then becomes your choice whether or not to accept the conditions he has chosen. Accept them, and you get an autographed football; don't accept them, and you don't get an autographed football.

There's no issue of right or wrong here. He's made his choice, and now you've made yours. God bless you both.

Now, would it be NICE if he gave you a free autograph? Sure. But he's under no obligation to be nice.

 

[BGIF]

That's their choice. By his effort, in the past in becoming who he is, and in the present by appearing and signing, he gives that ball added value. It's not unreasonable to expect someone who gives something added value by his effort to want to be compensated for it.

Your beef on this one is with the society/economic system you live in, not with Timmy Brown (or with Joe Montana when he reportedly wanted money to appear at a halftime program at the Super Bowl). This is part of the payoff for all of their hardwork. Those other guys you named were being unusually generous in not charging money for something that is worth money.

Ideally all the sicko memorabilia collectors would just jump in a lake and die, and take the value away. But that isn't gonna happen.

But yea I know if my autograph were worth money, I'd charge for it. Nobody's giving me free food, clothing, or housing. I have to pay for stuff. If I have something of value to give in order to get money to live on, whether I'm poor or rich otherwise, it's my right (and duty, considering the system) to make money off of it.

Originally Posted by NDgettysburg
BS...

Eloquently phrased, gettysburg!

 

[Clotho]

That's fine. Take it up with capitalist philosophy, not with me. Personally, I think capitalism is evil. But while it's in play, them's the breaks. If Tim Brown goes broke and is living on the streets in ten years, will all the little (and big) ND fans now asking for his autograph take him in, clothe him, feed him, help him get a job?

This isn't that sort of society. He's got something of value. He's right to charge for it. Is Lou Holtz a bad guy for charging all that money for speaking engagements? (Lou Holtz is perhaps a bad guy for reasons entirely unrelated to that, but that's neither here nor there.)

As it is, this is a lot like the Bielema situation with the kickoff trick. He was conforming, sensibly, to the system in which he found himself. He was taking advantage of it and doing what it allowed him to do to take care of himself and his team. Was it sportsmanlike? Nope. Neither is Timmy Brown charging cash for his autograph sportsmanlike, or nice. But the fault is with the system, not with the person who (legally) exploits it to his advantage.

 

[NDgettysburg]

So, because they were generous enough to give something away for free that they could've easily charged for, that means everyone else is obligated to make the same choice?

I said that? I only pointed out examples of former players who signed for fans because they appreciated fans wanting their autograph. And of the ones I named, I don't think a single one of them were the sign and move on type. All of them were happy to talk ND football with you. Some, like Pinkett, seemed like he wouldn't mind talking with you for an hour even though there was a big line behind us.

Sorry, but Tim Brown is under no moral or legal obligation to sign your football, either for free or at a price.

I don't recall saying that, either.

The decisions of whether or not to autograph footballs and the conditions under which he will do so are entirely his choice. It then becomes your choice whether or not to accept the conditions he has chosen.

Yup....

There's no issue of right or wrong here. He's made his choice, and now you've made yours.

I understand but it doesn't mean I'm not gonna bitch about it

That's fine. Take it up with capitalist philosophy, not with me.

Dang, I didn't realize I was making you responsible for addressing my complaint.

Personally, I think capitalism is evil. But while it's in play, them's the breaks.

I'm not completely against paying for an autograph, I just think $50 is excessive. If it was half, I think I would probably pay that. I did pay for Hornung's autograph about 10 years ago but it wasn't $50, more like $15. What burns me more is the price dependent upon the item. WTF difference does it make if it's a "flat" or a "ball"? You're still signing your name.

If Tim Brown goes broke and is living on the streets in ten years, will all the little (and big) ND fans now asking for his autograph take him in, clothe him, feed him, help him get a job?

If Timmy goes broke after all the millions he's made? Well, I think ND people would be more than happy to do what they could for the guy....including getting him a job so he could get back on his feet.

 

[NDgettysburg]

It's not unreasonable to expect someone who gives something added value by his effort to want to be compensated for it.

The "value" added for us is not monetary but I guess that's the problem right there....everyone who would like an autograph these days is looked on as a businessman wanting to cash in. Screws the fans good.

Those other guys you named were being unusually generous in not charging money for something that is worth money.

No question...I guess it was unrealistic to hope TB would be the same.